The Home Grown Red Sox

BaseballJones

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It's not always cut-and-dried as to whether a player should be categorized as "home grown", because a player may have spent five years in another team's minor league system and then traded to your team during his last year of AAA before getting promoted to the majors. So technically he made it to your team as a promotion from your team's minor league system, but was he really "home grown"? For the sake of discussion, I'm going to say YES to that question, that as long as the player ends up on your major league club via promotion from your minor league system, that qualifies as "home grown" (unless they had major-league time with a previous club). That being said, here are the Sox' major league players - the bolded are "home grown".

C - Vazquez
1b - Moreland
2b - Chavis
3b - Devers
SS - Bogaerts
LF - Benintendi
CF - Bradley
RF - Betts

DH - Martinez
C - Leon
IF - Nunez
IF - Pedroia*
IF - Pearce
U - Holt*
IF - Travis
IF - Lin


SP - Sale
SP - Price
SP - Porcello
SP - Rodriguez
SP - Eovaldi
SP - Velazquez
RP - Walden

RP - Brasier
RP - Hembree
RP - Workman
RP - Barnes

RP - Thornburg
RP - Weber

So the pitching staff is mostly *not* home grown, but the position players are. And the starting lineup - when Vazquez is in - is 7/9ths home grown. Look at that group of young (or young-ish) home grown position players: Vazquez, Chavis, Devers, Bogaerts, Benintendi, Bradley, and Betts. That's a very exciting and talented return on the investment in the farm system the of the past half dozen years or so.

Potentially coming through the pipeline in the next few years (there will always be surprises):

3b Dalbec (AA Portland)
LHP Hernandez (AA Portland)
SS Chatham (AA Portland)
LHP Groome (injured)
RHP Feltman (AA Portland)
CF Duran (A Salem)

Obviously not all these guys will make it, and right now some aren't putting up good numbers. But the talent is there. And for some of them, their positions in Boston are blocked, like Dalbec and Chatham. So who knows what will happen. The point is that the Sox' farm system has produced a bunch of very very good major league talent the past half-dozen years and that's exciting to see.


Edited to include Walden.
 
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BaseballJones

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Walden. Brasier. Weber.

And Travis isn't on the big club, nor likely to return imho.
I debated about including Travis and Lin, but they have been with the big league club this year and likely will see more time at some point due to injury, etc.

Brasier doesn't qualify, as he had major league experience with the Angels in 2013. Weber pitched for Atlanta in 2015-16, Seattle in 2017, and Tampa Bay in 2018, so he also doesn't qualify. Walden does qualify, though I had to think about him because his MLB debut was so late in his career, relatively speaking, and the Sox got him before the 2017 season (at age 28) after spending 9 years in other organizations' minor league systems. But yeah, he technically qualifies I guess. Brasier and Weber don't though.
 

DrewDawg

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Walden, Brasier and Weber all reached the majors before getting promoted there by the Red Sox.
Walden did not appear in the bigs until with the Sox last year, however is it really "home-grown" if he's bounced around professional ball for 9 years before the Sox signed him?
 

BaseballJones

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Walden did not appear in the bigs until with the Sox last year, however is it really "home-grown" if he's bounced around professional ball for 9 years before the Sox signed him?
Right, that was my dilemma with him. I originally didn't include him for that very reason, but just edited the OP to include him. He did spend all of 2017 and most of 2018 in the Sox' farm system. In 2018 he pitched with the Red Sox early and then was sent back down for the rest of the season in May. So he's a tough call.
 

DrewDawg

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Another interesting twist is including which players were acquired by trading homegrown assets--in other words, Chris Sale is obviously not homegrown, but his acquisition was paid for with homegrown talent.

That's meaningful as well. When people say "Oh, why can't we develop pitchers!!!" it's a fair argument to say that while it would be awesome to have everyone come through our system, turning those assets into other players is a sign of a strong system as well.
 

bosox79

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Walden did not appear in the bigs until with the Sox last year, however is it really "home-grown" if he's bounced around professional ball for 9 years before the Sox signed him?

Is EdRod really home grown? The Orioles did all most of the work.

Edit: With the qualifier he is. I just disagree with what homegrown means. To me, it's the team that originally signed him.
 
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richgedman'sghost

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How bout Holt and Hembree? I consider them homegrown even though they might have a smidgen of time with other major league teams.
 

Al Zarilla

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Is EdRod really home grown? The Orioles did all most of the work.
BaseballJones made a decision on that and explained it in the opening post, going with yes, a guy is considered home grown if he makes his MLB debut with Boston even if all of his minor league experience except his last year of it was with another team.
 

bosox79

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If you include Travis and Lin, you should also include Brian Johnson, especially since he's actually on the MLB squad. You could probably add Bobby Poyner, Travis Lakins and Darwinzon since they pitched in the Majors this year.
 

Saints Rest

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Like who? Which of the non-bolded guys were actually home grown? Hmmm...Walden maybe?
Weird. When I looked at it on the app, only a few names were bold, and obvious ones like the Killer B's were not. But looking now on a computer, all looks right.
Proving once again that either A) the app sucks or B) I am an idiot.
(Spoiler Alert: I'm leaning A this time.)
 

Mugsy's Jock

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If i’m not mistaken, Walden DID make it to the Blue Jays major league team, got in uniform, stood for the anthem(s), had a few days of major league meal money, all that. He just didn’t get into a game.

Funny how every possible exception exists for any question you try to pose. i don’t mean to nitpick Baseball Jones’ typically interesting post though.
 

ookami7m

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Rather than quibbling over who is/isn't or where the cut off is I find it far more interesting to compare this iteration of the Sox to previous years:

03-04 for example had Tek, DLowe, Nomar, Nixon, Ortiz(certainly this version of him) and that's really about it for "homegrown" guys (Lesser roles to Abe Alvarex, Cesar Crespo, Daubach(technicality?), DiNardo, and Youkilis).

07 had Buchholz, Delcarmen, Ellsbury, Lester, DiceK and Okajima (technicality?), Papelbon, Ortiz, Pedroia, Tek and Youkilis.

13 had JBJ, X, Buchholz, Ellsbury, BROCKHOLT, Lester, Middlebrooks, Nava, Ortiz, Pedroia, Tazawa and Workman

Obviously a good bit of this is due to the shifting economic realities of baseball and the emphasis on homegrown talent and controllable contracts. I expect that we won't see a team like the 03/04 Sox or late 90s MFY teams built on primarily FA acquisitions.
 

shaggydog2000

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If i’m not mistaken, Walden DID make it to the Blue Jays major league team, got in uniform, stood for the anthem(s), had a few days of major league meal money, all that. He just didn’t get into a game.

Funny how every possible exception exists for any question you try to pose. i don’t mean to nitpick Baseball Jones’ typically interesting post though.
As close to playing in the majors you can be without actually playing in the majors. That's pretty nuts. Imagine if it had ended there for him? What would he have told people who asked? He can't say he played in the majors, but he could say he made it there.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Sorry, but under no possible definition is David Ortiz homegrown.
Yeah, if we're going to quibble over Walden's eligibility because he had a non-playing cup of coffee or he "bounced around" the minors for a long time, no way does a guy who had 3+ years of service time elsewhere qualify as "homegrown".
 

BaseballJones

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Yeah, if we're going to quibble over Walden's eligibility because he had a non-playing cup of coffee or he "bounced around" the minors for a long time, no way does a guy who had 3+ years of service time elsewhere qualify as "homegrown".
I just think that it's almost impossible to know where exactly to draw the line, as I mentioned in the OP. If you get drafted by the Yankees and get traded to the Royals after one year and then spend 7 more years in KC's minor league system before they bring you up....are you a Yankees' "home grown" or a Royals' "home grown"? Seems like Royals to me. But I get that everyone may have a different perspective on that.
 

E5 Yaz

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I just think that it's almost impossible to know where exactly to draw the line, as I mentioned in the OP.
It's case by case, clearly.

And it's not impossible at all to reject the notion that David Ortiz was home grown
 

ledsox

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Was just thinking of this (homegrown talent) and then opened SOSH. Damn impressive. 7 of 8 position players now. All under 30 years old. All with either a B or V in their name.
 

dhappy42

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This is the all-home-grown team:

C: Vazquez
1B: Rizzo
2B: Moncada
3B: Devers
SS: Bogaerts
LF: Reddick
CF: Benintendi
RF: Betts
DH: Chavis
Bench: Bradley, Swihart, Lowrie,
IL: Pedroia

SP: Lester, Buchholz, Sanchez, Kopech, Montas
RP: Barnes, Workman, Velazquez, Alex Wilson, Noe Ramirez, Jose Alvarez, Beeks, Buttrey, Pressly

Edit: Removed Johnson (not on 25-man roster). Added Beeks, Buttrey and Pressly
 
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bosox79

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I'd take Ty Buttrey over most of those guys. Jalen Beeks too. SSS or not.
 

dhappy42

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Yes, Pressly, Buttrey and Beeks too.

Great lineup and bullpen. Starting pitching falls off after Lester and Montas, who’s having a good year.
 
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Bergs

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Rather than quibbling over who is/isn't or where the cut off is I find it far more interesting to compare this iteration of the Sox to previous years:

03-04 for example had Tek, DLowe, Nomar, Nixon, Ortiz(certainly this version of him) and that's really about it for "homegrown" guys (Lesser roles to Abe Alvarex, Cesar Crespo, Daubach(technicality?), DiNardo, and Youkilis).

07 had Buchholz, Delcarmen, Ellsbury, Lester, DiceK and Okajima (technicality?), Papelbon, Ortiz, Pedroia, Tek and Youkilis.

13 had JBJ, X, Buchholz, Ellsbury, BROCKHOLT, Lester, Middlebrooks, Nava, Ortiz, Pedroia, Tazawa and Workman

Obviously a good bit of this is due to the shifting economic realities of baseball and the emphasis on homegrown talent and controllable contracts. I expect that we won't see a team like the 03/04 Sox or late 90s MFY teams built on primarily FA acquisitions.
Ortiz as homegrown is a stretch. Like, a really big stretch. 455 games with MIN.
 

dhappy42

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Ortiz as homegrown is a stretch. Like, a really big stretch. 455 games with MIN.
A reasonable definition of “home grown” is any player the team drafted or who spent at least three years developing in the team’s minor league system. And international amateur signings.
 

Saints Rest

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Rather than quibbling over who is/isn't or where the cut off is I find it far more interesting to compare this iteration of the Sox to previous years:

03-04 for example had Tek, DLowe, Nomar, Nixon, Ortiz(certainly this version of him) and that's really about it for "homegrown" guys (Lesser roles to Abe Alvarex, Cesar Crespo, Daubach(technicality?), DiNardo, and Youkilis).

07 had Buchholz, Delcarmen, Ellsbury, Lester, DiceK and Okajima (technicality?), Papelbon, Ortiz, Pedroia, Tek and Youkilis.

13 had JBJ, X, Buchholz, Ellsbury, BROCKHOLT, Lester, Middlebrooks, Nava, Ortiz, Pedroia, Tazawa and Workman

Obviously a good bit of this is due to the shifting economic realities of baseball and the emphasis on homegrown talent and controllable contracts. I expect that we won't see a team like the 03/04 Sox or late 90s MFY teams built on primarily FA acquisitions.
Tek and DLowe are borderline for "homegrown." Tek played 20 games in the Sox system (all at PAW) and Lowe played in 4 (also all at PAW).
 

ookami7m

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Ortiz as homegrown is a stretch. Like, a really big stretch. 455 games with MIN.
A reasonable definition of “home grown” is any player the team drafted or who spent at least three years developing in the team’s minor league system. And international amateur signings.
I admitted as much a stretch on him. But the Ortiz the Red Sox had was not the same guy the Twins released. Be it through team approach or whatever. It's a bridge too far though.
 

BaseballJones

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Good NESN piece on Jarren Duran:

https://nesn.com/2019/05/its-time-to-talk-about-jarren-duran-red-soxs-most-exciting-prospect/?fbclid=IwAR3KldROJ1hhZgnm9quE8GUDIbg8KL66HX6mvcooyh_NNi2jN5iKjyx7ZPY

Currently at .406/.468/.544/1.012, with 18 steals in 20 attempts. Elite athlete. Came in as an infielder (2b) but projects mainly in the OF. It's entirely possible that the Sox will end up moving on from Bradley after 2020, when Bradley becomes a free agent. If he's ready for the majors at the all-star break next year (which seems very optimistic) they may be able to trade Bradley for something. Or they let Bradley walk and simply promote Duran in 2021. Kid has serious tools - power being something he needs to grow in, but he could perhaps be a 10-12 homer guy who hits .325 every year with 50+ steals and electric athleticism on the base paths and in the field.