The Process: Philadelphia 76ers (2013 to 2023)

Cellar-Door

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Not a fan of tanking in theory but practically speaking - particularly in the NBA - it's super rational. As you point out, teams need a superstar in the NBA to compete, and if a team doesn't have one, it's either FA or draft. And while MIL and DEN both got super lucky, the odds of drafting a superstar outside the top 5 aren't great (yes it happens but it doesn't happen frequently).

To me, the real problem is that the draft incentivizes losing. We've talked over a variety of threads of how to address that but I don't have any easy answers.
I think "tanking" makes some sense, I think "the Process" was a mistake, because it didn't recognize how teams that tanked built. Most of those teams quite quickly surrounded their new star with talent and vets, built to best take advantage of their abilities.... also, a lot of teams who tanked never won anything either. Cleveland got the best prospect since... Kareem? They didn't win a single title in his 7 years. Other prominent tank teams in the last 10 years... Charlotte, New Orleans, Orlando, Minnesota..... most teams that tank and end up with a bunch of top 5 picks.... don't win titles.

If anything recent champions (2012-2022)
 

chrisfont9

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I just listened to the Lombardi thing with Simmons….pretty clear he’s an NFL guy and not an NBA guy. The stuff he was pushing just doesn’t fly in the NBA and NBA stars are way more coddled than NFL stars.

I posted about this in another thread but I think the whole thing is much more simple than Simmons and Lombardi want to pontificate about. Rivers and Morey are whiners…when the entire leadership of the team loves to whine and point fingers, your team is going to do that too. (Plus Embiid and Harden are incredible grifters and that’s not as effective in the playoffs)
I'd say NBA stars have way more power, for good reason. They aren't coddled, they have actual control because they know how much more important they are to the team than the coach, GM, etc.
 

chrisfont9

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I think "tanking" makes some sense, I think "the Process" was a mistake, because it didn't recognize how teams that tanked built. Most of those teams quite quickly surrounded their new star with talent and vets, built to best take advantage of their abilities.... also, a lot of teams who tanked never won anything either. Cleveland got the best prospect since... Kareem? They didn't win a single title in his 7 years. Other prominent tank teams in the last 10 years... Charlotte, New Orleans, Orlando, Minnesota..... most teams that tank and end up with a bunch of top 5 picks.... don't win titles.

If anything recent champions (2012-2022)
It's actually remarkable how few lottery picks really work out. Even some "can't miss" guys like Zion Williamson have missed (so far). We should be (and mostly are I think) grateful to Ainge for absolutely nailing two consecutive #3 picks, plus nabbing the extra pick in the process. Anyway, tank away if you must, but it's not an automatic pathway back to success.
 

ifmanis5

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The Process ends with Embiid to the Knicks (with a career ending leg injury after he signs a huge contract) and the 50 cent pieces Philly gets back never getting to the Finals.
 

BigSoxFan

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Philly clearly ain’t moving Embiid. That isn’t how their owners operate but if they actually did, feels like Orlando would have the pieces.

Carter/Isaac match the salaries, they have #6 and #11 in this year’s draft, can offer a young guy like Suggs (although he sucks), and future picks.
 

tims4wins

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Philly clearly ain’t moving Embiid. That isn’t how their owners operate but if they actually did, feels like Orlando would have the pieces.

Carter/Isaac match the salaries, they have #6 and #11 in this year’s draft, can offer a young guy like Suggs (although he sucks), and future picks.
How would Embiid and Banchero be as a pairing?
 

nighthob

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Philly clearly ain’t moving Embiid. That isn’t how their owners operate but if they actually did, feels like Orlando would have the pieces.

Carter/Isaac match the salaries, they have #6 and #11 in this year’s draft, can offer a young guy like Suggs (although he sucks), and future picks.
That’s like 25¢ on the dollar. I think Philly could do better than that.
 

Auger34

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Philly clearly ain’t moving Embiid. That isn’t how their owners operate but if they actually did, feels like Orlando would have the pieces.

Carter/Isaac match the salaries, they have #6 and #11 in this year’s draft, can offer a young guy like Suggs (although he sucks), and future picks.
That feels kind of light honestly (unless the future picks are a bunch of unprotecteds).

If Embiid really demanded to be traded, Orlando is a possibility, Portland (Simons/Sharpe/Nurk/3 and 23 plus more picks), New Orleans (a ton of picks, McCollum, Dyson Daniels, Valanciunas) maybe Memphis? (Basically every pick and player not named Ja, Jaren or Bane)

New York and Miami would obviously be mentioned but I would bet a decent amount of money that Morey doesn’t think too much of Herro and Barrett.

There really aren’t a lot of obvious teams that can go get a player the caliber of Embiid. And some of them that might be mentioned (I’m thinking specifically Brooklyn here) wouldn’t be any good after getting him so what’s the point?
 

BigSoxFan

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That’s like 25¢ on the dollar. I think Philly could do better than that.
Well, for starters, they could demand Wagner, which Orlando would probably do to get a guy like Embiid. But, truthfully, I don’t see a lot of landing spots here. Embiid is great but how much longer is he going to be great? You need to find a team that has the assets to deal and have something meaningful left around Embiid. Not a long list.

The most obvious answer to me out west is OKC with their huge stock of picks and young players.
 

BigSoxFan

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That feels kind of light honestly (unless the future picks are a bunch of unprotecteds).

If Embiid really demanded to be traded, Orlando is a possibility, Portland (Simons/Sharpe/Nurk/3 and 23 plus more picks), New Orleans (a ton of picks, McCollum, Dyson Daniels, Valanciunas) maybe Memphis? (Basically every pick and player not named Ja, Jaren or Bane)

New York and Miami would obviously be mentioned but I would bet a decent amount of money that Morey doesn’t think too much of Herro and Barrett.

There really aren’t a lot of obvious teams that can go get a player the caliber of Embiid. And some of them that might be mentioned (I’m thinking specifically Brooklyn here) wouldn’t be any good after getting him so what’s the point?
Yup. One team that I mentioned just now is OKC, if Presti is willing to cash in his chips. But don’t think he’d do it for a near-30 Embiid.
 

Auger34

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Well, for starters, they could demand Wagner, which Orlando would probably do to get a guy like Embiid. But, truthfully, I don’t see a lot of landing spots here. Embiid is great but how much longer is he going to be great? You need to find a team that has the assets to deal and have something meaningful left around Embiid. Not a long list.

The most obvious answer to me out west is OKC with their huge stock of picks and young players.
OKC, Utah and San Antonio basically control the draft for the next 3 years (New Orleans to a lesser extent). None of those teams are exactly where superstars want to go
 

BigSoxFan

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OKC, Utah and San Antonio basically control the draft for the next 3 years (New Orleans to a lesser extent). None of those teams are exactly where superstars want to go
Spurs are an intriguing option. I can't imagine Embiid would have any problem playing for Pop and with Wembanyama. In fact, it would be hilarious if the Spurs put together another elite twin tower pairing. And with Pop being like 74, could the team be motivated to give him a more veteran-laden team? Problem the Spurs have is that they don't really have a headliner young player that Philly could sell to its fan base. Picks are nice but they're risky and trading Embiid for someone like Keldon Johnson and a ton of picks would just be killed in the Philly media.
 

lovegtm

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Spurs are an intriguing option. I can't imagine Embiid would have any problem playing for Pop and with Wembanyama. In fact, it would be hilarious if the Spurs put together another elite twin tower pairing. And with Pop being like 74, could the team be motivated to give him a more veteran-laden team? Problem the Spurs have is that they don't really have a headliner young player that Philly could sell to its fan base. Picks are nice but they're risky and trading Embiid for someone like Keldon Johnson and a ton of picks would just be killed in the Philly media.
The Spurs future picks/swaps would be extremely low EV with Wemby in the mix, so I don't think this can work.

It's easier for aging teams to get stars in their AllThePickz deals, since everyone knows those unprotecteds could end up super-valuable.
 

BigSoxFan

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The Spurs future picks/swaps would be extremely low EV with Wemby in the mix, so I don't think this can work.

It's easier for aging teams to get stars in their AllThePickz deals, since everyone knows those unprotecteds could end up super-valuable.
The Spurs have more than their own though, like the picks they got from Atlanta for Murray.