The Special Ones (manager talk)

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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This is a catch-all thread (we may have had before?) and I'd love to have some in-depth talk of many facets of managers. That said, I thought of the question (and couldn't think of a thread to put it in)...who is a shittier manager- Scott Parker or Frank Lampard?
 

thehitcat

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This is a catch-all thread (we may have had before?) and I'd love to have some in-depth talk of many facets of managers. That said, I thought of the question (and couldn't think of a thread to put it in)...who is a shittier manager- Scott Parker or Frank Lampard?
Only one is friendly with noted humanitarian John Terry. Point (to the good) Parker
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Parker seems to be a more than workable Championship manager (promoted twice!) who gets aggressively found out at any levels more advanced than that.

Lampard might be about the same, although he didn’t get promotion in his Derby season so maybe worse. He’s odious though because he keeps getting jobs above what he reasonably deserves because of his playing fame, compared to Parker who seems to be pretty much playing the game.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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Parker has promoted two teams that had Premier League rosters...neither team played inspiring football. I watched Fulham a bunch and did follow Bournemouth's journey from afar (not nearly as closely) and was not impressed. But you're right- that still gives him a leg up on Lamps.

I think his ability to win at the Championship level with the best team and then fail in the PL shows exactly what a limited manager he is- no plan B, no adjustments, etc. I certainly wouldn't hire him to manage a mid-table Championship squad.
 

thehitcat

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Parker has promoted two teams that had Premier League rosters...neither team played inspiring football. I watched Fulham a bunch and did follow Bournemouth's journey from afar (not nearly as closely) and was not impressed. But you're right- that still gives him a leg up on Lamps.

I think his ability to win at the Championship level with the best team and then fail in the PL shows exactly what a limited manager he is- no plan B, no adjustments, etc. I certainly wouldn't hire him to manage a mid-table Championship squad.
Which means he's almost certain to be at Reading at some point in the next two seasons.
 

Kliq

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Parker at Fulham, IIRC correctly, they really squeaked into the EPL as detailed above, and they did the thing where they radically bought a bunch of players to try and change the squad into a different, presumably more EPL-ready, outfit. That immediately didn't work, a lot of the signings busted out, and they had a rash of injuries at CB that contributed to them falling hopelessly into the relegation zone pretty early, and that was pretty much it for Parker.

Under Silva, Fulham built a much more powerful squad in the Championship, ran away with the top spot to win promotion, and without adding all that much, played very well last season in the EPL.
 

Zososoxfan

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We did have a previous thread, but who cares. Bump!

One thing I think we discussed was different types of managers for different clubs. Saying Pep is the best manager really isn't a complete thought. For instance, do you think that Pep managing a club like Wolves, Brentford, or Palace last year changes their position in the table? Pep is the best manager at taking elite talent and getting the best out of them. If you're in an EPL relegation scrap, give me Sean Dyche every day. Is the employing club trying to promote youth players and sell first team players for profit? Then Pep or Dyche might not be the right manager.
 

the1andonly3003

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We did have a previous thread, but who cares. Bump!

One thing I think we discussed was different types of managers for different clubs. Saying Pep is the best manager really isn't a complete thought. For instance, do you think that Pep managing a club like Wolves, Brentford, or Palace last year changes their position in the table? Pep is the best manager at taking elite talent and getting the best out of them. If you're in an EPL relegation scrap, give me Sean Dyche every day. Is the employing club trying to promote youth players and sell first team players for profit? Then Pep or Dyche might not be the right manager.
Does Wrexham go after Pep and give him the challenge of bringing them up to the PL once his contract is up in 2025?
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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I’ve always kind of enjoyed the Jose show- on and off the pitch. Never for it’s beauty, but for it’s defiant success in the face of the orthodoxy. But he really goes too far sometimes and that’s a thoroughly deserved ban.
 

rguilmar

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Jul 16, 2005
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Story in The Athletic about another great and unique soccer mind; Marcelo Bielsa

https://theathletic.com/4632965/2023/06/22/marcelo-bielsa-chile-uruguay/?source=user_shared_article

The obligatory fun story about Bielsa choosing to live at the training facility while managing Chile:

When they reached the corner flag of the south goal, Bielsa stopped and asked Mayne-Nicholls if he could live inside the training ground. Mayne-Nicholls told Bielsa that he could live wherever he wanted, but that the training ground didn’t have a movie theater, restaurants or shopping.

Bielsa didn’t answer. He simply pointed at the mountains that were in clear view.

“I still have that image so clear in my mind,” Mayne-Nicholls said. “Bielsa told me, ‘I would not forgive myself if I didn’t see this mountain every morning when I wake up.’ So for three years, he lived there in a room where there was a bed, a small place to put your stuff, a very small closet, a very small TV. Maybe eight square meters.”
 

rguilmar

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A preview of what to expect at Bournemouth this season under Iraola. It seems like there was a degree of surprise among PL fans at the change, and I can assure the same is true in Spain as Andoni is considered the next great Spanish manager. His Rayo Vallecano took 10 points off of Barcelona over the last two seasons.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/jun/23/andoni-iraola-bournemouth-tactics-rayo-vallecano

Unlike the typical small, promoted team, Rayo did not park the bus; instead, they took it for a ride, and it was wild…

The pitch is divided into sectors, individual responsibilities imposed. The analysis is profound, data analysed and acted upon, the apparent anarchy nothing of the sort. Organised chaos may be one way of putting it and it’s a description Iraola likes. In fact, he says: “I prefer too much chaos to too much organisation. I prefer to play at a high pace, even if it means a touch of hastiness, than play at a lower pace and have a bit more control.” Only one side won the ball more than them in La Liga last year; only one team lost it more too...Xavi called them the biggest pain in the arse in La Liga.

The stats reinforce the eye test. This past season the three players with the most high-intensity sprints in Spain play for Rayo: the winger Álvaro García and the full-backs Fran García and Iván Balliu. Only Bayern Munich forced more high turnovers leading to shots in Europe’s big five leagues. In Spain, only Barcelona and Athletic, spent more time in the opposition’s half. Only Athletic put more balls into the box. No one played more long passes. Alejandro Catena, a central defender, completed more than anyone else. Only four teams made more chances, only five had more shots, only two goalkeepers made fewer saves.
 

the1andonly3003

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Mourinho quit his UEFA positions after the ban

CP is keeping Hodgson. How many retirements will that guy have??? I'm sorry, but Palace seems to have no plan. Viera was supposed to be their path to the future and they quickly decided no
 
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Vinho Tinto

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Mourinho has 20 year track record of nuking his jobs after 24-30 months. Roma should have a shortlist of replacements already prepared.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Jul 22, 2006
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Mourinho has 20 year track record of nuking his jobs after 24-30 months. Roma should have a shortlist of replacements already prepared.
There was a lot of talk that he wanted to bolt after the victory at the Europa final but, well...the actual game threw a wrench into that project. He has a job for life at Roma right now- in the fans' eyes he can do no wrong, but you're right in that he always finds a way to sink the ship.
 

the1andonly3003

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There was a lot of talk that he wanted to bolt after the victory at the Europa final but, well...the actual game threw a wrench into that project. He has a job for life at Roma right now- in the fans' eyes he can do no wrong, but you're right in that he always finds a way to sink the ship.
he has a way with fans (except for Spurs fans) that he just wins them over
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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Just how can you move up when you're managing Real Madrid? What could possibly be an improvement?

66982
Not yet: he still has a season to go on his RM deal - he will take over Brazil for the CA.
 

rguilmar

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With the upcoming Bournemouth-Arsenal match, there was a nice article in The Athletic about managers hailing from Gipuzkoa. Both managers come from this tiny Basque province, the smallest in all of Spain. Along with Iraola and Arteta, both Unai Emery and former Wolves manager Julen Lopetegui (is it too late to get an interview for the USMNT job?) are from the province. So is arguably the hottest managing commodity in the world right now, Xabi Alonso, who is already rumored to be the next manager at Real Madrid. If you don’t watch La Liga, you might not be aware of the tremendous work by another manager from Gipuzkoa, Imanol Alguicil, but the manager who stayed at home might be the best manger in Spain right now. Jagoba Arrásate, a very successful manager at Osasuna whose teams play a rock-and-roll style not too different from Iraola, isn’t from Gipuzkoa but spent a lot of time there.

Must be something in the sand at La Concha beach in San Sebastián where most of these guys grew up playing.
 

rguilmar

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I see that Julen Lopetegui is the manager of choice as replacement for whoever is on the hot seat: Cooper, ETH. Does this mean Boehly pre-emptively sacks Poch to get the former Wolves manager?
Moving this over to the manager thread. I'm a huge fan of Lopetegui in the right circumstances. First, the negatives. He has a history of butting heads with sporting directors when he gets limited or no say in transfers or the overall club vision, which is why the Real Madrid job was destined to fail and also why he has been so good as an international manager (why US Soccer refused to give him an interview back is one of my may frustrations with the federation). His greatest error, and one that he has been rightly criticized and fired for, was taking the Real Madrid while still the manager of Spain prior to World Cup 2018. I have no problem with a manager lining up post WC jobs, but it cannot be one that could impact their player selections while with the national team. Plus, as Spain manager there are three particularly polarizing coaching jobs out there, and he picked one of those.

I'm guessing he wants absolutely nothing to do with any potential job at Stamford Bridge. Throwing money at him won't help either- he just turned down a huge offer to manage in Saudi Arabia. The Sevilla job is likely about to open up, but I doubt he wants to go back there after the fans pretty much forced him out last season despite several wonderful seasons. Plus, Monchi is gone. I have no clue what the Manchester United position would look like post sale (or 25% sale or whatever it ended up being) and the front office shakeup. Forest seems like a club in pure chaos, at least from the outside, so I'm not sure it's an attractive option for a guy who should have plenty of options this winter.

Tactically and stylistically, Lopetegui likes his teams to create through the midfield, wingers who are technical and crafty. He likes to press high then fall back to a mid block. He wants to control the game through possession, and yes, actually disorganize the opponent with the ball. The CBs need to be very strong because they end up exposed pretty often. The reason Sevilla started so poorly last season was because they sold both CBs and were an aging team who could no longer physically do what Lopetegui demanded. This year Sevilla fielded the oldest starting 11 in Champions League history. People that follow the Premier League more closely might have a better idea if any potential vacancy fits his tactics and if a club will give him more control over personnel.
 

the1andonly3003

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Moving this over to the manager thread. I'm a huge fan of Lopetegui in the right circumstances. First, the negatives. He has a history of butting heads with sporting directors when he gets limited or no say in transfers or the overall club vision, which is why the Real Madrid job was destined to fail and also why he has been so good as an international manager (why US Soccer refused to give him an interview back is one of my may frustrations with the federation). His greatest error, and one that he has been rightly criticized and fired for, was taking the Real Madrid while still the manager of Spain prior to World Cup 2018. I have no problem with a manager lining up post WC jobs, but it cannot be one that could impact their player selections while with the national team. Plus, as Spain manager there are three particularly polarizing coaching jobs out there, and he picked one of those.

I'm guessing he wants absolutely nothing to do with any potential job at Stamford Bridge. Throwing money at him won't help either- he just turned down a huge offer to manage in Saudi Arabia. The Sevilla job is likely about to open up, but I doubt he wants to go back there after the fans pretty much forced him out last season despite several wonderful seasons. Plus, Monchi is gone. I have no clue what the Manchester United position would look like post sale (or 25% sale or whatever it ended up being) and the front office shakeup. Forest seems like a club in pure chaos, at least from the outside, so I'm not sure it's an attractive option for a guy who should have plenty of options this winter.

Tactically and stylistically, Lopetegui likes his teams to create through the midfield, wingers who are technical and crafty. He likes to press high then fall back to a mid block. He wants to control the game through possession, and yes, actually disorganize the opponent with the ball. The CBs need to be very strong because they end up exposed pretty often. The reason Sevilla started so poorly last season was because they sold both CBs and were an aging team who could no longer physically do what Lopetegui demanded. This year Sevilla fielded the oldest starting 11 in Champions League history. People that follow the Premier League more closely might have a better idea if any potential vacancy fits his tactics and if a club will give him more control over personnel.
oh oops...I put it in the broadcasting thread....

it looks like Graham Potter and Zidane also entered the ETH's rumor mill

Eddie Howe's seat is also getting hot...
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Jan 10, 2004
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Moving this over to the manager thread. I'm a huge fan of Lopetegui in the right circumstances. First, the negatives. He has a history of butting heads with sporting directors when he gets limited or no say in transfers or the overall club vision, which is why the Real Madrid job was destined to fail and also why he has been so good as an international manager (why US Soccer refused to give him an interview back is one of my may frustrations with the federation). His greatest error, and one that he has been rightly criticized and fired for, was taking the Real Madrid while still the manager of Spain prior to World Cup 2018. I have no problem with a manager lining up post WC jobs, but it cannot be one that could impact their player selections while with the national team. Plus, as Spain manager there are three particularly polarizing coaching jobs out there, and he picked one of those.

I'm guessing he wants absolutely nothing to do with any potential job at Stamford Bridge. Throwing money at him won't help either- he just turned down a huge offer to manage in Saudi Arabia. The Sevilla job is likely about to open up, but I doubt he wants to go back there after the fans pretty much forced him out last season despite several wonderful seasons. Plus, Monchi is gone. I have no clue what the Manchester United position would look like post sale (or 25% sale or whatever it ended up being) and the front office shakeup. Forest seems like a club in pure chaos, at least from the outside, so I'm not sure it's an attractive option for a guy who should have plenty of options this winter.

Tactically and stylistically, Lopetegui likes his teams to create through the midfield, wingers who are technical and crafty. He likes to press high then fall back to a mid block. He wants to control the game through possession, and yes, actually disorganize the opponent with the ball. The CBs need to be very strong because they end up exposed pretty often. The reason Sevilla started so poorly last season was because they sold both CBs and were an aging team who could no longer physically do what Lopetegui demanded. This year Sevilla fielded the oldest starting 11 in Champions League history. People that follow the Premier League more closely might have a better idea if any potential vacancy fits his tactics and if a club will give him more control over personnel.
I guess Chilwell and James could be the "technical and crafty wingers," if they could stay healthy, but otherwise it doesn't sound like Chelsea's current squad can play that style (or any other really, despite their bloat).
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Say what you will about the Special One, he’s always good for a quote.

José Mourinho: “Tottenham was a club that has an empty trophy room and then sacks me two days before a final. I mean, come on…”

https://x.com/fabrizioromano/status/1736568271883669780?s=46&t=XvGOrrWIyL-5CHVVL_0JYQ
Mourinho's time there was ugly by the end but that remains a totally insane decision. At that point Mourinho was 12-1 lifetime in major cup finals, the best manager of his generation at cynically negating dominant sides like they one they were about to play, and they opted to let Ryan Mason try to break the long trophy draught instead.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Mourinho's time there was ugly by the end but that remains a totally insane decision. At that point Mourinho was 12-1 lifetime in major cup finals, the best manager of his generation at cynically negating dominant sides like they one they were about to play, and they opted to let Ryan Mason try to break the long trophy draught instead.
Maybe they were terrified he’d win - thus making it really difficult to sack him?
 

Zomp

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Say what you will about the Special One, he’s always good for a quote.

José Mourinho: “Tottenham was a club that has an empty trophy room and then sacks me two days before a final. I mean, come on…”

https://x.com/fabrizioromano/status/1736568271883669780?s=46&t=XvGOrrWIyL-5CHVVL_0JYQ
Here is the full interview. I’ve always found Mourinho incredibly charming and this interview does bogging to change that perception

View: https://youtu.be/DSmbrA9z6zI?si=rqntAfF03nAKG7L9