Who is the next coach?

[Cellar-Door]

It could happen I guess, but I don't see her having a much of a chance or even want to.

I mean they didn't even seek any trade compensation for him.

She may not want to, sure, but a couple places (beyond Florio, Rapaport mentioned today that she was unhappy with him seeming to have a foot out the door, and when they met to discuss paths forward he wasn't having it) seem to have leaks from TEN that his flirting with the Patriots job openly was part of the reason he's gone.

In terms of compensation... yeah, she could have tried to hold him hostage, but a lot of the same things we talked about here for Belichick applied there too, sets you back, and in Vrabel's case... we might well have moved on then you're delaying your search or stuck with a guy who doesn't want to be there. There is a reason most coaches that got comp left their job first opening the job.

The Titans fired Vrable, what's to tamper with?

The potential tampering would have already happened, and been why the Vrabel and Kraft have mutual interest rumors started a couple weeks/months ago. That he got fired wouldn't have any more bearing than Brady and Payton not ending up in Miami had any bearing on their tampering investigation/punishment. The Patriots could sign him, but if it annoys Strunk enough that she complains, the league will start going though emails, texts, call-logs etc. And if they find anything they think is inappropriate they can impose a punishment.

 

[BaseballJones]

That doesn't take away from the fact that the Titans voluntarily fired him, he's free to do what he wants. Tampering is moot at that point

That makes no sense. If the Jets tampered with a Patriots player and that player indicated somehow (verbally or through behavior) that he was no longer interested in being a part of the Pats, and the Pats cut him, the Jets still would have tampered with the player.

 

[DJnVa]

The consipiracy is Kraft tampered with Vrabel when Vrabel spent the weekend here for his induction to the Pats HOF. "If we move on from Bill, are you interested?" type stuff.

What the reports said was not that Kraft tampered, but that when Vrabel was back in Tennessee he refused to say he wasn't interested in the job. That's it. At least so far.

 

[DJnVa]

FWIW, Vrabel apparently wanted full control in Tennessee but they hired a GM.

Not sure if that will be an issue here or not, if he's on the list.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Let's put it this way. If Strunk/Tenn files tampering charges, does anyone actually think the league *won't* investigate? And if they do, how confident are you that they *won't* find anything?

I think the league would love something like this as its essentially harmless and keeps the story going.

 

[DJnVa]

Let's put it this way. If Strunk/Tenn files tampering charges, does anyone actually think the league *won't* investigate? And if they do, how confident are you that they *won't* find anything?

I think the league would love something like this as its essentially harmless and keeps the story going.

I think we're at the point where if they come after Kraft again for stupid shit, he'll go scorched earth.

And again, the issue wasn't that Kraft tampered. It was Vrabel not "dispelling rumors".

 

[Cellar-Door]

Let's put it this way. If Strunk/Tenn files tampering charges, does anyone actually think the league *won't* investigate? And if they do, how confident are you that they *won't* find anything?

I think the league would love something like this as its essentially harmless and keeps the story going.

honestly the league SHOULD investigate if asked, that's their job. Now whether they find anything is about whether Kraft/Vrabel broke the rules. Now it could be as Ross seemed to imply when he got dinged, that teams break the rule all the time, but hey... nobody ever got out of a ticket by explaining that everybody else speeds.

Anyway, it's just another consideration, probably as much PR related as any significant punishment coming down.

I think we're at the point where if they come after Kraft again for stupid shit, he'll go scorched earth.

And again, the issue wasn't that Kraft tampered. It was Vrabel not "dispelling rumors".

We have no idea if that's all it was. We know that is what pissed off Strunk, what we don't know (and she may not know) is whether he didn't dispell rumors and wasn't interested in being there because someone had lead him to believe he could have the Patriots job if he was available or he was just hopeful that was the case. To her, Vrabel being quickly hired might increase her suspicions that Vrabel tried to get himself fired because Kraft had given indications, that would probably be enough to request and investigation.

 

[Curt S Loew]

In terms of compensation... yeah, she could have tried to hold him hostage, but a lot of the same things we talked about here for Belichick applied there too, sets you back, and in Vrabel's case... we might well have moved on then you're delaying your search or stuck with a guy who doesn't want to be there. There is a reason most coaches that got comp left their job first opening the job.


The potential tampering would have already happened, and been why the Vrabel and Kraft have mutual interest rumors started a couple weeks/months ago. That he got fired wouldn't have any more bearing than Brady and Payton not ending up in Miami had any bearing on their tampering investigation/punishment. The Patriots could sign him, but if it annoys Strunk enough that she complains, the league will start going though emails, texts, call-logs etc. And if they find anything they think is inappropriate they can impose a punishment.

In regards to compensation, I agree. I just think it weakens her tampering case.

She obviously didn't want the guy around. I don't think she'll be annoyed enough to complain if he goes somewhere else.

I just don't see it happening. But like I said, I guess it could.

 

[Kull]

Now whether they find anything is about whether Kraft/Vrabel broke the rules.

If we've learned anything when it comes to the NFL vs. the Pats, facts don't matter.

 

[BaseballJones]

If we've learned anything when it comes to the NFL vs. the Pats, facts don't matter.

This. But maybe less so without Brady or Belichick with the organization. But still...it wouldn't be too difficult to imagine a world where the NFL finds at least a little tampering of sorts by the Pats, and thus docks NE a draft pick. Maybe not a first, but at this point, any penalty would hurt.

 

[cshea]

Let's put it this way. If Strunk/Tenn files tampering charges, does anyone actually think the league *won't* investigate? And if they do, how confident are you that they *won't* find anything?

I think the league would love something like this as its essentially harmless and keeps the story going.

I don't think Kraft or Vrabel are dumb enough to have done this through electronic communication. Vrabel and Kraft spent the weekend together for the HoF ceremony. If anything was said, it was probably though an in person conversation. Vrabel sat in Kraft's box for the game. If he whispered or said soemthing during that time, how would anyone prove it?

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I don't think Kraft or Vrabel are dumb enough to have done this through electronic communication. Vrabel and Kraft spent the weekend together for the HoF ceremony. If anything was said, it was probably though an in person conversation. Vrabel sat in Kraft's box for the game. If he whispered or said soemthing during that time, how would anyone prove it?

I agree with you and yet if the Patriots hire Vrabel, will you be shocked if the NFL investigates them? The evidence doesn't matter. The facts don't either - its PR for the league. Tampering is good bad publicity and even better if its not clear-cut.

Maybe the dynasty finally being dead means the Patriots will be shown some mercy but I doubt it. The Patriots demise and all the arrows that come with it are delicious to the rest of the league. And the NFL knows this too - I don't think they have it out for the team or Kraft. However they will take any opportunity to stir up drama like this as it keeps people paying attention.

 

[lexrageorge]

If Kraft was dumb enough to openly discuss a future coaching position with the Patriots, then I have no problem with the league punishing the team or the owner. Such an action would be by far one of the dumbest things an NFL owner could do.

As noted, if there was a private conversation out of earshot everywhere else, it would still be dumb, but highly unlikely to be ever found out. Unless Kraft started telling people that "Vrabel could be an option for us next year; I'm sure he'd be interested".

My guess is that Strunk is just being NFL owner petty because Vrabel didn't "dispel rumors" that he had no part in creating in the first place.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Let's put it this way. If Strunk/Tenn files tampering charges, does anyone actually think the league *won't* investigate? And if they do, how confident are you that they *won't* find anything?

I think the league would love something like this as its essentially harmless and keeps the story going.

I think it would depend on what he proof was. Or her reasoning was.

I agree with everyone that if Kraft tampered, it could be trouble. But (a) I doubt he did, and (b) at the end of the day Tennessee has a problem. They fired him. It doesn't mean tampering didn't occur. But it does make it very hard to take the claim too seriously. It is very dumb tampering, if it occurred, because Vrabel was under contract. The Patriots had no control over that.

If the truth is that Vrabel forced his way out of Tennessee by making crazy unreasonable demands or something, then perhaps it does get some traction. But, in the end, they fired him.

It's going to be very hard to prove, and Tennessee starts in a pretty big hole.

 

[DJnVa]

Maybe the tampering can get its own thread---but we had the leak that the firing was, in part, due to Vrabel coming to NE. It seems weird that the source had that, but nothing like "The Tennessee owner is contemplating complaining to the NFL."

 

[Kull]

I agree with you and yet if the Patriots hire Vrabel, will you be shocked if the NFL investigates them?

As C-D reminds us, the Pats don't have to hire Vrabel. If Strunk requests one, the investigation will be off and running.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

If Kraft was dumb enough to openly discuss a future coaching position with the Patriots, then I have no problem with the league punishing the team or the owner. Such an action would be by far one of the dumbest things an NFL owner could do.

As noted, if there was a private conversation out of earshot everywhere else, it would still be dumb, but highly unlikely to be ever found out. Unless Kraft started telling people that "Vrabel could be an option for us next year; I'm sure he'd be interested".

My guess is that Strunk is just being NFL owner petty because Vrabel didn't "dispel rumors" that he had no part in creating in the first place.

It would also be hugely disrespectful to BB.

 

[BaseballJones]

I think it would depend on what he proof was. Or her reasoning was.

I agree with everyone that if Kraft tampered, it could be trouble. But (a) I doubt he did, and (b) at the end of the day Tennessee has a problem. They fired him. It doesn't mean tampering didn't occur. But it does make it very hard to take the claim too seriously. It is very dumb tampering, if it occurred, because Vrabel was under contract. The Patriots had no control over that.

If the truth is that Vrabel forced his way out of Tennessee by making crazy unreasonable demands or something, then perhaps it does get some traction. But, in the end, they fired him.

It's going to be very hard to prove, and Tennessee starts in a pretty big hole.

Every tampering in the NFL happens with a player or coach is under contract. That's why it's tampering.

EDIT: I guess technically there can be tampering with a free agent if it's in the non-free agent period of the calendar. But if a team claims you're tampering with one of their players or coaches, it is because by definition that player or coach is under contract with that team.

 

[Justthetippett]

If we've learned anything when it comes to the NFL vs. the Pats, facts don't matter.

I'd love to be "just another team" when it comes to this at least. Didn't 4-13 dispel everyone's professional jealousy?

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Every tampering in the NFL happens with a player or coach is under contract. That's why it's tampering.

EDIT: I guess technically there can be tampering with a free agent if it's in the non-free agent period of the calendar. But if a team claims you're tampering with one of their players or coaches, it is because by definition that player or coach is under contract with that team.

I thought it was clear from the context of my post that I was talking about 2024, but, anyway, that was my point.

It is surely possible that Kraft tampered with Vrabel. But it's not believable because there is nothing that Vrabel or Kraft could do that would make it possible for Vrabel to come to the Patriots until 2026. If the Titans' theory is that Kraft, knowing he would part ways with Belichick 2 months later, put out feelers with Vrabel about his interest in the job, it's a dumb theory. (Again, doesn't mean it didn't happen, but my point is that the Titans start in a hole because it's unbelievable.) There was no possibility of Vrabel being able to do that until the Titans fired him. The Dolphins were found guilty of a tampering with Brady and Sean Payton in a context where there was actually a possibility of those guys joining the Dolphins in very short order.

The tampering theory against Kraft would turn on the premise that he is psychic and knew what the Titans were going to do, and has the fundamental problem that the Titans were in control of the situation but chose to fire him.

 

[WayneHousieHOF]

I know the organization loves Mayo, but at this point, it's probably time to just clean house. If the best thing for all was for iBill to go, then the connections to that old regime should go, too. Mayo may very well end up a great NFL coach, but it shouldn't be in NE.

 

[Marciano490]

Seems odd to fire the master to hire the unproven pupil, especially when none of the master’s others pupils have become masters themselves. I’m sure Mayo is very smart and hardworking, but I’d prefer offense and someone with more proven upside.

Obviously the problem with getting rid of the goat is that the next guy is definitionally going to be weaker.

 

[joe dokes]

I know the organization loves Mayo, but at this point, it's probably time to just clean house. If the best thing for all was for iBill to go, then the connections to that old regime should go, too. Mayo may very well end up a great NFL coach, but it shouldn't be in NE.

Why do you say it "shouldn't be"?

 

[joe dokes]

Seems odd to fire the master to hire the unproven pupil, especially when none of the master’s others pupils have become masters themselves. I’m sure Mayo is very smart and hardworking, but I’d prefer offense and someone with more proven upside.

Obviously the problem with getting rid of the goat is that the next guy is definitionally going to be weaker.

So pupil Vrabel is out, in your view?

 

[WayneHousieHOF]

Why do you say it "shouldn't be"?

Im saying they need to let Mayo walk, too. Let him go find a job elsewhere, and maybe someday he'll become a great NFL but it shouldnt be in NE. If you're parting ways with Bill, then you should part ways with the old regime. And Mayo is part of that regime/culture. Once the decision was made to move on from Bill, then it's just time to clean house.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Seems odd to fire the master to hire the unproven pupil, especially when none of the master’s others pupils have become masters themselves. I’m sure Mayo is very smart and hardworking, but I’d prefer offense and someone with more proven upside.

Obviously the problem with getting rid of the goat is that the next guy is definitionally going to be weaker.

In a way maybe, but thye also wouldn't be hiring him for the same job. A lot of the reason Bill is getting fired is his GM work, not his coaching.

 

[RobertsSteal]

My assumption here is that the Pats are a stable organization and won't Geno / Darnold / Wilson their QB. Of course, that could end up being untrue.

I hope so, too. But recent history isn’t trending in that direction. As other posters have suggested, it would be great to see the Krafts do a meaningful search for a qualified GM, then coordinate a search for a coach who is ready to lead this team in this iteration of the league.

I worry that Mayo and, to a slightly lesser extent Vrabel, might be attempts at replicating/continuing The Patriot Way™️ in the Belichikian mold. Bill is a legend. Expecting anyone to duplicate his model successfully seems foolhardy.

 

[Marciano490]

So pupil Vrabel is out, in your view?

Oddly, the coaches who only played under him - Vrabel and KOC - seem to have more success than the coaches who learned under him have had head coaching - Josh, Patricia, Crennel, Weis, BOB.

 

[joe dokes]

Im saying they need to let Mayo walk, too. Let him go find a job elsewhere, and maybe someday he'll become a great NFL but it shouldnt be in NE. If you're parting ways with Bill, then you should part ways with the old regime. And Mayo is part of that regime/culture. Once the decision was made to move on from Bill, then it's just time to clean house.

But if he's going to be a great NFL coach (lets assume for the sake of it that Kraft thinks so too), why shouldn't it be in NE? I get that hiring a guy based solely on being a BB guy isn't the way to go. But if they legitimately think he's going to be a great coach, then why not? The comentary on Mayo is far from extensive, but it describes his personality in ways that are drastically different than Belichick.
I get there may be football reasons not to hire Mayo. (I am not qualified to say one way or the other on that). But "cleaning house means CLEANING HOUSE" seems sort of poorly thought out. It doesn't extend to players like Judon, Barmore or Duggar, I presume? Or Andrews or Stevenson?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Oddly, the coaches who only played under him - Vrabel and KOC - seem to have more success than the coaches who learned under him have had head coaching - Josh, Patricia, Crennel, Weis, BOB.

Vrabel is a BOB tree guy, and has had basically the same (or maybe a bit less) success.
KOC is interesting, he worked for a few differnt guys, but I'd probably say he's a Jay Gruden tree guy.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Giving the impression that Mayo was, to some degree, being "groomed" and watching him turn down the chance to interview for HC jobs elsewhere last off-season, only to then say, "Sorry! We're 'cleaning house'!" would be super lame. Mayo seems to me to be a good hybrid choice - "of" the system but different from it.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Confession: Whenever I see or hear discussion about coaching "trees," I tune it out. I'm never quite sure what it means or what the branches are. I don't really know who is in whose tree -- certainly as it pertains to other teams and even for the Patriots. Like, I know that Brian Flores was a scout and then held various coaching positions with the Patriots. I know the other guys that worked with him. So, I mean, I'm aware of understanding the various branches as they pertain to the Patriots. But that's as far as I go in understanding the relevance.

Not having my favorite team need a coach for 24 years has meant that I don't have to think about it. Over the next week or however long it takes, I'm kind of interested like everyone else in following along. Do I need to know about trees? It seems like kind of an interesting message board kind of thing to talk about, or for tv, but it's not actually a thing that people hiring coaches care about, is it? Other than to sort of say it's another way to say "resume"?

 

[WayneHousieHOF]

But if he's going to be a great NFL coach (lets assume for the sake of it that Kraft thinks so too), why shouldn't it be in NE? I get that hiring a guy based solely on being a BB guy isn't the way to go. But if they legitimately think he's going to be a great coach, then why not? The comentary on Mayo is far from extensive, but it describes his personality in ways that are drastically different than Belichick.
I get there may be football reasons not to hire Mayo. (I am not qualified to say one way or the other on that). But "cleaning house means CLEANING HOUSE" seems sort of poorly thought out. It doesn't extend to players like Judon, Barmore or Duggar, I presume? Or Andrews or Stevenson?

Im talking the coaching staff. And who knows if Mayo will be a great coach or not, He could end up being the next Campo or North. Guess we'll find out one day, but it's irrelevant, really. If youre moving on from Bill, you're moving on from not just the coach, but the culture, the regime. And if you are part of that coaching culture, then you need to go, too.

 

[worm0082]

It’s obvious View attachment IMG_1149.webp

 

[joe dokes]

Im talking the coaching staff. And who knows if Mayo will be a great coach or not, He could end up being the next Campo or North. Guess we'll find out one day, but it's irrelevant, really. If youre moving on from Bill, you're moving on from not just the coach, but the culture, the regime. And if you are part of that coaching culture, then you need to go, too.

You're the one who said "maybe he'll be a great NFL coach but it shouldn't be in NE." Maybe I'm hung up on "shoudn't." I guess I think "because he coached here when BB did" is not a good reason to hire him OR fire him. I think its obvious that I'm assuming that he has his own ideas on how to do things. Again, the descriptions of him suggest he does. Will he be good? HellifIknow. But again, *not* considering someone who Krafts seem to think very highly of -- based on their reported past actions -- just to pay service to "cleaning house" is a bad way to run a franchise.

 

[WayneHousieHOF]

You're the one who said "maybe he'll be a great NFL coach but it shouldn't be in NE." Maybe I'm hung up on "shoudn't." I guess I think "because he coached here when BB did" is not a good reason to hire him OR fire him. I think its obvious that I'm assuming that he has his own ideas on how to do things. Again, the descriptions of him suggest he does. Will he be good? HellifIknow. But again, *not* considering someone who Krafts seem to think very highly of -- based on their reported past actions -- just to pay service to "cleaning house" is a bad way to run a franchise.

I think you're hung up on shouldn't - but thats more because it was poor word choice on my part. My bad there. ... I just think that once a decision is made to part ways with Bill, then I think it's also time to completely change the culture. Bring in someone from the outside, someone with no real connection to how things were run (however they were run) inside the building. Just my opinion, and I know it's an unpopular one, which is also fine.

 

[rodderick]

Imagine getting hired to coach the Patriots and immediately having to walk into BBs office and realizing you're replacing the greatest coach ever. Immediate regret

Whoever takes over better have thick skin.

These guys are all nuts, they aren't wired like us. Whoever sits on that chair will do so with full confidence they can do a better job than Bill.

 

[joe dokes]

I think you're hung up on shouldn't - but thats more because it was poor word choice on my part. My bad there. ... I just think that once a decision is made to part ways with Bill, then I think it's also time to completely change the culture. Bring in someone from the outside, someone with no real connection to how things were run (however they were run) inside the building. Just my opinion, and I know it's an unpopular one, which is also fine.

Its not an unreasonable opinion. (I'm not even sure its unpopular.) I just dont want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are some "culture" things that are probably worth keeping. It's not like they're moving on from Bobby Valentine here. If it is Mayo, I would hope that he's learned not just from BB, but by watching say, Patricia or Mangini "act like" BB from the get go as HC -- non starters for players no matter how good the ideas they might have.

 

[WayneHousieHOF]

Its not an unreasonable opinion. (I'm not even sure its unpopular.) I just dont want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are some "culture" things that are probably worth keeping. It's not like they're moving on from Bobby Valentine here. If it is Mayo, I would hope that he's learned not just from BB, but by watching say, Patricia or Mangini "act like" BB from the get go as HC -- non starters for players no matter how good the ideas they might have.

Some good points here.

 

[54thMA]

I don't want O'Brien, Vrabel, Flores or least of all Mayo.

Bring in a new voice, a fresh face, someone who is a young up and coming offensive minded coach who understands how the game is played in 2024.

Defense was not the problem this year, a totally inept offense was the culprit.

I'll fully admit I'm not as well versed as some of the other members are as to who would fit that profile, so I'll defer to others here.

A bright young offensive mind is what this team desperately needs.

And for the love of Christ, no more "Who the Hell is this guy?" draft picks please as well.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

If Vrabel wanted full control in TN and Kraft is saying there will be a GM hired along with an HC then does Vrabel to the Pats make sense?

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1745588132043542889

 

[jsinger121]

View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1745588132043542889

They still need to go through a real process including interviewing two external minority candidates. One will probably be Flores as a sham interview because they know him.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Ok, either Rapoport is wrong or I really need a primer on the Rooney Rule. Or ‘hiring process’ is doing a lot of work and that really just means they don’t need to negotiate a new contract with Mayo if they hire him.

 

[Salem's Lot]

I don’t get why they would still have to interview 2 minority candidates when they are actually hiring a minority head coach.

 

[soxhop411]

They still need to go through a real process including interviewing two external minority candidates. One will probably be Flores as a sham interview because they know him.

Ok, either Rapoport is wrong or I really need a primer on the Rooney Rule. Or ‘hiring process’ is doing a lot of work and that really just means they don’t need to negotiate a new contract with Mayo if they hire him.

I don’t get why they would still have to interview 2 minority candidates when they are actually hiring a minority head coach.

He clarifies
View: https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1745589935027958146

Simply, the #Patriots created a succession plan -- Jerod Mayo. There is precedent: The #Ravens did it with GM Eric DeCosta, the #Colts did it with Tony Dungy, and the #Seahawks did it with Jim Mo

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Still not entirely clear to me. Is he claiming that if you have a clear succession plan that has been previously communicated to the league, and hire that candidate, you do not need to go through the Rooney rule's requirements? That's kind of weird.

Interestingly, if they do not elevate Mayo, and he ends up getting an HC position at another club, the Patriots would, I believe, receive third round comp picks for 2 years.

 

[cshea]

So it’s in Mayo’s contract that he is the next HC? Only way out would be to fire him?

 

[BaseballJones]

Im talking the coaching staff. And who knows if Mayo will be a great coach or not, He could end up being the next Campo or North. Guess we'll find out one day, but it's irrelevant, really. If youre moving on from Bill, you're moving on from not just the coach, but the culture, the regime. And if you are part of that coaching culture, then you need to go, too.

What if the culture is excellent, but the task was just too much for BB anymore without having a GM, and as RKK explained it’s just too messy to do that here, so hiring Mayo and a GM would make sense.

 

[amfox1]

Still not entirely clear to me. Is he claiming that if you have a clear succession plan that has been previously communicated to the league, and hire that candidate, you do not need to go through the Rooney rule's requirements? That's kind of weird.

Interestingly, if they do not elevate Mayo, and he ends up getting an HC position at another club, the Patriots would, I believe, receive third round comp picks for 2 years.

Yes. “Under Rooney Rule protocol, when a Club has established a firm succession plan that involves an internal coach or executive replacing a departing Head Coach or General Manager, no external search is required.”