USMNT: To Rüssia With Love
- Thread starter Titans Bastard
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He is 6'4" but somehow has whiffed on about 7 out of 10 headball opportunities in two games. Looks flat-footed and off-balance way too much.
Be nice to steal another and just create some drama. Last time Columbia was ahead they actually played their worst football, so let's get another and then maybe make them a little nervous.
I think this is what's going on. Miazga was epic in MLS and in the U20 World Cup last year. He was totally dominating guys like David Villa. Tonight, not so much.
Colombia are playing like a bunch of entitled fuckwits who know the ref is on their side but Gil is a fucking idiot for showing up the ref given the way the last fifteen minutes have played out.
Apparently the Colombian team has learned to roll on the ground at every contact at international competition according to the announcers
"It's part of the game" needs to be banished from the announcer playbook for good. It's an explanation, not a justification.
I haven't seen a keeper and center-back look this bad on every ball in the air since the last Liverpool game I watched.
If I were a ref I think I would probably add 30 seconds for every 5 a player spends writhing around in the grass.
Especially until getting a card for simulation is actually a serious threat.
Hard to argue with that red, dive notwithstanding.
I know he's young, but man, I hope Miazga starts for Chelsea asap.
I know he's young, but man, I hope Miazga starts for Chelsea asap.
He's a natural CDM, right? Is his upside the senior team in a starting role?
Yeah, you can tell it isn't instinctual for him. He's just not got the movements and the goals down. I don't blame him at all, it's much harder than people think to drop into a back line.
All in all Colombia deserved the victory even if they spent the last half hour embarrassing themselves. As was said in the telecast there isn't any real shame in losing to Colombia over two legs the damage was done weeks ago.
He plays mostly as a box-to-box midfielder, but he can play as a DM too. I think he has a shot to be a USMNT player if he continues to develop, but he's not there yet. He looked really good for Dallas down the stretch last season, but he needs to be more consistent.
Poor game all around from the US. Too many central midfielder types were on the field (Hyndman, Acosta, Polster, Trapp) and the pool just doesn't have enough difference-makers offensively.
I'm not even that upset because (a) Colombia totally deserved this and (b) I completely internalized this loss already, as soon as the US failed to qualify automatically from CONCACAF.
Meanwhile, back in CONCACAF, Costa Rica dominated Jamaica and the Ticos are effectively through. Jamaica losing to Panama in Jamaica earlier in the round has Jamaica on the ropes and Panama in the drivers' seat. They go through with a win on match day 5 with a win at home, and are even in the drivers' seat with a draw.
Mexico are as good as through, but their group is fascinating. Canada plays a big game at Honduras in match day five. If there is a winner, that team will likely advance, but Canada has the inside track with a draw, though El Salvador still has a chance to sneak in.
US goes through with a win against Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. Guatemala and Trinidad and Tobago play a huge game at T&T on match day 5.
Match day 5 is really compelling.
Mexico are as good as through, but their group is fascinating. Canada plays a big game at Honduras in match day five. If there is a winner, that team will likely advance, but Canada has the inside track with a draw, though El Salvador still has a chance to sneak in.
US goes through with a win against Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. Guatemala and Trinidad and Tobago play a huge game at T&T on match day 5.
Match day 5 is really compelling.
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Small quibble, but a win against Saint Vincent and Grenandines doesn't guarantee safe passage just yet, right? Looking at the table, that would put the US on 10 points. A Guatemala victory over T&T would put them on 9. A loss to T&T at home in the final match day coupled with a Guatemala victory would see them to 12 points.
Yeah, a US win plus a Guatemala loss to T&T would guarantee advancement. Otherwise it's going to the final game.
Oh yeah, of course that's right. A Guatemala draw with T&T also effectively puts the USA through (if USA beats SV/G). USA would have at least a +7 goal difference advantage over Guatemala in that case and probably more. Though with Guatemala playing SV/G on match day 6, I suppose they could make up lots of goals.
Also, I think a USA win against SV/G and a draw against T&T ensures the USA will go through. That would put the USA on 11 points. In order for Guatemala to get to 11 or higher it must get two wins, which means it would have to beat T&T. If the USA beats SV/G and draws T&T, and T&T loses to Guatemala, T&T would have 11 points but the USA necessarily would have the tie breaker. If T&T loses to Guatemala and draws the USA, its goal difference can be no higher than +7. But if the USA beats SV/G and draws T&T, it's goal difference will necessarily be +8 or higher.
Edit -- typo
Also, I think a USA win against SV/G and a draw against T&T ensures the USA will go through. That would put the USA on 11 points. In order for Guatemala to get to 11 or higher it must get two wins, which means it would have to beat T&T. If the USA beats SV/G and draws T&T, and T&T loses to Guatemala, T&T would have 11 points but the USA necessarily would have the tie breaker. If T&T loses to Guatemala and draws the USA, its goal difference can be no higher than +7. But if the USA beats SV/G and draws T&T, it's goal difference will necessarily be +8 or higher.
Edit -- typo
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Whining about the ref is the lament of the loser. Especially when you get one shot on goal over two matches.
Moreno made the same point as TB: The problem wasn't simply getting smoked by Columbia, but not automatically qualifying. The loss to Honduras should be an annoying talking point for the next couple of years.
I wasn't whining about the ref. Unless you're referring to Gil, who was indeed a loser last night.
Let's focus on the positives: Graham Zusi looked to be a useful part on the team. He was OK on set pieces, but I thought he had really good touches in midfield and was winning a lot of headers and turning lots of breaks into hold-up play. And his fitness let him stay on the field the whole game. I don't take much from that goal of his (Dempsey would have had it if he didn't, and what's he doing in the box there anyway?), but he had some really promising moments.
That's not how this works. The fan base doesn't threaten Klinsmann with termination. The fan base has no influence on Klinsmann's job security. We can / do bitch all we want about him, but the actual authority to hire and fire him rests with Sunil Gulati, who's clearly signaled that he's not going to replace Klinsmann before his contract is up, and who's in place as President of US Soccer until his elected term ends in 2018, and therefore not accountable in any meaningful way to the public.
The idea that public sentiment means a thing here with regard to Klinsmann's job security, and by extension his squad / lineup decisions, just doesn't square with reality. There is no mechanism through which public pressure would have this effect. Jurgen answers to Sunil alone; Sunil isn't replacing Jurgen, and Sunil isn't going anywhere until at least the next election in 2018.
In any case, glad to see that we haven't been eliminated from the 2018 World Cup yet. As expected, when we put a lineup out there that has some kind of surface logic to it, even with established mediocrities like Zusi and Zardes in there, we get results against CONCACAF teams not named Mexico or Costa Rica. Not rocket science.
EDIT: Repeat word.
You're not really this naive about how the world, and public perception works - are you? Like, you're a paid MLS employee who is charged with trolling several fan boards to make sure MLS and USA Soccer are viewed favorably by the public, much in the same way Putin's Troll Factory works?
Because if you really believe the bullshit you spew all over the place, you're proof of PT Barnum's axiom and not worth reading, ever again.
I'm not sure N&EU is 100% wrong, even if I'm pretty sure he's >50% wrong. US Soccer is a lot less responsive to public demands than club teams, who depend on viewership and ticket sales and have long-term symbiotic relationships with supporters' clubs. To say nothing of teams in other major US sports, where ownership may be arbitrary and capricious, and responsive to the demands of the mob. Sunil's public statements about Klinsmann's job security carry far more weight than a baseball or NFL owner's would, I think it's fair to say.
(obviously there are things besides on-the-field results which might make Gulati terminate Klinsmann, i.e. for cause, like a felony arrest, but we're only talking on-field performance here)
(obviously there are things besides on-the-field results which might make Gulati terminate Klinsmann, i.e. for cause, like a felony arrest, but we're only talking on-field performance here)
If the US had lost yesterday Gulati would have been under tremendous pressure to fire Klinsmann. Whether it would have happened or not is anyone's guess but it would have been very significant and IMO there was a very good chance it would have happened. Any statements to the contrary are the obvious thing to say if your'e running the program, I don't see why anyone can't see this.
No doubt. I know the dynamic of the US job is different than many other international positions, but there is no way a manager survives getting eliminated* from the World Cup 2 years before it begins. Wouldn't matter if it was today or in September, he would have been out.
*Technically would have still been alive, but they would have needed T&T-Guatemala to not play for a draw - when they would have full incentive to spend 90 minutes to kick the ball back and forth.
1. If you think Jurgen Klinsmann gives a rat's ass what a bunch of unwashed, know-nothing American soccer fans think about him, to the point where he's actually altering team composition and lineup construction as a result of that, I don't know what to tell you. He might care about getting fired, but the only guy who can fire him answers to no one - since he's in an unpaid, elected position that runs until 2018 - and is absolutely infatuated with him. This is a simple issue of incentives. But please tell me how public perception works.
2. You come across as someone who thinks soccer was invented in 2006 by EA Sports and Leo Messi as an excuse to hang out at the Phoenix Landing on Saturday mornings, and who has zero context or understanding about how long and difficult of a process it is for a country to go from zero to World Cup contender. Believe it or not, back in the late '80s / early '90s, when 99.9999% of the American public gave about 3 femtoseconds of thought to professional soccer, and that thought was, "this sport is for commies and homos; I'm going to watch football now," I was staying up until 3 AM to watch week-old English First Division highlights on SportsChannel and wishing we had our own first-division league over here. Now we do, and I'd like to support it and see it stick around for a while. It's not the greatest league in the world, but it's not bad, and here's the thing - the more you support it, the more likely you are to get your wish that we win the World Cup someday before you die. Yes, if you want US Soccer to succeed, do you know what the best thing you can do is? Watch MLS games on TV, so that the TV contracts grow and more money flows into the league to get spent on player acquisition and development, and we eventually start cranking out the world's best soccer players like we do basketball and baseball players, because there's a reliable financial reward for doing so. It might take 20 or 30 or 40 years, but this is the actual, realistic, sustainable route to getting the program where it needs to go - not stamping your feet and hoping that a miracle occurs and that despite all kinds of legal, economic, and cultural hurdles, we somehow get Europe to develop all of our World Cup-winning talent for us.
3. No one's putting a gun to your head. If you don't want to read me ever again, feel free. Alternatively, if you want to give me some details on why I'm wrong, and not just call me a sucker, I would be happy to engage in a rational discussion on this.
I think this part is 100% irrelevant. The franchises are owned by very wealthy people. It's not a lack of money that holds back MLS. In fact, TB has outlined how some teams have spent a fair amount of money on their academies and some of the roadblocks they face. The MLS franchises are not the integral part of player development in the US and it sounds like the issue is structural and not financial. I think we will agree that until MLS ups its game at scouting and training players, there will always be a cap as to how good the national team can be. The NCAA football/basketball model is useless for finding and developing professionals. All of the top nations use their clubs to do that work and there is no way we will succeed by going outside the club system.
One thing that soxfan121 never brings up in his MLS critiques (Maybe you do and I don't recall it) is that the league is inherently flawed because the teams are franchises and not clubs. Beyond what people usually bring up (Promotion/Relegation, Salary Cap, not following the International Calendar), I have never felt the structure of the league and franchises give incentive to make a financial commitment that clubs like Barcelona, Ajax, Sporting, and Benfica have made in player development. It's really expensive to build a La Masia.
Please.
We've had this exact discussion multiple times before. If you don't recall, you can search your own post history and find where I've replied SPECIFICALLY to you on that rambling batch of bullshit above.
This quoted bullshit is unacceptable. I've given you details on why you are wrong in the past. You've either ignored them or you've forgotten them. Either way this isn't my problem to solve.
To wit - Vinho Tinto has accurately ID'ed a flaw in my standard argument. It is so well known and repeated than many people in the forum are sick of reading it. So, my refusal to engage you - AGAIN - has very little to do with you. Plus, you don't do rational discussion. As I've said quite clearly, your posts all come of as having been written by Don Garber's personal assistant. And you've doubled down on that with that waste of bandwidth above. So, let's spare everyone Round 22 of why you are wrong and no longer worth talking to on this subject.
Lastly, I was precise in my critique of your position - you are delusional about how public perception works and your assumptions are completely off-base. This should be something you take seriously, because several other posters discussed the public perception angle last night, right after I wrote the thing you originally objected to. So...if you'd like to tilt at windmills, engage someone else. I have no further interest in what you have to say on this, or any other topic, you MLS honk. Go do PR somewhere else.
I don't see much evidence the lack of investment is a product of the franchise system. MLB teams obviously do invest in developing players through the minor league system and their programs in Latin America. Meanwhile basketball and American football don't invest in academies for the simple reason that they neither have to or are allowed to.
Benfica do not scout and develop players for fun: they do it because they make a lot of money selling those players on. If the Pats invested in their own high school and college teams, the players would still have to enter the draft. They would not own the rights to any of the players they developed, so what's the point?
What specifically makes you think the franchise system discourages player development?
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We've had a discussion before on how public perception influences Klinsmann's roster selection and lineup construction? Or are you talking about point 2 above? If so, this is the only other time I've gone into that with any kind of specificity, and I don't see any replies from you on that post.
Anyway, I know it's your schtick to be a dick to the non-regulars around here. Whatever. You don't have to read or reply to my bullshit. I've had reasonable discussions with other people on here, and I don't particularly get a lot out of reading your hot soccer takes, either, so I'm fine if we want to talk past each other.
Gulati is elected by the USSF National Council, a large body whose membership I can't find. But according to the minutes of the 2014 meeting in which he was re-elected, there was the following breakdown of the votes by bloc:
~25% each - pro council, youth council, adult council
~20% - athletes council
~5% - misc (past presidents, life members [whatever that means], etc]
So just over half of the voters are basically youth or adult league administrator types.
I don't know enough about USSF insider politics or Sunil's relationship with each bloc, but when considering the future of the USSF presidency and Sunil's role in general, it's important to understand who exactly is voting for him. What does Sunil do to keep the youth and adult league administrators on his side? What sort of public pressure will translate to pressure from various USSF blocs? I have no clue. This is the key, though, to whether Sunil will be "feeling the pressure".
~25% each - pro council, youth council, adult council
~20% - athletes council
~5% - misc (past presidents, life members [whatever that means], etc]
So just over half of the voters are basically youth or adult league administrator types.
I don't know enough about USSF insider politics or Sunil's relationship with each bloc, but when considering the future of the USSF presidency and Sunil's role in general, it's important to understand who exactly is voting for him. What does Sunil do to keep the youth and adult league administrators on his side? What sort of public pressure will translate to pressure from various USSF blocs? I have no clue. This is the key, though, to whether Sunil will be "feeling the pressure".
Don't you think that Gulati is currently seen as so instrumental to the dream of getting the WC in 2026 that he is pretty safe until that's decided or we decline to bid?
Are there any other positions from which he could use any credibility or influence he has built for a bid, other than USSF President?
Are there any other positions from which he could use any credibility or influence he has built for a bid, other than USSF President?
They are not individual clubs who are implementing their own business plan or identity. They are a franchise of a larger corporate entity. This entity has not done anything groundbreaking with regards to player development. The franchise will now be committing resources to scout, house, and train players who are 12 to 16 years of age only to have them enter the MLS SuperDraft if they make the cut. Even if you sell a player for a big profit, a third of the net proceeds go to MLS. It's much cheaper, and can get an immediate benefit, to just sign an older name player.