The Game Goat Thread: Wk.16 vs Bills

SeoulSoxFan

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A Scud Away from Hell
Once again, everyone gets a goat, emphatically.

For the first time ever, I just feel numb. It's like watching a CFL game. The names are familiar but surreal.

I do feel for that phone.
 

Harry Hooper

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Not a goat, but that official who let the Bills players talk him into the "fumbled" punt reception deserves to be fired.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah, no goats. They are what we thought they were
 

RoDaddy

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1. BB for not starting Stidham
2. Who was not very good anyway but still
3. BB for not starting Stidham
 

Ralphwiggum

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A team headed for the playoffs steamrolled a team that is nowhere near a playoff team. We’ve seen this many times, but not this way for the past 20 years. The team sucks.
 

E5 Yaz

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Stidham did not show any signs of being close to a competent QB.
In a blowout with two starting lineman out and the Bills coming on every play.

I really want them to give him the start against the NYJ, so he practices with the No. 1 reps and starts with a clean slate.
 

McBride11

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I feel bad for the kid, he keeps getting thrown into games where the rest of the team is playing like dog shit, he hasn't prepared as the first string qb, and the other team is really good.
In a blowout with two starting lineman out and the Bills coming on every play.

I really want them to give him the start against the NYJ, so he practices with the No. 1 reps and starts with a clean slate.
Exactly. Stid is being setup to fail. Is Stid the future for the Pats? No idea, but Cam certainly isnt. Getting only game time when he has to throw, so the D is bringing the heat, tells us little.

BB will forget more about football than most of us will ever know, but I just dont understand. Give Stid a legit chance. If he still sucks, move on. Now it is kinda nebulous.
 

RedOctober3829

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And neither did Cam. Except he's been starting and practicing with the first team all year, and he's been in the league for a decade and isn't under contract for next year.
Not sure what your post has anything to do with Stidham. The coaching staff has had 2 years to evaluate Stidham and if he hasn’t been good enough to unseat what we’ve watched Cam do then what is 1 week going to change?
 

RedOctober3829

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In a blowout with two starting lineman out and the Bills coming on every play.

I really want them to give him the start against the NYJ, so he practices with the No. 1 reps and starts with a clean slate.
Is 1 week going to change your opinion that he’s an option to be the starter next year? Sure all the 1st team reps are great and all, but is that going to move the needle?
 

Captaincoop

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Not sure what your post has anything to do with Stidham. The coaching staff has had 2 years to evaluate Stidham and if he hasn’t been good enough to unseat what we’ve watched Cam do then what is 1 week going to change?
Cam has played in 14 games. We know what he is (historically bad).

Stidham has not taken a meaningful snap in his career to date. Not one. We have no idea what he is. He probably sucks. But at least there's some value in seeing what he can do. If there's a 1% chance he can play well enough to be a worthwhile backup QB moving forward, that makes it time better used than by trotting the worst starting QB of the century back out next week.
 

scottyno

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So, on the 4th and 1 late in the first quarter when it was still a game, the defense got caught with only 10 men on the field again. That seems to have happened a lot to the defense this year relatively speaking. I know they're shorthanded missing vets, but defensive coaching seems to be severely lacking this year compared to normal.
 

RedOctober3829

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Cam has played in 14 games. We know what he is (historically bad).

Stidham has not taken a meaningful snap in his career to date. Not one. We have no idea what he is. He probably sucks. But at least there's some value in seeing what he can do. If there's a 1% chance he can play well enough to be a worthwhile backup QB moving forward, that makes it time better used than by trotting the worst starting QB of the century back out next week.
If you want to play Stidham next week, fine. I am not against it. But he’ll still have not played a meaningful snap. I’ve said it here a couple weeks ago that playing Stidham in garbage time(and that is what these 2 weeks are) is not going to matter much when it comes to who is starting Week 1 next year. He significantly regressed in training camp according to all reports(7 INTs in first 4 days) and has fallen out of favor with the coaches. I do not think he will be even in contention for the starting job.
 

scottyno

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Cam has played in 14 games. We know what he is (historically bad).

Stidham has not taken a meaningful snap in his career to date. Not one. We have no idea what he is. He probably sucks. But at least there's some value in seeing what he can do. If there's a 1% chance he can play well enough to be a worthwhile backup QB moving forward, that makes it time better used than by trotting the worst starting QB of the century back out next week.
He played half the game against KC with meaningful snaps for most of it and was worse than what Cam has been for most of this year.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Patriots secondary was dogshit.

Pass rush was pathetic as well.

Offense was...well, as bad as always.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is 1 week going to change your opinion that he’s an option to be the starter next year? Sure all the 1st team reps are great and all, but is that going to move the needle?
Wouldn’t you like to see what Harry can do with a ball that doesn’t require an infielder’s glove to catch? It’s not all about evaluating Stidham. I’d like to see what Harry can do with more volume and actual opportunities. I’d also like to see what the TEs can do. All 3 will be on the team next year and all 3 need as many reps as we can give them.

With Cam, you literally have a guy who can’t throw a football. Stidham clearly isn’t the answer but he can throw a football and give the WRs/TEs more chances to show their stuff. There is inherent value there.
 

DeadlySplitter

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They looked like a bottom 5 team in the league. Which I guess they might be talent-wise, but yeowch.
 

Cellar-Door

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Wouldn’t you like to see what Harry can do with a ball that doesn’t require an infielder’s glove to catch? It’s not all about evaluating Stidham. I’d like to see what Harry can do with more volume and actual opportunities. I’d also like to see what the TEs can do. All 3 will be on the team next year and all 3 need as many reps as we can give them.

With Cam, you literally have a guy who can’t throw a football. Stidham clearly isn’t the answer but he can throw a football and give the WRs/TEs more chances to show their stuff. There is inherent value there.
This would be a much better argument if we didn't just watch Stidham spray almost every non-dumpoff around with Cam-like inaccuracy.
We can start Stidham next week, it won't really make any long-term difference, he's obviously not in the team's plan, and 1 game against the Jets isn't going to change what they think about any other player either. It's deck-chair shuffling.

I think Cam is terrible.... at the same time, if Byrd makes an easy catch and Folk makes an XP we're down 17-14 with 4 minutes left in the half, hoping to make a stop, keep it close, maybe have a couple more good drives on the ground like the TD drive.

We then give up a 50 yard TD on a simple crossing route and would have gone into the half down 10 instead it's 16. We get shredded again after the break. Cam gets 1 series, with no pass attempts, we go to Stidham because we have to throw... he's likewise terrible at throwing, and we get destroyed.

I actually think Bill is correct when he says Cam gives us the best chance to win... it's just a damning indictment of the team.

The only way this team wins games is if we play like the first few drives... run the ball almost exclusively with RBs and Cam, get stops on defense, don't turn it over and try to wear teams out, maybe make a big play on special teams. It's how basically every win has gone. If we fall behind by more than 2 scores the game is over no matter who the QB is.
Stidham is almost certainly the more accurate passer right now, but he's also still not an NFL QB quality passer, he's not winning us any games on the back of his performance.

We run a garbage college option offense because that's the only way we have a chance to win, not a good chance, but a chance. Bill starts Cam because he's better at running the garbage college option offense than Stidham, because between the two of them the only average or better NFL skill is Cam's running.

Edit- If Bill is trying to win games his best strategy is probably to start Cam hope for the best then go to Stidham if we go down 3 scores and pray for a miracle. If he isn't trying to win games... he can go with either.
 

djbayko

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No one said anything about Cam Newton. We all know he wasn’t good. Stidham is not good either.
I’ll say it more strongly than the others. As bad as he was, he was better than Cam and faced a worse situation. It’s not good, but starting Cam gives you nothing at this point.
 
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SMU_Sox

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How many 3 down players do they have on defense right now in the front 7? Maybe Uche if he takes the leap next year? Maybe Phillips? What's worse is even the one dimensional guys they have suck at what they do for the most part. Simon used to be a dependable edge setter who was good in the stunt/twist game and athletic enough to not be a complete 0 when he was out in space or in coverage. Wino can't set the edge consistently. They don't pressure opposing offenses and with QBs being so mobile these days it's hard to win with just coverage sacks. They need middle class and top talent somewhere there. That's just the front 7.

This roster is rotting all over from top to bottom. Wynn getting hurt makes the 2018 haul almost a complete bust while 2019 looks dreadful too with Harry and JJW doing close to nothing, Wino looking like a rotational guy, Cajuste and Froholdt either gone or going soon, and Harris and Bailey the only two starters. Sony showing some signs of life is nice but that's of little consequence. 2020 is off to a good start with Dugger and Onwenu looking good in year 1, Herron as a swing-tackle type, and Uche has flashed.

They don't have enough talented young guys, they don't have enough middle-tier guys, and they don't have enough top tier talent. In a passing league they lack a Quarterback and dynamic receiving weapons. There are worse places to be but not that many.

Oh and even though they've played a hard schedule they are 6-9 and if they win will pick 15th instead of in the top 5 if we are going by overall talent on roster for this year and next.
 

BigSoxFan

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This would be a much better argument if we didn't just watch Stidham spray almost every non-dumpoff around with Cam-like inaccuracy.
We can start Stidham next week, it won't really make any long-term difference, he's obviously not in the team's plan, and 1 game against the Jets isn't going to change what they think about any other player either. It's deck-chair shuffling.

I think Cam is terrible.... at the same time, if Byrd makes an easy catch and Folk makes an XP we're down 17-14 with 4 minutes left in the half, hoping to make a stop, keep it close, maybe have a couple more good drives on the ground like the TD drive.

We then give up a 50 yard TD on a simple crossing route and would have gone into the half down 10 instead it's 16. We get shredded again after the break. Cam gets 1 series, with no pass attempts, we go to Stidham because we have to throw... he's likewise terrible at throwing, and we get destroyed.

I actually think Bill is correct when he says Cam gives us the best chance to win... it's just a damning indictment of the team.

The only way this team wins games is if we play like the first few drives... run the ball almost exclusively with RBs and Cam, get stops on defense, don't turn it over and try to wear teams out, maybe make a big play on special teams. It's how basically every win has gone. If we fall behind by more than 2 scores the game is over no matter who the QB is.
Stidham is almost certainly the more accurate passer right now, but he's also still not an NFL QB quality passer, he's not winning us any games on the back of his performance.

We run a garbage college option offense because that's the only way we have a chance to win, not a good chance, but a chance. Bill starts Cam because he's better at running the garbage college option offense than Stidham, because between the two of them the only average or better NFL skill is Cam's running.

Edit- If Bill is trying to win games his best strategy is probably to start Cam hope for the best then go to Stidham if we go down 3 scores and pray for a miracle. If he isn't trying to win games... he can go with either.
Cam can’t throw a football. Having WRs with him at QB is basically pointless. Nobody thinks Stidham is the answer, even at backup. But, I would like to see the WRs and TEs get a shot with him at QB for a full game with a full week of practice. The long term impact of either of them at this point is next to nil. I get why Belichick stuck with him for this long but enough is enough at this point. Let Stidham start a game and then flush them both down the toilet this offseason.
 

BigSoxFan

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How many 3 down players do they have on defense right now in the front 7? Maybe Uche if he takes the leap next year? Maybe Phillips? What's worse is even the one dimensional guys they have suck at what they do for the most part. Simon used to be a dependable edge setter who was good in the stunt/twist game and athletic enough to not be a complete 0 when he was out in space or in coverage. Wino can't set the edge consistently. They don't pressure opposing offenses and with QBs being so mobile these days it's hard to win with just coverage sacks. They need middle class and top talent somewhere there. That's just the front 7.

This roster is rotting all over from top to bottom. Wynn getting hurt makes the 2018 haul almost a complete bust while 2019 looks dreadful too with Harry and JJW doing close to nothing, Wino looking like a rotational guy, Cajuste and Froholdt either gone or going soon, and Harris and Bailey the only two starters. Sony showing some signs of life is nice but that's of little consequence. 2020 is off to a good start with Dugger and Onwenu looking good in year 1, Herron as a swing-tackle type, and Uche has flashed.

They don't have enough talented young guys, they don't have enough middle-tier guys, and they don't have enough top tier talent. In a passing league they lack a Quarterback and dynamic receiving weapons. There are worse places to be but not that many.

Oh and even though they've played a hard schedule they are 6-9 and if they win will pick 15th instead of in the top 5 if we are going by overall talent on roster for this year and next.
And Hightower is almost 31 and won’t have played a meaningful snap in like 20 months if he returns. Ditto for Chung except he’s even older. There just aren’t many impact players at all.

The DL needs to be completely rebuilt.
 

Cellar-Door

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Cam can’t throw a football. Having WRs with him at QB is basically pointless. Nobody thinks Stidham is the answer, even at backup. But, I would like to see the WRs and TEs get a shot with him at QB for a full game with a full week of practice. The long term impact of either of them at this point is next to nil. I get why Belichick stuck with him for this long but enough is enough at this point. Let Stidham start a game and then flush them both down the toilet this offseason.
I can see that. I just think that Bellichick's objective is to win, not to see what the WRs look like with a normal bad QB, and if you are trying to maximize your chance of winning.... you probably start Cam because he makes your running game better, and that's the only chance you have.

I think it'd be more likely Stidham starts if he had played well tonight, but he didn't.
 

heavyde050

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Just a bad overall and game from the Pats. Hopefully BB is up for a rebuild as the Bills are a lot better than the Pats at this point in time.
 

vegassoxfan

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That was an ass kicking, good luck trying to land free agents now, it lasted longer than I ever dreamed it would, but nothing lasts forever in the material world. # 12 wins this round, he is going to the playoffs for a 13th straight year. For coach and team, a losing season, the 1st of the century...sucks
 

Silverdude2167

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That was an ass kicking, good luck trying to land free agents now, it lasted longer than I ever dreamed it would, but nothing lasts forever in the material world. # 12 wins this round, he is going to the playoffs for a 13th straight year. For coach and team, a losing season, the 1st of the century...sucks
This is a stupid post. Do you know what helps land free agents? Money, the opportunity to play, and the GOAT head coach.

I don't think there will be any issues landing free agents.
 

Gdiguy

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I think the thing that I don't understand is - why is Stidham still on the roster?

If he wants to play Cam and thinks he's better - ok, fine... but if Stidham isn't better than this Cam is, other than 'he's a warm body' I don't really see the value of continuing to carry him? I guess to me the point of a backup (or even 3rd string) QB, especially for a team like NE that at least has ideals of competing for the playoffs next year (if they didn't this year) is to have someone serviceable as a backup in case the starter goes down; if Stidham can't beat out Cam for the starting position this year, he's clearly not capable of achieving that role. So why not get rid of him and bring someone else in to see if they're capable of being the backup next year?
 

DeadlySplitter

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Tom jumping ship to a loaded offensive roster, coaxing his buddy Gronk out of retirement, insisting on AB playing with him... he doesn't get much credit from me. he left because he knew the Pats were heading towards a nadir in the talent cycle and he didn't have the years left in his career to wait it out again.
 

jsinger121

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This is a stupid post. Do you know what helps land free agents? Money, the opportunity to play, and the GOAT head coach.

I don't think there will be any issues landing free agents.
The only way the patriots are getting free agents and good players is if they are paying the most money because it makes zero sense for anyone to come here if they don’t have a legitimate QB in place.
 

Silverdude2167

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The only way the patriots are getting free agents and good players is if they are paying the most money because it makes zero sense for anyone to come here if they don’t have a legitimate QB in place.
Good thing they have a lot of money...also I thought we dispensed with the idea that players came here for less money already.
 

Reggie's Racquet

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This is a stupid post. Do you know what helps land free agents? Money, the opportunity to play, and the GOAT head coach.

I don't think there will be any issues landing free agents.
Of course we are assuming Bill doesn’t just up and retire after the season. Or he may just back away, stay GM and give the day to day coaching responsibility to Josh. This year...this world has changed a lot of people’s priorities.
 

lexrageorge

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Who were the last "big name" free agents that the Pats signed? The got Colvin after they missed the playoffs in 2002 while the Pats were being proclaimed a "one-and-done" Super Bowl team, and they signed Adalius Thomas after their 2006 season ended in Indy. Then Gilmore. But most of their free agent signings have been "second day" guys anyway.
 

j44thor

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Of course we are assuming Bill doesn’t just up and retire after the season. Or he may just back away, stay GM and give the day to day coaching responsibility to Josh. This year...this world has changed a lot of people’s priorities.
This would be the worst outcome, Bill the GM hasn't been great for a while now but this year has shown that he might be near the bottom of the league as GM while he is still a top tier coach. Drafting a K in the 5th when this team had holes up and down the roster was an inexcusable decision that would likely get lesser GMs on the hot seat.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yeah that's a silly take.

COVID really messed everything up. Brady's departure left them with $13 million in dead money and no space for a long time. Cam has obvious been terrible but at this point it's churlish not to give BB a mulligan on a very odd season and see what happens in the offseason.
 

BigSoxFan

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I can see that. I just think that Bellichick's objective is to win, not to see what the WRs look like with a normal bad QB, and if you are trying to maximize your chance of winning.... you probably start Cam because he makes your running game better, and that's the only chance you have.

I think it'd be more likely Stidham starts if he had played well tonight, but he didn't.
I get all that but at this point my interests aren’t aligned with Belichick’s. I want this team to lose to the Jets and move from #14 to something like 11 or 12. And if Stidham at QB helps them get there, all the better. I’m still not convinced that he’s any worse than Cam.

Half this roster will be turned over by next year anyways, including likely both of these QBs.

At this point, I just want to watch a new version of suck. The old version is boring.