The trouble with Kobe. An Appology

RG33

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It says that per DARKO (perhaps the most respected all in one advanced stat), Kobe and Pierce were nearly identical in value throughout their careers, with Pierce enjoying a slightly longer peak.
Said another way, it says that The Truth is the truth.
 

BaseballJones

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Said another way, it says that The Truth is the truth.
Said another way, Pierce was every bit as good as Kobe when it came to playing basketball in the NBA, even though he doesn't get that kind of credit.
 

Euclis20

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Said another way, Pierce was every bit as good as Kobe when it came to playing basketball in the NBA, even though he doesn't get that kind of credit.
Shaq gave Pierce his nickname, but he gave Kobe a pass into the top 15 all-time of any list, and Wade into the top 35. Pierce didn't have a single all-NBA level teammate in his 20s, a sad fact that will forever deny him his due.
 

Spelunker

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Said another way, Pierce was every bit as good as Kobe when it came to playing basketball in the NBA, even though he doesn't get that kind of credit.
Well, I'd say it's more about knocking Kobe down a ton of pegs: he's the person not being properly rated by a ton of people.
 

ColdSoxPack

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Jul 14, 2005
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Right on cue, the LA Times today reports this:

"Thursday, just hours after the NBA’s trade deadline passes, the Lakers will unveil a Kobe Bryant statue outside their Crytpo.com Arena home and no one — save for a select few — knows how he’ll be memorialized."
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Right on cue, the LA Times today reports this:

"Thursday, just hours after the NBA’s trade deadline passes, the Lakers will unveil a Kobe Bryant statue outside their Crytpo.com Arena home and no one — save for a select few — knows how he’ll be memorialized."
@jezza1918 had this info early this morning. And I dashed off an email to a local LA station that was creaming themselves about Kobe and asked them whatever happened to journalism. Haven't heard back yet
 

dhellers

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Said another way, Pierce was every bit as good as Kobe when it came to playing basketball in the NBA, even though he doesn't get that kind of credit.
Amen. BTW: Pierce's one year on the Wizards should not be forgotten -- he was a force that made a blah team almost good.

I will give Kobe credit for lingering on the Lakers for several years, helping them stay irrelevant.
 

jose melendez

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The extent to which the fact that he was a sexual predator gets dropped down the memory hole really bothers me and it’s not like it’s just in LA where being willfully blind at least kind of make sense.

Is Ben R getting a statue in Pitt?
 

jose melendez

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Lose Remerswaal

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The extent to which the fact that he was a sexual predator gets dropped down the memory hole really bothers me and it’s not like it’s just in LA where being willfully blind at least kind of make sense.

Is Ben R getting a statue in Pitt?
I just wrote to another LA News station. Embarrassing how they are honoring this guy
 

lars10

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Jul 31, 2007
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The statue blows as well.
I think I read it’s only 19’ tall as well? Why three statues? He’s not even the best player of his own franchise.. are there any Shaq, Kareem, Magic or Chamberlain statues.. or three for them as well?
 

Ale Xander

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I think I read it’s only 19’ tall as well? Why three statues? He’s not even the best player of his own franchise.. are there any Shaq, Kareem, Magic or Chamberlain statues.. or three for them as well?
Elgin Baylor and Jerry West deserve more too.
 

Marciano490

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I think I read it’s only 19’ tall as well? Why three statues? He’s not even the best player of his own franchise.. are there any Shaq, Kareem, Magic or Chamberlain statues.. or three for them as well?
Kobe the basketball player. Kobe the girl dad. And Kobe the violent rapist.
 

lars10

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Elgin Baylor and Jerry West deserve more too.
I figured at least Jerry already had the logo.. it's like if Pierce had a statue.. without looking at the 20 other Celtics stars that had come before him. One statue for Kobe is ridiculous (especially with Black Mamba written on it).. no idea what the other two will be for and why they're even being considered let alone created.
 

The Raccoon

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The NBA app on my phone shows 4 categories on top of the home screen:
"Latest"
"Celtics" (which I chose in the config)
"All-Star 2024"
"Kobe's Statue"

Really?! That's the biggest thing in the League right now?
 

Jake Peavy's Demons

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I feel like in 2040, if YouTube and/or TikTok are still around, we'll see young creators make videos entitled something like 'This NBA Hero has multiple statues, yet, only 1 MVP. What happened???'

And then we'll have to hope that with a deeper dive into his career, coupled with advanced stats, over time, Kobe will fade into the background as he rightfully deserves.

That won't stop the current worshippers from reminding the younger generation how he was the GOAT, but maybe that noise will get...quieter.
 

Kliq

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Kobe is the Michael Jordan for people of my generation. That will certainly wane over time as younger generations have their own personal idols (and LeBron and Curry have already been that for the subsequent generation).
 

snowmanny

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There are some relatively small number of NBA players who were considered by consensus , for some span of at least a few years, the obvious best player in the world. I am fuzzy as to whether that list includes Kobe.
 

Euclis20

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There are some relatively small number of NBA players who were considered by consensus , for some span of at least a few years, the obvious best player in the world. I am fuzzy as to whether that list includes Kobe.
I'm baffled that anyone can consider him better than Duncan, whose career nearly overlapped entirely with Kobe's. I get why Kobe would be more popular (played a more entertaining style, with the Lakers) but in terms of who was better, it wasn't that close. By the time the gap started closing between the two, Lebron was far and away the best player in the league:

79326



He'll take an unfair hit because he was never a super efficient offensive player (and he mostly played in an era in which there were very few truly efficient high volume scorers), but Kobe was Derek Jeter levels of overrated defensively. 12 all-defense teams was insane for him.
 

SumnerH

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There are some relatively small number of NBA players who were considered by consensus , for some span of at least a few years, the obvious best player in the world. I am fuzzy as to whether that list includes Kobe.
He won an MVP, so there's a very good case to be made that a lot of people considered him the best that year. But he was never the general consensus “obvious best” the way that, say, Jordan and Lebron were at points in their careers, and there's only about a 3 year window (the seasons starting 2005–2007) when he was even really in the discussion for (non-obviously) best player.

c. 2002 I remember the Lakers were in a postseason game. They had been dominating early but got into foul trouble in the second half and things started tightening up. Bill Walton was commentating, and busted out some Walton-esque purple prose along the lines of “There's an enormous gulf, a wide chasm, an huge gap between the Lakers and every other team in the NBA, and right now that chasm is sitting on the bench.” He was referring to Shaq, who was in the middle of a 13 season streak of top-10 in the MVP voting (8 of them top-5), and was clearly considered the better player on those teams and up through 2004–2005, when Shaq was great in his first year with the Heat while Kobe struggled in his first year without Shaq and post-rape allegations (and lingering knee concerns).

And Duncan was better than Shaq.

By 2005, Lebron is on the scene; you can make a case for Kobe as the best player in one of the 2005–2007 years, but it's not an obvious consensus (Lebron, Garnett, Nowitski, Nash, and Duncan in some/all of those years, and Lebron was probably better than Kobe by a decent margin). And by 2008 if anyone was the consensus best, it was Lebron.
 

Euclis20

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He won an MVP, so there's a very good case to be made that a lot of people considered him the best that year. But he was never the general consensus “obvious best” the way that, say, Jordan and Lebron were at points in their careers, and there's only about a 3 year window (the seasons starting 2005–2007) when he was even really in the discussion for (non-obviously) best player.

c. 2002 I remember the Lakers were in a postseason game. They had been dominating early but got into foul trouble in the second half and things started tightening up. Bill Walton was commentating, and busted out some Walton-esque purple prose along the lines of “There's an enormous gulf, a wide chasm, an huge gap between the Lakers and every other team in the NBA, and right now that chasm is sitting on the bench.” He was referring to Shaq, who was in the middle of a 13 season streak of top-10 in the MVP voting (8 of them top-5), and was clearly considered the better player on those teams and up through 2004–2005, when Shaq was great in his first year with the Heat while Kobe struggled in his first year without Shaq and post-rape allegations (and lingering knee concerns).

And Duncan was better than Shaq.

By 2005, Lebron is on the scene; you can make a case for Kobe as the best player in one of the 2005–2007 years, but it's not an obvious consensus (Lebron, Garnett, Nowitski, Nash, and Duncan in some/all of those years, and Lebron was probably better than Kobe by a decent margin). And by 2008 if anyone was the consensus best, it was Lebron.
It's interesting to note that from 2005-2007, the Lakers were 121-125 and didn't win any playoff series. When he wasn't playing alongside an all-NBA level center, his teams were the definition of average.