The Deep (Bench) State 2023-24: Depth Charges

InstaFace

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So with our rotation fairly fixed, and 33 games gone in the regular season, I'd say we have an opportunity now (and enough tape) to evaluate how the rest of our roster looks. We all know the Celtics' Top 6, with key rotation players Hauser, Pritchard and Kornet, pretty much in that order. Leaving aside that Kornet could theoretically lose his spot to an acquisition or even to Queta, that 9-deep rotation is there to perform, not to develop / exceed expectations. But that leaves the rest of our (sometimes-motley) crew, in position order:

PG Dalano Banton 6'9 (51% #2, 37% #1), 2 yrs Toronto Raptors, 111' on the season
SF Svi Mykhailiuk 6'7 (59% #3, 35% #2), 5 yrs on 6 teams, 99' with us this year
SF Oshae Brissett 6'7 (55% #3, 30% #4), 1yr TOR 3yrs IND, 191'
PF Lamar Stevens 6'6 (61% #4, 19% #3), 3yrs Cleveland, 60'
C Neemias Queta 7'0 (TW) (96% #5, 4% #4), 2 yrs SAC, 174'

And these guys, who are probably not in the big team's plans this year, but we can talk about them too if we want:

SG JD Davison 6'1 (TW) (74% #2, 26% #1), 1 yr Alabama, 3' this year, 66' last year
SF Jordan Walsh 6'7, Rookie, 1 yr Arkansas, 0'
G Drew Peterson 6'9, Rookie 2yrs Rice 3 yrs USC (TW), 3'

None of these guys will determine whether we win the title or not this year, I would set the over/under for playoff minutes for the bunch of them at like 5 (Queta probably has an outside shot). But some of them may develop into reliable NBA players on cheap contracts, and they will all play a role in managing the minutes of our more-veteran rotation squad and seeing games out - often under the leadership of Pritchard and Hauser but sometimes mixed into lineups with 1 or 2 of our 6 starters.

Current season (N.B. the Xs are a DNP):

75994

Career-to-date:

75995

LEBRON thinks they're pretty much all replacement level, especially defensively, but Queta maybe has some potential:

75999
(N.B. the data seems a few games behind, per the minutes totals). RAPTOR largely agrees with LEBRON.


My observations so far:

  • Queta deserves the irrational exuberance imo, DARKO notwithstanding. He does several things at an NBA level, especially rebound but also lobs, post defense and even credible perimeter defense. I could see us throwing him out to bang the really big centers who give Kornet trouble for a little bit to spell Horford. Needs to avoid getting Kendrick Perkins Disease under the basket. Has a bit more than the Time Lord offensive skillset (e.g. jump hooks) but not much.
  • Brissett has seemed like the first one off the deep-bench, and seems like a good shooter for his size and strength: 37.5% (6/16) on 3s, an improved .553 eFG%, though not a good FT shooter (71% career, 10/17 this year). Has a positive On-Off +/- for his career and in 4 of his 5 seasons including this one. Was a part-time starter in Indy for the first 2 of his 3 years there.
  • Mykhailiuk was brought in for 3-and-D, sort of a poor man's Sam Hauser, 36% career 3P% on 7.9 (career) and 9.5 (this year) attempts per 36' (pretty high, tops on the team ahead of Hauser at 9.0 and Tatum at 8.5). But despite that 36% career, he's shooting them miserably so far, making only 19%. Has seemed like a turnstile on defense too, with only brief exceptions (I thought he had a good shift vs Toronto). Not the guy I want out there if he's not making his 3s.
  • Banton seems like the guy we throw out there when we need another guard and Pritchard is too tired - he plays by default only. DARKO says he had a couple good games earlier in the season, and maybe he did, but when I think of his appearances I think of NBA players blowing by him from the perimeter; his huge, Ben Simmons-like size for a guard is more of a liability than an asset imo. 7 assists to 8 turnovers on the year, has no outside shooting.
  • Stevens feels very anonymous to me, and he's played the least of the guys we actually play. He's crashing the offensive glass a lot (3.6 ORB per 36, double his previous rates), and BPM says he's done very well on defense (+2.7) against those scrubs in limited minutes. But every time he's out there, I find myself asking why.

So what do you guys see?
 

HomeRunBaker

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So what do you guys see?
Hopefully nobody which means we are 100% healthy. Aside from that Svi is a non-factor and not an NBA player imo, Queta can give fun spot minutes in reg season but very limited and probably gone if we add a big at the deadline. As for Banton, Stevens and Brissett I have two words....

Matchup Dependent.
 

benhogan

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The TOP9 are set.

Queta is the most important piece on the deep bench since our TOP3 Centers have a propensity to be out. He adds a physical presence down low which this team lacks in the frontcourt.

Brissett brings defensive energy which could be valuable as we enter the dog days of the season.

HRB summed it up well, the Celtic's deep bench was built to be Match-Up Dependent.
 

PedroKsBambino

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For me there's two capabilties worth adding "on the cheap" and then the unlikely but not impossible scenario they upgrade the "bench wing" slot.

1. Add a bench creator. It isn't often going to be needed, but in theory swapping Svi or Banton for someone with a bit of offensive creation juice (think 'discount Jamal Crawford') would have a place, like last year's game 7. Not likely to matter given starters and their offensive abilities, but would be on my shopping list. TJ Warren out there (but looking washed/never recovered from injury); Goran Dragic probably done, but that's the profile. This is something that can come via buyout.

2. A beef 4 (or possibly 5) to support specific matchups---Embiid, Jokic, some minutes vs GA. This is all about replacing Grant's ability to plant low and resist pressure from the strongest guys. Again, not a super high need and would DNP-CD most other games/matchups. Old friend Blake Griffin is perhaps best of the unexciting possibilities; Dewayne Dedmon kinda sorta fits (but seems like a bit of a loser personality). Also possible there's a Drummond-like buyout option here.

3. Theoretical wing upgrade. As discussed in a few threads only possibly avialable guy who would fit the Grant TPE and also be equal to or better than Hauser is Saddiq Bey. Whether or not one sees him as an upgrade there, he's more versatile and would be useful especially if there's an injury to a starter. But other than him, and possibly kicking the tires on Danny Green if he has anything left, I don't see a FA/trade option that upgrades (or usefully supplements) what we already have on the bench

Celtics did a nice job shopping in bargain bin along the way---Brissett, Stevens, Queta, Banton, Svi really are better than what's likely out there. But these are the three profiles I'd be thinking about, and only the third is one I'd trade more than a restricted second to acquire.
 

benhogan

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In theory, Saddiq Bey would be a nice pick-up for a 2nd, but wouldn't ATL use RFA to pay him peanuts?

Another potential issue: would Bey be thrilled with spotty/role-player minutes on the C's before RFA? He'll need numbers to get paid. ALSO never understood why Detroit just gave up on him, potential red flag or is that Detroit business as usual?

Plus Hauser is a much better Corner3 shooter & we keep waiting for Sam to get exposed defensively which hasn't happened. Lastly, not sure CJM would play Saddiq Bey over Sam/PP who have earned their minutes.

I am pretty comfortable seeing more Brissett on the floor with the TOP8 & waiting until the last day of the trade deadline to see what shakes out.
 

PedroKsBambino

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My read is that Dragic was looking around for a good offer and never got one, but that's just my guess. He may really be retired by choice!

On Bey, I am neither sure he's available or worth getting for Celtics, and my guess is he'll take some form of first given Atlanta doesn't have to trade him and others will make offers. But he's the most interesting realistically available wing I've seen mentioned anywhere or could come up with myself; I do think he's a legit proven 25-30 minute a game guy....he's not better in role Celtics want him than Hauser is, but if there's an injury and for certain matchups he's incrementally valuable. I think it's hard to know what Atlanta might do - they seem somewhat likely to trade Murray too, so that will cause various additional changes. If I were them I'd trade Bey for an asset because he's not worth a ton to them given others they have, but who knows really.

Unlike last couple of years I suspect it's a really slow trade deadline for Cs...maybe there's a 'second round pick for a big' kind of deal but if I were guessing there will not even be that
 

the moops

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On Bey, I am neither sure he's available or worth getting for Celtics, and my guess is he'll take some form of first given Atlanta doesn't have to trade him and others will make offers
There were no first round picks involved in Bey going from DET to ATL, and Bey is now on an expiring. If ATL moves him, I doubt they get a first
 

HomeRunBaker

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There were no first round picks involved in Bey going from DET to ATL, and Bey is now on an expiring. If ATL moves him, I doubt they get a first
Saw a stat recently where I believe Bey has the lowest corner 3-pt % among qualified players. Whatever the opposite of a leap is that is what Bey is doing this year. Hard pass for a young player trying to gain his stripes and big contract on this team.
 

the moops

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Saw a stat recently where I believe Bey has the lowest corner 3-pt % among qualified players. Whatever the opposite of a leap is that is what Bey is doing this year. Hard pass for a young player trying to gain his stripes and big contract on this team.
Don't think this is anywhere near accurate. Bey is shooting 31% from the corner, not great, but better than plenty of guys (Wemby, Banchero, AD, Jokic, JJJ, KAT, etc)

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/shooting?DistanceRange=By Zone&PerMode=Totals&Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=0&dir=A&sort=Corner 3 FG PCT
 

Cellar-Door

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Cellar-Door

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Well talk about a random cutoff. We don't narrow it down to qualifying corner attempts
yeah I just threw some random numbers in to test it. But I'd assume that whomever put the stat HRB was looking at qualified it.
Using what I think is the cutoff overall 3pt I think he's 3rd worst of those in corner% (have to eyeball it) behind Quickley and Murray.
 

PedroKsBambino

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There were no first round picks involved in Bey going from DET to ATL, and Bey is now on an expiring. If ATL moves him, I doubt they get a first
could be—and I am not at all sure he’s worth it. But deadline deals are much more about the market than absolute value.
 

the moops

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yeah I just threw some random numbers in to test it. But I'd assume that whomever put the stat HRB was looking at qualified it.
Using what I think is the cutoff overall 3pt I think he's 3rd worst of those in corner% (have to eyeball it) behind Quickley and Murray.
Two incredibly god shooters. Bey is shooting 34% from three this year and is a 36% career shooter. We kinda know what he is, and trying to force some narrative that he is the "worst corner shooter in the league" is weak
 

HomeRunBaker

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Two incredibly god shooters. Bey is shooting 34% from three this year and is a 36% career shooter. We kinda know what he is, and trying to force some narrative that he is the "worst corner shooter in the league" is weak
Not sure what narrative there is....34% from the corner is pretty awful especially when those are almost always going to be catch and shoots and his primary role.
 

Bunt Single

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Kornet has a range of solid basketball skills, but quick hands for receiving passes is not one of them.
edit: sorry, this was intended for the game thread
 
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the moops

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Not sure what narrative there is....34% from the corner is pretty awful especially when those are almost always going to be catch and shoots and his primary role.
He shot 42% from the corner last year in ATL. 43% last year in his time with DET. 39% the year prior. 38% before that.

He is a fine 3 and D wing. Not the greatest defender, but passable. Not the greatest shooter, but not anywhere near the worst.
 

InstaFace

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Adam Taylor of CelticsBlog with some nice words for Brissett's game on Saturday:

#10 Oshae Brissett is earning his minutes through hustle
If you’ve listened to me on any podcasts this season (and if you haven’t, please consider doing so) then you’ve heard me share my opinions on Oshae Brissett.​
I was wrong.​
He’s earning his minutes with hustle, high-energy defense, and a commitment to being a valuable role player off the bench. I would still like his offense to improve, but overall, he’s becoming an important asset for the Celtics. He has good size and length, great intangibles, a solid motor, and a charisma about him that appears to have allowed him to slot into the dynamic of the locker room with ease.​
Brissett can spell some wing minutes off the bench and provide an energy spark that uplifts the team. He’s been great over this recent stretch.​

I did think he had a good game vs Indiana, given that Hauser was seemingly ineffective and the team was on a back to back and needed minutes.

The rest of the deep bench looked like the fringe NBAers that they are when they came in. I think Queta got a hot minute, missed a defensive assignment and was pulled immediately, but feel free to fact check me on that.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Saw a stat recently where I believe Bey has the lowest corner 3-pt % among qualified players. Whatever the opposite of a leap is that is what Bey is doing this year. Hard pass for a young player trying to gain his stripes and big contract on this team.
NBA.com has Bey at 31.3% on 99 attempts from the corners (30% on 70 attempts from left corner; 34.5% on 29 attempts from right corner). BTW, those 99 attempts are the league's most from the corners.

The only guy really near him is Derrick Jones Jr. (32.3% on 93 attempts, which is second most in the league). Taurean Prince is at 34.5% on 84 attempts. Dosunmu is 31.7% on 60 attempts.

There are a bunch of people who shoot worse % than Bey but on much fewer attempts. Boucher is at 29.4% on 34 attempts. Keegan Murray is at 28.3% on 53 attempts (Murray is shooting 17.4% on 23 attempts from the right corner; wonder if there's a flaw in his mechanics). Quickley is shooting 27.5% on 51 attempts. Terrance Mann, Aldama, and Nieng are all shooting 25.5% on 50-ish attempts (51, 51, and 55 respectively).

What's weird is that Bey was at 42.4% last year on 151 attempts (48.7% on 39 attempts from right corner; 40.2% on 112 attempts from the left corner) (Murray was also at 42.3% on 149 attempts including 38.3% on 60 attempts from the right corner); was at 39.1% on 161 attempts the year before; and was at 38.4% on 112 attempts the year before that.

Bey's shooting 6-16 (37.5%) from corner 3P over his last 5 games. Not sure what is causing his cold streak other than perhaps shooting variance but Bey has a pretty good track record of being a pretty good corner 3P shooter.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Another for the list of bigs, though I doubt they'd want him or they'd have signed him earlier..
This is very intriguing depending how he's fared against Embiid, Jokic, AD and I have no recall of these matchups. Significant upgrade over Queta who may actually be a playoff specific matchup guy as well as KP/AH/LK injury insurance.
 

JakeRae

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This is very intriguing depending how he's fared against Embiid, Jokic, AD and I have no recall of these matchups. Significant upgrade over Queta who may actually be a playoff specific matchup guy as well as KP/AH/LK injury insurance.
Agreed. He would be a real upgrade on Queta if he’s willing to be a largely DNP guy on a contender. I’d guess he’d prefer to go somewhere with a better opportunity for minutes.
 

benhogan

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This is very intriguing depending how he's fared against Embiid, Jokic, AD and I have no recall of these matchups. Significant upgrade over Queta who may actually be a playoff specific matchup guy as well as KP/AH/LK injury insurance.
I believe Brad will end up using #15 on Queta & then use the available two-way on a break-in-case of emergency G-League BIG (Huff?)

But wouldn't mind Biz if he's cool playing behind Kornet
 

PedroKsBambino

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Biyimbo got his full $5 mil from Memphis didn’t he? I’m not sure Celts see the need some of us do a for a wide body big. But if they do, I can imagine him feeling like a few months on a contender is worth it as he’ll be a FA again in June and even if it’s spot minutes being on a winner might help for the next gig….don’t know his motivators but not insane.
 

InstaFace

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Some good run for the deep bench last night, against their peers.

If it weren't for the fact that Banton is the primary ball handler when Pritchard finally gets to clock out, I really couldn't tell Banton and Stevens apart. Same hair, same inability to hit outside shots, same inability to stay in front of NBA players on defense or be late in their screen decisions.

Queta and Brissett still look like the only maybe-NBA-players among them. Walsh had some nice rebounding a few games ago, and of course the dunk on a transition D breakdown by Memphis's backups-to-the-backups, but I still haven't seen anything that makes me sit up and say "hmm, might have something here". Queta is the only one who gives us that, which is why he's got his own thread. Svi was way too slow on the draw on taking those corner 3s, he at least made one nice entry pass for a Queta dunk, but if he's supposed to be Hauser Lite out there, he looks calorie-free to me.
 

lovegtm

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Some good run for the deep bench last night, against their peers.

If it weren't for the fact that Banton is the primary ball handler when Pritchard finally gets to clock out, I really couldn't tell Banton and Stevens apart. Same hair, same inability to hit outside shots, same inability to stay in front of NBA players on defense or be late in their screen decisions.

Queta and Brissett still look like the only maybe-NBA-players among them. Walsh had some nice rebounding a few games ago, and of course the dunk on a transition D breakdown by Memphis's backups-to-the-backups, but I still haven't seen anything that makes me sit up and say "hmm, might have something here". Queta is the only one who gives us that, which is why he's got his own thread. Svi was way too slow on the draw on taking those corner 3s, he at least made one nice entry pass for a Queta dunk, but if he's supposed to be Hauser Lite out there, he looks calorie-free to me.
Yup, it's just Brissett and Queta. No one else can or would ever see the floor in a meaningful game. Hopefully they can swap out some of the deeper guys for something better at the deadline, just as a backup.
 

lexrageorge

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Some good run for the deep bench last night, against their peers.

If it weren't for the fact that Banton is the primary ball handler when Pritchard finally gets to clock out, I really couldn't tell Banton and Stevens apart. Same hair, same inability to hit outside shots, same inability to stay in front of NBA players on defense or be late in their screen decisions.

Queta and Brissett still look like the only maybe-NBA-players among them. Walsh had some nice rebounding a few games ago, and of course the dunk on a transition D breakdown by Memphis's backups-to-the-backups, but I still haven't seen anything that makes me sit up and say "hmm, might have something here". Queta is the only one who gives us that, which is why he's got his own thread. Svi was way too slow on the draw on taking those corner 3s, he at least made one nice entry pass for a Queta dunk, but if he's supposed to be Hauser Lite out there, he looks calorie-free to me.
Walsh is a long term project; he's only 19 and very RAW. However, his skills are tantalizing enough, and he costs next to nothing to keep him shuttling between Portland and the deep bench for the next 2 seasons. So he'll be on the roster for the next couple of years barring a tantalizing trade possibility.

For this season anyway, agree Brissett and Queta are likely the only ones that will see any meaningful minutes during the 82.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Regarding the title of this thread. I’ve felt from Day One that whoever didn’t elevate themselves into our Top 9-10 or the rotation would be packaged as part of a deal to bring back a proven veteran who could. I’ve also felt that Walsh would be included in this group as this deadline is about 2024 and not 2028. So what can a package of these guys bring?

Stevens
Mykhailiuk
Walsh
Queta
Banton
Future draft picks

I’ll assume that Davison and Petersen carry zero value not that those above carry much but salary fodder. So like Walsh, Draft Pick and salary fodder above….what does that get us? Olynyk has been my target since the summer….do these numbers work? We need another Danny Favor Deal!
 

TripleOT

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Walsh is a long term project; he's only 19 and very RAW. However, his skills are tantalizing enough, and he costs next to nothing to keep him shuttling between Portland and the deep bench for the next 2 seasons. So he'll be on the roster for the next couple of years barring a tantalizing trade possibility.

For this season anyway, agree Brissett and Queta are likely the only ones that will see any meaningful minutes during the 82.
Walsh is such a live body. His first step against closeouts covers a lot of ground quickly. If the few minutes he has played, he looks to make the right play every time, which is not conducive to garbage time highlights, but probably is liked by the coaches.

He looks to be an athletic, long three and D who will get his when the opportunity arises, which is exactly what the Jays need in a backup wing. Hopefully he will be ready for minutes next season, but even if it takes two years of seasoning before he cracks the rotation, even one year of his cap friendly deal as a contributor would be good.
 

InstaFace

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Regarding the title of this thread. I’ve felt from Day One that whoever didn’t elevate themselves into our Top 9-10 or the rotation would be packaged as part of a deal to bring back a proven veteran who could. I’ve also felt that Walsh would be included in this group as this deadline is about 2024 and not 2028. So what can a package of these guys bring?

Stevens
Mykhailiuk
Walsh
Queta
Banton
Future draft picks

I’ll assume that Davison and Petersen carry zero value not that those above carry much but salary fodder. So like Walsh, Draft Pick and salary fodder above….what does that get us? Olynyk has been my target since the summer….do these numbers work? We need another Danny Favor Deal!
They're all on minimums, Queta of course on a two-way. Given that we have great team chemistry and the $6.2M TPE from Grant, I'm not sure why we'd use any of them as salary ballast, and none besides Queta (and maybe Walsh, if he was hotly scouted by anyone besides us) probably have any net asset value. So unless one of them needs to go in order to add a bit of outgoing salary (e.g. to get to Caruso's $9.5M), in which case all of Svi, Stevens (guaranteed) and Banyon make the vet-min $2.0 and could go, I have a hard time seeing them being part of a package that any acquirer would look for.

And I doubt we'd ship out Queta without getting a big back, as we've really needed a 4th playable big over the course of the year as we manage minutes and injuries for KP/Al, with Kornet also having some availability issues.

So yeah, imo any package for a theoretical Caruso or someone like him would be heavily weighted toward the picks we'd include rather than the prospect talent we'd be sending their way.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Given that we have great team chemistry and the $6.2M TPE from Grant, I'm not sure why we'd use any of them as salary ballast, and none besides Queta (and maybe Walsh, if he was hotly scouted by anyone besides us) probably have any net asset value. So unless one of them needs to go in order to add a bit of outgoing salary (e.g. to get to Caruso's $9.5M), in which case all of Svi, Stevens (guaranteed) and Banyon make the vet-min $2.0 and could go, I have a hard time seeing them being part of a package that any acquirer would look for.
If you're suggesting that BOS can add salary to the $6.2M trade exception, they can't.

If you're not suggesting that, I don't understand what you mean by "salary ballast".
 

PedroKsBambino

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I've thought of the possible gaps to fill as:

1. An upgrade on the top 9 (e.g. upgrade Kornet, PP, or Brisset). Unlikely, but will shop around. I don't believe Caruso is gettable for Celts assets, and also doubt they'd trade PP+ pick to get him. But sure, he'd be huge if they could actually get there.
2. A wing who has more two-way capability than Stevens/Svi. Definitely possible---this is the Jae'Sean Tate/Konchar category (I know Konchar might replace Brissett in some matchups) Also could end up being Tony Snell for different depth. Lonnie Walker has been mentioned here (more a guard than a true wing, but same need/gap really)
3. A bench player with some scoring/offensive juice. Not everyone feels needed - picture a poor man's Jamal Crawford here, who'd you pull out in a scenario like Miami game 7 last year. Derrick Rose is the profile, and likely the talent level you'd get.
4. A widebody big who can defend Jokic/Giannis for 10 minutes a game. Not everyone agrees here. Far from a 'must' and more likely a FA than anything else. Nick Richards isn't a perfect fit but would be within Grant TPE.
5. A vet ballhandler with a bit of size. Not all agree; idea is to have a backup who can defend a bit if there's an injury to White/Jrue for multiple games. Delon Wright is someone they've been rumored to have interest in - he's this profile, really. But to get to that $8 mil salary they have to aggregage a bunch of end-of-bench guys (not a problem, really, but note it as it' would create some gaps to fill with other flotsam or Maine guys)

I think they have three cap pathways to do any of those: 1) vet min signing/buyout signing (but limited there given second apron) 2) the Grant TPE 3) aggregating minimum guys

If I were guessing, they'll fill item 2 above at deadline, though it won't surprise me if they do little at deadline, given chemistry, lack of 'urgent' big holes, and likelihood others will pay more for the interesting pieces. I just don't see the cap/asset pathway to an Olynyk or Caruso - in part because I think they want to keep PP pretty much, and in part because others have a lot more assets.

I can imagine also them using a good 2nd or a future 1st for a cost-controlled guy they might have for a couple years -- so, someone's rookie-scale contract. Xavier Tillman is an example (nope--only one year left). Patrick Williams another here (though will take some work to get to his salary number). The theory would be they help a bit with depth now and, if it's someone they like, they might resign them in a couple years when Horford or someone ages out. Would be curious what HRB or others think about guys who are deeper in rotations on non-contending teams who might be better than they've gotten a chance to show to date and fit this model.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Regarding the title of this thread. I’ve felt from Day One that whoever didn’t elevate themselves into our Top 9-10 or the rotation would be packaged as part of a deal to bring back a proven veteran who could. I’ve also felt that Walsh would be included in this group as this deadline is about 2024 and not 2028. So what can a package of these guys bring?

Stevens
Mykhailiuk
Walsh
Queta
Banton
Future draft picks

I’ll assume that Davison and Petersen carry zero value not that those above carry much but salary fodder. So like Walsh, Draft Pick and salary fodder above….what does that get us? Olynyk has been my target since the summer….do these numbers work? We need another Danny Favor Deal!
According to ESPN's trade machine, sending out those 5 is not sufficient salary for KO. Sorry.
 

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They're all on minimums, Queta of course on a two-way. Given that we have great team chemistry and the $6.2M TPE from Grant, I'm not sure why we'd use any of them as salary ballast, and none besides Queta (and maybe Walsh, if he was hotly scouted by anyone besides us) probably have any net asset value. So unless one of them needs to go in order to add a bit of outgoing salary (e.g. to get to Caruso's $9.5M), in which case all of Svi, Stevens (guaranteed) and Banyon make the vet-min $2.0 and could go, I have a hard time seeing them being part of a package that any acquirer would look for.

And I doubt we'd ship out Queta without getting a big back, as we've really needed a 4th playable big over the course of the year as we manage minutes and injuries for KP/Al, with Kornet also having some availability issues.

So yeah, imo any package for a theoretical Caruso or someone like him would be heavily weighted toward the picks we'd include rather than the prospect talent we'd be sending their way.
Caruso doesn’t seem getable but the package w Walsh, picks and whatever salaries are necessary from my above list is precisely what I’m expecting. Chemistry isn’t going to step in to play 2nd unit minutes in the playoffs.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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According to ESPN's trade machine, sending out those 5 is not sufficient salary for KO. Sorry.
How the world turns. On draft night I was screaming for Gobert only to be stuck with a low ceiling Olynyk on a rebuilding team….and now he’s the guy I want to be the ideal fit on this one.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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How the world turns. On draft night I was screaming for Gobert only to be stuck with a low ceiling Olynyk on a rebuilding team….and now he’s the guy I want to be the ideal fit on this one.
Yeah funny how the NBA world works. BOS would have been fun to watch if they had gotten Gobert and still ended up with IT4 - just to see them stand next to each other.

On the trade front, doing a little playing around - the Cs could trade for KO by including PP and taking out Queta, but that would leave 4 bigs and no real backup guard. The Cs could not do the trade by including PP and taking out Banton. The only way to keep Banton is to include Luke in the trades: PP, Luke, Stevens, Svi, and Walsh.

I don't think that's going to happen.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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Walsh, Banton, Stevens, Svi combine for $7.6M. Unclear how Queta's salary would be counted during an outgoing trade as he is a 2-way. Either way, not close to Olynyk's $12.2M. There's also the minimum roster size of 12 to consider.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
20,871
Santa Monica
How about JDD/Svi to Memphis for Tillman

they need healthy NBA bodies + JDD gives them some future upside

while X gives the Celtics an experienced bench BIG the rest of this season
 

PedroKsBambino

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Apr 17, 2003
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I like Tillman (thought he had more years left, but I'm wrong there). Probably need a pick in there; I like him and would do it, can imagine folks may not see the same need for a certain profile of Big that I do.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
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Nov 2, 2007
20,871
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I like Tillman (thought he had more years left, but I'm wrong there). Probably need a pick in there; I like him and would do it, can imagine folks may not see the same need for a certain profile of Big that I do.
Yea, toss in a 2nd

X is a little different than Luke, a more mobile defender, who could give guys like Giannis 5-6 physical minutes/gm over a long series. Thought he was OK versus the Lakers in the playoffs last year. Brings a little nastiness to the team.
 

the moops

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Jan 19, 2016
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How the world turns. On draft night I was screaming for Gobert only to be stuck with a low ceiling Olynyk on a rebuilding team….and now he’s the guy I want to be the ideal fit on this one.
Yea only way Olynyk happens is if you include Horford, or Danny decides to buy Olynyk out
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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Sep 27, 2016
22,848
Pittsburgh, PA
If you're suggesting that BOS can add salary to the $6.2M trade exception, they can't.

If you're not suggesting that, I don't understand what you mean by "salary ballast".
The former. I thought we could still aggregate salaries (until next year), and that the TPE counts as an aggregate-able asset the way a normal contract does.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Yea only way Olynyk happens is if you include Horford, or Danny decides to buy Olynyk out
So, on the buyout possibility, players paid above MLE cannot be signed by a team over second apron. Olynyk is paid exactly the MLE....do we have a good citation on whether the rule is actually "at or above" MLE or just "above"?

TPE is not aggregateable (and has not been). What changes is aggregatability of regular salaries/contracts...right now, we can aggregate regular salaries---which we won't be able to next year (assuming we're a second apron team)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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So, on the buyout possibility, players paid above MLE cannot be signed by a team over second apron. Olynyk is paid exactly the MLE....do we have a good citation on whether the rule is actually "at or above" MLE or just "above"?

TPE is not aggregateable (and has not been). What changes is aggregatability of regular salaries/contracts...right now, we can aggregate regular salaries---which we won't be able to next year (assuming we're a second apron team)
I believe non-Taxpayer MLE is $12.4M, so Cs could sign him if bought out.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/values-of-2023-24-mid-level-bi-annual-exceptions.html

The former. I thought we could still aggregate salaries (until next year), and that the TPE counts as an aggregate-able asset the way a normal contract does.
No worries. Cap is super complicated and I get confused a bunch too.

Yes, Cs can aggregate salaries this year.

No, trade exceptions cannot be combined with other players to increase the salary slot.