USMNT: To Rüssia With Love

Infield Infidel

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Titans Bastard said:
 
To the bolded: this spring, against Ukraine in Cyprus.  The key is to schedule away friendlies in potentially war-torn places!   ;)
 
 
The last two non-war torn neutral site friendlies were in v. Poland in Germany a couple months before 06 WC, and in SA v. Australia in the run up to the to 2010 WC.
 
I looked all the way back to 1998 and there weren't any others. 
 

Cellar-Door

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I think in many ways Klinsmann was the perfect choice.
His Pros:
Has no real loyalty to MLS
International name recognition and relationships which
   a. Helps get better friendlies
   b. Helps draw dual nationals to commit
   c. Lets him take on MLS without much worry that USSF will dump him
Lives in the US.
 
Cons:
Not a tactical genius.
 
There are better coaches out there, but most have little to no ties to the US which would make it difficult for them to do the kinds of things Klinsmann can in terms of imposing their will on the youth organizing and battling MLS.
 
Edit- as an example I think Bielsa is a better manager than Klinsmann, but 1. not sure he'd take it, and 2. I think he'd have difficulty battling the MLS faction in USSF.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yedlin. takes the ball half the field the wrong way then makes a lovely pass to James to spring a COL 3 on 2.
 

djhb20

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How much more offsides could you be?

ETA: Ah, didn't realize he didn't touch it.  Well done, then.
 

Cellar-Door

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djhb20 said:
How much more offsides could you be?
He didn't play it is the thing. The two players who played it were both on.
 
The biggest problem there is all the US defenders threw their hands up for the call and didn't defend. At least one of them should have been able to get back in the play.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Cellar-Door said:
Great move by the Colombian player who didn't touch it when he was offside.
Doesn't matter, there's no way you can say he wasn't involved in the play.  The defense and keeper had to react to him, which opened up the play.
 

SoxFanInCali

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BoredViewer said:
That no offsides was either a weakness of the rule, or a sketchy no-call.
Blown call.  A player can be in an offside position if he is not involved in the play.  In this case, despite not actually touching the ball, he was extremely involved.
 

djhb20

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Who's wearing #19 out there?  I don't have sound and can't find the numbers anywhere online.
 

Titans Bastard

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MVLee on!
 
Hopefully he'll be able to complete a pass.  Mix did not have a great night.
 

Titans Bastard

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Great flick from Nguyen back to Fabian/Bedoya (?) who put Wood through, but he gets stoned.
 

djhb20

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I've only seen the last 30 minutes, but the US has looked better than I expected.
 
ETA: which is not to say I disagree that Colombia has been much stronger; just I figured it would have been more so.
 

Cellar-Door

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3rd straight game giving up a goal in the 86th or later.
Part of that is subs and getting toward fringe roster guys, but part of it is also our inability to keep possession.
 

soxfan121

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
 
I can see why the owners are frustrated but their expectations just seem unrealistic.  What is Klinsmann supposed to do when a player comes up to him and asks for advice about next steps in his career?  Not "present to the player all of the options available?"  Pretend like there aren't huge advantages to going to Europe and training with the best players and coaches?  Basically, the owners seem to suggest that, in order to protect their investments in youth development, Klinsmann should give kids advice that is bad for their careers and thus in the big picture bad for the national team.  The true source of their frustration is just the broader reality in soccer - one not limited to American clubs - that youth development has very uncertain payoffs, in significant part because the legal system treats kids differently for contractual purposes than it does adults.  They want Klinsmann to submarine his own interests, and that of the players, to help them out with this annoying social reality.
 
 
 

soxfan121

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Several MLS owners, who have invested heavily in their academies in a bid to produce professional players for their clubs, are irate with Klinsmann. Since the academy players in question haven't signed professional contracts, they are free to sign their first pro deal with a foreign club, without any compensation to the club that developed them.
 
 
This is so absurd and illogical it makes my brain hurt. 
 

Titans Bastard

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So, that was a deserved loss.  Also, this:
 
https://twitter.com/MLSAnalyst/status/533369351127449600
 
 
Why does this keep happening?  Is it an exhaustion thing (re: Klinsmann fitness regime) or a mental thing or a predictable breakdown stemming from lack of possession?
 
Diskerud had possibly his worst game in a US shirt.  And his mustache is creepier than Kljestan.  Yedlin had too many stupid giveaways, and Fabian Johnson continued to be a shadow of his former self in the post-WC period.
 
Haterz gonna hate, but Beckerman showed why he keeps getting callups - he's dependable.  Call me a fanboy if you want, but he's the most underrated US player of the last few years.  I thought Altidore did a solid job, too, despite getting lucky with his Dempsey-esque PK attempt.  I thought Garza was also quietly solid.  I keep waiting for Garza to fail, but he's been decent.
 
I liked Rubin's debut.  He has work to do to fully adapt to this level, but for an 18 year old I thought he did well.  He's going to start for us by the time the cycle is over.  In contrast, Green didn't look good in a short appearance.  Outside of his goal in the WC, honestly, he really hasn't looked like he belongs.  There's no shame in that - he needs more time.
 
MVLee had that great flick and looked dangerous.  We need to see more of him.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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They were lucky not to concede late against the Czechs too. I wouldnt blame any single thing though. Against Ghana it was inevitable after defending for most of the game after Jozy's injury. Portugal was one unfortunate touch and CR7. Overmatched against Belgium but held pretty strong until ET and Lukaku.

The blown friendlies are about wholesale subs, which doesn't matter, and a lack of firepower, which obviously isn't new. Trouble getting that separation goal.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jed Zeppelin said:
They were lucky not to concede late against the Czechs too. I wouldnt blame any single thing though. Against Ghana it was inevitable after defending for most of the game after Jozy's injury. Portugal was one unfortunate touch and CR7. Overmatched against Belgium but held pretty strong until ET and Lukaku.

The blown friendlies are about wholesale subs, which doesn't matter, and a lack of firepower, which obviously isn't new. Trouble getting that separation goal.
I think possession is a major factor. There are very few teams that can consistently win without keeping possession.
 

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I'm convinced that Klinsmann will never be backed by the MLS owners and writers largely because of the Landon Donovan decision. Personally, I think Garber is scum and I'm glad that Klinsmann is telling it the way it is. 
 

Cellar-Door

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I do understand the concern about losing players out of the academy for nothing. The problem is, that isn't Klinsmann's fault. The kids who get offers from better leagues are probably leaving no matter what, all Klinsmann does is maybe get a few more kids on the radar of European clubs earlier.
They need to look to places like Ajax. They get nothing out of 90% of the academy kids, of the last 10% they get many of their first team and the money to pay for the rest of the setup. The idea that MLS, a far inferior league is going to do better than that makes me worry that the MLS owners really don't understand how the international soccer market works. If they want the USSF to step in and provide compensation of some sort, fine I guess, but the MLS academies are nowhere near the kind of investment that European ones are, better academies would produce more good players, and let teams better deal with poaching.
 

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SoxFanInPdx said:
I'm convinced that Klinsmann will never be backed by the MLS owners and writers largely because of the Landon Donovan decision. Personally, I think Garber is scum and I'm glad that Klinsmann is telling it the way it is. 
 
I'm really surprised by this, and I completely disagree. I really don't think any MLS owner cared at all about Klinsmann omitting Donovan, except of course AEG as LA's owner. I think the owners are angry about the suggestion that MLS is an inferior product- specifically the idea that the youth players that MLS is investing in are better off jumping ship to European leagues once they reach adulthood.
 
Don Garber is many things - and MLS absolutely plays Calvinball in some ways under him - but he is not a bad commissioner. Compare him to Selig or Goodell, or Sepp Blatter, and it's clear Garber is great leader for the league.
 

Titans Bastard

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Cellar-Door said:
I do understand the concern about losing players out of the academy for nothing. The problem is, that isn't Klinsmann's fault. The kids who get offers from better leagues are probably leaving no matter what, all Klinsmann does is maybe get a few more kids on the radar of European clubs earlier.
They need to look to places like Ajax. They get nothing out of 90% of the academy kids, of the last 10% they get many of their first team and the money to pay for the rest of the setup. The idea that MLS, a far inferior league is going to do better than that makes me worry that the MLS owners really don't understand how the international soccer market works. If they want the USSF to step in and provide compensation of some sort, fine I guess, but the MLS academies are nowhere near the kind of investment that European ones are, better academies would produce more good players, and let teams better deal with poaching.
 
The current system doesn't do a good job of protecting the rights of unsigned players.  In Europe, if a club poaches a prospect you at least get training compensation.  MLS doesn't want to do that because they would in turn have to pay all the non-MLS youth clubs for the players taken by MLS from them.
 
So it's true that MLS owners basically want to have it both ways - poach players from domestic clubs for free, but not lose players to the same process abroad.
 
The academy-to-MLS pathway is still being developed and is largely unproven.  If given an opportunity at a good European club, it's a safer/better choice as long as the player can adjust to living in a foreign country far from home.  MLS needs to take this as motivation to raise their developmental game and offer a better plan to their prospects.  LA lost Haji Wright to Schalke, but if they demonstrate that the U18 --> LA II --> LA ladder is effective in churning out good pros, they'll be able to make a better case to the next guy.  The league is going to have to start with the B list prospects, for the most part.
 

Titans Bastard

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The USSF has appointed Nelson Rodriguez as the head of the new "National Team Advisory Services".
 
This entity will perform the following: 
 
 
The office will focus on several key areas for players at all stages of their career:
  • Player evaluations (technical, tactical, performance fitness, mindset, personal development) to indicate the readiness to turn professional
  • Educational offerings on key topics related to being a professional player (personal finances, representation, time management, etc.)
  • Evaluations of clubs/leagues to indicate the best “fit” for a player – balancing the style of league play with the physical attributes, talent, technique and mentality of the player
  • Assistance when players are professionals as they make major transitions (such as transfers, retirement from playing)
  • Assistance with navigating the FIFA regulations that govern the status of transfers, eligibility to play for U.S. National Teams (if change of association is required, etc.), player releases during FIFA fixture dates, FIFA transfer windows, etc.
 
 
In light of the recent MLS vs. Klinsmann kerfuffle is it worth pointing out that Nelson Rodriguez is very much an MLS/Garber guy and not a Klinsmann guy.  An interesting choice by the USSF.
 

moly99

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Cellar-Door said:
I think possession is a major factor. There are very few teams that can consistently win without keeping possession.
 
It really doesn't matter much. What matters is shot creation. If one team is constantly making passes at the back then it may win possession but still lose heavily on shots on goal.
 
Titans Bastard said:
In light of the recent MLS vs. Klinsmann kerfuffle is it worth pointing out that Nelson Rodriguez is very much an MLS/Garber guy and not a Klinsmann guy.  An interesting choice by the USSF.
 
I don't know why anyone should expect otherwise. I know New Englanders don't think much of MLS, but when you consider that the national team doesn't actually produce players while MLS does, then it's a no-brainer which should be the higher priority.
 
You can argue that success for the national team in the world cup gets more American athletes to choose soccer over the NFL or NBA, but the real reason our best athletes pick other sports is money and fame. The lack of a high paying, high profile domestic league is what convinces athletes to stick to American football, basketball and baseball instead of soccer.
 

soxfan121

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moly99 said:
I don't know why anyone should expect otherwise. I know New Englanders don't think much of MLS, but when you consider that the national team doesn't actually produce players while MLS does, then it's a no-brainer which should be the higher priority.
 
 
This misses the point of the discussion - is it better for MLS and its "still under construction, not-playing-by-the-same-contract rules as the rest of the world, lesser level of player ability and competition" better for potential USMNT players than "might get buried on the bench, very competitive" international soccer as a development vehicle.
 
There's legit points on both sides. Suggesting that if you support the national team means you must support MLS makes me think you're Don Garber, related to him or a complete and utter honk.
 

moly99

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soxfan121 said:
 
This misses the point of the discussion - is it better for MLS and its "still under construction, not-playing-by-the-same-contract rules as the rest of the world, lesser level of player ability and competition" better for potential USMNT players than "might get buried on the bench, very competitive" international soccer as a development vehicle.
 
There's legit points on both sides. Suggesting that if you support the national team means you must support MLS makes me think you're Don Garber, related to him or a complete and utter honk.
 
You are only considering what happens AFTER a player develops to the point that they could make it in Europe.
 
It's not the MLS that matters: it's the MLS academies. But if the league isn't viable itself, then the academies won't exist either. If everyone watches the premier league (or La Liga, or Serie A, or whatever) instead of MLS, and all the best American players go abroad, then we lose the nascent academy system.
 
Ask yourself where would Germany be without the Bundesliga and the 70 million Euros it spends on player development each year. Is it really so weird that people would think player development would be significantly helped by a strong domestic league?
 

soxfan121

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The problem with MLS academies is that they aren't being run like DFB academies. Certainly Germany's development system would be a boon for USA Soccer. But that system isn't designed to prop up a business it is designed to produce soccer talent. MLS clubs, and their business practices, are a direct impediment to a productive youth development system. MLS isn't giving academy players professional contracts, or paying them a competitive wage.  MLS isn't paying its own players a competitive wage. MLS does pay profligate amounts on guys they can use to market the game. The MLS financial system - and goals - are antithetical to developing a strong national team. MLS is about MLS. Period.
 
The obvious rebuttal here is that MLS is doing things this way because the eventual goal is a thriving development system feeding the best league in the world. To that I say - hogwash. MLS's refusal to accept its place in the pecking order as it exists at this time is - as Klinsmann says - negatively affecting the program right now. If MLS were truly interested in creating a great game - and not "selling the sport" - they'd use the millions spent on buying Michael Bradley's prime out of Europe and go pillage Brazil or Argentina's pro leagues and import a ton of new talent. Raise the competition level for all. Instead of paying David Villa and Frank Lampard millions, go find every talented 15 year old in Brazil and build a youth program the American way - with foreigners.
 
MLS's top heavy business practices hurt the current USMNT and the development system carrot is rotten until they start paying a competitive wage. They keep buying golden toilets for a single story ranch in need of a foundation.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I'm not nearly as educated on this subject as others, but the previous post seems right, especially regarding MLS's unrealistic view of its standing in world football as well as its approach being selfish. MLS set up the system they did in order to allow the league to survive, but now that there is potential for the league to thrive, they refuse to change their business model to support growth of football in Amercia, not just MLS.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think you can make MLS stronger and the US Development system stronger with American players, but that it isn't something USSF is going to be able to do,
 
The key is to murder NCAA soccer.
 
If there was an English style academy system we could be successfull. However how that system works is thus: Kids come in early (6-8) and they are set up with training to do after school, they meet as a group a few times a week, they focus on skills, parents are provided with nutritional info etc.
Then at 10-12 they go full-time, they go to a full school day that is mixed in with football and fitness work. It means less hours of classroom time than other pupils, but many places (like West Ham) assign them tutors and expect them to do extra school work at night). One notable difference between this and the US youth system is that it is free for the student, while in the US youth soccer is a way to extort as much money as possible from the kids.
 
Now in the US being a good soccer player can get you a college scholarship which is the goal of most parents. Which is great if your intent is to go to college and get another job, but pretty terrible if you want to be a world class player. You get further and further behind the youth players in other countries. So while the 19 year old in England is going on loan and playing professional football against grown men 10 months of the year, with professional training and physio work, the American is playing a few hours a week against inconsistent competition, a short season and NCAA work limits.
 
I don't think it will ever work because it is a tough sell in the US that kids should start specializing in soccer at age 9 or 10, going to specialized schools, and not preparing for college when 85-90% of them will never make it. Especially since the MLS doesn't pay that much.
 

Infield Infidel

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soxfan121 said:
The problem with MLS academies is that they aren't being run like DFB academies. Certainly Germany's development system would be a boon for USA Soccer. But that system isn't designed to prop up a business it is designed to produce soccer talent. MLS clubs, and their business practices, are a direct impediment to a productive youth development system. MLS isn't giving academy players professional contracts, or paying them a competitive wage.  MLS isn't paying its own players a competitive wage. MLS does pay profligate amounts on guys they can use to market the game. The MLS financial system - and goals - are antithetical to developing a strong national team. MLS is about MLS. Period.
 
The obvious rebuttal here is that MLS is doing things this way because the eventual goal is a thriving development system feeding the best league in the world. To that I say - hogwash. MLS's refusal to accept its place in the pecking order as it exists at this time is - as Klinsmann says - negatively affecting the program right now. If MLS were truly interested in creating a great game - and not "selling the sport" - they'd use the millions spent on buying Michael Bradley's prime out of Europe and go pillage Brazil or Argentina's pro leagues and import a ton of new talent. Raise the competition level for all. Instead of paying David Villa and Frank Lampard millions, go find every talented 15 year old in Brazil and build a youth program the American way - with foreigners.
 
MLS's top heavy business practices hurt the current USMNT and the development system carrot is rotten until they start paying a competitive wage. They keep buying golden toilets for a single story ranch in need of a foundation.
 
So an American teen should go to Europe, but a talented 15 year old in Brazil or elsewhere in South America should go to MLS? That makes no sense at all. Why would they choose MLS over Europe? The big clubs in Europe get the best young players from everywhere. The second tier clubs in Europe get most of the rest of the players who want to go overseas at an early age. Many of these players can get into Europe via post-colonial connections that the US doesn't have.The third tier players likely wouldn't leave their home countries to train in an MLS academy that is thousands of miles from home and is at best as good and likely not as good as the local clubs' academy. The clubs in Europe invest heavily in scouting in South America; MLS doesn't have that kind of money, so I don't think the ROI for MLS teams to go scout youth teams in South America, to get fringe players and compete with local clubs, and hope to get lucky, would be worth it. 
 
For older players, MLS has a history of signing guys from second division leagues overseas who come here and can't hack it. It's a tried and true way to waste time and money, since more often than not they flame out and go back home. They do get some better players but until the league as a whole is better, most good players in South America, especially Brazil would prefer to stay home and play in a higher quality, higher paying league
 

Titans Bastard

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soxfan121 said:
The problem with MLS academies is that they aren't being run like DFB academies. Certainly Germany's development system would be a boon for USA Soccer. But that system isn't designed to prop up a business it is designed to produce soccer talent. MLS clubs, and their business practices, are a direct impediment to a productive youth development system. MLS isn't giving academy players professional contracts, or paying them a competitive wage.  MLS isn't paying its own players a competitive wage. MLS does pay profligate amounts on guys they can use to market the game. The MLS financial system - and goals - are antithetical to developing a strong national team. MLS is about MLS. Period.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by the bolded.  MLS is giving academy players pro contracts; what they aren't doing is giving them nominal "youth contracts" that pay very little and basically exist to lock in rights to the player.  This can't be done because of NCAA eligibility rules.
 
This is more of a problem for MLS clubs than players in MLS academies.  Players in MLS academies miss out on getting money from a youth contract (not a lot of $$$ though), but they are getting a free soccer education (almost all MLS clubs fully subsidize their U18 and U16 teams at the very least), they are still in line for an NCAA scholarship if needed as a fallback, and they can also sign abroad if a foreign club comes calling.  For the players, it's a great deal.  You get basically all the benefits of the academy and none of the commitment that comes with youth contracts.
 
For the clubs, the current system is a hindrance because there is no mechanism to retain player rights until the player signs the pro contract.  I can see why they'd be pissed if Klinsmann is actively convincing their most valuable assets to walk, leaving MLS teams nothing.  But of course, I don't mind seeing additional pressure placed on MLS teams to provide a better developmental experience needed to compete with European suitors.
 
 
The obvious rebuttal here is that MLS is doing things this way because the eventual goal is a thriving development system feeding the best league in the world. To that I say - hogwash. MLS's refusal to accept its place in the pecking order as it exists at this time is - as Klinsmann says - negatively affecting the program right now. If MLS were truly interested in creating a great game - and not "selling the sport" - they'd use the millions spent on buying Michael Bradley's prime out of Europe and go pillage Brazil or Argentina's pro leagues and import a ton of new talent. Raise the competition level for all. Instead of paying David Villa and Frank Lampard millions, go find every talented 15 year old in Brazil and build a youth program the American way - with foreigners.
 
I'm with you on spending less money on overpriced stars or mediocre foreign signings and more on development.  I don't see why the focus would be on 15 year old Brazilians (or wherever), though.  First of all, the level of scouting and recruiting that would require would be a lot of work and money.  Second, top South Americans continue to be vacuumed up by big Euro clubs.  Third, making teenagers culturally assimilate is an extra challenge that usually can only hurt their development.
 
Lastly and most importantly, players under 18 can't be transferred internationally.  We see this all the time with Americans who sign abroad.  One of the big stars of the current U17 team is forward Haji Wright.  He was with the Galaxy, but is headed to Schalke -- it's still "unofficial", but it's happening.  Unfortunately, Haji turns 18 in March 2016, so he's going to spend the next 1.5 years with the US U17s and dicking around in training with Schalke's youth teams.  He probably won't be eligible to play in youth Bundesliga games until the 2016-17 season.
 
Players can get around this rule if their parents move abroad for "non-football" related reasons or if they have the right passport.  That has happened in some cases, but obviously it's not a workable strategy on a large scale.
 
Add this to the general foreigner quotas that exist in various forms across Europe, and it's clear that sending youth Americans en masse to Europe just isn't going to happen.  There are too many obstacles.  So even if you'd prefer to outsource development away from MLS, it can't be done in large quantities.
 
 
 
MLS's top heavy business practices hurt the current USMNT and the development system carrot is rotten until they start paying a competitive wage. They keep buying golden toilets for a single story ranch in need of a foundation.
 
I don't think it's about the wages for youth players - it's about the developmental experience.  If players believe that they can develop well without leaving their hometown, they'll do so.  The problem is that MLS initially didn't provide a good developmental ladder for their academy prospects to climb.  Players were signed from the U18s and had to jump straight to the pros.  If a player couldn't initially get on the field in MLS, where was he going to get games to improve?  A half-assed reserve league?  That's about it - not much to help with the huge jump from the USSDA U18 league to MLS.
 
When MLS can answer these questions, they'll get more of their homegrown players.  And when they improve the quality of youth coaching, they'll have more viable 16-18 year old teenagers about whom it's worth getting mad when you lose them.  These are the real issues, IMHO.
 
The USL Pro initiative is the best attempt we've seen to date to fix this problem.  Fingers crossed that it shows returns.
 

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soxfan121 said:
 
The obvious rebuttal here is that MLS is doing things this way because the eventual goal is a thriving development system feeding the best league in the world. To that I say - hogwash. MLS's refusal to accept its place in the pecking order as it exists at this time is - as Klinsmann says - negatively affecting the program right now. If MLS were truly interested in creating a great game - and not "selling the sport" - they'd use the millions spent on buying Michael Bradley's prime out of Europe and go pillage Brazil or Argentina's pro leagues and import a ton of new talent. Raise the competition level for all. Instead of paying David Villa and Frank Lampard millions, go find every talented 15 year old in Brazil and build a youth program the American way - with foreigners.
Cellar-Door said:
The key is to murder NCAA soccer.
It's hard for me to tell if you guys are being sarcastic or if you are just crazy. So the plan is . . .
 
1) Get rid of domestic funding for the sport. MLS will use Brazilian players and college soccer will no longer develop players like Deandre Yedlin and Gyasi Zardes.
2) MLS should spend money it doesn't have on wages and run itself into the ground just like previous leagues (such as the '68-84 NASL) did.
3) MLS will recruit South Americans, Africans, etc more easily than European clubs. Why would the next Lionel Messi sign with a La Liga club when he can sign with FC Dallas?
 
soxfan121 said:
The obvious rebuttal here is that MLS is doing things this way because the eventual goal is a thriving development system feeding the best league in the world. To that I say - hogwash. MLS's refusal to accept its place in the pecking order as it exists at this time is - as Klinsmann says - negatively affecting the program right now.
 
Accepting that it is the 15th or 20th best league in the world is precisely why MLS has a salary cap and is focused on developing cheap young locals and bringing in American "stars" who can help the league get more television revenue in middle America.
 

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moly99 said:
It's hard for me to tell if you guys are being sarcastic or if you are just crazy. So the plan is . . .
 
1) Get rid of domestic funding for the sport. MLS will use Brazilian players and college soccer will no longer develop players like Deandre Yedlin and Gyasi Zardes.
2) MLS should spend money it doesn't have on wages and run itself into the ground just like previous leagues (such as the '68-84 NASL) did.
3) MLS will recruit South Americans, Africans, etc more easily than European clubs. Why would the next Lionel Messi sign with a La Liga club when he can sign with FC Dallas?
 
 
Accepting that it is the 15th or 20th best league in the world is precisely why MLS has a salary cap and is focused on developing cheap young locals and bringing in American "stars" who can help the league get more television revenue in middle America.
I don't agree with any of the S.A. stuff.
 
My point is that if you really want to be a world power in soccer the college amateur system is not a good strategy. Do we really think College is why guys like Yedlin are good, that somehow the 23 games he played and all the time he wasn't playing soccer made him better than playing 40-50 games and training full time would have? If DeAndre Yedlin had been essentially a pro from age 15 he'd probably be further along than he is now.
There is a reason that US players have traditionally broken out, late, peaked late and it is that they are delayed by the shitty youth system and college.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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There are two benefits of college soccer:
1. It's great to sell to parents as a fallback for the guy who doesn't make the pros. Hey, if he's not good enough to sign out of the academy, he can take an NCAA scholarship and get a great education. I'm struggling to see who comes out badly here.

2. It's great for picking up the late-bloomers or the guys from unusual areas that don't get scouted. Compared with the typical European country, the U.S. is HUGE. The academies won't (can't) get everyone. College is the fallback.

It should not be the primary development track for star players, but it can be a valuable part of the portfolio and should not be discarded. See college hockey and college baseball for the role that NCAA sports can play in a sport where there is a thriving professional development track (CHL and minor leagues, respectively).
 

Cellar-Door

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Mr. Wednesday said:
There are two benefits of college soccer:
1. It's great to sell to parents as a fallback for the guy who doesn't make the pros. Hey, if he's not good enough to sign out of the academy, he can take an NCAA scholarship and get a great education. I'm struggling to see who comes out badly here.

2. It's great for picking up the late-bloomers or the guys from unusual areas that don't get scouted. Compared with the typical European country, the U.S. is HUGE. The academies won't (can't) get everyone. College is the fallback.

It should not be the primary development track for star players, but it can be a valuable part of the portfolio and should not be discarded. See college hockey and college baseball for the role that NCAA sports can play in a sport where there is a thriving professional development track (CHL and minor leagues, respectively).
Part of the problem though is #1, kids who are trying to keep one foot in the college track probably can't really commit to the Euro style academy. Check out some of the articles about Ajax as an example. There is a point at which kids in that academy can't really go back to the University track, there just aren't enough hours for kids to really train to be world class players and get a complete University prep education. So a choice has to be made somewhere in the 13-14 age group. In the US college wins that overwhelmingly, understandably perhaps as parents see that it is less risky. Unfortunately that probably means a lot of US players never reach the levels they could have in a different scenario.
 

Infield Infidel

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Cellar-Door said:
I don't agree with any of the S.A. stuff.
 
My point is that if you really want to be a world power in soccer the college amateur system is not a good strategy. Do we really think College is why guys like Yedlin are good, that somehow the 23 games he played and all the time he wasn't playing soccer made him better than playing 40-50 games and training full time would have? If DeAndre Yedlin had been essentially a pro from age 15 he'd probably be further along than he is now.
There is a reason that US players have traditionally broken out, late, peaked late and it is that they are delayed by the shitty youth system and college.
 
All that time he wasn't playing soccer, he was playing soccer. Yedlin played 38 games when you combine Akron and Sounders U-23 PDL affiliate. He joined Sounders Academy at 17. Many of the best college players play or train with PDL or NPSL during the summer, then play college games in the fall. They are proposing changing the college system to have a two session fall/spring format in 2016, and mostly removing mid-week games, so except for Dec-Jan, these players would be training and playing weekly soccer matches 10 months out of the year.
 
I don't think the college system is right for a lot of guys, especially elite American players, or guys who don't care about school (in other sports too), but the level just below that it gives them playing time, flexibility to play in developmental leagues, and security if it doesn't work out. Most of the guys who thrive leave early anyway. Like someone said upthread, this is a big country and the MLS clubs can't get find everyone. If a kid is in El Paso or Birmingham or some place far from one of that less than 20 MLS academies, a college coach will probably be the first guy to see you play. Otherwise he might never get an opportunity. MLS can't alone scout US with 300M+ people, and the size of 60 Englands. Comparitively, England has 90+ clubs with academies scouting 50m people covering an area the size of Pennsylvania.
 
It also gets a few of foreigners who flame out of foreign academies, but who can get into the US on a student visa and turn into MLS players, like Steve Zakuani. He went from crashing out of Arsenal's academy at 15 to Akron to a pro career. There are a handful of guys like that each year.