This year's ESPN hit piece

splendid splinter

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It was announced back in Feb 2017 that Wickersham and Van Natta were doing a book about NFL power struggles among the owners. I have to wonder if this isn’t some fluff piece designed to prime the pump for that - gossipy speculation that people will eat up.
 
Yes. What is up with the snowflakery here?

This is manna from fucking heaven. If I’m one of the other 11 playoff teams, I am pissed.
Re: the first part of this, I can only say Amen. I guess if your team is the Yankees and you're afraid it might stop being the Yankees soon, it's natural to worry about the end being nigh...but speaking as a fan of one of the other 31 teams, some of you really need to chill out.

As for the second part of dcmissle's post, that I don't see. I've read the article, and there's nothing remotely billboard-worthy there. I suppose Belichick could circle the wagons against the general sense that "people" or "the media" want the Pats to lose...but surely Belichick is better than someone who needs to lower himself to do that. Right?
 

reggiecleveland

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I don’t know what to believe but nothing in the article strikes me as totally implausible.
I agree. Sure it is possible to dismiss everything with rose colored glasses, but it seems it could be true. The JG trade seemed to make little sense, considering other chances to trade him, talk they were not trading him coming from inside sources.

I find it believable that BB in typical cold blooded fashion would trade, Brady.
 

Hoya81

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Blaming Brady for Hogan getting hurt seemed like a real stretch, same with JG being denied treatment by Guerrero.
 

splendid splinter

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I’m not tuned into Boston sports reporting, but I don’t recall Brady being considered “famously unhelpful” to his backups. In fact, I just read an article where Hoyer praised Brady for helping him - “whenever I had a question for him, he was always there to give me an answer.” And we got zero information about the JG negotiations for months and months, and now Wickersham is the guy someone tells about a $17M per year offer? No one in the Boston media could have extracted that from a source? Color me skeptical.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The lack of quotes on most of the key allegations, and near total lack of clear sourcing, is embarrassing.

I have no idea what is or isn’t going on with Kraft, BB, and Brady. And after reading that article it’s clear Wickersham has little more actual info than I do—he’s just more willing to speculate publicly.
 

Ed Hillel

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I agree. Sure it is possible to dismiss everything with rose colored glasses, but it seems it could be true. The JG trade seemed to make little sense, considering other chances to trade him, talk they were not trading him coming from inside sources.
Curran says in his article today that Jimmy was not going go get a contract offer unless it included the ability to start next season because they knew he’d expect nothing else. Thus, the decision was to trade Jimmy at the deadline or to hold him and trade Brady in the offseason, likely for a pittance as BB wouldn’t trade him to a contender and mediocre or rebuilding teams wouldn’t give much up. Trading Brady also incurs a 14 million dollar dead cap hit and leaves Jimmy all the leverage, particularly because he and Brady share the same agent.

Why not trade him during the draft? Probably because they didn’t get an overwhelming offer and, absent that, preferred to wait it out until the last minute to see how Brady reacted and played.
 

rodderick

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Didn't Brady take Garoppolo to the Kentucky Derby? What about the Wolfpack stuff? I don't know, he seemed tighter with him than any other backup I can remember aside from Cassel. Maybe he wasn't really helpful as a mentor, but it seems like a stretch to paint him as a Favre type. Portraying players calling Brady "sir" as some sort of ego trip, or a sign that he's this magnanimous figure is just laughable. The dude is 40 years old, what are 20 year old supposed to call him? Aside from that, don't most of these players, after getting to New England, express surprise at how much Brady is just another dude in the locker room? Brady may be kooky, and he's deftinitely insecure, but I thought the piece tried too hard to establish this image of him as an egomaniac.

Overall, the story was much tamer than I was expecting. I believe the Guerrero stuff is probably dead on, at this point I don't think you can say that hasn't had any effect on this team. I really hope Brady would dissociate himself from that guy, but I guess that ship has sailed. On the Garoppolo side, I do believe that Bill wanted to keep him initially, but the piece can't both state that Belichick is aware of Brady's stature with the team and ownership and then go on to say that Bill was livid after Kraft supposedly told him to trade Jimmy. He's a smart man, he obviously had an inkling something like that may happen. If he was that set on Garoppolo on the future of the franchise, to the point of it causing a rift with ownership when they demanded he trade Jimmy, his offer probably wouldn't have stopped at 17M per year. That's Mike Glennon money.

I'm sure the Brady-Belichick relationship isn't all roses, and that there are sprinkles of truth (or even more than that) throughout this piece. I just didn't think it was this apocalyptic "this team is going to come crashing down" type of stuff. Honestly, most of the situations described seemed to me like they could be worked around. I mean, is Bill going to retire because he had Tom fucking Brady "forced" on him? Didn't meet the hype.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Felt like a whole lot of words to not really break much new ground. Brady yelling at Mcdaniels isn’t an anecdote even worth mentioning. You can find the BOB/Brady blowups on YouTube easily enough I’m sure. Same with BB calling out Brady after the Houston game. These aren’t data points of a crumbling relationship.

The most shocking thing in there was that BB and Goodell are supposedly good friends now.
 
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tims4wins

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Pretty interesting piece from Curran (despite a major typo -- I think the word "not" is missing from the first sentence here "I was told more than once that Robert Kraft did tell Bill Belichick that he wasn’t allowed to trade or release Tom Brady. However, I was also told that if Belichick had brought it up, he would have been discouraged from doing so.").

Upshot is: there is smoke here, but not enough to blow things up.
I think Curran's piece was amended. Here is how it reads this morning

I was told more than once that Robert Kraft didn't tell Bill Belichick he wasn’t allowed to trade or release Tom Brady. However, I was also told that if Belichick had brought it up, he would have been discouraged from doing so.
This makes a LOT more sense.
 

tims4wins

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If I know anything about Bill Belichick, I'd wager if it was true that he wanted to keep Jimmy, but had his hand forced by Kraft to trade him on Brady's request, he'd fucking walk out of the door instantly. Does he really seem to be the kind of person that would tolerate that?
Totally agree
 

tims4wins

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The only part of this whole thing I even give any consideration to is Kraft vetoing BB. I don’t particularly buy that BB wanted to dump Brady - I think they ride off into the sunset together, or within a short span of each other; I don’t buy the ‘BB wants to prove...’ crap - but I’ve maintained since this discussion started that Kraft would never let Brady leave on anything but his own terms. He’s quite frankly the definition of the exception to the rule. I don’t think for a second that BB would move him either, but that’s at least more open for debate imo. I think they tried to keep JG and (rightfully so) he wanted a paycheck and a starting gig. So next man up.
I give no consideration to this. See Curran's piece. Kraft never told BB that. Said he would discourage such a move, but not veto.
 

Jnai

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Regardless of whether or not the rest of it is true, the pseudoscience being championed by Brady is at this point nothing short of fucking shameful.
 

rodderick

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Regardless of whether or not the rest of it is true, the pseudoscience being championed by Brady is at this point nothing short of fucking shameful.
Yup. I have no doubt it worked for him in some level and he became enamored with the concept, but the way that stuff took over his whole life is crazy, not to mention how slimy the aggressive monetization of every single aspect of the "TB12 method" is. Belichick is absolutely right to be irked if that is seeping over the team and making players hesitant to follow his staff's advice.
 

BaseballJones

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The Guerrero piece of that article is stuff I can believe because it's not just about Brady's personal trainer - it's about something he is so committed to and has staked his future on. So that's naturally going to cause more friction.

It seems like Scientology to me and that worries me.

But if the best player in league history swears by it you gotta let him run with it.

And what if Gronk, who is now on board apparently, goes without major injury for several years using Guerrero? Doesn't make it not pseudoscience but that would likely make the Pats think a little, no?
 

Jnai

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The Guerrero piece of that article is stuff I can believe because it's not just about Brady's personal trainer - it's about something he is so committed to and has staked his future on. So that's naturally going to cause more friction.

It seems like Scientology to me and that worries me.

But if the best player in league history swears by it you gotta let him run with it.

And what if Gronk, who is now on board apparently, goes without major injury for several years using Guerrero? Doesn't make it not pseudoscience but that would likely make the Pats think a little, no?
No. That is not how medicine works.

If reputable people at the Patriots facility think it does, they should lose their jobs.
 

MillarTime

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Read the article - some interesting new wrinkles and I am sure there are kernels of truth, but it largely draws no conclusion and (as others have already mentioned) it's entirely devoid of sources. I don't believe for a minute that BB would still be here if Kraft tried to mandate that he make ANY trade, let alone one involving the most critical position.

At this point, I'm numb to the "the dynasty is ending" articles ESPN continually pumps out. Frankly, it's embarrassing. One of these times they'll be right, but here's hoping the Pats shove #6 up their ass first.
 

Dotrat

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Regardless of whether or not the rest of it is true, the pseudoscience being championed by Brady is at this point nothing short of fucking shameful.
I agree wholeheartedly--and I wonder if at some point the combination of the pseudoscience, TB's cult-like devotion to it, and the relentless, mercenary promotion of the TB12 Method begins to turn off more fans. In my own case, I feel like he's already slid down the slope from 'guy I love rooting for' to 'gifted weirdo I root for regardless of the fact that he's inching closer and closer to the outright charlatan status of figures like Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, or Trump.'
 

tims4wins

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Read the article - some interesting new wrinkles and I am sure there are kernels of truth, but it largely draws no conclusion and (as others have already mentioned) it's entirely devoid of sources. I don't believe for a minute that BB would still be here if Kraft tried to mandate that he make ANY trade, let alone one involving the most critical position.

At this point, I'm numb to the "the dynasty is ending" articles ESPN continually pumps out. Frankly, it's embarrassing. One of these times they'll be right, but here's hoping the Pats shove #6 up their ass first.
http://www.espn.com/new-york/nfl/columns/story?columnist=howard_johnette&id=5078659

April 13, 2010: The New England Patriots' Reign is Over
 

BaseballJones

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No. That is not how medicine works.

If reputable people at the Patriots facility think it does, they should lose their jobs.
No I know that. But medical people in the west often think eastern medicine is bunk. But millions and millions of people swear by it. And in many cases it seems to work.

The claims of Guerrero seem spurious to me and anecdotes are not evidence.

And yet if it seems to work for one guy, and then another, and then another, at some point it goes from coincidence to hey maybe there's something to this, even if it seems wacky.

Anyway I don't want to go further with this... I'm just curious to see if there's any positive impact for Gronk more than anything.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
1. Guerrero is a fraud.
2. Brady is probably a bit naive about his implicit power with the other players and thus acts like a prick especially when he doesn't think he is doing anything. This is the best I can say about the article. Wickersham, though, has Brady as the target in the article. Bill comes off as about what you would expect. Even a passive, uncritical read of this would not take seriously the idea that he is going anywhere.
3. Wickersham can describe a plausible situation almost entirely from whole cloth, and this is an act of rhetorical flair that in other contexts might be admirable.
4. Better journalism requires more concrete sourcing, less speculation, less conjectural reconstruction of past events and the meaning of those events, now impossible to verify.
5. Wickersham's description of the whole series of events around the Jimmy G. trade seems bogus. BB really sat down for hours with Shanahan to coach him up? He is now besties with Roger? OK.....
6. So, all the innuendo about Bill going somewhere seems absurd and, in the end, if Wickersham is right, Tom is not going anywhere either -- he 'won' this little soap opera. So that leave Kraft! Jonathan is planning a coup!
 

Gash Prex

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Seems to me this is taking normal discussions/interactions about succession planning and team building and spinning and sensationalizing them to build a narrative.

You can take any set of facts and add a spin to them to drive any story.
 

j44thor

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No. That is not how medicine works.

If reputable people at the Patriots facility think it does, they should lose their jobs.
I'm not sure medicine is what the TB12 Method should be equated with.

Sports performance history and nutrition is littered with bad decisions and is constantly evolving. I'd give Brady at least a 10% chance of actually being on to something. Just because some of the methods appear clearly flawed (concussion water) doesn't mean other practices, particularly as it relates to the importance of recovery, can't be beneficial.

Calling someone a quack just because they don't ascribe to the societal norms or current day exercise science/nutrition doesn't seem reasonable to me given how poor a track record nutrition and exercise science has had. Hell it only took 40 or so years for nutritionists to finally agree sugar is really, really bad for you.

Nutrition guidelines have been flawed for years and are still far from optimal. If modern day medicine spent 10% of their R/D on optimizing human nutrition instead of simply "fixing" sick people we would be much, much better off. Of course it is a lot more profitable to fix sick people than optimize healthy people so that is very unlikely to ever happen.
 

RG33

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Jesus, reading that hurt my head.

So, all of a sudden Tom is a whiny, insecure guy who worries about “Patriot of the Week Awards” and gets hurt by BB pointing out his missed throws in film sessions?

It was such a contrived attempt at creating a controversy.

We’re onto the Divisional Round . . . .
 

RG33

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I'm not sure medicine is what the TB12 Method should be equated with.

Sports performance history and nutrition is littered with bad decisions and is constantly evolving. I'd give Brady at least a 10% chance of actually being on to something. Just because some of the methods appear clearly flawed (concussion water) doesn't mean other practices, particularly as it relates to the importance of recovery, can't be beneficial.

Calling someone a quack just because they don't ascribe to the societal norms or current day exercise science/nutrition doesn't seem reasonable to me given how poor a track record nutrition and exercise science has had. Hell it only took 40 or so years for nutritionists to finally agree sugar is really, really bad for you.

Nutrition guidelines have been flawed for years and are still far from optimal. If modern day medicine spent 10% of their R/D on optimizing human nutrition instead of simply "fixing" sick people we would be much, much better off. Of course it is a lot more profitable to fix sick people than optimize healthy people so that is very unlikely to ever happen.
Yeah, I don’t get the hate on the “pseudoscience”. I mean, as the article even states, what the TB12 method is about #1 being preventative in nature, and focusing on bandwork instead of weight lifting (hurts joints is the theory), a vegetable based diet, stretching and massaging both before and after playing, staying as hydrated as possible, and making the body as pliable as possible. I get the concussion water stuff as being “quackery”, but everything else seems. . .. kind of. . . . Common sense that it would be helpful?
 

Ed Hillel

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No I know that. But medical people in the west often think eastern medicine is bunk. But millions and millions of people swear by it. And in many cases it seems to work.

The claims of Guerrero seem spurious to me and anecdotes are not evidence.

And yet if it seems to work for one guy, and then another, and then another, at some point it goes from coincidence to hey maybe there's something to this, even if it seems wacky.

Anyway I don't want to go further with this... I'm just curious to see if there's any positive impact for Gronk more than anything.
Yeah, I don’t really see a big deal. I don’t think much anything Brady has said about how he focuses his workouts or conducts his diets is all that controversial, outside of the stupid concussion hydration claim. Willie McGinest seems about as reasonable and down to Earth as they come and he raved about the guy. Nink was on the radio the other day and had positive things to say, as well. If pro athletes want to try a different approach to how they handle their bodies, I’m not going to call them all lunatics, absent evidence of them actually doing loony things.

This seems more like Yoga than Scientology.
 

joe dokes

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Seems to me this is taking normal discussions/interactions about succession planning and team building and spinning and sensationalizing them to build a narrative.

You can take any set of facts and add a spin to them to drive any story.

That's how I read it. Also, given the unprecedented nature of their run, the Kraft-Brady-Belichick dynamic is sort of like saying there was friction among the astronauts who set a record for amount of time in the space station. He is trying to jam this situation into a template that doesn't exist.

BB let Wilfork go. Wilfork KISSED Kraft before every game.

I do think Guerrero -- who I think is butthurt and is probably a source -- has a bit of Dr. Landy in him.
 
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RoyHobbs

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The Wickersham wiki bio entry made me laugh. "Senior Journalist" should be changed to "Senior Storyteller" - what wiffleballhero wrote above in his point #4 is dead on.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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If you haven't spent the 10 minutes reading through the article...don't waste the 10 minutes.

This has nothing to do with Patriot fan vitriol. The voyeur in me was kind of hoping for something interesting in the article to drive discussion and conversation. This is sports, at the end of the day, who cares? It's about the entertainment.

This piece...was not that. Let me save you the time.

Guerrero story you already heard: unnamed sources say he's devisive.

Brady has a fragile ego as he's aged: unnamed sources say he doesn't like BB yelling at him anymore, didn't help JG.

Kraft told BB to trade JG: unnamed sources...from a meeting only Kraft and BB were in.

BB only cares about his legacy and is upset that there is no heir to TB12: more unnamed sources.

Sprinkle in consistent and thinly-veiled comments every 3 paragraphs about cheating (a similarity of BB and TB12, dont ya know!), ego, remorse (all the Patriots know they're fucked without JG, even Kraft!), and you got yourself some ESPN Pats porn! New England fans will digest it because it's about their team, the rest of the NFL fans will click it because it's proof that the Patriots are crumbling so their team could be next king of the mountain.

Just typing this made me realize how much of a piece of shit this article really was. Christ, dont waste your time.
 

splendid splinter

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I really won’t be surprised at all if Seth and Dan’s “Powerball” book drops with a few weeks of this article, making it clear this was just a marketing ploy to get his name and the “NFL power struggles” plot line in the news.
 

TheoShmeo

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I'm not sure medicine is what the TB12 Method should be equated with.

Sports performance history and nutrition is littered with bad decisions and is constantly evolving. I'd give Brady at least a 10% chance of actually being on to something. Just because some of the methods appear clearly flawed (concussion water) doesn't mean other practices, particularly as it relates to the importance of recovery, can't be beneficial.

Calling someone a quack just because they don't ascribe to the societal norms or current day exercise science/nutrition doesn't seem reasonable to me given how poor a track record nutrition and exercise science has had. Hell it only took 40 or so years for nutritionists to finally agree sugar is really, really bad for you.

Nutrition guidelines have been flawed for years and are still far from optimal. If modern day medicine spent 10% of their R/D on optimizing human nutrition instead of simply "fixing" sick people we would be much, much better off. Of course it is a lot more profitable to fix sick people than optimize healthy people so that is very unlikely to ever happen.
I don’t know what AG is exactly, and I find the above to be plausible. And I think that it’s absurd to call Brady’s behavior to be shameful.

I think it’s easy to believe that Tom truly believes that the TB12 methods have made a huge difference in the latter phases of his career and his unprecedented success at age 40. Never mind his extraordinary success at ages 37-39. Likewise, I have no trouble with the idea that Tom believes that what he’s doing can legitimately benefit other players and average joes. That he wants to make the popularization of those methods his calling now and after he retires is a natural extension of those beliefs.

So what’s the problem? The “money grab”? If you don’t want to buy his products, don’t. Just like no one forces one to pay $10 for a beer at a concert or pay inflated prices at Fenway for food. Bottom line, I have no problem with Tom choosing to make money on something he clearly believes in.

Shameful would be him selling stuff he knows is bogus. Tom may be wrong and the TB12 Method may be horseshit. But he sure seems sincere if you listen to him repeatedly discuss this in radio interviews. And whatever he is doing is clearly working. That is, unless you buy that he’s just a freak of nature and would have had this success if he was working out normally and eating bon bons.
 

loshjott

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That's how I read it. Also, given the unprecedented nature of their run, the Kraft-Brady-Belichick dynamic is sort of like saying there was friction among the astronauts who set a record for amount of time in the space station. He is trying to jam this situation into a template that doesn't exist.

BB let Wilfork go. Wilfork KISSED Kraft before every game.
What group of highly driven, hyper-competitive, extremely successful people won't have friction over a period of nearly two decades? If Kraft, Belichick, and Brady were always on the same page about everything, that would not be plausible.
 

mikeot

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At this point, I'm numb to the "the dynasty is ending" articles ESPN continually pumps out. Frankly, it's embarrassing. One of these times they'll be right, but here's hoping the Pats shove #6 up their ass first.
Oh hell yes.
 

joe dokes

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Anyone here ever have a text exchange with a best friend in which each gripes about their spouse in the way we all do with our best friends. That's what this is. And Wickersham grabs those and talks about your impending divorce.
 

joe dokes

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What group of highly driven, hyper-competitive, extremely successful people won't have friction over a period of nearly two decades? If Kraft, Belichick, and Brady were always on the same page about everything, that would not be plausible.

Andy Dalton and Marvin Lewis never have friction.