The Brooklyn Renaissance

[Kremlin Watcher]

I predicted this a while back, saying something like "this is what you get when a dilettante Russian billionaire with no management skills buys your team and hires an investment banker as team president."
 
Well, this is what happens. Won't get better until Prokhorov and Charlier wise up and hire some good basketball people. No draft picks until 2019? Sheesh. I'm a former investment banker, know very little about hoops, but even I can see that that's not a good move.

 

[Tony C]

Bklyn getting destroyed now by the Knicks. Just one quarter, so maybe the Nets will come back, but right now they look dead while the Knicks both tonight and recently have been playing hard for Woodson.

 

[OCST]

somebody getting they azz beat.

 

[ifmanis5]

We're nearing Bobby Valentine levels now.

 

[Tony C]

29 point lead now. Weird for me to root for the Knicks, but at least I respect Woodson and some of their players even if I can't stand the franchise -- nice to see them beat down the punk Jason Kidd, it really looks like the Nets are quitting on him.

 

[Brickowski]

29 point lead now. Weird for me to root for the Knicks, but at least I respect Woodson and some of their players even if I can't stand the franchise -- nice to see them beat down the punk Jason Kidd, it really looks like the Nets are quitting on him.

Well, KG's heart certainly isn't in the game.  He's been completely outplayed by Bargnani.

 

[Tony C]

Kind of rich that Bargnani got tossed for trashtalking Garnett -- one of the biggest trash talkers in the league.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Well, KG's heart certainly isn't in the game.  He's been completely outplayed by Bargnani.

KG's body is basically out of the league.

 

[Brickowski]

KG's body is basically out of the league.

Maybe so.  I've never seen KG suck so badly on defense and on the boards.

 

[Blacken]

Kind of rich that Bargnani got tossed for trashtalking Garnett -- one of the biggest trash talkers in the league.

Barkley's indignance made that amazing.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Kidd can't last any longer. If Nets ownership was sane (not the case), he'd be gone tomorrow, and Frank would be handed the reign and a bit of a pay raise to make up for the shit he's been put through. Really sucks the Hawks have first rights to that pick, because it's probably going to be in the lottery.

 

[cardiacs]

My feelings are torn
Pierce and KG on one side - they don't deserve to be in this shitty situation
Kidd - I fucking hate that guy still from the early 2000's net's teams. Remember the stupid kissy face he made before each free throw? 
 
But Pierce and KG don't seem to care anymore, I guess I can be happy in Kidd's miserable failure. 
 
Still hope this all leads to Pierce signing back with at the vet min next year. 

 

[Devizier]

I think Pierce signs with the Celtics next season.
 
And then prompty retires thereafter. 
 
There's no way he's picking up a basketball again in a professional context after this year is done.

 

[worm0082]

I had doubts about Kidd making it through the season, now I don't think he will make it to New Years.  He has no clue what he is doing and the team clearly doesn't respect him.  They need to get rid of him and stick Frank in there.  Garnett should retire now,  bring back Paul next year for one year.   Similar to Scottie Pippen going back to the Bulls. 

 

[Jer]

They need to get rid of him and stick Frank in there.

 
I think the bridge with Frank has been burned. Forget about Kidd, it's hard to imagine Frank repairing his own relationship with the players.
 
They'd probably need to plug Joe Prunty in. No clue if he has Head Coach chops, but he has been an assistant for a while and has been around a couple of championship teams. 
 
Lets assume their current level of play continues until they get healthy and/or improve teamwork... leaving them 11-30 at the halfway mark. Playing .500 ball the rest of the season leaves them with a 32-50 record, which could still be enough to win the Atlantic. Crazy.

 

[TheoShmeo]

 
I think the bridge with Frank has been burned. Forget about Kidd, it's hard to imagine Frank repairing his own relationship with the players.
 
They'd probably need to plug Joe Prunty in. No clue if he has Head Coach chops, but he has been an assistant for a while and has been around a couple of championship teams. 
 
Lets assume their current level of play continues until they get healthy and/or improve teamwork... leaving them 11-30 at the halfway mark. Playing .500 ball the rest of the season leaves them with a 32-50 record, which could still be enough to win the Atlantic. Crazy.

That first linked story says that the players side with Kidd over Frank but it quotes no one to back that up and the few quotes in the article from players suggest to me that the story may be more complex.  As of now, Kidd is the head coach, and it's good business not to overtly favor an assistant in a clash between them.  If Kidd disappeared, things could change quickly.
 
I'm shocked that Kidd is still standing.  Hiring him in the first place was risky business given his total lack of experience.  The experiment clearly isn't working and it's obvious that Kidd is way over his skis.  I hope for Pierce and KG's sake that the mistake is remedied quickly, as I'd like to see those guys have a chance to compete.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Kidd can't last any longer. If Nets ownership was sane (not the case), he'd be gone tomorrow, and Frank would be handed the reign and a bit of a pay raise to make up for the shit he's been put through. Really sucks the Hawks have first rights to that pick, because it's probably going to be in the lottery.

 
There must be something in the water in New York that makes it impossible to own an NBA franchise without immediately trading first round picks for big-name, washed-up players. Under Prokorhov/Billy King, the Nets have already given up a top 6 pick (that was used to draft Damian Lillard) for Gerald Wallace, and this year they'll lose what could very well end up a lottery pick for Joe Johnson. That means that it's possible that they'll be giving away two lottery picks before they give a single pick to Boston. The Knicks have gotten the headlines in New York, but it's entirely possible that the Nets are the more poorly run franchise. At least the Knicks were smart enough to align their terrible contracts so they all come off the books simultaneously.
 
And while everybody is clamoring to wait until the Nets are healthy, the biggest issue by far has been Kevin Garnett, who's been flat out bad. In order to play at a high level, this Nets team needed Garnett to transform their defense and make up for the shortcomings of Williams, Johnson, Blatche, Teltovic, Lopez, etc. But Garnett's played in 17 of their 19 games, and their defense has been worst in the league. They're currently allowing 108.6 points per 100 possessions. A healthy Williams/Pierce might help them move out of the bottom 10 in points per 100 possession on offense, but if this is what Kevin Garnett is now, this team's going nowhere.

 

[nighthob]

Actually I think the coach is the biggest issue, and that this is a real thorny problem for the Nets as the reason they let Kidd have the job in the first place is that Deron Williams wanted him. Kidd has been playing Garnett as the PF, and Garnett just doesn't have that in him anymore. He's strictly a C these days. Beyond that Kidd has no control over Joe Johnson and is rapidly losing control of the rest of the clubhouse.
 
But if they bring in a better coach then they run the risk of Williams going south on them, and their entire plan for the season was for Williams to carry the team into contention. So it's a tough spot to be in.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

Actually I think the coach is the biggest issue, and that this is a real thorny problem for the Nets as the reason they let Kidd have the job in the first place is that Deron Williams wanted him. Kidd has been playing Garnett as the PF, and Garnett just doesn't have that in him anymore. He's strictly a C these days. Beyond that Kidd has no control over Joe Johnson and is rapidly losing control of the rest of the clubhouse.
 
But if they bring in a better coach then they run the risk of Williams going south on them, and their entire plan for the season was for Williams to carry the team into contention. So it's a tough spot to be in.

 
What choice does he have? Lopez has been their best player and is strictly a Center.

 

[Kliq]

Deron Williams is a coach killer, whoever they bring in to replace Kidd is probably not going to fare that much better. I thought KG should have retired after last season, he is not a starting NBA player anymore.

 

[Tony C]

And in the games I've seen Lopez is the one player going hard and performing at a high level (Plumlee looks like a decent late pick, too).
 

That first linked story says that the players side with Kidd over Frank but it quotes no one to back that up and the few quotes in the article from players suggest to me that the story may be more complex.  As of now, Kidd is the head coach, and it's good business not to overtly favor an assistant in a clash between them.  If Kidd disappeared, things could change quickly.
 
I'm shocked that Kidd is still standing.  Hiring him in the first place was risky business given his total lack of experience.  The experiment clearly isn't working and it's obvious that Kidd is way over his skis.  I hope for Pierce and KG's sake that the mistake is remedied quickly, as I'd like to see those guys have a chance to compete.

 
It's reading tea leaves, so who really knows, but that's my sense, too. Stephen A. Smith had a ton of "inside" info killing Frank for insubordination and saying the players supported Kidd, but it sounded very much like leaks with a purpose. Whatever the truth is, tne thing for sure is that in the 2 games since the shake-up they've played like zombies -- so definitely not a vote of confidence with their on-court actions

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Isn't it very hard to imagine experienced pros like Garnett, Pierce, and Kirilenko actually siding with Kidd over Frank?  I don't mean what they say publically, I mean what they actually feel.  These guys know the approach and the system are garbage...there's almost no way they do not.
 
Also, it's even harder to imagine that they hired Frank was hired without Garnett and Pierce endorsing him---these things happened officially on the same date, and there were plenty of discussion ahead of time about the trade.

 

[wutang112878]

 
What choice does he have? Lopez has been their best player and is strictly a Center.

 
I dont know if he could get KG to do it, and this is a serious suggestion: bring KG off the bench.  Last year with us he was a -3.3 offensively and +9.4 defensively.  This year he is a -12 offensively and a +3 defensively but the defense on/off is a somewhat useless stat considering how bad they are defensively.  But the important thing is that he really isnt making them better on defense in this role and at this age.  And this is while he is playing just 22 minutes a game.  Putting KGs ego aside, he could sub in for Lopez and they both could keep the same number of minutes and just overlap slightly. 

 

[wutang112878]

 
 
Also, it's even harder to imagine that they hired Frank was hired without Garnett and Pierce endorsing him---these things happened officially on the same date, and there were plenty of discussion ahead of time about the trade.

 
I dont think so because Kidd was pushing for Frank before he was hired:
 

 
As Kidd worked to convince Nets management to hire him directly out of his playing career with no coaching experience, part of his pitch had been his desire to hire Frank and give him significant responsibility.
 

 
Then as for why it may have taken so long to actually get Frank signed, as the article mentions Frank is getting $1M a season for 6 years which is allegedly the best assistant contract in the NBA

 

[Tony C]

semi amusing fake note:
 
http://lawrencefrank.blogspot.com/2013/12/daily-report-1262013_6.html

 

[PedroKsBambino]

 
I dont think so because Kidd was pushing for Frank before he was hired:
 
 
Then as for why it may have taken so long to actually get Frank signed, as the article mentions Frank is getting $1M a season for 6 years which is allegedly the best assistant contract in the NBA

 
Kidd knew Frank from his playing career, sure.  I still think it is pretty inconceivable that they made the KG/Pierce trade without knowing what they thought about Frank, and that what they thought wasn't positive.
 
Put another way, does it seem likely to you that they were negotiating this huge trade and also wondering 'gee, wonder if they'll both be pissed we are thinking about hiring lawrence frank as the active lead assistant?'    I don't think that's at all likely...I think they knew the answer.  It's not like Frank is unknown to PP and KG.

 

[wutang112878]

I am pretty confident that the Nets entire organization and front office is not only dysfunctional but also incompetent.  So while everything you said in a normal organization is completely logical, this just doesnt apply for the Nets.
 
Just to add.  While everything looked splendid at the time of the trade, this was an organization with the highest payroll in the game by far who was in the process of trading every single pick they had for the foreseeable future.  Nets Front Office : NBA Franchise :: Bernie Madoff : Hedge Funds

 

[nighthob]

 
What choice does he have? Lopez has been their best player and is strictly a Center.

 
I fully agree that the front office has to take this out of his hands and move Lopez. Playing the PF spot is killing Garnett on both ends of the floor and Lopez as a C with pretty post moves is the most marketable commodity in basketball. (Put another way, for his career he's shown no ability to impact the w/l column but fans love him for the offensive highlights, so even tanking teams would have an interest.)

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Im stunned they are favorites. No spacing on offense. No semblance of defense. bargnani drove the fork squarely into KGs back last night on national TV (rip kg). Awful, clueless coach. No cap room to make moves. Old, non adaptive roster. Nets are screwed for a long time. Zero assets.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Shaun livingston has been a top 3 player for them. Ainge does it again.

 

[Brickowski]

Im stunned they are favorites. No spacing on offense. No semblance of defense. bargnani drove the fork squarely into KGs back last night on national TV (rip kg). Awful, clueless coach. No cap room to make moves. Old, non adaptive roster. Nets are screwed for a long time. Zero assets.

It's a function of the NBA star system.  Having said that, the Nets will improve when they get DWill back.  I'm reading that he's supposed to play next Tuesday.

 

[Blacken]

Unless Deron has learned how to play inside and (not or) also has a time machine dialed in to 2008, it isn't going to matter. They are a lose-by-the-second-round "competitive" team.

When all roads lead through Miami, you had better come prepared (as Indiana has), otherwise it just isn't going to matter.

 

[nighthob]

 Zero assets.

 
Actually Brook Lopez is a very nice asset. Fortunately Billy the King seems terrified to deal him.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Im stunned they are favorites. No spacing on offense. No semblance of defense. bargnani drove the fork squarely into KGs back last night on national TV (rip kg). Awful, clueless coach. No cap room to make moves. Old, non adaptive roster. Nets are screwed for a long time. Zero assets.

People assumed that Pierce, KG, Frank meant they would be able to run the Boston defense. Problem is KG has to slide to PF, Pierce is aging, and Joe Johnson and Deron Williams are terrible defenders. Also Boston was most successful defensively in recent years with Garnett at the 5 where he is still decently mobile for the position, but the Nets have him as a slow 4 with Lopez who is a decent C, but isn't mobile at all and can't come out the play the pick and roll like KG did.
 
I will say Kirilenko would do wonders for this team if he comes back on both ends of the floor.

 

[southshoresoxfan]

The problem w brook is he isnt good enough to run an nba offense through, and hes not versatile enough to be a complimentary player. Hes the jeff green of big men

 

[southshoresoxfan]

2006 kirlenko would help. Well see about the 2013 version

 

[nighthob]

The problem w brook is he isnt good enough to run an nba offense through, and hes not versatile enough to be a complimentary player. Hes the jeff green of big men

 
It doesn't really matter. For a team interested in tanking guys like Lopez are the creme de la creme of assets. Fans love them because of all the pretty moves and they have zero impact on the w/l record.

 

[ishmael]

As of today, Bodog/Bovada is no longer posting futures odds for NBA divisions:
http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp
 
You know it's a crazy season, when even the bookies are throwing their hands up in confusion.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
It doesn't really matter. For a team interested in tanking guys like Lopez are the creme de la creme of assets. Fans love them because of all the pretty moves and they have zero impact on the w/l record.

I disagree with this. Used Correctly Lopez is an amazing asset. He is one of the best at the rim defenders in the league, he is probably not as good a rebounder as he should be (he gets about 50% of  rebound chances so far this year, on par with Varajeo.) However the only good news there is that he is toward the top of the league in contested REB%.
He's an excellent catch and shoot player, His points per touch and ppt in the frontcourt numbers are ridiculous. His biggest weakness is perimeter defense and that he doesn't create shots with his passing. Stil he's one of the best centers in the league, and probably the only player you shouldn't blame for the Nets being terrible.

 

[nighthob]

I disagree with this. Used Correctly Lopez is an amazing asset. He is one of the best at the rim defenders in the league, he is probably not as good a rebounder as he should be (he gets about 50% of  rebound chances so far this year, on par with Varajeo.) However the only good news there is that he is toward the top of the league in contested REB%.
He's an excellent catch and shoot player, His points per touch and ppt in the frontcourt numbers are ridiculous. His biggest weakness is perimeter defense and that he doesn't create shots with his passing. Stil he's one of the best centers in the league, and probably the only player you shouldn't blame for the Nets being terrible.

 
Brook Lopez isn't much of a rim defender. His twin brother is, though. For his career he's never had much of an impact on the Nets' w/l record, and that is more likely to continue than not, and it's in part a function of the game's evolution. The big men that have a huge impact are the defensive monsters that control the paint, because they tamp down the ability of perimeter players to get to the rim. The old fashioned big men that have lots of post moves have seen their impact decline because the set up on the low block and make a bunch of moves to score plays are much slower to develop.
 
But the point is that someone claimed the Nets had zero assets to trade, and I disagreed, Lopez is a huge asset to deal because he's the sort of player that every team that's decided to start over is looking for.

 

[dhellers]

As of today, Bodog/Bovada is no longer posting futures odds for NBA divisions:
http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/basketball-futures.jsp
 
You know it's a crazy season, when even the bookies are throwing their hands up in confusion.

Um, bookies are intermediaries; a good one will never lose money.  So what this tells me is that they are having a hard time tracking/predicting public opinion!

 

[jon abbey]

The 'Fake Lawrence Frank' blog is pretty amusing:
 
http://lawrencefrank.blogspot.com

 

[bowiac]

Um, bookies are intermediaries; a good one will never lose money.  So what this tells me is that they are having a hard time tracking/predicting public opinion!

FWIW, this isn't really true. It's quite common for sportsbooks to "take a position" and not fully hedge their action. This is especially true on futures bets.

 

[dhellers]

FWIW, this isn't really true. It's quite common for sportsbooks to "take a position" and not fully hedge their action. This is especially true on futures bets.

But wouldn't that be based on seeing what the equilibrium odds are, and then ascertaining if there is serious bias (i..e; loyal fans betting big) and trying to take advantage of it?  That is, taking a position is most likely when the equilibrium odds are noticeably out of whack with a fairly dependable predictor?

 

[bowiac]

That sounds right, yes. 

 

[The Social Chair]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/10112168/jason-kidd-brooklyn-nets-used-13-letter-word-assistant-rant

 

Brooklyn Nets coach Jason Kidd allegedly used "a 13-letter word" in an expletive-filled rant against assistant Lawrence Frank following the team's loss in Orlando on Nov. 3.
 
"Sit the (expletive) down! I'm the coach of this (13-letter word) team! When you're on the bench, don't (expletive) move," Kidd said, according to NBA.com, which did not offer further details of what the 13-letter word was.
 
The argument ultimately led to Frank getting "reassigned" to a reduced role where he would produce "daily reports."
 

 

[Jer]

These reporters are terrible at counting. "Shitty" clearly only has 6 letters.

 

[Steve Dillard]

Underwhelming

 

[wutang112878]

"Sit the (expletive) down! I'm the coach of this (13-letter word) team! When you're on the bench, don't (expletive) move," Kidd said, according to NBA.com, which did not offer further details of what the 13-letter word was.
 

 
Am I the only one that thinks this is much ado about nothing?  If he said this in front of the team, it sure ruins his credibility.  But if the issue they are pointing out is his language, I mean how many coaching staffs dont have blowout arguments like this when things are going poorly?

 

[Brickowski]

These reporters are terrible at counting. "Shitty" clearly only has 6 letters.

 I'm sure it's the gerund of one of the 7 words you can't say on tv, the one right before "tits."  But "shitty" would have been more appropriate.