The Game Goat Thread: Wk. 3 vs Ravens

SeoulSoxFan

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Oof. Turnovers, turnovers, and more turnovers.

You know what to do. Frustrating loss but I'll take it if Mac escapes with a non-season ending injury.
 

Eddie Jurak

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1. Mac Jones. Mac made a lot of plays today. Maybe more positive and chunk plays than he has made in any other game. Made them running, keeping plays alive, and with his arm. And yet the team was undone by the many bad mistakes he made. A near pick on a TD drive. A pick on a pick action pass because reading defenses is not his thing. Then, later, with the Pats facing 3rd and long in the red zone, down by 5, Mac throws the ball up for grabs and it is picked so they lose the change for a FG. He makes every type of mistake - poor reads, errors of execution, and terrible decisons. Mac throws a third pick late after the game is gone and looks like he is seriously injured on the play. I hope not as bad as it looked, but even before getting hurt Mac, at best, has a very long way to go.

2. Nelson Agholor. Mac's trick-or-treat play and a rare (in second half) defensive stop had the team in it late. Third and long, Mac hits Agholor for a big gain... and the ball is punched out. Up to that point there was a chance.

3. Offensive play calling. The Pats short passing game was a disaster. The Pats running game was decent. In the second half the Pats had to climb out of too many holes caused by failed designed short passes on early downs.
 

heavyde050

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Mac
Agholor
Secondary and tackling - they took some really poor angles on some big Ravens' runs. There were a couple of passes to wide-open guys (not dinging them for two great TD catches though).
 

Ale Xander

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Matty P and his beehive beard
Mac’s IInd half Loungey passes
Agholor
Dmac
Bryant
Lamar Containers
 

Arroyoyo

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Mac
Matt P (has this dude EVER been in our good graces? He never seemed to put together a lights-out defense, so I’m not sure why we think he can do it on offense. His reputation far exceeds his actual abilities as a productive coach).
BB for spending so much money on JAG-at-best bums like Agholor and Jonnu.
 

Arroyoyo

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Next week we get the epic Bailey Zappe vs Aaron Rodgers matchup. Might get flexed to prime time.
 

BaseballJones

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Oof. Turnovers, turnovers, and more turnovers.

You know what to do. Frustrating loss but I'll take it if Mac escapes with a non-season ending injury.
I don't think that last hope of yours is likely. Not from what @radsoxfan seems to be implying in the Mac thread.

I hate to give Mac a goat because he made SO MANY incredible throws and runs under duress, and he got robbed by two terrible no-calls on obvious defensive penalties. But.... 3 INTs...has to get a thumbs down for the game.

Stupid passes in the flat in short yardage situations, so that thumbs down goes to the coaching staff.
 

BaseballJones

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3. Offensive play calling. The Pats short passing game was a disaster. The Pats running game was decent. In the second half the Pats had to climb out of too many holes caused by failed designed short passes on early downs.
The Pats' running game was excellent. 145 yards on 28 attempts (5.2 ypc) and 3 touchdowns, and that yardage didn't come from like one 52 yard breakaway. It was just really good production all game long. I mean, what more do you want?
 

Caspir

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Matt P (has this dude EVER been in our good graces?
It was kind of funny when he wore the Goodell clown shirt after we won the SB.

The worst part of Mac being hurt is that BB might let Patricia and Judge continue to suck next year because they lost their QB.

With Hoyer or Zappe, they win, what, one more game this year?
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Pats' running game was excellent. 145 yards on 28 attempts (5.2 ypc) and 3 touchdowns, and that yardage didn't come from like one 52 yard breakaway. It was just really good production all game long. I mean, what more do you want?
I wanted them to run it more.
 

Ale Xander

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Why Matty P? I thought the play calling was great and the offense looked as good as it could with a QB shitting all over itself. Good protection, good run game, receivers getting open.
Those short passes weren’t there
 

rodderick

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Why Matty P? I thought the play calling was great and the offense looked as good as it could with a QB shitting all over itself. Good protection, good run game, receivers getting open.
Yup. Everything they wanted to do on offense was available the whole game. Guys were open deep, running game was chugging, pass protection was mostly really good. Have very little issues with the offensive coaching, Mac being a dumbass prevented them from scoring 35+.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Why Matty P? I thought the play calling was great and the offense looked as good as it could with a QB shitting all over itself. Good protection, good run game, receivers getting open.
I was watching on TV and I'm not blaming the refs for the loss but did it honestly look like Stevenson was touched down on the 2 point conversion when he pitched the ball back to Jones for the conversion? I was shocked that replay overturned the call. If the Pats get the two points there, then the next drive maybe Jones doesn't feel so desperate for the touchdown and plays for the field goal. Oh well the Pats made too many mistakes today.
We're on to the BZ era I hope. Let's see what he can do. We already know what Brian Hoyer can do and it ain't pretty.
 

cournoyer

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I honestly think had Dugger been out there we win that game. Didn't really have a good answer to Andrews and the rest of the Ravens attack.

I have to pin the goat on Mac today. Made some nice throws for sure but damn there was some sloppy decision making/down field throws. Hard to be confident right now when the offense is out there. Very frustrating game. Hopefully it's not a season ending injury for Mac, there's still some potential on this team to make a push.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Mac made some very good plays but let’s be real. Over and over he personally kept screwing up drives with bad audibles, horrible decisions, and horrific turnovers. This game is 100% on Mac.
 

Ralphwiggum

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For much of the game I thought Mac looked like the guy from last year who had gotten better in the offseason, which I think is what everyone wanted to see in year 2. But, the picks were absolutely horrendous, and he’s lucky he didn’t throw a pick 6 from his own 3 yard line on top of the rest of them.

I don’t think the roster is that talented but you can’t win in the NFL when your QB keeps throwing it to the other team.
 

Preacher

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Mac. That throw to Parker was forced. Has to be a throw away in that situation. Plus the other INTs.

Agholor. That turnover was a backbreaker when they really needed a score.
 

BaseballJones

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Mac showed some real negative issues. He also showed some really positive things. I know it looks like he might be done for the year, which totally sucks. But guys, again..... he's just played the third game of the second year of his NFL career. He's got a lot to learn and a long way to go but guys at this stage of their careers usually make tons of mistakes. It's all part of the growth process. I don't like losing, and I don't like seeing the QB make bonehead plays. But I do like seeing him play with guys and fire and leadership, and make a LOT of absolutely incredible plays today.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Mac. That throw to Parker was forced. Has to be a throw away in that situation. Plus the other INTs.

Agholor. That turnover was a backbreaker when they really needed a score.
Go to the game thread. The pick in the end zone should have been either DPI or illegal contact. The defender completely impeded Parker's path and made all kinds of contact at least 8 yards from the LOS. Mac seemed very upset with no flag and it was a pretty easy call to make, but wasn't made.

The other two turnovers and the one where he lucked out were all bad, plain and simple.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Mac showed some real negative issues. He also showed some really positive things. I know it looks like he might be done for the year, which totally sucks. But guys, again..... he's just played the third game of the second year of his NFL career. He's got a lot to learn and a long way to go but guys at this stage of their careers usually make tons of mistakes. It's all part of the growth process. I don't like losing, and I don't like seeing the QB make bonehead plays. But I do like seeing him play with guys and fire and leadership, and make a LOT of absolutely incredible plays today.
You need to stop. We all have eyes and have given him plenty of rope. Stay optimistic all you want, but trying to constantly trying to convince everyone else everything is ok is getting a bit much.
 

Arroyoyo

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I don’t think people are expect him to be perfect, though. Just not dumb. Today was what, including playoffs, his 21st game?

That’s not a ton, but not showing much progress when it comes to fundamental situational football awareness after 21 games is something to be concerned about. I don’t think criticism at this point is premature.
 

BaseballJones

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You need to stop. We all have eyes and have given him plenty of rope. Stay optimistic all you want, but trying to constantly trying to convince everyone else everything is ok is getting a bit much.
I don't need to stop anything, and you're not the boss of me. Did he, or did he not, make a bunch of great plays today? Is he, or is he not, just 3 games into his 2nd season in the NFL - where most quarterbacks are making gobs of errors?

And who said "everything is ok"?
 

soxin6

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Mac showed some real negative issues. He also showed some really positive things. I know it looks like he might be done for the year, which totally sucks. But guys, again..... he's just played the third game of the second year of his NFL career. He's got a lot to learn and a long way to go but guys at this stage of their careers usually make tons of mistakes. It's all part of the growth process. I don't like losing, and I don't like seeing the QB make bonehead plays. But I do like seeing him play with guys and fire and leadership, and make a LOT of absolutely incredible plays today.
If Mac is seriously hurt, the Pats need to tank and draft a top QB. This team is not good enough to win consistently with a QB with Mac’s limitations and the chances that they will get enough talent to change that before Mac’s rookie deal is over is small.
 

rodderick

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Go to the game thread. The pick in the end zone should have been either DPI or illegal contact. The defender completely impeded Parker's path and made all kinds of contact at least 8 yards from the LOS. Mac seemed very upset with no flag and it was a pretty easy call to make, but wasn't made.

The other two turnovers and the one where he lucked out were all bad, plain and simple.
They let guys play in coverage all game, McCourty committed obvious PI on the Andrews TD in the back of the end zone and no flag came out. Mac lollipopped the ball off his back foot there, it was a terrible throw and decision regardless of the no call.
 

BaseballJones

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I will say that if they get a top pick and somehow can draft Bryce Young, of course I'd be all over that.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I don't need to stop anything, and you're not the boss of me. Did he, or did he not, make a bunch of great plays today? Is he, or is he not, just 3 games into his 2nd season in the NFL - where most quarterbacks are making gobs of errors?

And who said "everything is ok"?
Bunch of great plays? No, he made good plays that you expect a QB to occasionally make. And yeah sure he's in his 3rd game of season 2, not a very interesting stat when his last dozen games have been below average.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Mac showed some real negative issues. He also showed some really positive things. I know it looks like he might be done for the year, which totally sucks. But guys, again..... he's just played the third game of the second year of his NFL career. He's got a lot to learn and a long way to go but guys at this stage of their careers usually make tons of mistakes. It's all part of the growth process. I don't like losing, and I don't like seeing the QB make bonehead plays. But I do like seeing him play with guys and fire and leadership, and make a LOT of absolutely incredible plays today.
The prediction that he'll be good in the long run is certainly credible, if hardly guaranteed. If he's done for the season, a more interesting question is whether you try to scoop up his replacement if you're picking at what is likely to be the most favorable draft spot you'll get over the next three seasons.
 

BaseballJones

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The prediction that he'll be good in the long run is certainly credible, if hardly guaranteed. If he's done for the season, a more interesting question is whether you try to scoop up his replacement if you're picking at what is likely to be the most favorable draft spot you'll get over the next three seasons.
That's a very interesting question indeed. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the Pats were in that situation, if they did just that. Obviously BB would have to think that the next guy has the potential to be better than Mac when all is said and done.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Go to the game thread. The pick in the end zone should have been either DPI or illegal contact. The defender completely impeded Parker's path and made all kinds of contact at least 8 yards from the LOS. Mac seemed very upset with no flag and it was a pretty easy call to make, but wasn't made.

The other two turnovers and the one where he lucked out were all bad, plain and simple.
Jesus Christ man. So if Parker doesn’t get impeded there Mac is throwing a 50/50 ball off of his back foot to the corner of the end zone when they absolutely, positively cannot have a turnover. It was still a shit decision.

And he should have thrown a pick-6 that was a horrendous throw that was flat out dropped. Also in the red zone.

Mac made some good plays today but the bad ones he made outweighed the good and it’s not close. I agree with the assessment that through three games he had regressed from last year, which isn’t ideal from a development perspective. And now he’s likely hurt and out for a while.

Hard to say that the Mac Jones experiment isn’t looking pretty bad at this point. The injury obviously isn’t his fault but he’s made a ton of crap throws through three games, and has shown a propensity for poor decision making.
 

Ale Xander

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Jesus Christ man. So if Parker doesn’t get impeded there Mac is throwing a 50/50 ball off of his back foot to the corner of the end zone when they absolutely, positively cannot have a turnover. It was still a shit decision.

And he should have thrown a pick-6 that was a horrendous throw that was flat out dropped. Also in the red zone.

Mac made some good plays today but the bad ones he made outweighed the good and it’s not close. I agree with the assessment that through three games he had regressed from last year, which isn’t ideal from a development perspective. And now he’s likely hurt and out for a while.

Hard to say that the Mac Jones experiment isn’t looking pretty bad at this point. The injury obviously isn’t his fault but he’s made a ton of crap throws through three games, and has shown a propensity for poor decision making.
QFT
 

BaseballJones

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Bunch of great plays? No, he made good plays that you expect a QB to occasionally make. And yeah sure he's in his 3rd game of season 2, not a very interesting stat when his last dozen games have been below average.
See, now you're underselling the excellent plays he made today. So yeah, that answers my question from the game thread. You're a Mac hater.

Which, of course, you have every right to be, and I understand why you are. I just don't have the same view as you. I think he's got a lot of growing to do, so in no way am I arguing that he's great or anything like that. But I have a higher opinion of him than you do, obviously.
 

heavyde050

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Mac was definitely horrible today and the #1 GOAT, but the defense (especially the secondary and tackling) make the list today. There was some really poor tackling and some wide open receivers.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Mac

Agholor

Offensive play calling (particularly on the fourth down in the first half and the two point conversion attempt)

As soon as Agholor broke free, I shouted, look out from behind. That play unfolded in slo-mo the exact way I thought it would.

Let's not forget, while Mac did make some nice plays around the interceptions, he should've been picked off in the flat before Harris punched it in. While it was nice to see Mac and Parker get going, Mac was a terrible decision maker today. One of the least effective 300 yard games I can recall.

Need more Rhamondre.
 

BaseballJones

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Jesus Christ man. So if Parker doesn’t get impeded there Mac is throwing a 50/50 ball off of his back foot to the corner of the end zone when they absolutely, positively cannot have a turnover. It was still a shit decision.
Was Lamar's 50/50 ball to Andrews a terrible decision? Because he was backpedaling too and under threw it and if McCourty turns around it's an easy INT, but Andrews made a great play. Yes, that should have been DPI as well, but then.....so should this one.

And he should have thrown a pick-6 that was a horrendous throw that was flat out dropped. Also in the red zone.
Already addressed that in the post you quoted which was a terrible, awful pass, as were his other two turnovers. 100%. No argument from me.

Mac made some good plays today but the bad ones he made outweighed the good and it’s not close. I agree with the assessment that through three games he had regressed from last year, which isn’t ideal from a development perspective. And now he’s likely hurt and out for a while.
I agree his bad throws outweighed the good ones, which is why I listed Mac as #1 in post #10 in this thread.
 

Ralphwiggum

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What does Jackson’s throw to Andrews have to do with anything that Mac did? Jackson made some poor throws today too, but because he’s such a dynamic ball carrier you live with that. Mac cannot afford stupid decisions, he’s not gifted enough physically to overcome them.

You seem to very much want Mac Jones to be good. I think all Patriot fans do. Your optimism around him seems to be based mostly on this, though, and not objectively on his play this year, which has been (a) bad and (b) worse than he looked last year.
 

Preacher

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Go to the game thread. The pick in the end zone should have been either DPI or illegal contact. The defender completely impeded Parker's path and made all kinds of contact at least 8 yards from the LOS. Mac seemed very upset with no flag and it was a pretty easy call to make, but wasn't made.

The other two turnovers and the one where he lucked out were all bad, plain and simple.
Agreed on the DPI but once you see your receiver didn’t get over the top of the DB, you shouldn’t try to force that in there. That was also a bit on the OLine because he had no time on that throw.
 

rodderick

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The whole "if McCourty turns around it's a pick on the throw to Andrews" stuff is a bit foolish. QBs are taught that if the defender has his back turned in coverage he can only cover the width of his shoulders. There's a reason guys seldom turn back in those situations, if you do it you lose your man. The decision to throw was made under that premise.
 

Jungleland

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Turnovers just killed them today. Mac made some gutty plays and a handful of the nicest throws he's made in the NFL, but you can't win giving the ball away the way they did today and while the Agholor fumble happened at the worst time, the picks are the primary reason for the loss. For all the discussion of Mac having a pro-ready brain and a borderline arm, the former has hurt them so much more this year. He looks so much more like a rookie than he did most points of last year.

Up: Parker, Stevenson, Wise

The receivers aren't why this team sucks! To my eye, guys are getting open - things look a lot better than they did last year to me.

Down: Mac, safeties

Honestly, not sure what they do if Mac is done for the year and they suck hard enough to be in position to pick a QB. I was as high on Mac as anyone, and if I had to bet right now I still think he can have a good career. But coming out of today's game, things look pretty much opposite how I expected coming into the season in that today I thought they actually looked like a pretty good team being held back by their QB.