Great show. With only 54 episodes I guess it would take 2 days.
Bill hyped up his podcast with Charles Oakley as his greatest ever. Dunno about greatest of all times but it was very good. Fun listen.
The Bill Simmons Thread
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Bill hyped up his podcast with Charles Oakley as his greatest ever. Dunno about greatest of all times but it was very good. Fun listen.
It was fun but too many of Oakley's stories end with him just beating people up.
Still better than earlier in the week hearing Bill try to give lebron shit about joining the rockets while skating by his buddy Durant joining a team with a 2 time MVP in his prime.
So true. Bill pumps out a huge volume of NBA content and never once has the topic Kevin Durant Ruined The NBA come up. It’s not a take I agree with but it certainly deserves discussion. Bill has buried it for years. Just about everyone who does NBA content has discussed this in depth but not Bill.
I’m halfway through the Oakley podcast and I’m not sure I’ll finish. I love the legend of Oakley but I’m so tired of retired NBA players saying how much better the game was when they played. Obviously there’s Chuck, then Jalen was doing it earlier this week and now Oak.
He also needs to calm down with the “NBA is a 12 month a year sport” claim. Speculating about LeBron is a 12 month a year sport. But the general public is not as fascinated with everyone else. It’s not the cliff that Tiger Woods vs the rest of the PGA gets, but the offseason NBA talk will noticeably cool once LeBron retires.
The Oakley podcast was just okay, but remember Bill named his son Ben Oakley Simmons, so he was a little geeked out just to do a pod with him.
Spot on. There is no other player in any other sport, and certainly not in the NBA, who tilts the field/ice/court like LeBron.
I had high hopes for this one and was surprised at how boring it was. Oakley was borderline incoherent at times and mostly just rambled on how much tougher everyone was back in his day. Simmons - already a poor interviewer with how he constantly cuts off his guests - was even worse than usual in stepping on Oakley mid-sentence, when he wasn't doing his best Chris Farley Show impersonation.
I didn't realize he named is son after Oakley, so I can see how the interview would hold such significance for him. But the way it was hyped (and my anticipation of what a good Oakley interview might have been), in the end I was really, really disappointed.
Simmons hilariously attempted to address the Durant Joining The Dubs Killed The League and he totally botched it. Couldn't even believe people were thinking this, called it not even one of the top five most interesting things about The Finals. Finally, in a mock dumb guy voice imitating people who think KD to a stacked team is dumb, summed up their argument with "Huhhh Durant Uhhhh..." Followed by- "Why aren't people mad at the Warriors for recruiting KD?" All time bad take from Bill.
He said that LeBron wouldn’t join the Celtics because that would be a cop out to try and win rings, but Durant joining the Warriors was a “smart and savvy move to try and win championships.” He also said Durant joined the Warriors to try and beat LeBron, which seems false, he joined so he wouldn’t have to beat Golden State.
Bill on multiple occasions has played the “I’m a fan of basketball” card when making a point; yet he seems to ignore the fact that any fan of competitive play would be much more interested in watching Durant on a non-Warriors team.
Bill on multiple occasions has played the “I’m a fan of basketball” card when making a point; yet he seems to ignore the fact that any fan of competitive play would be much more interested in watching Durant on a non-Warriors team.
All very good points.
He's so in the tank for Durant to protect his relationship (and access) to him that he's embarrassing himself here. Other than LeBron (and now perhaps even more than LeBron), the Durant To The Stacked Dubs is the league's biggest topic and he's totally out to sea on it. At least have a thoughtful discussion on the topic instead of being a dishonest baby. He's taking it personally at this point.
There is enough Dead Serious Rick in this world and I prefer Simmons as Cool Rick. We all have our blind spots.
Also the fact that he introduced the topic by saying nobody seemed to hate the Heat when Lebron went there. What the hell is he talking about? It's probably heightened in this area because they were going head to head with the Celtics but it was a pretty similar reaction across the country (superteams=bad, Lebron/Durant couldn't win on their own). He's become such a shill for Durant
I’ve essentially stopped listening to his non-Cousin Sal podcasts because of this. I can accept blind spots, but the increasing number is making it feel like blind spotssssssssssssss.
Too bad Bill Windhorst didn’t get the first call:
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/12/kevin-durant-warriors-nba-finals-champions
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/06/12/kevin-durant-warriors-nba-finals-champions
Yes!!! I also wanted to mention that but forgot. That was exactly my take as well. I may have been screaming it out loud when I heard him say that. You couldn't move the goalposts any further if you tried.
The fact that bill ignores Durant joining a 73 win team and 2 time MVP in his prime should disqualify him from uttering a breath about the NBA. For someone who is such a historian of the game and routinely cites odd number lists to prove how smart he is (top 11 small forward of all time), it's truly embarrassing.
Bill's Durant blind spot is gaping.
Durant going to GS was unlike anything that's ever happened in the league's history. It would be Magic going to Boston. Bird going to LA. Ewing going to Chicago. Karl Malone going to Chicago.
And I liked the Oakley interview in spots, I found Oak to be pretty funny, actually. But the old canard, "In my day, players were tough." Jordan was staying out until 4am, playing golf and smoking cigars and winnings Championships. Part of this is Jordan's genius but the other part is the player's weren't locked in as impressively as they are today.
That said, Oakley talking about getting jumped multiple times by 7 guys was stupid. It's half a story, it might not even be true, and it's told from his perspective, which means he's leaving about 80% of what actually happened out.
Durant going to GS was unlike anything that's ever happened in the league's history. It would be Magic going to Boston. Bird going to LA. Ewing going to Chicago. Karl Malone going to Chicago.
And I liked the Oakley interview in spots, I found Oak to be pretty funny, actually. But the old canard, "In my day, players were tough." Jordan was staying out until 4am, playing golf and smoking cigars and winnings Championships. Part of this is Jordan's genius but the other part is the player's weren't locked in as impressively as they are today.
That said, Oakley talking about getting jumped multiple times by 7 guys was stupid. It's half a story, it might not even be true, and it's told from his perspective, which means he's leaving about 80% of what actually happened out.
Wait, what?! Simmons killed Lebron and the Heat over and over. On the day after the Decision he had an entire mailbag dedicated to fans sounding off on Lebron: http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story/_/page/simmons/100709
And look at what HE said at the time:
Calling it a blind spot is a cop out though. It's intentional for business reasons. The dude wrote a book on basketball, he's not dumb.
Bill is entering the 'Ive been around longer than you' phase of his career as he kept dropping this bomb on KOC in his latest podcast. This is an attitude Young Bill hated and called lazy. He's now doing it himself.
Bill is so full of shit. Nobody gives a rat’s ass whether or not Kevin Durant is a “top 14” player of all time, or whatever stupid, dumbass, arbitrary ranking he wastes time putting together. THE story right now is about how Durant, an all-time great and likely the 2nd best player in the league, jumped aboard a 73-win juggernaut - a few weeks after nearly beating them - and created perhaps the most dominating dynasty of the past 30-40 years of professional sports.
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I can't stand the long discussions on the pod about the state of the NBA, how many stars there are, how its a 10.5 a month sport, and why NFL stars aren't as recognizable or important. It's a relevant discussion, but it's something he seems to discuss every few weeks. Outrage and overreaction on the internet is anther topic he feels deserves constant attention. I've been a frequent listener to Simmons for a nearly a decade, but have been ignoring or turning off a lot of his podcasts over the last 6 months or so.
I agree. Wildly speculating here... but given his responsibilities within his own company, and assorted projects (NBA Finals show, etc), I don't think he honestly has enough time/energy/aptitude for thoughtful takes when he lacks an interesting non-Ringer guest. So he just retreats to tired, stale takes ("I watch basketball" "Its just harder than it was ___ years ago" "Internet culture") and w/e was happening in the Ringer's assorted "slacks" last night
The Bill Simmons podcast would probably be much more enjoyable for his fans (like us) if it was a once/twice a week, but methinks the business model for Ringer pods at this point heavily relies on Bill consistently pumping out 3 (sometimes 4) of them a week.
I enjoyed his most recent podcast with Haralabos Voulgaris. At one point, Voulgaris trolls Simmons by comparing Jayson Tatum's rookie season to Tyreke Evans' and I thought Simmons was going to lose it. It was refreshing to have someone disagree with him after a long run of podcasts involving his friends and employees.
Yes, this was good. HV is one of the few people (who get invited back on) who calls out Bill on his crap.
Good way. The OKC stuff was great. And House deadpanning, “What is Dallas doing?” made me lol.
I do find it funny how Joe House, who I believe is a D.C. attorney and his credentials for being on the air are being Bill's friend; has not one but two podcasts in addition to being a staple on both the BS Podcast and the Ringer NBA Show. I say that as a fan of Joe House.
Unfortunately, nepotism and being connected are staples of sports media employability. At least House earned his way to Simmons' top table - maybe he was first brought on the BS Report as Bill's friend, but now he's his own man.
Tony K likes House. In some respects, friends can be good or bad, but when there is chemistry it’s good. I like House as an additional member, mainly because I don’t care about golf and his food pod is over the top.
What counts as the proper credentials to talk about sports on the TV, radio, or internet?
Broadcasting school just teaches you how to not be awkward on screen/mic. Being an ex athlete supposedly means you have special knowledge about the game you played. But if people find you entertaining and want to listen to what you have to say, in a media field you are qualified to do what you do. He's not building a bridge or soaping in to do a surgery.
Love Klosterman calling Simmons on his conflict of interest with Durant after he was knocking Lebron and praising Durant for adapting to whatever system he needs to (which is probably true but not the way to do it coming from Simmons).
I'm interested to hear Klosterman's take on baseball. I know Bill is going to push his NBA is a 12 month season shit, but Klosterman almost never talks about baseball with Bill yet tends to hint at being a pretty serious fan when he was younger.
They get into baseball a little when they talk about soccer's growing popularity but it's pretty much what you said. Bill says "young kids don't watch baseball anymore. They watch their team. They all know soccer and NBA. Baseball is in trouble" which Chuck replies with "what does that mean? Baseball goes from the #2 sport to the #3 sport?" and Bill had no real answer.
This is why I'm a big Chuck Klosterman fan, because he's right. If baseball does slip to number three (and Bill's assertion that "no young kids watch baseball anymore" is both foolish and untrue), who gives a shit. MLB is not about to fold up shop because it's not the clear number one national pastime. No sports league is going anywhere unless something incredibly dramatic occurs.
I still don't understand why people give a shit whether other people watch the thing that they watch. Especially people that are a generation apart. Like I gave a shit that my parents didn't love Public Enemy or 90210 or Terminator 2? My uncle used to call my parents "commies" for allowing me to play soccer. Again, I didn't give a fuck. Different generations dig different things.
Baseball is still second most popular, even among millennials. Simmons has staked a lot of his own money on covering the NBA and he seems to have an "all my friends voted for McGovern" attitude about the popularity of basketball.
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/media-and-entertainment/our-insights/we-are-wrong-about-millennial-sports-fans
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/media-and-entertainment/our-insights/we-are-wrong-about-millennial-sports-fans
Re: sports fandom... It's the younger Millennial and Gen Z segments where baseball has seen it's biggest erosion. And to be totally accurate, MLB hasn't been the clear #2 sport in this country for a while, depending on how you look at it. #2 is often college football, behind #1 NFL. MLB and college football trade the #2 spot depending on the time of year or who is doing the survey.
Anyway, JMOH's point is the correct one. The margin between CFB, MLB and NBA fandom is slim. None of them are going out of business if their rank order is slightly different. The margin between those three and #5 is large.
Anyway, JMOH's point is the correct one. The margin between CFB, MLB and NBA fandom is slim. None of them are going out of business if their rank order is slightly different. The margin between those three and #5 is large.
I think this sums up the Bill SImmons experience. He surrounds himself with millenials who all like basketball and soccer - it's pretty much in the job description in order to be hired at the ringer. These are pretty much the only voices he hears. And then he extrapolates that to the entire country. Evidence to the contrary be damned (i.e. HIS OWN SON LIKES BASEBALL)
Exactly and also a point Chuck was making that Bill summarily dismissed.
Chuck also brought up the obvious take that people change over time and there's no rule that says people can't grow into being a baseball fan later in life. Bill of course shot that down, too. Simmons makes the 'People Change!! Stuff Happens!!' point all the time, but only when it suits his arguments.
Lastly, Bill Simmons, owner of a popular sports website, which I'm sure keeps lots data analytics on site traffic, could have surely chimed in with how many clicks an NBA story gets vs. MLB to support his arguments, but didn't.
As one of his main points Bill declared "it's just a fact" that The Ringer staff cares more about basketball and soccer than baseball, totally oblivious that the staff he hand selected possibly reflects his interests and not that of the public at large. His suggestion that Kelyian Mbappe is more famous than any baseball player in America is just beyond laughable. He also just makes shit up--the average baseball game length was 3:05 last year while he kept repeating that 4 hours was the norm.
I don't think the idea that baseball is waning in popularity is totally off, and it's fine that he doesn't like baseball. But he's so lacking in self-awareness it's just brutal to listen to when he tries to make these arguments.
I don't think the idea that baseball is waning in popularity is totally off, and it's fine that he doesn't like baseball. But he's so lacking in self-awareness it's just brutal to listen to when he tries to make these arguments.
Yes he did, referencing his experience with both Grantland and the Ringer. Pretty much exactly how you describe it too.
Game 3 of the last NLCS had lower ratings than both NBA opening night games in younger demos.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2017/10/mlb-postseason-ratings-yankees-astros-dodgers-cubs-lcs/
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2017/10/mlb-postseason-ratings-yankees-astros-dodgers-cubs-lcs/
Bill is right. The NBA is more popular with younger demos if we use social engagement, TV ratings, and merchandise sales.
You are really underselling how ridiculous BS’s original point was and much he was ballwashing Durant.
Klosterman says that the Cavs with the 2nd best player in the NBA (Durant) make the 2nd round of the playoffs at most, while LeBron took them to the finals. Simmons then says he disagrees because Durant would “empower” his teammates and since he played basketball before he sees how much more “fun” it would be to play with Durant. As an aside, Simmons talks like he’s an old NBA regular while the motherfucker barely played rec league in college. For him to act like his opinion carries more weight than anyone else who has played a random game of 5 on 5 in their life is laughable,
Klosterman then calls him out for his asinine Durant on the Cavs opinion, saying he basically has a vested interest in Durant and is incapable of looking at him without bias. Simmons then rambles for minutes about how that’s not true and how Jimmy Butler has only been on his podcast 2 less time and then tries to pivot to something else.
The whole thing was embarrassing to listen to. Never mind the fact that Durant’s biggest knock as a player is that he’s not a great playmaker/not great off the dribble or that he has literally no history of “empowering teammates”. The defense and utter lack of self awareness for just how biased he is with Durant was cringeworthy. Klostermsn, who is his friend, was actually laughing at him as he stumbled along explaining how Durant gives interviews to everyone.
