Wrexham? I hardly know him.

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,400
Falmouth
I laughed.

Also, not for nothing but I’ve loudly argued we should go back to just being called The Wednesday. No offense to Sheffield
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
I laughed.

Also, not for nothing but I’ve loudly argued we should go back to just being called The Wednesday. No offense to Sheffield
I think I've probably had to look up why they are called Wednesday about a dozen times, which I did again today. Every time I do that, I remember, "oh, yeah, I did that before." I'll forget in a week or so, and then I'll look it up again in, like, March 2025, and then I'll remember, oh, yeah, that's why, and I've looked that up before.

I mean, generally I remember that there was something special about Wednesdays for the old fuckers who played sports in suits and hats with bad equipment back when England was still smarting from losing a war to the Americans (again), but I forget the details.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
10,555
I think I've probably had to look up why they are called Wednesday about a dozen times, which I did again today. Every time I do that, I remember, "oh, yeah, I did that before." I'll forget in a week or so, and then I'll look it up again in, like, March 2025, and then I'll remember, oh, yeah, that's why, and I've looked that up before.

I mean, generally I remember that there was something special about Wednesdays for the old fuckers who played sports in suits and hats with bad equipment back when England was still smarting from losing a war to the Americans (again), but I forget the details.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1RW1Fghf8yA
 

thehitcat

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 25, 2003
2,396
Windham, ME
My next Football manager save I'm taking over Altrincham, renaming them Manchester Tuesday and will try to pull them out of mid-table National League obscurity and into the Football League where I can attempt to dethrone the "other" Manchester squads whoever they are.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,566
You all know there’s a club called FC United of Manchester, right?
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
52,384
Was disappointed to learn that Boston United, ostensibly my home club (go Pilgrims!), is currently struggling near the bottom of tier 6 in its 90th year.

My 10th great-grandfather, very nearly a pilgrim himself, weeps from the grave.
 

tmracht

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
3,203
Just finished Welcome to Wrexham on Hulu, that wasn't bad at all. I'm glad Grimsby won, not cause I'd like to see the Welsh supporters suffer, but it's nice to see it wasn't just buy and win the league/promotion in year one (rich coming from a Chelsea fan I know, but I also am not of the type to love when Boehly comes in an makes Roman look normal).
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
5,993
Was disappointed to learn that Boston United, ostensibly my home club (go Pilgrims!), is currently struggling near the bottom of tier 6 in its 90th year.

My 10th great-grandfather, very nearly a pilgrim himself, weeps from the grave.
That's my "bottom to top" club of choice in Football Manager when I decide to do that save. I can get them to the Championship, but haven't made it to the EPL yet.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
The National League only having one automatic promotion spot is creating some extraordinary tension at the top of the table. Two extraordinary teams, one of which is going to get a playoff. The one game they play against each other toward the end of the year could be the difference.

Seeing the way Wrexham lost last year kind of makes you wonder just a bit whether they are going to be a famous snakebit side, with very famous owners. Two losses on the campaign and nowhere near safe for promotion.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
The National League only having one automatic promotion spot is creating some extraordinary tension at the top of the table. Two extraordinary teams, one of which is going to get a playoff. The one game they play against each other toward the end of the year could be the difference.

Seeing the way Wrexham lost last year kind of makes you wonder just a bit whether they are going to be a famous snakebit side, with very famous owners. Two losses on the campaign and nowhere near safe for promotion.
That Notts County/Wrexham match is going to be bonkers.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
15,782
California. Duh.
Wrexham just lost 3-1 to Halifax, which leaves them tied with Notts County at the top of the league with 97 points (3rd place has 75). Notts County has a 1 goal lead in GD, Wrexham has a game in hand (they have 6 games remaining while Notts County have 5). Monday the two teams play at the Racecourse Ground, the atmosphere at that one will be insane.

It's brutal that only 1 of these teams will go up automatically, the 2nd will have to navigate a 6 team playoff to get to League Two.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,985
The 718
Wrexham just lost 3-1 to Halifax, which leaves them tied with Notts County at the top of the league with 97 points (3rd place has 75). Notts County has a 1 goal lead in GD, Wrexham has a game in hand (they have 6 games remaining while Notts County have 5). Monday the two teams play at the Racecourse Ground, the atmosphere at that one will be insane.

It's brutal that only 1 of these teams will go up automatically, the 2nd will have to navigate a 6 team playoff to get to League Two.
That is harsh. There should be more spots. I understand that means more sides going down from League Two and out of the EFL which is a potential death blow.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
15,782
California. Duh.
That is harsh. There should be more spots. I understand that means more sides going down from League Two and out of the EFL which is a potential death blow.
The National League is really harsh, 2 go up (only the champion and the playoff winner) but 4 go down. The next level down is when regional leagues start.

Turns out I was looking at the table before it updated, both Notts County and Wrexham are at 100 points (Notts County leads GD by 3), and NC has 4 games left while Wrexham has 5.

Just a reminder, Notts County is the oldest professional football club in the world (Juventus adopted their black and white striped kits from them) while Wrexham is the 3rd oldest, so this is a pretty legendary title race.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
Yep -- someone may go down with 110 points.

Today's loss was brutal for Wrexham. Anything can happen, but it essentially makes Monday's game pretty close to a playoff. Wrexham needs at least a point. If Notts County win, they are in the driver's seat, because they almost certainly will have goal difference locked up.

I posted this a few months ago, but I sort of have a feeling that Wrexham is completely set up to be tragic losers. I mean, there's no script in sports, but after watching how they went out last year and seeing them give up these late goals and stuff, it just feels like they are very possibly lovable losers with very famous owners. I could see them getting nipped for the auto spot and then losing in the playoffs in a really excruciating fashion.

They lost to a terrible team today. That was as bad a loss as you can imagine. I think Notts County is going to beat them.
 
Last edited:

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,429
South of North
Yep -- someone may go down with 110 points.

Today's loss was brutal for Wrexham. Anything can happen, but it essentially makes Monday's game pretty close to a playoff. Wrexham needs at least a point. If Notts County win, they are in the driver's seat, because they almost certainly will have goal difference locked up.

I posted this a few months ago, but I sort of have a feeling that Wrexham is completely set up to be tragic losers. I mean, there's no script in sports, but after watching how they went out last year and seeing them give up these late goals and stuff, it just feels like they are very possibly lovable losers with very famous owners. I could see them getting nipped for the auto spot and then losing in the playoffs in a really excruciating fashion.

They lost to a terrible team today. That was as bad a loss as you can imagine. I think Notts County is going to beat them.
I don't think either club is going down--rather the club that finishes second may not make it through 2 one-match ties. I need to set a reminder for the Monday match! I'm sure it's going to break National League viewership records.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
I don't think either club is going down--rather the club that finishes second may not make it through 2 one-match ties. I need to set a reminder for the Monday match! I'm sure it's going to break National League viewership records.
Right, yeah, no lower to go.

Second place is totally going to lose in the playoffs.
 

CouchsideSteve

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2013
442
Norwalk, CT
That was one of the best soccer games — purely from an entertainment perspective — that I’ve ever watched. Well worth the £9.99 I paid for what was a surprisingly good streaming experience.

Fending off a PK as time nearly expires felt like it was scripted — almost too on the nose.
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
15,782
California. Duh.
Ben Foster saved a stoppage time penalty to preserve the win.

Yes, THAT Ben Foster. He came out of retirement to join Wrexham for the stretch drive after they had an injury crisis.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
I can't decide if I'm rooting for or against Wrexham. The show really made me like some of the residents, but of course I'm sure if they made Welcome to Notts County there would be equally compelling stories there.

But however that might play out, that was one of the most compelling halves of football that you'll ever see at any level.

I really hope they both go up.
 

the1andonly3003

New Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,679
3/4 Chicago, 1/4 Boston
Ben Foster saved a stoppage time penalty to preserve the win.

Yes, THAT Ben Foster. He came out of retirement to join Wrexham for the stretch drive after they had an injury crisis.
Came here to comment on this. Seems a bit unfair. Foster was a borderline starter at the top division. It'd be like Messi coming out of retirement to help a bottom a pyramid team promote
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,303
Pittsburgh, PA
390 Premier League appearances, the last of which was last spring for Watford. 8 appearances for England, the last in 2014.

Foster lives just south of Birmingham, so a bit under a 2 hour drive to Wrexham. Has an active Youtube channel with 1.2M subscribers and a podcast - I guess the social media hype on Wrexham must have swayed him.

Whatever, good for him and good for Wrexham. More teams like that should make a habit of calling for help to somewhat-nearby semi-retired elite players, even if they can't pay top-flight wages - I feel like everyone gets something out of the arrangement.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
Came here to comment on this. Seems a bit unfair. Foster was a borderline starter at the top division. It'd be like Messi coming out of retirement to help a bottom a pyramid team promote
I can understand that it might seem a bit unfair. The system assumes that most players who are in form to play will demand that they make what they are worth. Players who are out of contract and willing to play significantly under market can defeat that expectation but I'm not really sure that's a problem.

If a team can attract a player, fair play to them. Whether it's with money, with the chance to play for their home town club, or because they think they will get social media clicks. Everyone else in the world could have sought and wooed Ben Foster. He went to the place that offered him the most. It is just that in this case the most was not dollars.
 

tmracht

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
3,203
Good article on The Athletic if you hadn't seen on the signing. https://theathletic.com/4340680/2023/03/24/ben-foster-wrexham-ryan-reynolds-rob-mcelhenney/

Funny Nugget:

"After the US takeover in 2021, Foster had dropped Reynolds a message himself asking if he would one day come on his podcast. It got no response. The actor apologised for not replying until this week but the pair will now meet face-to-face, and yes, that podcast appearance is finally on the cards."
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,429
South of North
Good article on The Athletic if you hadn't seen on the signing. https://theathletic.com/4340680/2023/03/24/ben-foster-wrexham-ryan-reynolds-rob-mcelhenney/

Funny Nugget:

"After the US takeover in 2021, Foster had dropped Reynolds a message himself asking if he would one day come on his podcast. It got no response. The actor apologised for not replying until this week but the pair will now meet face-to-face, and yes, that podcast appearance is finally on the cards."
Did the article say whether Foster bothered to ask Rob?? I love that dynamic on the show, as it's certainly true--everyone loves and adores Reynolds (myself included), and Rob is certainly...there. lol.

I'm definitely rooting for promotion for Wrexham. I want to see how far up they can make it. I have an old grade school friend with a very wealthy family that bought into the pyramid waaaay before it was cool (like ~15 years ago). I don't remember which club (Blackpool? I feel like there was a 'pool' in the name).
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,400
Falmouth
I can't decide if I'm rooting for or against Wrexham. The show really made me like some of the residents, but of course I'm sure if they made Welcome to Notts County there would be equally compelling stories there.

But however that might play out, that was one of the most compelling halves of football that you'll ever see at any level.

I really hope they both go up.
I'm rooting for them in the broader sense that well-run clubs moving up the pyramid is a great story. I don't love the 'buying their way up' aspect of it, but I suppose that's largely modern football. A few more years of struggle might do the ownership group good (it's not supposed to be easy), but in the end it's a good tale. I won't root against them (until they start passing Wednesday in the pyramid :mad: )
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,918
Lunenburg, MA
With the win yesterday they are 3 points clear of Notts Co., with 4 games remaining (3 for Notts) and control their promotion destiny. Pick up 7 points in the final three games and Notts can win out without catching them. Given the season they both clubs have had I'd expect boh to win out, which looks like clinching would happen at the Racecourse on the 22nd.

Should be interesting to see how the club fares when moving up a level. They certainly were competitive in the FA cup the past two seasons. With more resources available via promotion, I'd expect them to spend on more depth to keep climbing. That's not taking into account the refurb they are currently doing to the Racecourse that will increase revenue further.

One of the big takeaways over the past year for me is if you see Reynolds put money into something, get on board quick.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
With the win yesterday they are 3 points clear of Notts Co., with 4 games remaining (3 for Notts) and control their promotion destiny. Pick up 7 points in the final three games and Notts can win out without catching them. Given the season they both clubs have had I'd expect boh to win out, which looks like clinching would happen at the Racecourse on the 22nd.

Should be interesting to see how the club fares when moving up a level. They certainly were competitive in the FA cup the past two seasons. With more resources available via promotion, I'd expect them to spend on more depth to keep climbing. That's not taking into account the refurb they are currently doing to the Racecourse that will increase revenue further.

One of the big takeaways over the past year for me is if you see Reynolds put money into something, get on board quick.
Yeah, it feels "done and dusted," as they say. It would be a real surprise given the competition if Wrexham could not manage 7 points in four games. That said, there is a bit of a Hollywood script element to this team and I can't say I would be completely shocked by a let down this weekend. It's one of those U.S.A. v. Finland gold medal game type moments where you can definitely come out flat.
 

saintnick912

GINO!
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 30, 2004
5,037
Somerville, MA
Casual "watched the FX show but don't know the particulars of these levels" questions?

How big is the jump from National League to League Two? What proportion of the squad would stay or go typically, with the caveat I know they have some guys with higher division track records. What extra revenue and expenses get opened up at that level? Is it likely to make money for Reynolds or become even more of a boondoggle?

Genuinely curious as it's not something I've ever given much thought to. Found some numbers on the different EFL levels but not on jumping non-League to League.
 

shaggydog2000

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2007
11,974
I'm rooting for them in the broader sense that well-run clubs moving up the pyramid is a great story. I don't love the 'buying their way up' aspect of it, but I suppose that's largely modern football. A few more years of struggle might do the ownership group good (it's not supposed to be easy), but in the end it's a good tale. I won't root against them (until they start passing Wednesday in the pyramid :mad: )
But football isn't a draft and development sport. Spending like you're already a league higher is how just about every team gains lasting promotion, isn't it? It's the teams that spend like that for a while and don't move up that end up in trouble.
 

tmracht

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
3,203
Casual "watched the FX show but don't know the particulars of these levels" questions?

How big is the jump from National League to League Two? What proportion of the squad would stay or go typically, with the caveat I know they have some guys with higher division track records. What extra revenue and expenses get opened up at that level? Is it likely to make money for Reynolds or become even more of a boondoggle?

Genuinely curious as it's not something I've ever given much thought to. Found some numbers on the different EFL levels but not on jumping non-League to League.
National League to League Two is a weird one, there is every chance Wrexham is a promotion favorite if they promote. With only two dropping a lot of the churn at the bottom isn't seen in League two like it might in Champ and League One. The revenue streams increased by about 1 million pounds alone from the EFL payment and the Prem solidarity payment, plus increase in revenue from TV. It's hard to quantify completely but the financial side is huge along with being able to sign foreign players, opens up some cheaper options eventually. They'll still probably lose on the club itself, but they'll likely continue to make more on other avenues. The boondoggle won't likely come until much higher up the pyramid, if they can get that sweet Prem parachute payment etc.

As for who stays, there's a good chance most of the names you know stay, they are all at L2 or L1 quality. I think the interesting one will be Foster if he's runs it back or not. I'd say likely not, but who knows.
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,918
Lunenburg, MA
Yeah, it feels "done and dusted," as they say. It would be a real surprise given the competition if Wrexham could not manage 7 points in four games. That said, there is a bit of a Hollywood script element to this team and I can't say I would be completely shocked by a let down this weekend. It's one of those U.S.A. v. Finland gold medal game type moments where you can definitely come out flat.
Nothing is done, right? But this feels done. Perfect setup for a HUGE letdown. Either way, with the cameras rolling this is going to be compelling television to watch - maybe moreso if they somehow falter now.

USA/Finland is a great pull, and don't know if Parkinson has enough Herb Brooks in him to go all "If you lose this game, you'll take it to your fucking graves. Your fucking graves." if things go sideways.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
43,975
AZ
Casual "watched the FX show but don't know the particulars of these levels" questions?

How big is the jump from National League to League Two? What proportion of the squad would stay or go typically, with the caveat I know they have some guys with higher division track records. What extra revenue and expenses get opened up at that level? Is it likely to make money for Reynolds or become even more of a boondoggle?

Genuinely curious as it's not something I've ever given much thought to. Found some numbers on the different EFL levels but not on jumping non-League to League.
I don't know the exact figures but I don't think it's a very big jump in salaries to League Two. I wouldn't be surprised if Wrexham's payroll is already a League Two payroll essentially.

The question for the owners is what is their goal next year. They should not have much trouble fielding a team that can get good fan support and continue to build momentum, without much chance of relegation, if they make modest improvements.

If on the other hand they are wanting to try to build a team that can make a jump to League One and stay there, they are probably going to have to open their wallets. The higher spending Clubs in League One have payrolls that are 3x what Wrexham is spending right now. Sheffield Wednesday is probably over 10,000,000 pounds by a decent margin.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
23,303
Pittsburgh, PA
As best I could determine when I looked into it a year or so ago:

National League teams are semi-pro, which means some players (The better ones) get paid, up to maybe like £ 500-800 a game, but it's not year-round and not guaranteed, and plenty of players on any given team get paid nothing other than expenses. Once you get below National League (tier 5), it's rare for anyone to get paid in NL North or NL South (tier 6), although some of the bigger clubs there like Kidderminster Harriers (stadium capacity: 7000, had a good run in the FA Cup) probably do pay some players.

League Two is fully professional. The players don't make a lot, but everyone on the roster does get paid to train and compete year-round. Median salary there is apparently like £ 70-80k, with the top earners getting considerably more (sources are all sketchy and vary a lot). Median team payroll is about £ 2.5M / yr this year (up dramatically from about £ 1.6M last year!), so with a maximum roster size of 22 that implies about £ 110k average salary at the median team, though of course median salary will be well below that.

At League One it's seemingly more like £ 90-130k / year median. Median payroll is about £ 3.5M / yr (though Sheffield Wednesday is triple that), implying an average salary at the median club of £ 160k.

That doesn't buy you a ton of footballing talent, but anyone laboring in the National League with dreams of being a true professional footballer would jump at an offer from any EFL club I'd think, even if below-median in League Two. So while some of Wrexham's roster might be League Two level talent that was under-rated, I would expect they'd need a lot of upgrades to be equivalently competitive next year.
 

tmracht

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 19, 2009
3,203
Think you're overselling league 2 a bit from a competition perspective. Stockport who were about on par with Wrexham last season are sitting in 3rd the first year up. Grimsby who snuck promotion are comfortably midtable. I think Wrexham and Notts both sit near promotion next season if they keep their dangermen.
 

Titans Bastard

has sunil gulati in his sights
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2002
14,566
My understanding of the non-League divisions is a bit different. Maybe things have changed, but I think the National League is a mixture of full time professional and semi-pro clubs. Clubs going fully pro below the National League is rare, but has happened before. Semi-pro clubs extend pretty far down the pyramid (possibly even to the 10th division or so) but in the lower reaches of that you might be talking about pocket money, like $20 a game or so.

Here's an anecdote from somebody involved in a 9th tier (=Step 5) club

I have been involved in clubs who have distributed money towards players in a variety of different ways. The most successful at step 5? Win bonuses and equal payments for all players involved. Every starting player got £20. Everyone off the bench £10. £5 win bonus. £5 goal/clean sheet bonus. We came 3rd and won a cup final. The least successful? One player receiving a substantial payment, whilst the rest weren’t on anything. He ended up leaving to go to a higher level for more money because we spent all our money on him. To hear some 3 figure sums being dished out at step 5 is absolutely crazy! How can clubs expect to make a profit when they’re handing out a weekly budget of £500+ and only getting 40 people through the door every other week?
 

Royal Reader

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2005
2,344
UK
I can't decide if I'm rooting for or against Wrexham. The show really made me like some of the residents, but of course I'm sure if they made Welcome to Notts County there would be equally compelling stories there.

But however that might play out, that was one of the most compelling halves of football that you'll ever see at any level.

I really hope they both go up.
I'm fairly comfortably rooting against them. Not that I hate them. It's just natural to root against anyone trying to buy the league. Wrexham are strongly preferable to the Salford Cities of this world, but I still feel like I'd rather it took as long as possible for the project to work (given that it seems it inevitably will at some point).
 

Huntington Avenue Grounds

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2008
1,918
Lunenburg, MA
I'm fairly comfortably rooting against them. Not that I hate them. It's just natural to root against anyone trying to buy the league. Wrexham are strongly preferable to the Salford Cities of this world, but I still feel like I'd rather it took as long as possible for the project to work (given that it seems it inevitably will at some point).
Being a dilettante to promotion/relegation and European club ownership, what would the "traditional" path be here? Seems things have changed over the past ~20 years where rich owners buy in and pour resources into the club to push them to the top of the table. Guessing that creating an academy would be that path, which would take less money (though can't imagine it is inexpensive) but more time.