the Red Sox Mount Rushmore

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

I remember reading that Nixon once told an aide, "I take advice unquestioningly from two people: George Washington, who founded this republic, and Lincoln, who saved it. All others had better prove their case."

Yaz is the Lincoln of Mt Soxmore. Sustained and renewed the franchise and propelled them into an era of peace and prosperity.

 
 
I voted for Yaz on Mt. Soxmore, for all of the reasons cited in Bergs' post above (and more), but I would argue that it was Pedro who did more than anyone to finally push the Sox over the top into the "era of peace and prosperity."  By 1997 they were backsliding-they finished 1997 six games below .500, and had only one (brutally short) playoff appearance in 7 years.  They traded for Pedro and made him the highest paid pitcher in baseball history at that time, and he delivered. Under immense pressure, he was arguably the best (certainly the most charismatic) pitcher in baseball.  He gave them a player to build around, especially with the attitude he brought to the team.   If he had faltered, they never would have chased guys like Manny and Damon, and it is unlikely that we get 2004.  His success gave Dan Duquette and Theo the ability to be aggressive and get guys that put them over the top.  

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

 
Here's the 55 offenders as of now:
 
21st Century Sox
Arroyo Con Frijoles
Beomoose
Bierman9
BigA27
BigMike
blueline
BosRedSox5
brownbob
Buckner's Boots
cardiacs
cmac24
Dan to Theo to Ben
DaveRoberts'Shoes
Deweys Stache
DrewDawg
Drocca
ebenson49
Euclis20
ExtremelyEasyEd
fineyoungarm
Grunherz54
jcaz
jekay
Jimbodandy
justbored
Lars The Wanderer
LeastSculptedJew
loafnut
lurker42
MainerInExile
Maximus
mt8thsw9th
MTSox
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt
nayrbrey
NeedleNose
Nemo
OilCanShotTupac
oumbi
PaulinMyrBch
pearldive
quintus
Rasputin
Reggie's Racquet
RGREELEY33
Rice4HOF
robertst
Rooster Crows
Sam Ray Not
Schnerres
SMU_Sox
StuckOnYouk
Tharkin
zitrodivad
 
 
DRS and Ras are particularly disappointing.

 
Looking at that list of mouthbreathers buttresses my point rather well.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

I voted for Yaz on Mt. Soxmore, for all of the reasons cited in Bergs' post above (and more), but I would argue that it was Pedro who did more than anyone to finally push the Sox over the top into the "era of peace and prosperity."  By 1997 they were backsliding-they finished 1997 six games below .500, and had only one (brutally short) playoff appearance in 7 years.  They traded for Pedro and made him the highest paid pitcher in baseball history at that time, and he delivered. Under immense pressure, he was arguably the best (certainly the most charismatic) pitcher in baseball.  He gave them a player to build around, especially with the attitude he brought to the team.   If he had faltered, they never would have chased guys like Manny and Damon, and it is unlikely that we get 2004.  His success gave Dan Duquette and Theo the ability to be aggressive and get guys that put them over the top.  

 
There's not a bigger fan of Pedro on this site than I am.  His brilliance is what got me into sports fandom in the first place.  But I think 8slim already made the argument:
 

Average attendance at Fenway Park:
 
1961:  10,437
1962:  9,164
1963:  11,710
1964:  10,905
1965:  8,052
1966:  10,014
1967:  21,331
1968:  23,960
1969:  22,633

 

Pedro is what gave us enough credibility to finally put us over the top, but when he signed we already had Nomar, D-Lowe, Varitek, and 30 years with the highest # of winning seasons in the majors in that span.  Yaz put us back onto the baseball-universe map in the first place, after 15-20 years of obscurity and laughingstock status.
 
The analogous US President to Pedro is probably James K. Polk.  Or Eisenhower.

 

[SumnerH]

The analogous US President to Pedro is probably James K. Polk.

 
Having won a ring, he sought no second term.

 

[HurstSoGood]

Yaz, Ted and David were easy for me. The fourth was tough, but I am comfortable with my pick. I obviously know who Johnny Pesky is, but I had never really looked at his career numbers. Simply amazing. The guy lost his age 24-26 seasons due to serving in WW2 from '43-'45. Led the league in hits in '42, '46 and '47. Over his 8 years with the Sox, he still batted .313 with a .401 OBP. For his career, he walked 662 times, compared to only 218 K's!!! Considering how most of us feel about Pedroia (and him bleeding red/playing the right way, etc), it doesn't feel like a stretch to look at Pesky's love, loyalty and respect in the same way.
 
 
Pedro is the greatest pitcher I have ever seen and would be the frontrunner for my 5th pick. He may not be my President, but he is my George S. Patton.

 

[Reverend]

I remember reading that Nixon once told an aide, "I take advice unquestioningly from two people: George Washington, who founded this republic, and Lincoln, who saved it. All others had better prove their case."

Yaz is the Lincoln of Mt Soxmore. Sustained and renewed the franchise and propelled them into an era of peace and prosperity.

 
Thank you for getting the joke and explaining it to EF.

 

[AB in DC]

No surprises here.
 
http://nesn.com/2015/07/red-sox-franchise-four-announced-during-all-star-pregame-ceremony/

 

[Sampo Gida]

I voted before reading the thread and agreed with the consenus. Pedro, Ted, Yaz and Papi
 
might be a bit easier to do it by era
 
1996-2015
Papi, Manny, Pedro, Pedroia-Nomar
 
1976-1995
Fisk, Evans,  Rice, Boggs-Clemens
 
1946-1975
Yaz, Williams, Pesky, Doerr-Tony C
 
X-1945
Cy Young, Speaker, Foxx, Cronin
 
Even then hard to limit it to 4.  I only have direct memories from 67-onward.  Those guys provided a lot of good ones, and a few bad ones (Tony C)  even if the team was not always at the same level.    

 

[WalletTrack]

Williams
Yaz
Matinez
Ortiz
 
*Greatest  hitter whoever lived
*Greatest season ever
*Greatest game ever pitch
*Greatest clutch hit ever

 

[FanSinceBoggs]

I voted for Williams, Yaz, Boggs, and Ortiz.  I wanted to select Pedro but then decided to go with all hitters. That should cover almost every decade starting with Williams in the 1940s.  Williams in the 1950s.  Yaz in the 1960s and 1970s.  Boggs in the 1980s.  Boggs leaves in 1992 and so there is about a ten year gap until Ortiz's arrival.

 

[Rasputin]

I voted for Williams, Yaz, Boggs, and Ortiz.  I wanted to select Pedro but then decided to go with all hitters. That should cover almost every decade starting with Williams in the 1940s.  Williams in the 1950s.  Yaz in the 1960s and 1970s.  Boggs in the 1980s.  Boggs leaves in 1992 and so there is about a ten year gap until Ortiz's arrival.

 
You know, for such an epic douchenozzle, Boggs was tremendous. I don't think I have ever seen anyone with his ability to foul balls off until he got one he liked. I think he swung and missed like five times a season. Maybe I'm romanticizing the past, but when he got hot and hit about .450 for a month or so, it was really something. Fireballer, junkballer, lefty, righty, it didn't matter. He'd foul balls off like they were wasting his time--effortlessly and with a heaping teaspoon of disdain.

 

[Rovin Romine]

 
You know, for such an epic douchenozzle, Boggs was tremendous. I don't think I have ever seen anyone with his ability to foul balls off until he got one he liked. I think he swung and missed like five times a season. Maybe I'm romanticizing the past, but when he got hot and hit about .450 for a month or so, it was really something. Fireballer, junkballer, lefty, righty, it didn't matter. He'd foul balls off like they were wasting his time--effortlessly and with a heaping teaspoon of disdain.

 
And really, was he that much of a douche?   I know about the whole Margo thing, going to the Yanks to get a ring, Tampa Bay Hat, etc., but it seems that Boggs is a perfect example of the Boston media taking a set against a player.  He was, as far as I recall, "celebrated" in kind of a ho-hum way.  Yet he was an epic hitter who upgraded his defense through hard work.  Wasn't he constantly ragged on for refusing to "hit for power"?
 
If he had gone anywhere but the AL East afterward, I'm not sure he's viewed in such a bad light by Boston fans. 

 

[Super Nomario]

Boggs is a douche because while he "willed himself invisible" to escape a knife fight, he never used those powers to become a vigilante super-hero.
 
Douche, I dunno, but definitely a weird dude.

 

[Saints Rest]

I think in today's environment, not only would Boggs have been seen as an even larger dick/douche/ass, he would have been hugely valued by his outrageously high OBP, OPS, OPS+, WAR, etc

 

[luckysox]

I emulated everything I did as  softball player after Boggs when I was young. I tried to copy his stance and his ability to foul balls off (though from the right side), I played 3B, and my proudest achievement as a high school player was not striking out, ever, on the varsity team. All of that was because Boggs was my favorite player.
 
He literally broke my 19 year old heart when he signed with the Yankees.  But that's not why he didn't make the top 4 for me (I'm in the Ted, Yaz, Pedro, Papi camp). It's just simply that the 4 guys I chose were/are, at least arguably, just as good as Boggs, and they meant more to the Franchise. 

 

[AB in DC]

I'm with the camp that says Teddy, Yaz, and Papi are no-brainers.
 
 
My real problem with Pedro is that he only spent seven years with the Sox.  That's a pretty big negative when it comes to a Mount Rushmore player.
 
Except that many of the other candidates have the same problem.  Tris Speaker only played nine years with the Sox. Cy Young played eight, but the franchise didn't even exist for the first half of his career, so there's that.  Johnny Pesky played less than than eight years in Boston, but maybe his non-playing career with the Sox puts him over the top.  I don't know.
 
Roger Clemens -- 13 years -- would seem to be the next guy in line based on stats alone.  But I wouldn't vote for him either.
 
Jim Rice -- 16 years -- would be next on longevity, but didn't have the same kind of peak as other players on the list.
 
Wade Boggs -- 11 years -- is another candidate.  I didn't realize that he the league in OBP for six out of seven straight years.  But the off-field stuff makes it hard.  He always seemed to be respected but not loved.
 
 
Honestly, I would rather have just the big three on our Mount Rushmore.  Leave the fourth spot open to the next great Red Sox star.

 

[lexrageorge]

 
And really, was he that much of a douche?   I know about the whole Margo thing, going to the Yanks to get a ring, Tampa Bay Hat, etc., but it seems that Boggs is a perfect example of the Boston media taking a set against a player.  He was, as far as I recall, "celebrated" in kind of a ho-hum way.  Yet he was an epic hitter who upgraded his defense through hard work.  Wasn't he constantly ragged on for refusing to "hit for power"?
 
If he had gone anywhere but the AL East afterward, I'm not sure he's viewed in such a bad light by Boston fans. 

There was a row between Boggs and Clemens when Boggs got an error changed to a hit.  I personally took the "pox on both houses" side on that one, but it reinforced the self-absorbed image that both players cultivated during their time in Boston.  There were rumors, never confirmed, that Boggs tended to blow off hit-and-run signs from the dugout when he was at bat. 
 
He had great stats, and was a generational hitter.  He also benefited greatly from hitting doubles off The Monster, and his career home/road splits bear that out, a fact that some of his critics used against him.  I knew a lot of NL fans were convinced that Boggs would just be another 0.290 hitter in the NL.  And, through no fault of his own, he never had that "signature moment" that Fisk or Papi could claim.  Life ain't always fair, as they say. 

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

My real problem with Pedro is that he only spent seven years with the Sox.

 
I think this is a bit like saying that the problem with Beethoven is that he only wrote nine symphonies.

 

[Al Zarilla]

 
I think this is a bit like saying that the problem with Beethoven is that he only wrote nine symphonies.

Sandy Koufax had just four stellar years, one excellent and seven average years in his career with the Dodgers. 
 
Gale Sayers had just five full great seasons and just four other games with the Bears.

 

[AB in DC]

On the other hand, Terrell Davis was great for three years -- off-the-charts great for two of them -- but he's never getting into the HoF.

 

[bosockboy]

On the other hand, Terrell Davis was great for three years -- off-the-charts great for two of them -- but he's never getting into the HoF.

 
Kurt Warner will though....maybe a better example.  I think if Davis had one more off the charts year he'd get in.