Winning At Home is Possible on May 19, 2023

CoffeeNerdness

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Grant poked the bear. Turns out the bear had already eaten 90 lbs of Columbian puro and did everything to kill this franchise's hopes and dreams short of pulling Lucky's still beating heart out of his chest at half court and sharing it with Kevin Harlan after the final buzzer.
 

tbb345

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The Grant stuff is irrelevant. Does anyone actually think they weren’t going to turtle on both ends down the stretch either way?
I don’t think it changes anything but it’s also par for the course for this group of players to fuck up by any means necessary. Grant shouldn’t be shit talking anyone.
JT was playing hurt and had a poor finals. It happens. JB played like a zombie tonight. It was if he was not there. I'm not passing judgment on JBs character, just that he sucked tonight and was a big reason for the loss.

As I do not understand your point, ymm or mnv.
My point is that Brown was just as hurt as Tatum was. In fact, we actually saw Brown get hurt last game.
Reggie Mill is a fucking doofus but he mentioned that brown might be hurt multiple times during the broadcast.
There were basically no posts in this thread mentioning Brown possibly being injured. If the same exact thing happened with Tatum, this thread is fucking littered with “yeah, Tatum has sucked but his forearm is seriously hurt! It’s a credit to him he’s out there!”
 

CoffeeNerdness

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That butler presser was impressive. He’s a total pro. He’s exactly what we lack, frankly
They show game clips and post game stuff during the League Pass commercials. One clip tonight was Jimmy after losing last year- "We'll be back in the same spot next year and this time we'll finish the job."
 

tbb345

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If the Heat win this series, Brad needs to seriously look at Mazzulla as a coach
 

bankshot1

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That’s my frustration

why extend him before the playoffs then?
Imo the FO and ownership put too much stock in the Celts fast start and Iirc the Celts had the best record in the NBA, CJM was going to be the HC at the AS game and it seemed like it was appropriate gesture to lift the interim tag.

I had reservations about interim CJM but thought it was an OK move as he would continue to grow.
Unfortunately I'm not sure he grew enough to coach a title contender.
 

Cellar-Door

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Heat's rotation players (6-8) outscored Boston's 42-33. Agree that Boston's starters sucked as well.
Heat Bench scored 42 points on 33 shots (on off by player as +1, +8, -7, -21)
Celtics Bench scored 33 points on 12 shots (on/off by player was -6, +10, +8)
 

mikeford

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This is who this core is. It's been the exact same failings for like 5 straight years. The guys around the core don't matter: Smart, Tatum and Brown doesn't work and will never work.
 

tbb345

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The Grant stuff is irrelevant. Does anyone actually think they weren’t going to turtle on both ends down the stretch either way?
It’s just fucking stupid. Who knows if it actually matters but it’s way behind the point of Grant just shutting the fuck up. I though Donovan Mitchell turning him into a puddle would curb Grants talking but apparently I expected way too much from him
 

Cellar-Door

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Imo the FO and ownership put too much stock in the Celts fast start and Iirc the Celts had the best record in the NBA, CJM was going to be the HC at the AS game and it seemed like it was appropriate gesture to lift the interim tag.

I had reservations about interim CJM but thought it was an OK move as he would continue to grow.
Unfortunately I'm not sure he grew enough to coach a title contender.
They had a great regular season, got the 2 seed but had the best underlying numbers in the league by a good bit. Mazzulla is having some learning pains as a rookie in the playoffs... it is what it is, but overall he did a good job this year in an incredibly tough spot. He probably shouldn't be fired unless Tatum asks for it, I don't think there is anyone available who is a clear upgrade, all the vets have their own flaws, without the excuse of inexperience.
 

bankshot1

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I don’t think it changes anything but it’s also par for the course for this group of players to fuck up by any means necessary. Grant shouldn’t be shit talking anyone.


My point is that Brown was just as hurt as Tatum was. In fact, we actually saw Brown get hurt last game.
Reggie Mill is a fucking doofus but he mentioned that brown might be hurt multiple times during the broadcast.
There were basically no posts in this thread mentioning Brown possibly being injured. If the same exact thing happened with Tatum, this thread is fucking littered with “yeah, Tatum has sucked but his forearm is seriously hurt! It’s a credit to him he’s out there!”
I didnt see the x-rays or mris on JT or JB so I can't make a diagnosis on their injuries and how they may or may not have impacted on court performance.

That you and Reggie did is to your credit.

I just thought JB played like shit tonight.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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It’s just fucking stupid. Who knows if it actually matters but it’s way behind the point of Grant just shutting the fuck up. I though Donovan Mitchell turning him into a puddle would curb Grants talking but apparently I expected way too much from him
Certainly stupid but the whole team has been stupid for years it’s all part of the total stupid package.
 

tbb345

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They had a great regular season, got the 2 seed but had the best underlying numbers in the league by a good bit. Mazzulla is having some learning pains as a rookie in the playoffs... it is what it is, but overall he did a good job this year in an incredibly tough spot. He probably shouldn't be fired unless Tatum asks for it, I don't think there is anyone available who is a clear upgrade, all the vets have their own flaws, without the excuse of inexperience.
Nurse and Lue would be massive upgrades. If either of them send out feelers saying they want this job then screw Mazzulla and he’s gone. Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise and he can just watch The Town every waking moment of his life
 

teddykgb

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If Jaylen is hurt then forcing and missing a bunch of shots was a strange way to deal with it. Regardless, the narrative excusing Tatum due to injury was weak last year also. Tatums “problem “ is that he’s not elite quick as a dribbler and so guys can play him tight and he can be double teamed. Jaylen is quick but a poor dribbler so he has many of the same limitations but isn’t nearly as good s defender or rebounder. Fundamentally I think overall their entire move the ball and eventually get a 3 offense is flawed in a playoff environment where teams can game plan and make it hard to score the way they want to score. Aside from tier glimpses like Philly GM 7, Tatum hasn’t shown the ability to come down the floor for 6,7,8 possessions and generate a good shot on his own the way Butler does.
 

Cellar-Door

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I didnt see the x-rays or mris on JT or JB so I can't make a diagnosis on their injuries and how they may or may not have impacted on court performance.

That you and Reggie did is to your credit.

I just thought JB played like shit tonight.
If JB has an injury that effects his shooting... fine. But he took took a team high 23 attempts many of them absolutely awful decision.. maybe throttle back on those if you're hurt. Also, apparently his injury made him unable to box out, or pass, or play off-ball defense.... he was absolutely awful and many of the things were effort/focus related.
 

bankshot1

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They had a great regular season, got the 2 seed but had the best underlying numbers in the league by a good bit. Mazzulla is having some learning pains as a rookie in the playoffs... it is what it is, but overall he did a good job this year in an incredibly tough spot. He probably shouldn't be fired unless Tatum asks for it, I don't think there is anyone available who is a clear upgrade, all the vets have their own flaws, without the excuse of inexperience.
We disagree. I do not think they had a great regular season. Imo they played under their potential for a lot of the year. They were inconsistent, lacked focus, and often pissed away games they should have won. And I posted exactly that at the time.

AND THESE ARE THE SAME PROBLEMS THEY ARE HAVING NOW.

YMMV.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I just don’t see how Joe survives if they lose this series. He’s going to be the scapegoat. He’d be booed out of the Garden on opening night next year. Whether it’s fair or not, this team does not need a rookie coach figuring things out on the fly. I understand their hands were tied this year but it didn’t work out and they need a veteran head coach to get through to this core. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Joe. You’re done.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The East was very weak this year with only Milwaukee/Boston/Philly playing like actual contenders during the season and really Milwaukee the only one doing it consistently. There is nothing particularly impressive about their regular season. Someone had to be the 2 seed.

Edit: Do, however, agree that the major issue is they think they will just walk on the floor in the playoffs and magic will somehow happen. They play act at toughness and bearing down and it’s all a load of BS.
 

Cellar-Door

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We disagree. I do not think they had a great regular season. Imo they played under their potential for a lot of the year. They were inconsistent, lacked focus, and often pissed away games they should have won. And I posted exactly that at the time.

AND THESE ARE THE SAME PROBLEMS THEY ARE HAVING NOW.

YMMV.
I think that's just a product of watching them more than other teams. Yes they did those things, but in an NBA regular season everyone does. Everybody loses dumb games they shouldn't, everybody gets sloppy, everyone has losing streaks. They finished the year with the 2nd most wins, as the only team top 5 in both offense and defense. I mean DEN collapsed down the stretch, people were talking about 1st round upsets... thats the NBA.
The problem with this core has been that they don't lock in the way many other teams do in the playoffs, they play every game the same as the regular season.
 

Ale Xander

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The East was very weak this year with only Milwaukee/Boston/Philly playing like actual contenders during the season and really Milwaukee the only one doing it consistently. There is nothing particularly impressive about their regular season. Someone had to be the 2 seed.

Edit: Do, however, agree that the major issue is they think they will just walk on the floor in the playoffs and magic will somehow happen. They play act at toughness and bearing down and it’s all a load of BS.
Yup
They lost to Indy, to Houston, to Utah, THREE times to Orlando, To Wizards by double digits

and to OKC by THIRTY THREE
 

Cellar-Door

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The East was very weak this year with only Milwaukee/Boston/Philly playing like actual contenders during the season and really Milwaukee the only one doing it consistently. There is nothing particularly impressive about their regular season. Someone had to be the 2 seed.

Edit: Do, however, agree that the major issue is they think they will just walk on the floor in the playoffs and magic will somehow happen. They play act at toughness and bearing down and it’s all a load of BS.
I get people are disappointed but they were 1 game off the best record in the league, they were the best team by every other metric (SRS, Net Rtg, etc.) they were the best team in the league. THAT is what makes this playoff run so disappointing, this wasn't a team that was mediocre and caught fire, they were the best regular season team. Everybody drops games, if anything their good record against the best teams was seen as an indication that when they turned it on they could/should beat anybody, and the losses to bad teams was just the standard regular season stuff that always happens.
 

tbb345

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If JB has an injury that effects his shooting... fine. But he took took a team high 23 attempts many of them absolutely awful decision.. maybe throttle back on those if you're hurt. Also, apparently his injury made him unable to box out, or pass, or play off-ball defense.... he was absolutely awful and many of the things were effort/focus related.
Ok, I pay attention to your posts so I have a problem with this.

it was abundantly clear to literally everyone last game that Pritchard was a problem. It lead multiple basketball podcasts that it was a complete shit decision for him to play. Butler searched him out, he was a fucking disaster.

Your response to that was “I’ll have to watch the film again but I just don’t know.”

I watched this entire game. Brown sucked but I don’t think his performance is leading National basketball podcasts because he sucked so much. Yet you’re perfectly willing to completely shit on JB.

I won’t jump into your Mazzula defenses but i also find them very lame
 

bankshot1

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I think that's just a product of watching them more than other teams. Yes they did those things, but in an NBA regular season everyone does. Everybody loses dumb games they shouldn't, everybody gets sloppy, everyone has losing streaks. They finished the year with the 2nd most wins, as the only team top 5 in both offense and defense. I mean DEN collapsed down the stretch, people were talking about 1st round upsets... thats the NBA.
The problem with this core has been that they don't lock in the way many other teams do in the playoffs, they play every game the same as the regular season.
Really good teams, and despite recent events, I continue to believe the Celts are a really talented and good team,, don't serially lose 4th qtr leads and this team does it far too often. Consequently I have a difficult time characterizing them as having a really good year as they played and are playing well below their potential. And have for months. And it's a damn shame because they may be the most talented team in the NBA
 

Cellar-Door

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Ok, I pay attention to your posts so I have a problem with this.

it was abundantly clear to literally everyone last game that Pritchard was a problem. It lead multiple basketball podcasts that it was a complete shit decision for him to play. Butler searched him out, he was a fucking disaster.

Your response to that was “I’ll have to watch the film again but I just don’t know.”

I watched this entire game. Brown sucked but I don’t think his performance is leading National basketball podcasts because he sucked so much. Yet you’re perfectly willing to completely shit on JB.

I won’t jump into your Mazzula defenses but i also find them very lame
I mean... Pritchard played 12 minutes of essentially neutral score, JB played 38 minutes and was a -24, we were +18 in the 10 minutes he sat... IT SHOULD lead discussion of this game. The Pritchard thing lead because it was a guy people thought shouldn't play playing and fed into an ongoing discussion of whether Mazzulla was over his head, that's narrative. JB's performance tonight was more impactful in our losing than PP in game 1. i get that you are the #1 Brown defender, he can do no wrong, he's getting a raw deal, why doesn't Tatum get htis kind of criticism, etc. etc. But if your takeaway from tonight wasn't that Jaylen had one of the worst performances of his last 2-3 years on both ends, you aren't being honest with yourself.
 

Ale Xander

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Ok, I pay attention to your posts so I have a problem with this.

it was abundantly clear to literally everyone last game that Pritchard was a problem. It lead multiple basketball podcasts that it was a complete shit decision for him to play. Butler searched him out, he was a fucking disaster.

Your response to that was “I’ll have to watch the film again but I just don’t know.”

I watched this entire game. Brown sucked but I don’t think his performance is leading National basketball podcasts because he sucked so much. Yet you’re perfectly willing to completely shit on JB.

I won’t jump into your Mazzula defenses but i also find them very lame
PP didn’t really underperform though. He’s the teams 10th or 11th man.

JB is a 2nd team all nba, 2nd best Celtics player, probably going to get the Supermax, who was complete garbage and the main reason they lost tonight
 

kieckeredinthehead

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I think that's just a product of watching them more than other teams. Yes they did those things, but in an NBA regular season everyone does. Everybody loses dumb games they shouldn't, everybody gets sloppy, everyone has losing streaks. They finished the year with the 2nd most wins, as the only team top 5 in both offense and defense. I mean DEN collapsed down the stretch, people were talking about 1st round upsets... thats the NBA.
The problem with this core has been that they don't lock in the way many other teams do in the playoffs, they play every game the same as the regular season.
Comparing their overall net rating to net rating in the clutch in the regular season, the Celtics had the largest drop-off of any playoff team. They were the best team in the league for the first 43 minutes and then turned to shit when it mattered most. Sound familiar? They lost a lot of games they could have won because they had no idea how to close. If there was one single thing this team needed to learn, it was how to win when it's close and late. And again, maybe those outcomes are just random, but the "strategy" they had in those situations looked braindead - and argued about over and over on the main board. If you want to take three quarters off at home against Orlando in December, fine. If it's tied with four minutes to go, the #2 team in the NBA should win that game. If you want to take the game off against Houston in March, fine. If you're down 3 with 52 seconds to go and Jaylen Brown gets 3 free throws, the #2 team in the NBA should win that game.
 

Cellar-Door

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Comparing their overall net rating to net rating in the clutch in the regular season, the Celtics had the largest drop-off of any playoff team. They were the best team in the league for the first 43 minutes and then turned to shit when it mattered most. Sound familiar? They lost a lot of games they could have won because they had no idea how to close. If there was one single thing this team needed to learn, it was how to win when it's close and late. And again, maybe those outcomes are just random, but the "strategy" they had in those situations looked braindead - and argued about over and over on the main board. If you want to take three quarters off at home against Orlando in December, fine. If it's tied with four minutes to go, the #2 team in the NBA should win that game. If you want to take the game off against Houston in March, fine. If you're down 3 with 52 seconds to go and Jaylen Brown gets 3 free throws, the #2 team in the NBA should win that game.
I get it, but they were terrible in the clutch last year too. I guess my question is... what constitutes a good regular season? To me it's wins, and where you rank among your peers. Sure there are going to be concerns, unless you're the 72 win Warriors. The problem isn't that they had a bad regular season, they had a really good one... it's that the minor negatives in the regular season all carried over to the playoffs and are particularly rearing their heads in the conference finals... same as last year (when we were even worse in the clutch).
 

kieckeredinthehead

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This year the Celtics were 10-10 in games decided by 5 or fewer points; Miami was 25-14. Going into the playoffs I sort of figured that was random noise -- and the only reason the Heat even made it. Not so sure any more.
 

tbb345

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PP didn’t really underperform though. He’s the teams 10th or 11th man.

JB is a 2nd team all nba, 2nd best Celtics player, probably going to get the Supermax, who was complete garbage and the main reason they lost tonight
If your posts end with “I don’t know, I have to check the film to see” in response to Payton Pritchard sucking on defense, personally, I don’t think you can ever make proclamations on a player sucking directly after the game.
Ar that point, your stance is that I don’t care about the eye test no matter what and anything said after the game is hasty and wrong
 

bankshot1

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The answer is easy.

If the Celts won the games they should have won then you might have some evidence of a great season.

Unfortunately the evidence suggests as kickedinthehead so well posted they gakked so many games they should have closed,, as to all but eliminate greatness as a realistic quality.
 

Just a bit outside

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Love the optimism of you guys and not trying to be a Debbie Downer but as objectively as possible, I just do not see any way that this team takes 4 of 5 from Miami
My hope is that they have played like crap for two games and been close. They are going to need some bounces but I do think they are more talented and still have a chance.
 

scottyno

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I just don’t see how Joe survives if they lose this series. He’s going to be the scapegoat. He’d be booed out of the Garden on opening night next year. Whether it’s fair or not, this team does not need a rookie coach figuring things out on the fly. I understand their hands were tied this year but it didn’t work out and they need a veteran head coach to get through to this core. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Joe. You’re done.
He'd be booed out of the garden opening night next year if they lose in the conference finals? Jesus fucking christ, this might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. I must have missed Brad being booed after the Cs lost in the bubble.
 

Bergs

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Jimmy Butler might be my favorite player in the NBA right now. That says a lot since I fucking also hate him.
 

Bergs

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He'd be booed out of the garden opening night next year if they lose in the conference finals? Jesus fucking christ, this might be one of the worst takes I've ever seen. I must have missed Brad being booed after the Cs lost in the bubble.
You might need to get a massage or something.
 

Nick Kaufman

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if they went into the playoffs with mazzulla on an interim tag, I think that becomes a big story and distraction.

the mistake was hiring him in the first place
Spoiler alert. Every coach in every sport is interim whether they have that label or not.
 

NickEsasky

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Love how quickly this bullshit comes out when the going gets tough. Same shit every series.
Yeah you’re right. Same shit all the time with this team. I watch just as much as you do. I’ve seen it with my own two eyes. But enjoy your pure fandom on that high horse.
 
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ragnarok725

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Yeah you’re right. Same shit all the time with this team. I watch just as much as you do. I’ve seen it with my own two eyes. But enjoy your pure fandom on that high horse.
I'm as frustrated with this team as anyone. Hence the frustrated one-liner.

But they're not soft. We've seen them come through in game 6s and game 7s over and over. They haven't won it all but they've shown a lot of mettle. The softness narrative isn't stupid because it's negative, it's stupid because it's just so clearly detached from the reality of this team. Watching Tatum go off in the 4th quarter of game 6 in Philly to push to game 7 and then win... that's not what soft players or soft teams do. And they did the same thing last year against the defending champion Bucks. Soft teams crumble, and the Cs don't do that.

This team's problem is sloppiness and inconsistency. It always has been. For a variety of reasons none of us understand, they just can't consistently access the best version of themselves. That's not due to softness. I don't think it's due to the coach, it's now a problem that has spanned 3 coaches. I have no god damn clue why, which makes it all the more frustrating. Maybe it's just the natural variance of the game.

Anyway, obviously we're all pissed, disappointed, frustrated, and should probably be giving eachother a pass on how we express that. Sorry.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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When it was 100-100 and we had the ball and Marcus just duffed the ball into Vincent's hands...I mean, those kinds of plays are the ones that are just baffling in crunch time.
I just chuckled. Marcus wanted to reduce his touch-to-turnover duration rating, so rather than dribble a bit then fling it at Jalen’s feet, he handed it over.

Efficient.
 

tims4wins

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how does this series go if we trade coaches?
Fo Fo Fo Fo
I’m just worn out watching this group do the same dumb shit over and over to lose games. There’s so much blame to go around. Barring a miracle, what a waste of a championship window by just playing dumb, soft, and sloppy basketball.
Worn out is a great way to describe it. Does anyone enjoy watching 48 minutes from this team every night? It's draining.
We should have traded for Mientkiewicz.
This deserved more love.
Jimmy Butler might be my favorite player in the NBA right now. That says a lot since I fucking also hate him.
Ditto.
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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I wonder if "pressure to win a title in Boston" is a thing again.

Since Brady left, it feels like there's been a tangible buildup. Sox playoff run in '21, Bruins this year, Celtics this year and last. But it's been prom decade so far.