Torii Hunter's Stupidity is Not News

[cannonball 1729]

Seems like more of a feel good homecoming since the Twins aren't going anywhere this year and they need to field something. And Torii can be a mentor to that stacked minor league stable about to hit the majors.and smile for the cameras before he retires.

 
 
Well, I may have some bad news, then:
 


RandBall         @RandBall
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Hunter just called St. Paul reporter @MikeBerardino a "prick" after Berardino asked him about marriage/deadspin/arkansas stuff.
 
 
https://twitter.com/RandBall/status/540255703387357184

 

[grimshaw]

I'd like to see Dale Scott's strike zone when Hunter bats.

 

[jasvlm]

Hunter has always been sensitive about his home/upbringing, and I can't say that I'm surprised that he's reacting to this line of questioning.  Nothing to see here.

 

[cannonball 1729]

Hunter has always been sensitive about his home/upbringing, and I can't say that I'm surprised that he's reacting to this line of questioning.  Nothing to see here.

 
Huh?  Hunter was doing campaign ads for the governor of Alabama this fall and telling Alabama voters to stand up for "traditional" marriage.  If he doesn't want to answer questions about his views, he probably shouldn't have cast himself as a political figure.

 

[BornToRun]

 
Huh?  Hunter was doing campaign ads for the governor of Alabama this fall and telling Alabama voters to stand up for "traditional" marriage.  If he doesn't want to answer questions about his views, he probably shouldn't have cast himself as a political figure.

If you don't want people to ask you questions about being an asshole, it's best not to be an asshole.

 

[Average Reds]

Hunter has always been sensitive about his home/upbringing, and I can't say that I'm surprised that he's reacting to this line of questioning.  Nothing to see here.

If you are going to post dismissive comments like this, you should take the time to make sure that they are even remotely connected to the issue at hand.

The incident in question has nothing to do with Hunter's upbringing and everything to do with the fact that he's an intolerant bigot.

He has a right to his views. But to hide from them and lash out at a reporter for asking a perfectly reasonable question reveals him to be a complete coward.

 

[moondog80]

Misguided as his gay marriage views are (IMO), Hunter strikes me as pretty sincere, standup guy.  But yes, by using his name to campaign for a candidate, he's fair game for questions like this.  And he probably just made the situation worse for himself.  

 

[Leather]

Misguided as his gay marriage views are (IMO), Hunter strikes me as pretty sincere, standup guy.  But yes, by using his name to campaign for a candidate, he's fair game for questions like this.  And he probably just made the situation worse for himself.  

 
Hunter is dumb.  I'm not surprised he's a bigot, because lots of stupid people believe stupid shit.  Being sincere is not a substitute for empathy or intelligence.
 
His press conference was broadcast on the local public radio station, and he gave the most rambling, inane, and ultimately vaguely insulting reason for going back to Minnesota I've ever heard.  It was like:
 
- I left to go to some good team to win
- I didn't win
- Man, those teams were good.
- Seriously, those teams, the Angels and Tigers, were awesome.
- I'm really bummed I didn't win.
- Honestly, I thought we would win in Detroit.  You never know.
- You face storms in life.  There are storms in baseball.
- I really wish we had won.
- Triple crown!  Still no World Series. Can you believe that?
- So now I'm in Minnesota.
- Oh, uh...ya, this team could win too, I suppose.
- So now I'm here.  Because this was always my home.  Or something.
- But I had to leave to try and win.  That's why I left. And why I'm back now.
- It's hard.  

 

[Average Reds]

Misguided as his gay marriage views are (IMO), Hunter strikes me as pretty sincere, standup guy.  But yes, by using his name to campaign for a candidate, he's fair game for questions like this.  And he probably just made the situation worse for himself.  

 
I have a hard time giving someone a pass for their hatred just because it's sincere hatred.
 
Hunter's performance yesterday - where he refused to take ownership of his views and then repeatedly called a reporter a prick for even asking the question - is about as far from being a stand up guy as I can imagine.  But to each his own.

 

[moondog80]

 
I have a hard time giving someone a pass for their hatred just it's sincere hatred.
 
Hunter's performance yesterday - where he refused to take ownership of his views and then repeatedly called a reporter a prick for even asking the question - is about as far from being a stand up guy as I can imagine.  But to each his own.

 
Most people who support gay marriage didn't always feel that way, they've had that view evolve over time.  He's not perfect.  But this issue aside, he has a history of being a clubhouse leader, major supporter of charitable causes, and a long list of people who actually know him that will vouch for his character.  Unless you think that was all an insincere cover so he could advance an anti-gay agenda, that counts for something.  People are complex.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

John Lackey was a clubhouse cancer in 2011 and a great clubhouse guy in 2013. Narratives are complex.

 

[MakMan44]

Yep, and then asked for a trade in '14.

Because the team was awful and they were shopping Lester. Things change, and as Snod said, narratives are complex. 

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Well, back to what we all can actually observe and make assessments on--Torii Hunter went out and campaigned for a cause and then called a reporter a prick something like 8 times in 30 seconds for asking him a question about it, during his (drleather nailed it) sorta bizarre press conference where he seemed to be ineffectively trolling for praise for gracing Minnesota with his presence again. But yes, people are complex. I'm sure Ed Gein tipped well too (and before anyone asks incredulously, yes of course I'm equating Torii Hunter to Ed Gein).
 
I obviously have no way of knowing, but Torii Hunter has always struck me as being very insincere. Is Mr. Nicest Guy Ever for the most part but the first to bitch about this, complain about that. Insincere would be one of the first words I'd use to describe my impression of him.

 

[moondog80]

I obviously have no way of knowing, but Torii Hunter has always struck me as being very insincere. 

 
 
Lots of people who do have a way of knowing would say otherwise.  Peter Gammons (who has always come across to me as a liberal thinker) gushes over him.  He won the Branch Rickey award for his charitable work.  Former teammates/managers praise him  Granted, all those things apply to Kirby Puckett too, and he turned out to have a pretty big dark side.  Maybe Hunter does too.  But if all we have is his view on gay marriage, one that many of you probably shared at some point in your life, that's not enough to overshadow the mountain of evidence in favor of his character.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
 
Lots of people who do have a way of knowing would say otherwise.  Peter Gammons (who has always come across to me as a liberal thinker) gushes over him.  He won the Branch Rickey award for his charitable work.  Former teammates/managers praise him  Granted, all those things apply to Kirby Puckett too, and he turned out to have a pretty big dark side.  Maybe Hunter does too.  But if all we have is his view on gay marriage, that's not enough to overshadow the mountain of evidence in favor of his character.

 
I'm having trouble understanding what the hell any of this has to do with anything being discussed. Great, he impressed the very tough critic Peter Gammons, does charity work and is nice to his co-workers. Yes, people are fucking complex. And we have more than his view on gay marriage. We have nearly 15 years of quotes and observation and minutiae and his presence in the league that speaks as clearly to "phony" as a bunch of smoke directed up his ass. Do you think maybe it goes without saying that "people are complex"?
 
So he knows what people want to see/ hear. He's still an asshole. See above story for another perfect example.
 
Anyway, it must suck to root for a team who's best off-season moves are $10.5mm for an aging former star to come back and have some nice, middling-production closure for his career.

 

[Cumberland Blues]

split from the news thread

 

[opes]

Torii Hunter is not going to help the twins win the WS.

 

[moondog80]

 
Anyway, it must suck to root for a team who's best off-season moves are $10.5mm for an aging former star to come back and have some nice, middling-production closure for his career.

 
Well, on this part we agree.
 
 
I'll still take the opinion of those who have actually dealt with him over yours.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
Well, on this part we agree.
 
 
I'll still take the opinion of those who have actually dealt with him over yours.

 
Ok, can you maybe make another pass at articulating your point, and what it has to do with anything? Because I'm reading your response to Average Reds discussion of how hard TH fails on this issue as "well other times people say he's a nice guy." Something you could say about literally every asshole ever. And as Kirby Puckett taught us, yes, you'll never find a shortage of people lining up to praise the superficial personae of professional athletes, thus skewing our perception of them.
 
I'm not really worried about who's opinion you favor, I'm just completely lost on what your point is.

 

[hbk72777]

I don't like Hunter because of his attitude, but he has the right to his views.
 
A baseball press conference isn't the place to ask about politics/religion etc. Set up a separate interview if you want to discuss it.
 
Harbaugh wouldn't even answer questions on the Ray Rice situation, considering it non-football related topic.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Torii Hunter is not going to help the twins win the WS.

 
Perhaps not, but the Mayor's Cup just got a whole lot more interesting

 

[nattysez]

Are we not even going to get into his quotes about sabermetrics not being able to tell you anything about defense?  I'm very much in the camp that defensive stats are a work in progress, but him trying to defend himself as a good defender by complaining about analytics is pretty crazy.  JoePos wrote about this today.
 
In other news, this sums up Torii's motivations:
 

"I wouldn't play in Minnesota unless my career was at an end and I had to go to Minnesota to play the game." Nov 2007
 

 

[moondog80]

 
Ok, can you maybe make another pass at articulating your point, and what it has to do with anything? Because I'm reading your response to Average Reds discussion of how hard TH fails on this issue as "well other times people say he's a nice guy." Something you could say about literally every asshole ever. And as Kirby Puckett taught us, yes, you'll never find a shortage of people lining up to praise the superficial personae of professional athletes, thus skewing our perception of them.
 
I'm not really worried about who's opinion you favor, I'm just completely lost on what your point is.

 
Just because Kirby Puckett was only superficially good doesn't mean that everyone else is too.  Obviously, even bad people do nice things once in a while.  That doesn't seem to be the case here.  Hunter, to me, seems like a guy who often goes out of his way to try and do a whole lot of good, sometimes at his own expense.  He's started up charities with his own money, real charities that do real things, as opposed to foundations that have expenses almost equal to the money they bring in.  He's spoken about racial issues in baseball when he knew the message wasn't going to be universally well received.  Of course he could be a fraud, we'll never know for sure, but until I see more evidence, his view on gay marriage is just one unfortunate thing (again, that most people, like all of our presidents ever, shared until relatively recently) against a reputation of trying to make things better.   Not supporting gay marriage isn't a deal breaker, the way that say,  Bill Cosby's troubles are, not yet anyway.

 

[hunter05]

 
Just because Kirby Puckett was only superficially good doesn't mean that everyone else is too.  Obviously, even bad people do nice things once in a while.  That doesn't seem to be the case here.  Hunter, to me, seems like a guy who often goes out of his way to try and do a whole lot of good, sometimes at his own expense.  He's started up charities with his own money, real charities that do real things, as opposed to foundations that have expenses almost equal to the money they bring in.  He's spoken about racial issues in baseball when he knew the message wasn't going to be universally well received.  Of course he could be a fraud, we'll never know for sure, but until I see more evidence, his view on gay marriage is just one unfortunate thing (again, that most people, like all of our presidents ever, shared until relatively recently) against a reputation of trying to make things better.   Not supporting gay marriage isn't a deal breaker, the way that say,  Bill Cosby's troubles are, not yet anyway.

 
He's engaging in a campaign to deny rights to others. What you're writing here is a lot of equivocating bullshit.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
Just because Kirby Puckett was only superficially good doesn't mean that everyone else is too.

 
I think this is where we're having a problem here, moondog. Nothing I said even approached suggesting this. The rest of your post ("not supporting gay marriage" is a nice way to put it) is just vague platitudes. He has a "real" charity and talked about racial issues a few times (the latter of which I find a bit less impressive considering his recent campaign efforts). Peter Gammons gushes. OK.
 
Kirby Puckett was used as an example, and a particularly instructive one. The PR machine in professional sports and his ability to self-serve through it doesn't really convince me.
 
I'm not advocating locking the guy up or condemning him forever. I'm saying he seems like an asshole. Sure, I believe he's good at making friends with teammates and sports reporters too, and yes I've read the mountains of praise thrown in his direction for years. I'm aware of his reputation, I'm saying I don't buy it, and this is another great example why. Or claiming to want to kick Steve Horgan in the teeth. Or going past just "not advocating gay marriage" into condemning it and remarking he'd be uncomfortable with a gay teammate. Or when decrying the decline of black players in MLB claiming that black Latinos don't count and "are impostors" courted by baseball as a cheaper route to diversity.

 

[joe dokes]

FWIW--
According to the reporter, Hunter's wife was able not to call the reporter a prick.
http://deadspin.com/anti-gay-bigot-torii-hunter-calls-reporter-prick-four-1666585947
 

I asked the same questions a few minutes later of Katrina Hunter, his wife, and she offered well-reasoned answers that did not include insults at my expense. I published her complete answers, as well as those of her husband, on my Twins Now blog at TwinCities.com.
 

I think this is it:
http://blogs.twincities.com/twins/2014/12/03/twinsights-torii-katrina-hunter-discuss-impact-political-backlash-job-search/

 

[moondog80]

Or claiming to want to kick Steve Horgan in the teeth.

 
We can agree to disagree on his general character.  But do you really think he actually meant this?

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

On the other hand, he has a pleasant enough voice and a great smile.

 

[InsideTheParker]

How can any Sox fan not dislike Toriiiiiiiiiii after he said "The best team didn't win" after the '08 alds? (Sox 3, Angels 1) 
And I disagree that it was inappropriate to ask him about his very public political stance during the presser. He went out of his way to take a public position. He ought to be proud of it.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
We can agree to disagree on his general character.  But do you really think he actually meant this?

 
Do you really think that I really think that he actually meant this?
 
Let's keep doing discussions this way, it's really fun. What will you ignore and what will you isolate from this post?!

 

[Rasputin]

Am I the only one who thinks it's patently obvious that he went to the Twins so he could make sure he ws traded to a team that had a chance at winning?

 

[Average Reds]

 
We can agree to disagree on his general character.  But do you really think he actually meant this?

 
So your saying he is sincere in his hatred, but not this particular hatred?  I'm so confused...
 
For all I know, Tori Hunter is a nice guy outside of his strident homophobic bigotry.  But his strident homophobic bigotry (expressed numerous times over the years and most certainly not limited to the topic of gay marriage) is not something I'm going to overlook simply because he comes by his hatred honestly.
 
Agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[GilaMonster]

I
 

 
So your saying he is sincere in his hatred, but not this particular hatred?  I'm so confused...
 
For all I know, Tori Hunter is a nice guy outside of his strident homophobic bigotry.  But his strident homophobic bigotry (expressed numerous times over the years and most certainly not limited to the topic of gay marriage) is not something I'm going to overlook simply because he comes by his hatred honestly.
 
Agree to disagree, I guess.

 
Agreed. We saw an umpire who was brave enough to come out as gay this week. The general consensus is that everyone is baseball was very accepting and supported. But it isn't hard to see why players would struggle with being open about their sexuality when player like Hunter are around. Say you are a young gay Twins player. How would you feel playing on the same team with Hunter? 

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

"Stupid people are complex" is a simple concept that not all smart people can grasp.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

 
Agreed. We saw an umpire who was brave enough to come out as gay this week. The general consensus is that everyone is baseball was very accepting and supported. But it isn't hard to see why players would struggle with being open about their sexuality when player like Hunter are around. Say you are a young gay Twins player. How would you feel playing on the same team with Hunter? 

One day, hopefully soon this type of "news" will cease to be news and become very accepted. I believe that the majority of the locker rooms in sports know who is gay and who isn't and they do not care. The media does a great job at making something out of nothing because it gives them a story to write. Do I share Hunters views? Absolutely not. Does it offend me? No. Hunters views are his own. Whether you think they are ignorant or not it's protected under the right of free speech. He's speaking out against marriage. Torii Hunter is from the bible belt, you have a better chance of meeting God than getting people down there to change their views.

Personally I believe everyone has the right to a lifetime of misery.