Reyes is 30 years old and having a career year to get that 98 OPS+. He’s a replacement level player at best. Urias has been exponentially better in his career.
The Boston Fucking Red Sox better be able to find someone better than Pablo Reyes.
What was Bloom's best acquisition?
- Thread starter Ale Xander
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The Boston Fucking Red Sox better be able to find someone better than Pablo Reyes.
To be fair, "stinks" was a bit strong. That said, Reyes is not going to be the starting 2B going into 2024. I can see a scenario where he's the back-up MI behind Story and pick-your-2B, but that's as high on the depth chart as you want him to be barring multiple injuries.
I think people have an elevated opinion of Reyes for the same reason people were fawning over Yu Chang and his 45 OPS+ earlier in the season. He's an upgrade over the crap they were running out there before him. Chang was, at least defensively, an upgrade to Kike. Reyes has performed better than Arroyo, which for 2023 was a pretty low bar to clear. Urias is a better bet to be better than Reyes moving forward. And it's entirely within the realm of possibility that the new GM/CBO will upgrade over Urias.
There's also a pretty good chance Yorke isn't better than Urias or Valdez. Valdez destroyed AA pitching and has struggled to adjust to major league pitching. Urias was worth 3.3 and 3.1 bWAR (2.1 and 2.3 fWAR) in back-to-back seasons (not only that, but he was 23 and 24 years-old) before blowing out his hamstring. Either of those marks would have made him the second most-valuable position player for the Sox after Devers and in line with Duran and Verdugo this season. He's had a brutal season, no doubt, but he's barely had a chance to play. if he appears in 15 more games, that would only make it 62 on the season.
Yorke is very young for AA, but the numbers are not eye-popping. 271/353/441 at AA is not particularly impressive. His wrc+ is about equivalent to Meidroth, who is getting on base more and has little power to speak of. Neither of them are sure things, is just my point. I wouldn't pencil them in, and Urias is a big-leaguer with an actual track record of success.
If someone better comes along who they'd like to trade for or sign, I don't think Yorke, Valdez, or Urias should hold them back, regardless.
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Danny Ainge has talked about the two stages in building a franchise — collecting assets and then competing to win — and it’s pretty clear that Bloom was operating under the assumption that the Sox are in the former while ownership wants the team moving (and doesn’t trust Bloom to be leading) into the latter.
This might not be the article @jbupstate has in mind, but it does have quotes from Bloom about being focused on incremental improvements in contrast to big free agent splashes: https://www.bostonherald.com/2022/03/16/chaim-bloom-red-sox-now-in-better-position-to-trade-prospects-for-big-league-talent/
Kinda wild- that article is from March 22. Did they really make any significant trades of prospects for big league talent in the 18 months that followed? If not- why? Hard to imagine they never found a match.
I think it displays how much the Bloom superfans prefer the potential of things over actual results and production at the major league level.
Schwarber isn't a negative WAR player, though. He's been more valuable than Yoshida by fWAR, actually.
The whole Schwarber argument seems odd to me. That seems like one that Bloom played perfectly. Got him for a pennant run and then didn’t overreact by signing him to a shitty contract afterward. I loved Schwarber and wanted him back, but that would have been the wrong move.
It amazes me how many people continue to willfully ignore Price being stapled to Betts when they talk about that trade.
Just stating an observation. I’m not trying to start an argument if that’s what you’re getting at.
I do find it a bit odd that the biggest fans of Bloom and his tenure speak more of what can be rather than what is. First it was “we’re setting up for 23” then it was 24. And we’re counting a lot on prospects when historically prospects flame out at a very high rate. Yet Bloom held them like they were gold bars.
I’ve seen DD get dragged about leaving the cupboard bare, but the best young talent on the major league roster in Bello and Casas were DD picks yet I’ve seen multiple posts the last two days give Bloom credit for them. Additionally, who are the prospects that DD traded that have come back to haunt us? Seems like Dombrowski knew who to trade and honestly I think that’s a huge part of the job.
I’m glad the farm system has improved, but I’m disappointed the big league club isn’t playing meaningful baseball in September again.
I was never the biggest Bloom fan but I figured he’d get another year to see if his plan would work or not. So I’m a bit surprised he was fired.
Edit: this makes me sound like a DD fanboy. I think he deserved to be fired for the Sale extension alone, but I think he’s a bit unfairly maligned because he didn’t run the team like a lot of posters here would have.
I’ve seen folks who weren’t on board with Bloom referred to as “whiner liners” and being like Shaughnessy so I guess it cuts both ways.
Right, DD left the cupboard bare but what mistakes did he make on the trade front? Zero from my perspective. The glaring mistake he made was the Sale contract. That is unforgivable IMO. I wrote as much the second the deal was inked. But that was basically his only glaring mistake IMO.
You made a post specific to those who responded to this thread. Not one person said that they thought Yoshida was Bloom's best acquisition and you took the opportunity to paint everyone as "Bloom superfans". It would really be nice to have a thread that doesn't devolve into the Bloomer/Never Bloomer bullshit that litters so many other threads. Read what you posted and tell me that I'm wrong.
But this thread didn't cut in any particular way until YOU pulled out the knife.
Call those who responded what you will, but your view specific to this thread is warped. You've no earthly idea what everyone's stance is. As far as I gather from your words we're all like minded for not mentioning Yoshida.
Yeah, me too.
Yoshida has a wRC+ of around 112, but it has fallen sharply since his excellent first half. There are indications that he got a bit worn down, which makes some sense given the the longer season, the outdoor stadiums, the more-rigorous travel, the jet lag and the playing in a major tournament ten time zones away in the spring right before the season.
OPS by month: .832, .962, .742, .844, .640, .645.
First half Yoshida is a pretty nice player, and hopefully the team and Masa can make adjustments to keep that guy around for a whole season. It doesn't look to me (watching the games) that the league has adjusted to him in some insurmountable way.
Yeah, I definitely don't think it's projecting as some huge mistake or something (especially if it helps get Yamamoto), but at this point it's a pretty neutral proposition, so it makes a lot of sense not to call it his "best acquisition"...& isn't really an indicator of whatever odd shade that was.
I mean, sure, but calling some guy in AA his best acquisition when the failure rate of prospects is really high is also strange no? That’s really what I was getting at. Guys who’ve made 0 contribution to the big league roster and maybe never will are highlighted as the best acquisitions versus a guy who was really good for a good chunk of the season.
Prospect failure rates are high. The failure rates of 19 y/o players who are + defenders in CF & hit as well as Anthony does in AA are probably pretty close to 0.
But even if I was going to name only major league things, Yoshida would probably be like 7th. & I really like him.
But I'll go ahead & call my shot that Roman will be his best acquisition, even though he obviously hasn't proven that, yet, but I'm pretty sure that wasn't a requirement in the question posed.
I think there's a lot to be excited about in the org... otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time posting about it every day in the MiLB forum.
But I'm still ok with moving on from Bloom. I just hope they hire someone who will not neglect the player development system.
This discussion shows exactly why Bloom isn't here anymore. After 4 years on the job, his best moves are tinkering on the edges and filling in gaps on positive value trades.
Getting a 2 WAR guy on the cheap or turning a 1 WAR guy into a 2-3 WAR guy is great (and what we want a GM to do!), but that alone isn't going to get it done for a big market team.
It's entirely possible he was just playing the hand he was dealt from ownership, we'll probably never know all the details. But it's amazing his best moves are so relatively low impact.
Let's hope over the next 4 years, the new GM has some more impactful moves we can evaluate.
As to the actual question, I suppose I'll say Yoshida and hope his 1st half is a better representation of what to expect over the next few years.
Getting a 2 WAR guy on the cheap or turning a 1 WAR guy into a 2-3 WAR guy is great (and what we want a GM to do!), but that alone isn't going to get it done for a big market team.
It's entirely possible he was just playing the hand he was dealt from ownership, we'll probably never know all the details. But it's amazing his best moves are so relatively low impact.
Let's hope over the next 4 years, the new GM has some more impactful moves we can evaluate.
As to the actual question, I suppose I'll say Yoshida and hope his 1st half is a better representation of what to expect over the next few years.
Pretty dependent on your definition of "failure." If its fail to make the majors, then yeah its a pretty low risk for a guy like Anthony. If it means being a good player that you're happy you planned around, there is a pretty significant risk. Tons of examples of incredibly highly regarded young prospects who had success at young ages in the minors who never became even average regulars.
If we look at Xander's SS prospect grouping (Profar, Machado, X, and Sano). Jurickson Profar was a unanimous top prospect for two years in a row and is now 32 and has exactly one 2 WAR season which took him 7 MLB season and three teams to achieve. He posted a 280/370/450 line at 19 years old over 500 PAs in AA showing possible 60 defense at short. Sano was a consistent top 10 guy and couldnt even stick at third and never really learned to hit major league pitching. Roman has more defensive ability, but even a guy like Profar who was supposed to be a plus defensive SS who had a full season of elite offensive numbers at AA at 19 ended up being a journeyman. If that's not a failure, then I'd agree the risk is pretty miniscule that you get much worse than that, but if youre planning around the guy, thats an objectively pretty bad outcome.
Building around any one prospect is always silly, yeah.
& agree that Profar didn't work out great. He's only 30, though, according to Fangraphs (not that it changes your general point).
But I also think the industry has generally gotten smarter & there are less high profile failures than 13 years ago. That could be anecdotal on my part, though.
It is so difficult to choose but a single tune from Chaim’s Basement Tapes. Ultimately, Zack Littell’s overnight travel bag is narrowly edged by the Post-it note from Hoy Jun Park’s physical.
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Woops either did math wrong or fat fingered the age.
It would be interesting to see if the industry has gotten smarter. Anecdotally, it seems slightly better, but theres still tons of guys who are disappointments or have one or two good years (e.g. our own AB and Moncada). Its hard to know, partially because you're always working on like a 5 year lag to see what the top guys actually do as major leaguers.
The broader point is there is a lot of unrealistic expectations (not necessarily saying you), just broadly as to what a realistic outcome is for a top 20 guy say. Yankees fans were rightfully disappointed in Sanchez, but they also speak of Torres being a bust. Torres is a realistically decent outcome (solid average regular to perhaps a bit better); he's just not a star. Necessarily, most top 20/30 prospects will not become stars.
Based on a couple huge years, Moncada seems to mostly be a health issue, which can of course inflict anyone.
But yeah, it's always safer to temper expectations. Maybe it's damning of Bloom that I expect Roman to provide more surplus value than any of the other acquisitions. Possibly Abreu/Valdez, but that requires projection, too.
The problem with Dombrowski was that at the end of 2019 the only prospects with real potential were in the FCL and the DSL. A system that can say that is a system that’s been stripmined.
Agree completely. Four years and not a single, slam dunk, really high impact move. Hell some of the answers here are mentioning guys who have barely left the minors.
Don’t want to speak ill of the departed, but so glad you and radsoxfan called this out.
And yes, probably Yoshida. But I wish that signature deal was for a front line SP, and not another defensively challenged future DH. Really cornered the market there, and on fragile back end starters as well.
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Thanks for cherry picking my comment. You left out the entire second half, which includes "as a backup or temporary fill-in.....". If you're going to quote me, give the ENTIRE quote for context next time.
Hernandez version 2021 was the perfect move for a team on a soft rebuild that needed everything to break right. Squeezed 4 fWAR out of him and threw him in the right spot on the field.
Springs for Sam Travis could have been his best move, but this was another situation (like with Brasier, Diekman, Martin Perez, Joel Payamps etc) where the coaching staff just could not get guys to unlock their potential in Boston.
Springs for Sam Travis could have been his best move, but this was another situation (like with Brasier, Diekman, Martin Perez, Joel Payamps etc) where the coaching staff just could not get guys to unlock their potential in Boston.
It’s been mentioned, but man, comparing Chaim’s best moves to Theo’s, Ben’s, or DD’s is flat out depressing. We could probably name a half dozen for each of those guys off the top of our head that would get zero pushback.
Sure it was not a deep system on that we can agree, but if you look at 2019 wasn’t Cherington just as guilty for that?
I would argue they already spent on a 2B. Our now-fired Mr. Bloom, in his infinite wisdom, still believes he can play shortstop though.
I'll make one last, hopefully better, attempt and move on. The "everyone else is doing it" reasoning is IMO poor. The snark in the remainder of the post seems to convey that you're totally OK with that being the norm here. That's your prerogative.
You think Story can't play SS? He's been their best defensive SS this year and it's not particularly close.
Of the players who have at least 10 innings at SS this year, by Defensive Runs Saved:
Story +4 (215 innings)
Chang +2 (256 innings)
Reyes +1 (193 innings)
Hamilton 0 (89 innings)
Rafaela 0 (37 innings)
Arroyo -1 (23 innings)
Kike -6 (484 innings)
By UZR:
Story +2.1
Chang +1.8
Hamilton +0.6
Arroyo 0.0
Reyes -0.1
Rafaela -0.6
Kike -5.0
By Total Zone:
Story +5
Chang +1
Reyes 0
Hamilton 0
Arroyo 0
Rafaela -1
Kike -3
To put it in further context, Story is currently 13th in Total Zone and DRS, and 12th in UZR among SS in the entire league despite the reduced playing time this season.
Bottom line is he can still play short, and do it well.
I don’t think the attacking is appropriate in either direction. I admitted earlier that starting with “Bloom Superfans” was probably not smart as it probably put people on the defensive. But I still stand by my observation that it’s interesting that many of the players highlighted were prospects or guys who might be deemed valuable if they rebound to earlier numbers like Urias. It’s more about potential and value than results at the major league level.
And ultimately it’s why Bloom is no longer employed by the Red Sox because the owners feel he didn’t do enough at the ML level.
My “snark” at the end was more about threads just naturally going off topic here consistently. It wasn’t about posters attacking each other.
@Seels did not think Bloom made a single decent acquisition. According to him, every deal Chaim did was atrocious and a joke. In his opinion, Chaim Bloom was the worst Baseball Ops/GM in Red Sox history in the non Pinky Higgins division I happen to vehemently disagree with that opinion.
I happen to think Abreu and Valdez for two months of Vazquez will turn out to be one of his better deals. McGuire for the corpse of Diekman is probably a close second though. Despite his faults, Nick Pivetta has been very useful the past few years and was integral to the 2021 team. Overall, I think Bloom did more good than bad and in a few years( perhaps as soon as next year) his reign will be seen in a more positive light.
My bad, I was confusing Schwarber at 0.4 WAR and another anti Bloom darling Renfroe at -0.4 WAR.
I think one of Bloom’s absolute best moves was not signing Schwarber.