Twitter CFO says a Facebook-style filtered feed is coming

soxhop411

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Earlier this year, when Twitter released its quarterly financial results, CEO Dick Costolo was asked whether the platform would ever implement a Facebook-style filtering algorithm, he hedged his answer by saying he wouldn’t “rule it out.” According to some recent comments from chief financial officer Anthony Noto, however, the company is doing a lot more than not ruling it out — it sounds like a done deal. And while that might help improve engagement with new users, it could increase the dissatisfaction some older users feel with the service.
At a financial conference on Wednesday in New York, the CFO provided some hints about the feature roadmap that new head of product Daniel Graf — who came to Twitter from Google in April — has in mind for the service, a list that includes better search and a move into group chat. But he also suggested that the traditional reverse-chronological user stream could become a thing of the past, as the company tries to improve its relevance. As the Wall Street Journal put it:

Twitter’s timeline is organized in reverse chronological order… but this “isn’t the most relevant experience for a user,” Noto said. Timely tweets can get buried at the bottom of the feed if the user doesn’t have the app open, for example. “Putting that content in front of the person at that moment in time is a way to organize that content better.”
 
 

An unfiltered stream is a core feature
This might seem like a small thing, similar to Twitter’s move to insert tweets that other people have favorited into a user’s stream if there aren’t any recent tweets to show them. But as the controversy over that feature shows, the Twitter chronological-order model is at the core of what the service offers for many users — and a number of them have specifically said it is the thing they like most about Twitter when compared to Facebook.
The most recent example of how stark the differences can be between a filtered feed and an unfiltered one was the unrest in Ferguson, Mo. and how that showed up so dramatically on Twitter but was barely present for most users of Facebook. As sociologist Zeynep Tufekci noted, that kind of filtering has social consequences — and journalism professor Emily Bell pointed out that doing this makes Facebook and Twitter into information gatekeepers in much the same way newspapers used to be.
The impetus for Twitter to filter is obvious: the service needs to show growth in both number of users and engagement in order to satisfy investors, and finding relevant content as a new user can be a challenge, which is why the company recently updated its so-called “on-boarding” process.
The reverse-chronological feed has already been tampered with by features like Twitter’s conversation threading, which connects responses in an attempt to show users an entire discussion — another feature that some users love and others hate. But moving to a totally filtered “relevance” approach would be a much more significant move, even if Twitter provided an opt-out or allowed users to turn it off. And it could change the nature of the service dramatically

 
Twitter can't be this stupid can they?
 
http://gigaom.com/2014/09/04/twitter-cfo-says-a-facebook-style-filtered-feed-is-coming-whether-you-like-it-or-not/

 
 

Blacken

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I think they can be that stupid. They're desperate to make money. Controlling what you see is a big step towards that.
 

mabrowndog

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I've already pretty much abandoned Facebook.
 
I'll probably do the same with Twitter once the “Putting that content in front of the person at that moment in time is a way to organize that content better... BECAUSE WE KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT THAN YOU DO" Nazis finish whatever it is they plan on doing.
 

soxhop411

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mabrowndog said:
I've already pretty much abandoned Facebook.
 
I'll probably do the same with Twitter once the “Putting that content in front of the person at that moment in time is a way to organize that content better... BECAUSE WE KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT THAN YOU DO" Nazis finish whatever it is they plan on doing.
I hope that if there is enough backlash from the community (and the stock market) that they end up not doing this.
 

brs3

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Facebook has over a billion users, and a revenue of almost 8 billion in 2013. Is there anything that reveals that the filtering is reducing revenue or users? Is there anything that suggests this is stupid, other than your own view, Soxhop? Twitter is much smaller, so why not follow Facebook's lead? 
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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soxhop411 said:
I hope that if there is enough backlash from the community (and the stock market) that they end up not doing this.
 
Here's the thing: this already exists. They implemented it a year or so ago, but it's on a different tab. Log in to your account and go to Discover and then Tweets. It's a list of the most relevant tweets based on what accounts you follow are liking/re-tweeting. That it already exists makes me think that they'll likely incorporate it as a more prominent feature, but won't replace the chronological timeline altogether.
 

AlNipper49

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brs3 said:
Facebook has over a billion users, and a revenue of almost 8 billion in 2013. Is there anything that reveals that the filtering is reducing revenue or users? Is there anything that suggests this is stupid, other than your own view, Soxhop? Twitter is much smaller, so why not follow Facebook's lead? 
 
I think because they are used for different things.  I know a ton of people who use twitter for their news feeds.  I know approximately zero who use Facebook.  It could be a small sample size thing, but who really knows.  
 

soxfan121

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AlNipper49 said:
 
I think because they are used for different things.  I know a ton of people who use twitter for their news feeds.  I know approximately zero who use Facebook.  It could be a small sample size thing, but who really knows.  
 
You don't know enough SAHM. All of my toddler's play group mommies get their news exclusively from FB, at least based on the conversations I suffer through three times a week.
 

smastroyin

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The stock market is who wants this.  The stock market is going to get really annoyed if they don't start being able to generate revenue.
 
My guess is the compromise is you will have the option to stay chronological, but there will be ads and "promoted tweets" no matter what.
 

zenter

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Blacken said:
I think they can be that stupid. They're desperate to make money. Controlling what you see is a big step towards that.
 
This is correct. They opened up Twitter Analytics to all users (who sign up for a Twitter ads account) for similar reasons. They want money now, dammit.
 
Here's the dirty secret: this functionality is already there. Go to the "Discover" tab (which nobody clicks on). This is basically about swapping "Discover" and "Timeline" views, essentially. And what Twitter is today won't likely go away. They simply have an existential need to properly monetize all these users. 
 
 
AlNipper49 said:
I think because they are used for different things.  I know a ton of people who use twitter for their news feeds.  I know approximately zero who use Facebook.  It could be a small sample size thing, but who really knows.  
 
Yeah, but usage isn't a great predictor of user tolerance or interests. I used to use Facebook to see what movies, books, and TV shows my friends like. When was the last time you were "poked"? Or actually looked at a friend's profile?
 
Change like this isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as (as smas says) there's a choice to see chronological view...
- Ads and promoted tweets are inevitable and help pay for a free service.
- TV hashtag integrations are already in place through their Bluefin acquisition.
 
I see some potential upside - when you use an "owned" hashtag, wouldn't that imply you're interested in seeing posts about it too? Similarly, when you use a trending hashtag, wouldn't that imply you'd want to see other posts about that highlighted? Discovery of others with similar interests is a right PITA on Twitter, and this might actually get users more engaged.
 
In other words, done right and it's a win-win.
 

Corsi

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zenter said:
 
Change like this isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as (as smas says) there's a choice to see chronological view...
- Ads and promoted tweets are inevitable and help pay for a free service.
- TV hashtag integrations are already in place through their Bluefin acquisition.
 
I see some potential upside - when you use an "owned" hashtag, wouldn't that imply you're interested in seeing posts about it too? Similarly, when you use a trending hashtag, wouldn't that imply you'd want to see other posts about that highlighted? Discovery of others with similar interests is a right PITA on Twitter, and this might actually get users more engaged.
 
In other words, done right and it's a win-win.
 
Bingo.  This is the nut they're currently trying to crack.  Some hashtag integrations are already in place, but the experience, put bluntly, sucks.
 
See today's announcement about the upcoming NFL experience for a better example of what Twitter is looking to build: https://blog.twitter.com/2014/the-nfl-on-twitter-it-happens-here
 
Full disclosure: I work at Twitter for the team that was formerly Bluefin. 
 

mabrowndog

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Good point about the "Discover" feature, which I've never used. Nor do I want to.
 
What's really surprising about this chatter regarding forced alterations of feeds: It was fairly recently Twitter did something users had spent years pining for: They increased the number of user lists an account could have (from 20 to some three-digit number), and the maximum number of members of each list from 500 to 2000 (maybe more?). And as always, you can add accounts you're not necessarily following, so you don't encroach on the maximum of "followed" users your particular account carries.
 
Since I use Twitter mainly as a radio or stock ticker for breaking news and topical content, it's been huge to have more list flexibility, and I was impressed that they finally listened to what users wanted.
 
zenter said:
Change like this isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as (as smas says) there's a choice to see chronological view...
- Ads and promoted tweets are inevitable and help pay for a free service.
 
I'm totally fine with that. But what Facebook did was (a) restrict the visibility of posts & updates by certain friends or "liked" pages without ever explaining the methodology or asking those of us on the viewing end if it would matter, and (b) started requiring that any page set up for a venture deemed commercial -- regardless of whether it's Bank of America or some tiny home-based business with a mom baking cupcakes or knitting socks -- would have to pay for their posts to show up in feeds. The way they went about it was draconian and it ruined the service for me, even when using an app like Social Fixer to undo much of the implemented bullshit.
 
Even charities and non-profits got caught in the web, including many operated here on the Cape by friends and associates. And it wasn't long before some of them thought I was ignoring them. "Hey, didn't you see all the pics I posted of the Disabled American Veterans luncheon we had?" And other similar stuff. In fact, I hadn't been seeing their updates, and as far as I knew they hadn't been posting anything. All because Facebook had unilaterally eliminated their entries from my feed.
 
Inserting sponsored Tweets into my feed? Yeah, I can deal with that. Eliminating updates from certain list & feed members because Twitter concludes those will interfere with the visibility of and attention paid to sponsored Tweets? Fuck that shit.
 

Corsi

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zenter

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JimD said:
I already get promotional tweets in my feed.
 
Yes. And they also are somewhat sensitive to the people you follow and those who follow you, and (IIRC) hashtags. The next-generation TwAdvertising is about scraping your identity - from the content you read, click on, write, and ignore - to really target you. It's the difference between a Starbucks billboard on the highway you drive on and a personalized "today-only" coupon for your favorite Starbucks iced drink, delivered to you, JimD, at 3PM.
 
The scraping is already in progress, and it's merely to catch up to Google, Facebook, et al.
 
mabrowndog said:
Good point about the "Discover" feature, which I've never used. Nor do I want to.
 
Inserting sponsored Tweets into my feed? Yeah, I can deal with that. Eliminating updates from certain list & feed members because Twitter concludes those will interfere with the visibility of and attention paid to sponsored Tweets? Fuck that shit.
 
I agree that it's complete and utter BS the way FB did this, but there's little indication Twitter even wants to do this - the way human and non-human profiles work is almost identical - how would Twitter know? I think there's a structural difference here that will (hopefully) prevent such shenanigans.
 

Orange Julia

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mabrowndog said:
 
 
Even charities and non-profits got caught in the web, including many operated here on the Cape by friends and associates. And it wasn't long before some of them thought I was ignoring them. "Hey, didn't you see all the pics I posted of the Disabled American Veterans luncheon we had?" And other similar stuff. In fact, I hadn't been seeing their updates, and as far as I knew they hadn't been posting anything. All because Facebook had unilaterally eliminated their entries from my feed.
 
 
 
Yes, this is a real problem for those of us who operate in non profit, and for small businesses. I would love the ability to prioritize my feed so that i get more of some things and less of others. I can "follow" pages that I like, and I think that helps (it is one step beyond "Like") but I too have tried to move away from FB and into Twitter to get my actual information. Facebook is great to see everyone's back to school pics, but I have just no idea how it is that sometimes a work post will get reach 100 of my followers, and sometimes it will reach 500. I have no idea how that works.  The "promote a post" is quite a bargain though--for about $20 i can get a reach of almost 20k residents of the county. 
 

Scott Cooper's Grand Slam

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How long until Twitter kills the third party client? Promoted Tweets, favorites in my timeline, the Discover tab... it's all a non-issue for me, because I've literally never seen any of it. Of course, it's been years since I looked at Twitter.com or the Twitter app. I use EasyChirp (the accessible Twitter client that is so light it runs well in the Kindle web browser) as a web client. On mobile, I swear by Tweetbot. On my Mac, I can tweet (and read Twitter) directly from the OS or from a host of apps and services that feed my timeline and mentions directly to me.
 
I'm happy to pay for an un-polluted stream. As soon as Twitter starts forcing this "extra" content into all clients that use the Twitter API... that's the day I start to worry.
 

Laser Show

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I have a few friends on Twitter, but I get all of my news from it. Mostly sports and general world news, but there's a shit ton of stuff on there that's really useful because of the chronological timeline - like if a huge fire is happening in downtown Boston I can scroll back and figure out quickly what's going on based on what people are saying.
 
I feel like that could get very confusing, especially timelines of events, if they start the algorithm thing. Hopefully the option for chronological stays the same.
 

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smastroyin said:
The stock market is who wants this.  The stock market is going to get really annoyed if they don't start being able to generate revenue.
 
My guess is the compromise is you will have the option to stay chronological, but there will be ads and "promoted tweets" no matter what.
 
Yup.
 
VC's have gotten into the habit of throwing money at companies with large member databases, and then trying to figure out how to monetize it later.
 
I worked at a start up with some big boy venture capitalists backing it because of that exact theory. Interestingly, they didn't even do enough research to realize that, while we did have nearly a million users with our free service, we were only able to monetize the users in the United States which consisted of less than 30% of all users.
 
Twitter investors want to make their money back. I wouldn't be surprised if this is how it starts.
 

JimBoSox9

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Someone needs to explain this Facebook problem to me.  It takes 3 seconds to switch my News Feed from the filtered Top Stories to the chronological Most Recent, and the parameter is in the URL so it's bookmarkable.  What am I missing?
 

Orange Julia

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You're probably missing a lot. Even set at Recent Stories you're not getting ALL the stories. And if you look at facebook on a mobile device it is pretty impossible to read posts in real time (or an approximation) Or maybe you only are friends with 6 people so its not an issue. But when the facebook math neglects to show me posts from people I interact with every day (like, say, my sister or my best friend) and I only see them three days later when scrolling on my phone, it becomes a lot less useful a tool, at least for someone like me.
 

Foulkey Reese

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Orange Julia said:
You're probably missing a lot. Even set at Recent Stories you're not getting ALL the stories. And if you look at facebook on a mobile device it is pretty impossible to read posts in real time (or an approximation) Or maybe you only are friends with 6 people so its not an issue. But when the facebook math neglects to show me posts from people I interact with every day (like, say, my sister or my best friend) and I only see them three days later when scrolling on my phone, it becomes a lot less useful a tool, at least for someone like me.
It's absolutely bizarre how they do this. I'll see a post with 5 comments at the top of my page all day, and then totally miss somebody getting engaged or having a baby because it just doesn't show up in my feed.
 
Every day I get closer to just bailing. 
 

Orange Julia

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And there's no way to turn off the constant stream of birthday wishes to your friends. Some days my entire feed is just completely filled with complete strangers saying happy birthday to someone I know.
 

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JimBoSox9 said:
Someone needs to explain this Facebook problem to me.  It takes 3 seconds to switch my News Feed from the filtered Top Stories to the chronological Most Recent, and the parameter is in the URL so it's bookmarkable.  What am I missing?
Most Recent just takes mostly the same Top Stories but arranges them chronologically. You're still only seeing a fraction of your friends' posts.
 

Blacken

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Scott Cooper's Grand Slam said:
On my Mac, I can tweet (and read Twitter) directly from the OS or from a host of apps and services that feed my timeline and mentions directly to me.
Even Twitter's own Mac app doesn't show promoted tweets.