Verdugo is Gold Glove finalist

[E5 Yaz]

Oddly enough, the lone Red Sox finalist

RIGHT FIELD
Adolis García, TEX
Kyle Tucker, HOU
Alex Verdugo, BOS
Tucker is the reigning Gold Glover in right field in the AL, but both Verdugo and García have strong cases to win their first career Gold Glove Award. Verdugo led AL right fielders with 9 Defensive Runs Saved this season, and García was third with 7 DRS and had the most valuable throwing arm of any AL outfielder, according to Statcast.

https://www.mlb.com/news/2023-gold-glove-awards-finalists

 

[Ale Xander]

we didn’t have any infielders that are finalists for GG?

/ducks

 

[mwonow]

Good luck, Dugie! Rooting for you! Not just because trade value. (but partially because trade value)

 

[joe dokes]

we didn’t have any infielders that are finalists for GG?

/ducks

Golden Gloves, perhaps. Explains why they had so much trouble with grounders.

 

[JM3]

Golden Gloves, perhaps. Explains why they had so much trouble with grounders.
View attachment 72681

& the throwing if they wore both of them.

He was by far their best defender who played more than 43 games. Nice little recognition.

 

[brandonchristensen]

we didn’t have any infielders that are finalists for GG?

/ducks

Kike was nominated in the NL.

 

[Bergs]

we didn’t have any infielders that are finalists for GG?

/ducks

If we had actual water fowl playing SS and 3B the first half of the season, we may have made the playoffs.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

If we had actual water fowl playing SS and 3B the first half of the season, we may have made the playoffs.

I’m sure the new CBO will make sure we goose the defense going forward

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Good luck, Dugie! Rooting for you! Not just because trade value. (but partially because trade value)

Solely because of trade value. He's a thoroughly mediocre-to-average player; if a popularity contest-style award adds to his value, then I'm all for it.

 

[Van Everyman]

He should’ve been an All Star.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

He should’ve been an All Star.

OPS+ of 100 for the season.

If he felt he should have been an All Star he certainly reacted poorly to the snub.

 

[Van Everyman]

Now do that for where he was at at the All Star break.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Oh no doubt, his numbers were excellent at the break and I thought he would have been a reasonable choice.

It's what he did afterwards that is the problem.

I am not a fan of this guy. He's too meh in too many things. I fully expect him to be moved this offseason as the Sox desperately need an upgrade at corner OF.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Oh no doubt, his numbers were excellent at the break and I thought he would have been a reasonable choice.

It's what he did afterwards that is the problem.

I am not a fan of this guy. He's too meh in too many things. I fully expect him to be moved this offseason as the Sox desperately need an upgrade at corner OF.

Maybe, but it’s really difficult to upgrade areas that are already average or better.

 

[bosockboy]

Maybe, but it’s really difficult to upgrade areas that are already average or better.

Right, and would dent the farm system to do it. And those resources are needed for pitching upgrades.

 

[joe dokes]

Right, and would dent the farm system to do it. And those resources are needed for pitching upgrades.

It's possible they think Abreu can be 90% or more of Verdugo now (and maybe more after) and that they can use Verdugo as a chip to improve elsewhere.

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

I'm glad for Verdugo and hope he sneaks out a win.

It appears (I was about to write "it is true", but what do I really know) that he behaved petulantly in the second half of the season and allowed his contract situtation to affect his hustle and his relationship with Cora. And that's a shame, because previously he struck me as a likable player who was admired by his teammates.

However, it's undeniable that he worked hard on his defense in the offense in the off-season, and arrived with the 2023 Red Sox as a substantially better fielder than when 2022 ended. He deserves respect for that. I'm hoping some of his teammates take that challenge on this winter, with similar results.

 

[kazuneko]

Maybe, but it’s really difficult to upgrade areas that are already average or better.

And it’s really challenging to improve the team’s defense (it’s biggest problem in 23) while trading the team’s best defensive player. So yeah, I honestly don’t understand the push to trade Dugie.
His solidly average bat is fine, and his glove in RF is exactly what we need. With Fenway’s RF and the teams dearth of good fielders, Dugie is far more valuable to us than any other team, so I’m not sure how his average bat on a fairly expensive one year deal leads to much of a return.
And I really don’t give a crap that he was late a couple of times..

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

And it’s really challenging to improve the team’s defense (it’s biggest problem in 23) while trading the team’s best defensive player. So yeah, I honestly don’t understand the push to trade Dugie.
His solidly average bat is fine, and his glove in RF is exactly what we need. With Fenway’s RF and the teams dearth of good fielders, Dugie is far more valuable to us than any other team, so I’m not sure how his average bat on a fairly expensive one year deal leads to much of a return.
And I really don’t give a crap that he was late a couple of times..

His bat is not fine for a corner OFer. He has zero power. He remains a dunderhead on the basepaths. His attitude is apparently terrible given he's gotten benchings in each of the past two years.

100 OPS+ is not good enough.

 

[JM3]

His bat is not fine for a corner OFer. He has zero power. He remains a dunderhead on the basepaths. His attitude is apparently terrible given he's gotten benchings in each of the past two years.

100 OPS+ is not good enough.

Verdugo was 3rd on the team among hitters in fWAR behind Devers & Duran, and 2nd on the team in bWAR behind only Devers. He & Cora may not be able to mesh, but on the field he was almost the least of our problems. Because defense does matter - even if it's hard to quantify.

That's not to say we shouldn't be looking to upgrade or utilize him to upgrade somewhere else. We should be doing that with literally everyone at all times.

 

[kazuneko]

His bat is not fine for a corner OFer. He has zero power. He remains a dunderhead on the basepaths. His attitude is apparently terrible given he's gotten benchings in each of the past two years.

100 OPS+ is not good enough.

The team’s offense can improve in other ways.
With the Sox’s current collection of horrible fielders, you can’t trade the team’s best defender.
It’s going to be hard enough to improve on that side of the ball even without trading Dugie…

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Verdugo was 3rd on the team among hitters in fWAR behind Devers & Duran, and 2nd on the team in bWAR behind only Devers. He & Cora may not be able to mesh, but on the field he was almost the least of our problems. Because defense does matter.

He's 4th on the team in BWar, on a team that won 78 games. That's absolutely nothing to hang one's hat on.

He was in fact part of the team's problems IMO because his defense was negated in large part due to his total lack of power from a traditional power spot in the lineup and because of his horrible baserunning. His dreadful second half was also a big impediment.

I think it's time for both sides to move on and give him a change of scenery. Both the team and the player will benefit from that.

 

[JM3]

He's 4th on the team in BWar, on a team that won 78 games. That's absolutely nothing to hang one's hat on.

He was in fact part of the team's problems IMO because his defense was negated in large part due to his total lack of power from a traditional power spot in the lineup and because of his horrible baserunning. His dreadful second half was also a big impediment.

I think it's time for both sides to move on and give him a change of scenery. Both the team and the player will benefit from that.

Pretty amazing that Chris Martin was 2nd on the team in bWAR.

It's not really something to hang one's hat on, but if we're only hat-hanging 3 dudes, that means we have to replace 23+ others. But like I said in the rest of what I added in, I'm fine moving him if we can get a decent return. We have to put out a better defense next year than we did this year, though, because it has such a huge domino effect on the pitching staff.

 

[Fishy1]

Maybe, but it’s really difficult to upgrade areas that are already average or better.

Right, and would dent the farm system to do it. And those resources are needed for pitching upgrades.

I'm with @Smiling Joe Hesketh on this one, but I don't think the solution is necessarily to trade Verdugo.

This is what's tough: nearly all positions project to be average or so. Verdugo, Duran, Urias, Wong, Casas, even Yoshida -- these are all guys who are projected to be worth around a couple wins. That's how we ended up being an about average team.

We discussed this earlier in the offseason, but they need a few guys who are 4 win+ players, because right now, Story and Devers are the only guys with a track record of putting up really big seasons, and Story carries major question marks. While I think there's a good chance Story and Devers are both 4+ win players next year, Abreu shows out, and Urias steps up and becomes a 3 win guy again, I also feel they do have to upgrade somewhere. The defensive issues may be treated by a full year of Story at SS and plugging Ceddane into the outfield, but that won't by itself get them over the hump.

Verdugo may seem like a good choice to move on from because he's probably leaving in a year anyway, but if we're not going to make a huge splash trading for Soto or signing Ohtani, it's more likely we land that good player by trading someone who's cost-controlled than we will trading Verdugo. That's why Duran, Abreu, and Rafaela keep coming up in trade-talk discussions. There's three cost-controlled outfielders right there who would be extremely attractive to rebuilding teams. Wong and Casas (who I would hate to see go) also are very much cost-controlled.

Much as we like these guys, they all have warts. Wong and Rafaela are strikeout machines, Casas was a butcher most of the year, Duran is still a below-average fielder (though no longer tragically so). If we're looking to land a big fish, all of these guys might be potential chips.

As others have noted, upgrading from Verdugo is a possibility, but it's not the only one. Who gets moved and who doesn't will have a lot more to do with who becomes available, and where the Sox are able to make competitive offers, because there really are only a couple of position players who are really inspiring.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Pretty amazing that Chris Martin was 2nd on the team in bWAR.

It's not really something to hang one's hat on, but if we're only hat-hanging 3 dudes, that means we have to replace 23+ others. But like I said in the rest of what I added in, I'm fine moving him if we can get a decent return. We have to put out a better defense next year than we did this year, though, because it has such a huge domino effect on the pitching staff.

Martin was insane this year, to have a WAR like that as a relief pitcher is an incredible accomplishment. This season stunk but Martin was a pleasure to watch.

 

[simplicio]

Has anyone advocating for the trade of Verdugo said who they want in RF instead? Unless the Padres are suddenly looking to trade Tatis for some reason, I don't see where this upgrade is coming from. Teoscar Hernandez ain't it.

 

[Max Power]

Verdugo was 3rd on the team among hitters in fWAR behind Devers & Duran, and 2nd on the team in bWAR behind only Devers. He & Cora may not be able to mesh, but on the field he was almost the least of our problems. Because defense does matter - even if it's hard to quantify.

Defense is hard to quantify, yet you trust that bWAR and fWAR are appropriately quantifying it?

I like Verdugo and think he has talent to be a really good player. But his (and Yoshida's) second half with the bat is one of the big reasons the team tanked.

 

[JM3]

Defense is hard to quantify, yet you trust that bWAR and fWAR are appropriately quantifying it?

I like Verdugo and think he has talent to be a really good player. But his (and Yoshida's) second half with the bat is one of the big reasons the team tanked.

More so than random people's eye tests? Yes.

Sure, & if he hadn't hit really well in the 1st half of the season, they would have been in a worse place & wouldn't have had the opportunity to tank? I'm not sure what you're getting at? If someone offers something worth more to you than Verdugo, you take it. If you don't, you don't. He may be worth less to us than other franchises because he & Cora apparently do not see eye-to-eye, & maybe you just take what you can get. Verdugo is probably a 2-3 win player next year who will earn approximately $9.2m & then become a free agent. That's not a bad asset, but also not an amazing one. Go forth as you please.

 

[kazuneko]

He may be worth less to us than other franchises because he & Cora apparently do not see eye-to-eye, & maybe you just take what you can get.

I get what you’re saying but I hope that this doesn’t drive this decision. As a team with a pressing need for defense and a RF that requires a strong defender, Verdugo should be worth more not less to the Sox than other franchises. I honestly don’t give a crap about Cora’s ability to see eye-to-eye with him.

 

[streeter88]

I get what you’re saying but I hope that this doesn’t drive this decision. As a team with a pressing need for defense and a RF that requires a strong defender, Verdugo should be worth more not less to the Sox than other franchises. I honestly don’t give a crap about Cora’s ability to see eye-to-eye with him.

As someone who is desperately still hoping that Cora will be fired this off season (despite no evidence whatsoever that he will be fired) I agree Verdugo should not be judged on his ability to get along with Cora. Rather the other way around - Cora should be judged on his ability to get the best out of all of his players. The fact that he did not, and that the team (and Verdugo) swooned after the All Star Break should be entirely on him.

 

[johnlos]

Now do that for where he was at at the All Star break.

They took J-Rod over him in SEA hard to complain about that. Verdugo was borderline at best

 

[LogansDad]

As someone who is desperately still hoping that Cora will be fired this off season (despite no evidence whatsoever that he will be fired) I agree Verdugo should not be judged on his ability to get along with Cora. Rather the other way around - Cora should be judged on his ability to get the best out of all of his players. The fact that he did not, and that the team (and Verdugo) swooned after the All Star Break should be entirely on him.

Preach!!!

 

[joe dokes]

As someone who is desperately still hoping that Cora will be fired this off season (despite no evidence whatsoever that he will be fired) I agree Verdugo should not be judged on his ability to get along with Cora. Rather the other way around - Cora should be judged on his ability to get the best out of all of his players. The fact that he did not, and that the team (and Verdugo) swooned after the All Star Break should be entirely on him.

Yep. Entirely. Verdugo deserves no blame whatsover for pouting his way through the 2nd half. And he deserves all the credit for whatever improvememt he made in the offseason (after he got called out on his shortcoming by someone i cant recall) before his ASB pout-a-thon. And rather than benching him after he strolled to 1st on a grounder, Cora should have just beaten him to death on the field as a message to any other slackers.
Id love to be a player in your organization. I could just pick my nose in the OF while balls roll past me and never get blamed.

 

[Bertha]

Yep. Entirely. Verdugo deserves no blame whatsover for pouting his way through the 2nd half. And he deserves all the credit for whatever improvememt he made in the offseason (after he got called out on his shortcoming by someone i cant recall) before his ASB pout-a-thon. And rather than benching him after he strolled to 1st on a grounder, Cora should have just beaten him to death on the field as a message to any other slackers.
Id love to be a player in your organization. I could just pick my nose in the OF while balls roll past me and never get blamed.

I’m on the dump Cora bandwagon, while also acknowledging it is unlikely. my concern with this is that Verdugo seemed to be singled out exclusively, in spite of others having hustle failures. Raffi frequently spent a few seconds at home plate slamming his bat into the ground, which had same net effect of not hustling to first. I have no problem with a manager benching someone publicly or privately, but verdugo seems to be at top of Cora’s shit list and had a much shorter leash.
as eager as many of us are for off season moves and dreaming on 2024, I’m hoping moves can wait until we have a strong presence as POBO, And not merely a Cora-sycophant.

 

[joe dokes]

I’m on the dump Cora bandwagon, while also acknowledging it is unlikely. my concern with this is that Verdugo seemed to be singled out exclusively, in spite of others having hustle failures. Raffi frequently spent a few seconds at home plate slamming his bat into the ground, which had same net effect of not hustling to first. I have no problem with a manager benching someone publicly or privately, but verdugo seems to be at top of Cora’s shit list and had a much shorter leash.
as eager as many of us are for off season moves and dreaming on 2024, I’m hoping moves can wait until we have a strong presence as POBO, And not merely a Cora-sycophant.

I think the new guy should be able to have his own manager, too. So why does ownership have so much faith in Cora? They aren't stupid. (speculation alert); Maybe Cora expressed doubt (internally) that Verdugo could keep it together for a whole season? Maybe he was "right" (internally) about a lot of stuff. (Paxton and Bello wearing down, for example. Or Kike playing not -SS in the WBC being a bad thing).) Either management thinks he's a top-notch manager hamstrung by player personnel decisions, or he has demonstrated something behind the scenes What else could there be?

 

[kazuneko]

I think the new guy should be able to have his own manager, too. So why does ownership have so much faith in Cora? They aren't stupid. (speculation alert); Maybe Cora expressed doubt (internally) that Verdugo could keep it together for a whole season? Maybe he was "right" (internally) about a lot of stuff. (Paxton and Bello wearing down, for example. Or Kike playing not -SS in the WBC being a bad thing).) Either management thinks he's a top-notch manager hamstrung by player personnel decisions, or he has demonstrated something behind the scenes What else could there be?

Yeah, hard to say, but I personally care more about getting a top notch GM than keeping Cora. If asking a new GM to keep this guy makes the job any less attractive the front office needs to back away from that position. Heck, if it was up to me I’d have kept Bloom and fired Cora.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Adolis Garcia wins the award in RF for the AL

 

[nighthob]

If we had actual water fowl playing SS and 3B the first half of the season, we may have made the playoffs.

Well, of course, every time someone hit the ball to them it’d be a fowl ball and henceforth a strike.