Who will yell at refs with passion? Cs Coaching Search

jose melendez

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Acie Earl is the right choice. Fomer Coach of the Tijuana Dragons, Adjunct Professor, Author of 6 books, deep roots with the Celtics.
 

tbrown_01923

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The Boston Public Schools are "largely" minority and a "ton" of money has been spent on education and resources to make them better.
in 2017 boston ranked 2nd on per pupil spending in the largest 100 districts (https://www.asumag.com/research/top-10s/article/21126924/among-largest-districts-who-spends-the-most-per-pupil). So there's that (maybe cost of living drives some of that up, but my unlce who was headmaster at Sidwell Friends (amongst other schools) said per pupil expenditure was a (one of) primary indicator...
 

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Jimbodandy

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wade boggs chicken dinner

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I would assume the Michael Irvin in this case is not THAT Michael Irvin. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp2/31/208/2516291/ Strange that this got little or no play in the Boston media whatsoever.
It was a different time back then. There were lots of assumptions that women were making allegations to get settlements out of famous men. If you're interested, Vox is doing a series of the misogyny of that time focusing on Paris Hilton, Brittney, etc.

in 2017 boston ranked 2nd on per pupil spending in the largest 100 districts (https://www.asumag.com/research/top-10s/article/21126924/among-largest-districts-who-spends-the-most-per-pupil). So there's that (maybe cost of living drives some of that up, but my unlce who was headmaster at Sidwell Friends (amongst other schools) said per pupil expenditure was a (one of) primary indicator...
Not to turn this into a sociological system, BOS spends $22K per pupil. An average private school spends twice that and its students are way easier to teach than the ones in public schools. That's not even including investment in facilities, extra curricular activities, before- and after-care, equipment, and the like - nor the ability to attract and retain top-flight employees. Public school education in urban areas is pretty bad across the US, not just BOS. Jaylen mentioned all of this and rightly so IMO.
 

amarshal2

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Hiring a Black coach won’t move the needle on the C’s race problems, because those problems are a reflection of the city rather than the franchise.

With the C’s current roster, I’d lean toward hiring a coach who played in the league — so, most likely, a Black man. But it’s unfair to think any coach is going to come here and address a situation much bigger than basketball that has been sitting in plain view (at least in the sight of the rest of the country) since the 1970s.
I certainly did not mean to imply that hiring a black coach would cure all the problems related to race that the city of Boston and by extension the Celtics have ever had. But I also disagree that it "won't move the needle." Ultimately, this is about setting the tone for the players. Players care who they play for. A franchise is more than a reflection of its fanbase. It's not everything but it's a thing and hiring another white coach when there are so many former player black coaches out there sends the wrong signal. I literally would not hire Bird or McHale.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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I'd love to see what Tatum could do under a D'Antoni offense. It's probably not a recipe for a championship, and another old white guy isn't where they should be looking, but it would be a lot of fun.

I agree on the above point that I don't want one of the current assistants - a fresh voice is needed. I get the impression that the current staff has been built to focus on individual development, but I'd like the see the new staff have a Doc-Thibs dynamic with a strong assistant taking control of the defense or offense for games.
 

tbrown_01923

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Not to turn this into a sociological system, BOS spends $22K per pupil. An average private school spends twice that and its students are way easier to teach than the ones in public schools. That's not even including investment in facilities, extra curricular activities, before- and after-care, equipment, and the like - nor the ability to attract and retain top-flight employees. Public school education in urban areas is pretty bad across the US, not just BOS. Jaylen mentioned all of this and rightly so IMO.
Agreed that we should spend more in public school education and everything that comes with it. By comparrison, my home town, (a perfecly mediocre school district on massachusetts north shore) spends ~15k per student. The problem seems to be public education.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I'm also skeptical about the "Hire whoever the Jays want" angle, for a few reasons. One, Tatum and Brown (at least from the outside) have very different personalities. What makes anyone think they're going to share the same #1 choice? Or have some sort of super strong opinion? Even if they did somehow share the same strong preference, and that coach was hired, does that really mean anything in terms of staying down the line? Outside of maybe Duncan/Pop, what NBA player makes loyalty decisions based on their coach? I just don't think there's much evidence that players care about the coach all that much...unless they simply can't stand the coach--and in those cases, ownership fires the coach.
Maybe the better way to think about it is, they should be consulted early on in the process about the type of people they might want - and as you say their answer may very well be "as long as we get someone who will help us win I don't care who it is." And then they should probably get a (qualified) veto once the list is narrowed - if the Celtics come down to two names and the Jays either are really in favor of one and/or are really against the other, I think that should carry a ton of weight.

Basically, you need some level of buy-in from them so that they feel satisfied with whatever the decision is. What you don't want is the process to go on entirely without their involvement - if that happened, even if they ultimately ended up liking the choice, I can see them feeling a bit slighted/disrespected.

Edit: Along the same lines, I think the Cs must avoid hiring someone that had a bad relationship with stars in the past. Lloyd Pierce is a perfect example - he might be a fine coach but the reporting has been pretty clear that Trae and others didn't like him, and that he didn't really like Trae either. So if they hired Pierce, you know the first thing Tatum is going to do is text Trae to ask "hey what do you think of this guy" and if Trae's answer is "I couldn't stand him, good luck" that's really not a good start no matter how much Tatum tries to keep an open mind.
 

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What are the rules, written or otherwise, about talking to assistants whose teams are still in the playoffs, such as Cassell and Billups (whose Clippers may be finished soon)? Would the C's have to wait until the Sixers' and Clippers' seasons are over to interview Cassell and Billups? Not sure there's a huge rush to get a new coach in place, but it wouldn't hurt.
 
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bankshot1

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The only white guy remotely under consideration for the Celtics coaching job is Red Auerbach.

And I understand Red is pushing Sam Cassell.

The tone deafness and condescension of Danny's comments kind of dictate a new message come from the Celts, and the selection of a African American coach
 

RetractableRoof

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I'm certainly not against the inclination to appoint a former black-NBA player as coach (shoot - if I were a baseball GM, a Spanish-speaking candidate would be a prerequisite) who can connect with today's young stars....

Normally - I would say "best candidate available"....white, black, male, female, straight, gay....who cares....but I agree with the sentiment to lean towards the demographic that is the composition of your future / current stars. So no problem there.

What I "do" have a problem with (at the risk of throwing a grenade and turning this thread into a V&N shit show) is the bullshit that's being spewed about The Celtics and the City of Boston as some kinda' northern version of Dothan, Alabama. The Boston of 2021 is not even "close" to the Boston of the 70's with forced busing. The neighborhoods of South Boston, Charlestown and East Boston (which were - by far - white only enclaves with peoples from European descent) are now comprised of a great mixture of people that have minority representation(s) in local government.

Additionally - the police force has made "enormous" strides to integrate via affirmative action....

The Boston Public Schools are "largely" minority and a "ton" of money has been spent on education and resources to make them better.

This may or may not be a popular position....but Kyrie can go screw himself. His father's 4 years of playing basketball on Comm. Ave. in the 80's does not make him some sort of expert on Boston's race relations past or present.

And this may very well be a less popular position....but Jaylen Brown's comments (while deserving of a larger discussion) could be scrutinized also. Within his comments, he singled-out the Boston Public Schools with a hint that it was not serving the minority (African American?) communities in an optimal fashion. That's bullshit...busing, METCO programs, and enormous amount of spending per student have been in full-force for decades. He parachuted into Boston a few years ago....has a $100 million contract to play a game...and now wants to be a catalyst for a sociology discussion? Let's have it - but he better be objective and open to "all" answers for "all" the challenges on the table for "all" people(s).

Interesting week in Celtics-land....

Rant over....sign Sam Cassell.
To the bolded: As Cedric Maxwell has said repeatedly (and very recently in direct response to questions about this current firestorm), "the city of Boston has not cornered the market on racism". Paraphrasing his other comments: Many things to work on certainly (including specifically in the sports domain - the lack of executives of color in the Celtics management structure), but anyone looking at Boston as worse than any other large city is going a bit too far.

Edit: Maxwell also roughly made the same comment that Ainge did: "In x years as a player, and x as a broadcaster totaling into the decades, I've never heard any racism on the court or in the Garden." So, to those calling Ainge tone-deaf, is Maxwell also tone deaf? Should his opinion as a person of color (in various roles with the team/city) be dismissed as well? For me, there was some tension with him and the team for a long while, and I can't see him being one who would carry the water for the Celtics on this issue.

Aside: I wonder how Maxwell feels about Stevens bump to the executive tier given his comments about the lack of executives of color? I wonder if he will hold his comments until a GM or new executive team is installed...

Second aside: In the last game thread (of the season :/), someone was commenting on Gorman being a bit out of character from his typical broadcast demeaner (one-liners, off the cuff stuff). (Actually, the game before he was also reported to have been avoiding the use of Irving's name unless absolutely necessary - also out step from his on air persona.) I'm wondering if Ainge spilled the beans to Gorman, and he knowing change was coming took some license to be a little more... "care free"? Taking that a step forward, it's been my thought that Gorman didn't really want to be on the air this year, and I've been waiting for him to announce his retirement as well. Anyone hear speculation with respect to that? He was/is really emotional about Tommy's passing, and I feel as though some of the 'life' in his call has left the on air game for him. That's not a critique, more of one persons observation, I'm feeling for the guy. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't shake the feeling he's going to wind it down - I don't see him as the final year "curtain call" circuit kind of guy.
 
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bakahump

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While I know JT is our Alpha (with JB just behind) I would be weary of "letting them make the call".
Input? Sure.
Opinion? Ok.
Thoughts? Undoubtedly.

But as much as we love JT he is still a young kid who SOMETIMES does what JT thinks is best for JT and not whats best for the Celtics. 50 pt games are awesome......but we also have an occasional 21 seconds of dribbling before jacking up a low % 3.

The head coach needs to have some authority. I think the "LBJ Effect" has made everyone think you can give the keys to your best player and it will work out. That worked for James because he is a top 2 of ALL TIMES player and because he knew that sometimes non Lebron things needed to happen to actually win (Much like the other GOAT MJ). I dont know if he came out of HS that way or if that was only after 5 + years. But it happened.

So while I want a coach who can relate to JT and JB, who they can like and laugh with. When Coach says "MOVE THE DAMN BALL" I want them to Move the ball. Not worry that JT and JB will "Change there mind on the current coach".

Sam Cassell is STRONG.
 

bakahump

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@RetractableRoof Agreed on Mike. Have mentioned a few times how I thought he had lost the fastball. Maybe he has. Maybe he just didnt have the same drive. Maybe a bit of both.

In my Naïve view I think Mike Came back, again for continuity, to Help usher in Scal. I can see him doing a another "normal" year (I think the at home road game calls actually helped this year), just to cement Scal as the next "guy". I think Mike loves the Celtics enough to do it and I think he knows that Tommy would want any one left alive on this planet to do anything they could to help the Celts.

So I think one more year. Or maybe a "he does home games" and a newbie tryout candidate (not an actual newbie just new to the market) gets the Road games with Scal. Builds a relationship while Mike cements Scal. Last 6 home games a 3 man booth with Both Scal and the New Guy deferring to Mike. Final game call is a sploogefest.
 

luckiestman

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Second aside: In the last game thread (of the season :/), someone was commenting on Gorman being a bit out of character from his typical broadcast demeaner (one-liners, off the cuff stuff). (Actually, the game before he was also reported to have been avoiding the use of Irving's name unless absolutely necessary - also out step from his on air persona.) I'm wondering if Ainge spilled the beans to Gorman, and he knowing change was coming took some license to be a little more... "care free"? Taking that a step forward, it's been my thought that Gorman didn't really want to be on the air this year, and I've been waiting for him to announce his retirement as well. Anyone hear speculation with respect to that? He was/is really emotional about Tommy's passing, and I feel as though some of the 'life' in his call has left the on air game for him. That's not a critique, more of one persons observation, I'm feeling for the guy. I hope I'm wrong, but I can't shake the feeling he's going to wind it down - I don't see him as the final year "curtain call" circuit kind of guy.

Covid and studio broadcasting because of Covid make me unwilling to make any bold predictions or inferences about Gorman.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, Tatum is not in pick your coach territory.
He's a star and stars get a heads up who you're considering, and you do take into consideration his personality and style when picking a coach.
Usually pick you coach is for superstars and a trade for getting them to sign. Maybe in 3 years if this hire doesn't work out you let Tatum pick his guy in exchange for extending.

Beyond changing the view of FAs and start about Boston, I think we're at the point where you want a particular type of coach for this team.

Brad was a builder and a tactician, but he wasn't a guy with a lot of shared experiences with his guys. I think this team if you;re looking to switch up the dynamic coming off an incredibly difficult and stressful stretch on and off-court could use someone who has a closer connection to the life experience of a lot of our main guys. To me that means likely a Black, preferably fairly young coach. I think that dynamic could be really helpful for this team.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I don't know what sport you people are watching but in the NBA, star players seem to have a huge say in who coaches their teams. Tatum may not get much of a say in who his next coach is but that would be a shock. Furthermore, I suspect most NBA franchises would grant him that power to lure him away from Boston. Tatum is absolutely at the level of player who can pick their own coach. Maybe it will be elsewhere...

Edit: Let's frame it another way. Is there any coaching candidate out there who is worth losing Jayson Tatum? My vote is absolutely not just to be clear.
 

RetractableRoof

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I don't know what sport you people are watching but in the NBA, star players seem to have a huge say in who coaches their teams. Tatum may not get much of a say in who his next coach is but that would be a shock. Furthermore, I suspect most NBA franchises would grant him that power to lure him away from Boston. Tatum is absolutely at the level of player who can pick their own coach. Maybe it will be elsewhere...

Edit: Let's frame it another way. Is there any coaching candidate out there who is worth losing Jayson Tatum? My vote is absolutely not just to be clear.
Evan Turner it is then.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Edit: Let's frame it another way. Is there any coaching candidate out there who is worth losing Jayson Tatum? My vote is absolutely not just to be clear.
There isn't. But that's not nearly the same as letting Tatum pick the coach. Imagine that Jayson Tatum for some reason really pushes for Jason Kidd. The Celtics hire Kidd, and the team never comes together under him, having dissappointing seasons in 2021-22 and 2022-2023. At this point, no matter how badly Tatum wanted Kidd, the conversations Tatum is having with his agent are not about how happy he is to be playing for Kidd, they are about what the bext exit strategy is.

The Celtics need to 1) give Tatum some kind of legitimate input into the decision and 2) hire someone who will be a good fit with the team and who is acceptable to Tatum. That's different from letting him choose, which is a potential recipe for disaster.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don't know what sport you people are watching but in the NBA, star players seem to have a huge say in who coaches their teams. Tatum may not get much of a say in who his next coach is but that would be a shock. Furthermore, I suspect most NBA franchises would grant him that power to lure him away from Boston. Tatum is absolutely at the level of player who can pick their own coach. Maybe it will be elsewhere...

Edit: Let's frame it another way. Is there any coaching candidate out there who is worth losing Jayson Tatum? My vote is absolutely not just to be clear.
I agree you can't pick someone either Tatum or Brown really dislikes/opposes. That is different than them picking the coach, though.

You want to engage them now, ask for their input at the level of characteristics, experience, profile so you've heard that. You explain there's a lot of factors and the final person may not be 100% what they want, but that you take very seriously what they care about and you will keep in regular touch with them about the process with updates and so they can provide input. You might ask for names, but you might not. You want them to believe that you care about their input, you actually should care about their input, and you also need the coach to show up and be able to coach them. If any coach has in their head "I can't criticize Tatum" they will fail. Similarly, if any coach has in their head 'I don't care what the players think' they are going to fail even faster.
 

bankshot1

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JT will just ask KI what he thinks is best for the Celts.

That should work out well.

Hopefully Brad will listen to input from a few key guys and explain in advance his hiring and reasoning to his players as best he can.

Brad's job is to build a team and hire an effective coach-communicator that can carry out his vision of winning basketball.

I want the Js to be happy, but if they insist on veto power, or the right to make coaching changes, that's a real problem.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't know what sport you people are watching but in the NBA, star players seem to have a huge say in who coaches their teams. Tatum may not get much of a say in who his next coach is but that would be a shock. Furthermore, I suspect most NBA franchises would grant him that power to lure him away from Boston. Tatum is absolutely at the level of player who can pick their own coach. Maybe it will be elsewhere...

Edit: Let's frame it another way. Is there any coaching candidate out there who is worth losing Jayson Tatum? My vote is absolutely not just to be clear.
It's about timing, if Tatum had 1 year left on his deal, or maybe 2 you're more likely to get close to letting him pick his coach.

Very few players PICK their coach. Now coaches might get chosen based on how they fit with the player, and you want your player to feel his input is wanted and valued, but usually that's a thing like saying,.. oh hey we're looking at this guy, or noting what type of coach he might want.

The players who do PICK their coach are almost always either FAs or soon to be FAs, and that is part of the deal for getting/keeping them.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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JT might not be picking the next coach, but the next coach is definitely going to be someone Tatum is on board with.

They aren't hiring a guy Tatum doesn't like. Unless the move is to trade Tatum.
 

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His tenure at Vandy, admittedly a tough place to win, has been a little rocky, I believe.
Yes, but he had success in the G League, and was involved with Toronto as a coach. His name is also being thrown around for the UNC coaching position, so it isn't like he isn't respected as a coach.

Do you mean he's had off court issues?
 
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cardiacs

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I was thinking if they hire ET as coach he would be almost like a player-coach with the J's in his ear and influencing him at all times. I don't think that is a great idea. I do like the nominations of Sam I Am and Billups the most so far.

edit - and without getting too much into it I think they absolutely need to hire the most highly qualified, young-ish black coach available.
 

JM3

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I'd be happy enough with Sam Cassell. It makes me feel really old to realize he's 51.

Meh on Billups, although he'd be better than the Lloyd Pierce/Jason Kidds of the world.

Wes Unseld Jr. is another reasonable option who I'd prefer over any retread.
 

Eddie Jurak

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So, after dismissing the idea of Kara Lawson when someone raised it yesterday, I've seen the suggestion come up elsewhere.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/06/03/Who-will-Brad-Stevens-hire-as-the-new-Celtics-head-coach?-Here's-an-extensive-look-at-his-options

In a column looking at potential coaching candidates, John Karalis write the following:

The most interesting candidate

Kara Lawson


Lawson is a great former point guard but not so elite so as to get away on sheer talent alone, a former NBA assistant coach who knows this particular Celtics team, and current college head coach. Lawson relates on almost every level.

I can already see the comments about Lawson being a woman, so I’ll turn it over to Brian Scalabrine, who said this on the latest Celtics Talk podcast:

“She’s insanely good. She’s insanely good as a coach. And it wasn't like -- it's not one of those things where, well, ‘she's good for a female.’ No, no, no, no. She walked into practice and she commanded practice right from the jump. She was giving people tips and people's jaws were dropping. She's elite and what she does, and the issue with her going to Duke, and she really hadn't got a chance to coach this year because of COVID, but I had five conversations with her, and I was immediately like ... to me, Kara Lawson I thought like from the jump, she has head coaching material within five minutes to talking with her. And that’s just me meeting her on my own. And then I started asking the other coaches about her, and it was, like, authentically, they were like this person, she is a completely different level as a basketball coach ... I don't even want to go down the road of saying this would be a historic hire, I think she might be the most qualified for the job. When you think about these players and who they already know, and you're bringing in somebody that Brad respects and the players respect, to me I think it makes the most sense.”

Lawson will get an interview if she wants it. I can confirm that she has a high level of respect on this team and from the players. She will be a strong candidate if she’s willing to leave Duke after just one year on the job there.
I still think... too many things working against this. But less crazy a thought than I would have thought.
 

RetractableRoof

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So, after dismissing the idea of Kara Lawson when someone raised it yesterday, I've seen the suggestion come up elsewhere.

https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/06/03/Who-will-Brad-Stevens-hire-as-the-new-Celtics-head-coach?-Here's-an-extensive-look-at-his-options

In a column looking at potential coaching candidates, John Karalis write the following:


I still think... too many things working against this. But less crazy a thought than I would have thought.
Just to be a smart aleck... I mean she is credited with having worked with Smart on his shooting... is that all she's got?

Thanks for the link, sounds like she knows what she is doing, and has respect of her peers. It will be interesting - I bet a conversation is had - if she isn't interested, Brad might want her input on evaluating the other internal options.
 
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Old friend Brian Shaw might be a possibility, although perhaps he is DQ'd by his less-than-impressive stint in Denver. But sometimes second chances pay off.
 

chilidawg

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I have no idea if he's a good coach or not, but Sam I am was very entertaining as a player on and off the court, so he gets my vote. Plus a buddy went to high school with him and has some funny stories about him. That's all I got.
 

moondog80

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So Jason Kidd -- Damian Lillard's choice -- has taken himself out of the hunt for the Blazers job.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jerome Allen is interviewing with the Blazers. Usually when a “name” pulls out it is due to inside info that the team has already made a decision. It’s a common PR move to not have “lost” the job to another coach.
 

cheech13

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Jerome Allen is interviewing with the Blazers. Usually when a “name” pulls out it is due to inside info that the team has already made a decision. It’s a common PR move to not have “lost” the job to another coach.
Let me just say that local reaction here in Portland regarding Kidd as a coaching candidate was pure revile and disgust. There’s no way he would have been hired, Dame endorsement or not. Still think Billups emerges as their guy.
 

128

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Let me just say that local reaction here in Portland regarding Kidd as a coaching candidate was pure revile and disgust. There’s no way he would have been hired, Dame endorsement or not. Still think Billups emerges as their guy.
Which leaves Cassell for the C's? I could live with that.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Let me just say that local reaction here in Portland regarding Kidd as a coaching candidate was pure revile and disgust. There’s no way he would have been hired, Dame endorsement or not. Still think Billups emerges as their guy.
Why is Billups any better?
 

moondog80

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Jerome Allen is interviewing with the Blazers. Usually when a “name” pulls out it is due to inside info that the team has already made a decision. It’s a common PR move to not have “lost” the job to another coach.
Very possible this is the case. It's also something someone does when they have another job lined up.
 

128

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Very possible this is the case. It's also something someone does when they have another job lined up.
Hard for me to believe a hire is imminent in Boston, especially if the C's are interested in two assistants (Billups and Cassell) whose teams are still in the playoffs.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Hard for me to believe a hire is imminent in Boston, especially if the C's are interested in two assistants (Billups and Cassell) whose teams are still in the playoffs.
Don’t assistants on playoff teams routinely interview during the playoffs?
 

128

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Don’t assistants on playoff teams routinely interview during the playoffs?
No idea. I would think assistants would want to, to keep from being passed over by teams that want new coaches in place sooner rather than later.

That said, you'd think Woj or Shams would have reported as much if the C's interviewed one of those guys. It'd be hard to keep that totally under the radar, no? Those guys have multiple sources in these teams.
 
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moondog80

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Hard for me to believe a hire is imminent in Boston, especially if the C's are interested in two assistants (Billups and Cassell) whose teams are still in the playoffs.
I dunno. But there's a reason Kidd backed away from Portland. And there's been rumors about Damian Lillard pursuing a trade. The pieces, they sort of do fit together.
 

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5,150
around the way
I dunno. But there's a reason Kidd backed away from Portland. And there's been rumors about Damian Lillard pursuing a trade. The pieces, they sort of do fit together.
As much as I'd love a wet dream scenario of Dame coming here, Kidd arriving with him is like falling out of bed and landing face first into a cactus.