This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots

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j44thor

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KC is an interesting comp to NE in that their draft picks on the offensive side of the ball have been about as bad recently. The big difference being Mahomes/Kelce and they invested a lot in the OL but when you look at the picks like CEH instead of Taylor or Swift, Mecole Hardman before DK, Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin and trading for Toney who looks like a huge bust.
 

mauf

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The Pats took their cap medicine in 2020 after TB12 left, made the playoffs in 2021, and had a win-and-in game Week 18 last year. And people are comparing the current state to the situations in Denver and Carolina. Some of y’all have lost your minds.

The historic rule of thumb is that three years without a playoff berth gets an NFL head coach fired. BB will get at least that much rope. There’s zero chance he isn’t the coach next year, unless he doesn’t want to be.

Whether that’s good or bad is debatable. BB’s track record is unrivaled, but I think it’s hard to argue he did a good job coaching last year’s team, and it’s looking like he followed that with a dud of an off-season. It’s hard to feel good about the direction of the team, even as the on-field results haven’t been bad for a team without a franchise QB.
 
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mauf

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KC is an interesting comp to NE in that their draft picks on the offensive side of the ball have been about as bad recently. The big difference being Mahomes/Kelce and they invested a lot in the OL but when you look at the picks like CEH instead of Taylor or Swift, Mecole Hardman before DK, Dionte Johnson and Terry McLaurin and trading for Toney who looks like a huge bust.
The draft isn’t quite a crapshoot, but I think it has been 20 years since anyone was able to build anything like a sustained competitive advantage in the draft. Everyone who is good enough to stick around a long time will therefore have their share of bad drafts.
 

Eddie Jurak

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If Pat Mahomes gets a career ending injury tomorrow... how many years of around 500 do you think Andy Reid gets... he's the closest comp in the league for BB... I bet 7-9, 10-7, 8-9 without a QB and his seat isn't even a little warm. Bill needs to be signifincatly worse than 500 this year and at least 1, but probably 2 more to be worried.

being around 500 and making the playoffs 1 out of 3 years.... that's how most of the non-elite QB teams live.
I think he has a much shorter leash than that, partly due to his age and partly due to his own past success. Bob Kraft's team was the best in the NFL for a 19 year period. That's a long time. There is a limit to how many years of treading water he will tolerate - and we're on year 4.
 

Toe Nash

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Ryland has done well, and Folk was very limiting. He was accurate but just not on par with the majority of NFL kickers. I mean the guy hit the cross bar from 48 yards last year. Ryland's misses in the Jets game were weather and snap affected. They've also asked him to kick a lot of long FGs. I think he'll be OK.
I don't think Folk was the answer but there may be other kickers available (including perhaps Ryland himself) for a later draft pick or free that would be fine. But like I said this isn't a huge deal.
 

tims4wins

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Ryland misses again, Folk still perfect.

Another miss by BB in the draft.

They’ve been outscored 45-0 off turnovers this year.

If it weren’t for the 6 rings, I think the coach and GM would be fired tonight.
 

Traut

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The last time they were this bad, Dick MacPherson was on the sideline.
 

Eddie Jurak

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21-0 is the Pats worst start of the year. I think at this point it is fair to wornder if the team has packed it in. If so this should be BBs last year.
 

jsinger121

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it clearly should be his last year. There is hardly a lick of high end talent on this team and frankly I don’t trust him to draft it.
 

RedOctober3829

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This can’t continue. Bad football, poor coaching, inadequate talent. I think this is the end for Bill. Can’t trust him to rebuild this team when he’s put them in this position with terrible drafts on offense and bad FA signings.
 

RorschachsMask

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I am about the least reactionary person there is, but for the first time, I’m wondering if Bill is the guy to turn the franchise around.
 

Euclis20

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I am about the least reactionary person there is, but for the first time, I’m wondering if Bill is the guy to turn the franchise around.
Same. I thought there was no chance that he'd ever be fired, but if the team quits on him (certainly a possibility), I don't see how they avoid it.
 

jsinger121

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All good things come to an end. Tom Landry, Don Shula and soon to be Bill Belichick. You don’t go out on your own terms unless you retire after a Super Bowl win like Bill Walsh. Noll was the exception.
 

RorschachsMask

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Same. I thought there was no chance that he'd ever be fired, but if the team quits on him (certainly a possibility), I don't see how they avoid it.
I’ve spent years on the other side of this argument, too. But as stubborn as I am, this team is a reflection of Bill. I won’t get into him as a GM, but the team is starting to make a lot more stupid mistakes on the field, which is also a poor reflection of coaching.
 

cornwalls@6

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They’re not a very talented team, but the utter lack of any kind of focused, intense response to last weeks debacle rings big alarms about Bill as coach right now. I’ve been pretty non- reactionary about it, but leaning more and towards thinking his time here needs to end. I hope he makes the decision himself before he is officially fired. Respect and appreciation forever for everything he accomplished, but all things end eventually.
 

The Mort Report

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If BB really wants that win record(needs 30 to take sole lead), he's going to leave on his own. Hell, Andy Reid is only 49 behind him, if Bill stays here and Mahomes stays upright he might pass him in 5 years
 

Harry Hooper

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This team is in desperate need of a rebuild. At his age, it is easy to surmise that BB doesn't want to be a part of a big rebuild. But they're a bad team and it needs to happen with or without him. I wonder if that's what gets him to decide to step away.
He seems to have planned to do a sizable rebuild given the small number of salary commitments going forward.
 

cshea

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If BB really wants that win record(needs 30 to take sole lead), he's going to leave on his own. Hell, Andy Reid is only 49 behind him, if Bill stays here and Mahomes stays upright he might pass him in 5 years
We don’t know his contract status but unless he’s a FA, he can’t just leave.

That said I’m ready for a reboot. Thanks for the 6, Bill.
 

k-factory

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Fields may still end up being a bust but one could argue that decision to not trade up was BB just not being adaptable. You can’t win without a pocket passer but to compete in the modern NFL you need a Fields kind of athlete.
BB has stayed true to his approach which served him well but all these ‘missteps’ in the draft are a result of a rigidity that no longer serves the team well.
 

Euclis20

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Meanwhile the Steelers keep getting written off and keep pumping out winning seasons.
The Pats have been to 3 super bowls since the Steelers last won a playoff game. There's some hope in Pit this year, but lets not pretend like Tomlin has looked like an all-time great recently. They've managed not to bottom out (I could've said the same about the Pats before today), but they also haven't been relevant for the better part of a decade.
 

Traut

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This was an ugly loss for an ugly team. Their next 3 games are LAV, BUF, and MIA. At best they will be 2-6 heading into November. And very likely 1-7.

We are now 3 years post Brady and heading in the wrong direction.

The misses in the draft and free agency fall squarely at the feet of GM Belichick.

The sloppiness of play that we have seen the last 2 seasons falls squarely at the feet of Bill Belichick.

Looking at their remaining schedule the only game they could even be possibly favored is against the Giants and Broncos.

They are losing certainly to the Chiefs, Bills 2x, Dolphins, and Steelers. And almost certainly losing to Indy, Washington, San Diego and the Jets. Losing out wouldn't surprise me except it's the NFL and they may win a game against NYG, LAV, and/or DEN.

At best this team is 4-13 and it wouldn't surprise me to see them go 2-15. Neither result is acceptable.

It's time for a change.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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There’s some here who claim that teams would give up a bounty to acquire Belichick. If that’s truly the case (I’m just a bit skeptical), given all the holes in the roster and all the cap space, then trading him seems like a no brainer. If he hangs on long enough to get the win record somewhere else, so be it. I think most fans are more interested in team records, not individual ones, anyways.
 

Harry Hooper

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There’s some here who claim that teams would give up a bounty to acquire Belichick. If that’s truly the case (I’m just a bit skeptical), given all the holes in the roster and all the cap space, then trading him seems like a no brainer. If he hangs on long enough to get the win record somewhere else, so be it. I think most fans are more interested in team records, not individual ones, anyways.
Didn;t Bob Kraft say exactly that recently?
 

The Mort Report

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We don’t know his contract status but unless he’s a FA, he can’t just leave.

That said I’m ready for a reboot. Thanks for the 6, Bill.
Fair on the contract, but I would guess if he wants out Kraft would oblige him even if he wants to keep him. Definitely seeing it mutually beneficial because yeah, I'm ready for a reboot.
 

Seels

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Fields may still end up being a bust but one could argue that decision to not trade up was BB just not being adaptable. You can’t win without a pocket passer but to compete in the modern NFL you need a Fields kind of athlete.
BB has stayed true to his approach which served him well but all these ‘missteps’ in the draft are a result of a rigidity that no longer serves the team well.
I don't this is true but I did want Fields a ton. An annoying criticism I would have of Belichick is that he's too prone to value rather than impact. The team has needed blue chip talent for a number of years, and we're always trading down and trying to find deals. And that kind of strategy works when you have an otherwise talented team and Tom Brady. It doesn't work on this roster.

I would have wanted them to just trade up and get a no doubt talent any time in the last few years. Justin Jefferson was one pick from them, they needed a WR, but rather than trade up, they trade down and pick Dugger.

They did a similar thing with the Strange pick and Gonzalez picks. Maybe they work out. But they're currently at the point where they have absolutely nothing to show for the last 5 years of first round picks (and yes, I know Gonzalez is injured).
 

Ed Hillel

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This is probably a 7-9 win team with Mac not mentally broken and normal injury luck, but we are basically approaching worst case on both those fronts. That's probably best for the future of the team, as people have said here a million times, it's better to be horrible than mediocre, so here you go. I'm pretty agnostic about whether they go forward and try one more QB cycle with Bill or move on to someone younger, but I can't get on the angry train towards Bill and all the insanity going around (not necessarily here) about how BB didn't play a big role in the 6 SB seasons as a coach and GM etc.

I'm not entirely sure Bill wants to do another rebuild. I don't think he's done done, but he very well might want to go someone with a situation better established at the QB position.
 

Caspir

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Let’s say Bill is done or is cut loose after this year. Do you just go with Mayo? He’s also part of the losing culture since he’s in the org, but defense wasn’t a problem until their two best players got injured in the same game, so maybe?

Who else are you hoping they look at? I don’t know what coaches are available, or whether they just ask Coach Prime to will them to victory with his motivational speeches and swag, but any ideas about who they might want to target?
 

E5 Yaz

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I've occasionally thought that Belichick would end his coaching career at Navy, as a way of honoring his father.
 

rodderick

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Let’s say Bill is done or is cut loose after this year. Do you just go with Mayo? He’s also part of the losing culture since he’s in the org, but defense wasn’t a problem until their two best players got injured in the same game, so maybe?

Who else are you hoping they look at? I don’t know what coaches are available, or whether they just ask Coach Prime to will them to victory with his motivational speeches and swag, but any ideas about who they might want to target?
Look at an offensive mind and let him find and develop his QB. Don't want anything to do with Mayo, defensive coach who doesn't call the defense? No thanks.
 

Silverdude2167

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Fields may still end up being a bust but one could argue that decision to not trade up was BB just not being adaptable. You can’t win without a pocket passer but to compete in the modern NFL you need a Fields kind of athlete.
BB has stayed true to his approach which served him well but all these ‘missteps’ in the draft are a result of a rigidity that no longer serves the team well.
This is a new one. Why did he draft a bust when he could have given up draft capital and drafted a different bust...
 

lexrageorge

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This is a new one. Why did he draft a bust when he could have given up draft capital and drafted a different bust...
I'll never understand the calls for Bill to have drafted Fields. Wasn't happening and wouldn't work.

On topic, there is literally nothing that can be done in season. Moving on from Bill automatically means finding both a GM and head coach, and probably not the same person. Could happen, but unclear that Kraft really wants to go there.
 

boca

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If this season turns out as we all now expect you go to Bill at the end of the year and tell him he’s got to relinquish his GM responsibilities.

If he’s happy to stay on as coach fine but if not you have to move on.
 

IdiotKicker

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The logic is simple. If you can rebuild on the fly like they did from 2010-2014, then you let BB stay. Even 2020-2022 was fine even if it wasn’t ideal. But if you have another rebuild coming up, this year is basically the job interview for it. If they scrape to 7 to 9 wins, then I think you let Bill keep his job. Otherwise, why would you trust Bill to do a rebuild if their record has gotten worse from 2021 to 2022 to 2023? What are you going to do differently so it doesn’t happen again? Because right now, they not even competitive to win another game the eta they are playing this year. That’s the shocking part to me, and that’s not acceptable. They lost a bunch of one score games last year that could have gone either way. This is not that.
 

nattysez

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Let’s say Bill is done or is cut loose after this year. Do you just go with Mayo? He’s also part of the losing culture since he’s in the org, but defense wasn’t a problem until their two best players got injured in the same game, so maybe?

Who else are you hoping they look at? I don’t know what coaches are available, or whether they just ask Coach Prime to will them to victory with his motivational speeches and swag, but any ideas about who they might want to target?
In an interview with Judy Battista from the league meetings this week, Kraft called Mayo a “strong candidate” for that role while noting that the team has “other good people” on hand as well.

In other comments to reporters, Kraft said that “there’s no ceiling on [Mayo’s] ability to be a head coach” and that he he hopes “he’s with us.” Kraft added that he’ll “do everything I can to make” sure that Mayo remains with the Patriots for the long run.
That's from March. I think they're at a minimum giving Mayo a long look if they move on from BB.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/robert-kraft-on-jerod-mayo-strong-candidate-to-follow-bill-belichick-as-head-coach
 

Patriot_Reign

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Pats have a ton of cap space for next year and with what looks like a high draft pick. Let Bill leave of his own "choice" and get new leadership to run the draft and free agency. Seems like the only option now. Insert Mayo as the DC.
 

BigSoxFan

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It sucks that we're here but...I think it's time. The offense is an absolute joke. The hand-selected QB is toast. The OL is somehow even worse than the QB. The skill position guys are all mediocre or worse. The "big" FA signing in JuJu can't do anything remotely useful out there. The defense would probably be fine if not for the injuries. But, it's 2023 and offense is the name of the game.

And the simple reality is that BB has put the Patriots at a competitive disadvantage on offense. And what's with all these chickenshit calls on top of it? Kicking the FG last week on 4th and 1 at the 5. Punting on 4th and 3 down 24-0 from the opponent's 40. Like, what the hell?

Mac Jones isn't the only one who's seeing ghosts out there. Belichick is making strategic mistakes left and right on a seemingly weekly basis now.

The time is now. Give him the dignity of finishing out the year (obviously will happen). If he wants to coach elsewhere, let him find another spot for another 3-4 year run. The guy has been tremendous for 2+ decades but we all have a shelf life and Belichick's goods have spoiled.
 
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