TGL - Golf in Prime Time

[cshea]

Posted about this in the PGA Tour thread but it can probably be a stand alone thread. Details are starting to trickle out including rosters and format. It seems a bit hokey to me but they have some serious committment and investments so we'll see how it goes.

Apparently this kicks off January 9th and will be played on Monday's in the winter.

Not all of the rosters have been announced but this is the teams so far:

Boston - Owned by FSG, roster is Rory McIlroy, Tyrrell Hatton, Adam Scott, Keegan Bradley
Atlanta - Owned by Arthur Blank..JT is the only announced player
New York- Owned by Steven Cohen...no players named yet
LA - Owned by Alexis Ohanian. Serena Williams and others...Collin Morikawa is the only player named
San Francisco - Minority owners include Steph Curry, Klay Tompson and Andre Iguodala...no players

Players not named to teams yet: Tiger Woods, Max Homa, Shane Lowry, Matt Fitzpatrick, Patrick Cantlay, Xander Schauffele, Wyndham Clark, Tom Kim, Tommy Fleetwood, Cam Young, Rickie Fowler, Lucas Glover (!?), Sahith Theegala, Justin Rose, Min Woo Lee, Billy Horschel, Kevin Kisner

Of Note: Jon Rahm dropped out recently.

Not sure how they divvy up the players or if there are contracts and what not. There are obvious geographic fits like Keegan in Boston and Morikawa on LA. Maybe FSG had to borrow against the Red Sox payroll to land Rory? (kidding). Maybe they dump Tiger into the New York team as the big market to get this off the ground? or SF with the Warriors/closer to home?

Format

So each night will be 2 teams playing head to head. 3 players from each team compete, 1 sits. The format is:

• 15 holes, comprised of 'Triples' and 'Singles'
• 9 holes of 'Triples' which is 3 player alternate shot. So, using Boston as an example, Rory hits the tee shot, Tyyrrell Hatton hits the approach, Adam Scott putts...until they are holed out.
• 6 holes of 'Singles' which is a head to head single hole match. Players rotate. So Rory would play hole #10 against the other teams #1 player, then for #11 Tyyrell Hatton plays the #2 on the opposing team...and so on. So the 3 team players will play 2 holes each of singles.
• Each hole is worth a point. Team with the most points after the 15 holes gets the win. If there is a tie, they will do a closest to the pin to determine the winner.
• Hockey style standings system...2 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an overtime win, 1 point for overtime loss, 0 points for regulation loss.

How exactly does this work?

They built a stadium in Florida where this will be played every week. It will hold 1,600 fans in person. It's supposed to last 2 hours. For the actual golf, it appears it works like this:

Tee shots will be it from a normal tee box into a massive simulator (20 times the size of a normal one). For approach shots, they have fairway, rough, sand, etc. that players will hit out of into the simulator. Once they are within 50-yards of the green, they transition to a 'Green Zone.' It is apparently a 3,800 square foot green complex that has all sorts of technologies so they can change the slope, speed, undulation of the greens so it's not always the same thing.

It's also unclear if they are going to use traditional golf courses or if it'll be computer designed places. Ditto to things like conditions.

I'm not sure if the plan is to continue playing exclusively in Florida or if they will try to take it on the road and play in the cities. Seems like they would really need to do that to get buy-in from fanbases. I don't know how easy it is to build the simulator and greens complex or if it's something that can travel around. Could they use the Garden or is it something where they'd need to build their own facility? I just think it will be difficult for fans to get much of a connection to the teams if they are just hanging out in Florida.

Anywho, thought it was a worthwhile topic as they are launching soon and the media tours, roster announcements and what not are begging to pick up.

 

[voidfunkt]

Not particularly excited by this, but in the middle of the winter I've got nothing better to watch and there's some novelty factor. If the personalities involved are good maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised?

 

[RedOctober3829]

Is this going to be on linear TV?

 

[cshea]

It'll be on ABC/ESPN/ESPN+

 

[jercra]

Posted about this in the PGA Tour thread but it can probably be a stand alone thread. Details are starting to trickle out including rosters and format. It seems a bit hokey to me but they have some serious committment and investments so we'll see how it goes.

Apparently this kicks off January 9th and will be played on Monday's in the winter.

Not all of the rosters have been announced but this is the teams so far:

Boston - Owned by FSG, roster is Rory McIlroy, Tyrrell Hatton, Adam Scott, Keegan Bradley
Atlanta - Owned by Arthur Blank..JT is the only announced player
New York- Owned by Steven Cohen...no players named yet
LA - Owned by Alexis Ohanian. Serena Williams and others...Collin Morikawa is the only player named
San Francisco - Minority owners include Steph Curry, Klay Tompson and Andre Iguodala...no players

Players not named to teams yet: Tiger Woods, Max Homa, Shane Lowry, Matt Fitzpatrick, Patrick Cantlay, Xander Schauffele, Wyndham Clark, Tom Kim, Tommy Fleetwood, Cam Young, Rickie Fowler, Lucas Glover (!?), Sahith Theegala, Justin Rose, Min Woo Lee, Billy Horschel, Kevin Kisner

Of Note: Jon Rahm dropped out recently.

Not sure how they divvy up the players or if there are contracts and what not. There are obvious geographic fits like Keegan in Boston and Morikawa on LA. Maybe FSG had to borrow against the Red Sox payroll to land Rory? (kidding). Maybe they dump Tiger into the New York team as the big market to get this off the ground? or SF with the Warriors/closer to home?

Format

So each night will be 2 teams playing head to head. 3 players from each team compete, 1 sits. The format is:

• 15 holes, comprised of 'Triples' and 'Singles'
• 9 holes of 'Triples' which is 3 player alternate shot. So, using Boston as an example, Rory hits the tee shot, Tyyrrell Hatton hits the approach, Adam Scott putts...until they are holed out.
• 6 holes of 'Singles' which is a head to head single hole match. Players rotate. So Rory would play hole #10 against the other teams #1 player, then for #11 Tyyrell Hatton plays the #2 on the opposing team...and so on. So the 3 team players will play 2 holes each of singles.
• Each hole is worth a point. Team with the most points after the 15 holes gets the win. If there is a tie, they will do a closest to the pin to determine the winner.
• Hockey style standings system...2 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an overtime win, 1 point for overtime loss, 0 points for regulation loss.

How exactly does this work?

They built a stadium in Florida where this will be played every week. It will hold 1,600 fans in person. It's supposed to last 2 hours. For the actual golf, it appears it works like this:

Tee shots will be it from a normal tee box into a massive simulator (20 times the size of a normal one). For approach shots, they have fairway, rough, sand, etc. that players will hit out of into the simulator. Once they are within 50-yards of the green, they transition to a 'Green Zone.' It is apparently a 3,800 square foot green complex that has all sorts of technologies so they can change the slope, speed, undulation of the greens so it's not always the same thing.

It's also unclear if they are going to use traditional golf courses or if it'll be computer designed places. Ditto to things like conditions.

I'm not sure if the plan is to continue playing exclusively in Florida or if they will try to take it on the road and play in the cities. Seems like they would really need to do that to get buy-in from fanbases. I don't know how easy it is to build the simulator and greens complex or if it's something that can travel around. Could they use the Garden or is it something where they'd need to build their own facility? I just think it will be difficult for fans to get much of a connection to the teams if they are just hanging out in Florida.

Anywho, thought it was a worthwhile topic as they are launching soon and the media tours, roster announcements and what not are begging to pick up.

It is not likely going to the cities any time soon. It's happening in Jupiter because many, many TOUR players either live there or have homes there. It's also a pretty nice place to visit in the winter. Getting the players to commit to going to Boston on a Monday night in January will be a very tough sell. The gear used to put on the production will evolve a lot over the next few years, but as of now, it's not something where there could be sets in each city that could be set up and torn down in different stadiums/arenas on a short timespan between, say, a Celtics and a Bruins game. It will probably get there, but it's not going to be soon.

Also, the green is a really big version of Full Swing's Virtual Green.

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

I guess I wouldn't be opposed to throwing it on for the spectacle if there's nothing else on but it won't be appointment viewing. I already strongly dislike team golf. I definitely don't care about a Boston team or whatever they're trying to make happen there. Initial impression is this sits below whatever the worst regular season tour event is in terms of golf importance. Seems like a solution in search of a problem (well, I guess the problem is they want to make more money and are throwing stuff at the wall).

 

[IdiotKicker]

I'll give it a try to see how the format works on TV. The good news about it being new and basically making up the rules from scratch is that if it sucks, they can adjust it. But I'd love to have some night winter golf to watch for a couple hours.

 

[cshea]

I don't think it's intended to be serious golf and serious competition. They intro'd the Boston team today and Rory was asked why do this and not LIV and he basically said this is intended to be complimentary and additive to the golf scene, not disruptive. It's a hit-and-giggle side gig. We'll see if it ever grows beyond that, but if we're ranking in terms of imporance, this definitely is well below any Tour or KFT event in the golf world.

I do think for the team thing to really take hold the players will need to set foot into their cities beyond an introductory press conference. I also think the team aspect could get interesting if it does grow and roster management like signings and trades becomes part of this.

 

[bostonbeerbelly]

I know I would watch Tiger play mini golf, so this is a step above that and if his team is playing, I will tune in for at least the first few weeks. I think the production is going to be key, are we going to get to know the players better, will there be insight into what goes into each shot, will the banter between the teammates and opponents feel forced or fun. I will take this for what it is, a group of great golfers, doing something fun, it may be utter crap and I will never follow it, but I will give it a chance.

 

[steveluck7]

Am I the only one that’s intrigued and actually really looking forward to this? Being in one location, they could really put on a good production.

 

[voidfunkt]

I'm curious if this is just an experiment in trying to find a way to market and sell golf beyond the traditional 40+ white male demographic (e.g. get the Zoomers interested), but if it is it feels like it's doomed to failed being on cable and filled with older white guys. Why not fold some of the exciting LPGA women into this? Nobody is getting excited to watch Adam Fucking Scott practice in a simulator bay.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Tiger is owning and playing on his own team out of Jupiter, Fl.
https://x.com/tgl/status/1721980897153450261?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

I don't think it's intended to be serious golf and serious competition. They intro'd the Boston team today and Rory was asked why do this and not LIV and he basically said this is intended to be complimentary and additive to the golf scene, not disruptive. It's a hit-and-giggle side gig. We'll see if it ever grows beyond that, but if we're ranking in terms of imporance, this definitely is well below any Tour or KFT event in the golf world.

I do think for the team thing to really take hold the players will need to set foot into their cities beyond an introductory press conference. I also think the team aspect could get interesting if it does grow and roster management like signings and trades becomes part of this.

I heard an interview with Rory on the radio a day or two ago, so forgive me if a paraphrase a few of his comments incorrectly, but he mentioned that last year was the first time every where more golf shots were hit inside (?) whether that be in simulators or places like Top Golf rather than out on actual courses and this is designed to adapt to some of the different ways that people are getting into the sport. He also called out that the traditional golf atmosphere can be a bit stuffy, so this is designed to make it a bit more casual.

 

[cshea]

Yeah, they are trying to innovate a bit and appeal to a new group of golf fans. The idea is you are going to see the best players (kind of), you'll see every shot they hit and it'll be done in 2 hours. They'll probably have to tinker with the teams/rosters, format and rules as they go to find the sweet spot but in general I think that's what they are going for.

Maybe they get some hooks in people who then dive into traditional golf, but it's not easy to get into traditional golf as it is. It's a massive time commitment and in many ways the product sucks too. This is just an attempt at something different.

 

[cshea]

The venue this is supposed to happen suffered serious damage. Not sure they'll be ready to go in January.

https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1725533747339018622?s=20

 

[cshea]

And postponed until 2025.

View: https://twitter.com/JoshACarpenter/status/1726634776860442709?s=20

 

[cshea]

Bumping this. The launch for this is January 7th on ESPN. They had a media day yesterday which gave us the first glimpse of the tech and how this will work.

View: https://twitter.com/BobHarig/status/1869448094179524792


View: https://twitter.com/BobHarig/status/1869456830545686715


Teams

Boston - Rory McIlroy, Adam Scott, Keegan Bradley, Hideki Matsuyama (Hideki replaced Tyrell Hatton)
Atlanta - Justin Thomas, Patrick Cantlay, Billy Horschel, Lucas Glover
Jupiter- Tiger, Tom Kim, Max homa, Kevin Kisner
Los Angeles - Collin Morikawa, Sahith Theegala, Justin Rose, Tommy Fleetwood
New York - Xander Schauffele, Matt Fitzpatrick, Rickie Fowler, Cam Young
The Bay - Ludvig Aberg, Wyndham Clark, Min Woo Lee, Shane Lowry

 

[Ale Xander]

——

 

[TimNJsoxfan]

No Scottie S

 

[TFP]

Bumping this. The launch for this is January 7th on ESPN. They had a media day yesterday which gave us the first glimpse of the tech and how this will work.

The tech admittedly looks cooler than I expected. Playing in that arena would be pretty awesome, and it's better than just ssticking them in a traditional simulator.

As long as they don't get overly corny or overly serious with it (a huge if), it could be fun. I could also see them forcing it way too much and making it hard to watch. Just play some cool holes and let the players do their thing.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Is the Bay Tampa or SF?

Check the OP

 

[cshea]

No Scottie S

Travel is my guess. Scottie and Spieth are probably the two biggest notables not participating and they both live in Texas. They probably just don't want the extra travel. A lot of the players involved live in Jupiter.

Here's a pic of the Fore Play guys in front of the screen. It is a better visual to get a feel for just how big it is,

View: https://twitter.com/TGL/status/1869434477715562908

 

[cshea]

The tech admittedly looks cooler than I expected. Playing in that arena would be pretty awesome, and it's better than just ssticking them in a traditional simulator.

As long as they don't get overly corny or overly serious with it (a huge if), it could be fun. I could also see them forcing it way too much and making it hard to watch. Just play some cool holes and let the players do their thing.

They designed 30 holes and will use 15 of them on any given night.

These are 2 holes they have released:

View: https://twitter.com/TGL/status/1867238243508387930


View: https://twitter.com/TGL/status/1867283475906101671


The Spear one looks a bit hokey to me but we'll see. I think there's definitely some fun possibilities with this.

 

[cshea]

This starts tonight at 9:00pm on ESPN. The Bay (Ludvig Aberg, Wyndham Clark, Min Woo Lee, Shane Lowry) vs. New York (Xander, Rickie Fowler, Cam Young, Matt Fitzpatrick) is the matchup.

Format:

• 15 holes
• First 9 holes are 3-man alt shot
• Final 6 holes are singles
• Each hole is worth a point. Ties at the end of the 15 holes are settled by closest to the pin.
• There is a 40 second shot clock. Each team has 2 timeouts per match that can be used.
• The course/holes are entirely computer generated.

Seems intriguing to me but we'll see.

 

[cshea]

Here's a match preview from their website. Has the players participating and the holes they'll be playing. Looks like teams set their 3 players ahead of time. I wasn't sure if there was in-game strategy where all 4 players would be available and teams pick and choose.

https://tglgolf.com/match/2025/1

I'm also not sure whey Tiger's team isn't playing. In terms of marketing and grabbing attention having him play in the first one feels like a no brainer.

 

[cshea]

Naturally if it’s a golf event there must be a college basketball game going long to delay the broadcast.

 

[ernieshore]

Bifurcation. They should have to use a soggy, old, worn down mat, Pinnacle range balls, and a rubbery tee that is too short like I do.

 

[jmm57]

The broadcast is a bit tough to follow so far, not really setting the stage for the shots. Very fast paced. Not really giving any information other than ball speed- seems crazy since they would have it all available.

 

[cshea]

This is kinda cool?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

This is kinda cool?

It's definitely fun

 

[JOBU]

No idea what the hammer is??

 

[cshea]

Makes the hole worth double.

 

[cshea]

Looks like New York has another shitty team.

 

[cshea]

The shot clock definitely impacts the putting.

 

[Eagle3]

I liked it. Needs some tweaking, but overall positive for me. The Hammer should definitely not alternate. Each team should have a max number of hammers they can throw per match, at least 3, maybe 5, and then you throw it whenever you want. Last night the team that was behind didn't have a chance to use the hammer to get back into the match because the team in the lead owned it and sat on it. Which was good strategy but bad for the sake of making the match more interesting.

 

[cshea]

Yeah, I thought it was a good watch. Not serious golf, but didn't try to be. There are obviously things to tweak as they get more experienced.

The pace is super fast. Like almost too fast, it can be hard to keep up with who is hitting and what team is where. The shot clock definitely works and in my opinion made a huge impact on the greens. They were missing 8-10 footers on the green that I think in a Tour event they would've taken the extra 30 seconds on and made. The fast pace also helps with the banter/trash talk. One of the problems with things like The Match/The Showdown is there's so much downtime that the players personalities, trash talk and banter needs to carry the broadcast. It almost always falls flat and feels forced. With 40 seconds between shots and everything moving so quick the player talk is more natural and organic and works much better than when they are trying to fill 5 minutes of air time between shots in real golf.

I thought the players were legitimately having fun. They didn't look like they were going through the motions while collecting a paycheck (See Koepka, Brooks at The Showdown).

They didn't do a great job explaining The Hammer and I agree that they need to tweak that system so that each time can throw the hammer at any time or each team has a limited number. Or maybe you throw it and if you win you retain it. Or something like that. Otherwise you get the scenario like last night where the team with a big lead gets the hammer and just stuffs it in their pocket. I believe it's derived from Wolfhammer which is a convoluted game but I believe basically anyone can throw the hammer at any time. Just do that.

Would like to see conditions added, specifically wind. I'm sure the tech can handle it. On the NLU pod after the match Max Homa said they talked about it but that as players they kind of need to feel the wind when they're playing shots. This led to some joking about turning on an actual fan as a prop while they are playing the shots. I get what Homa is saying but also...who cares? I think it would be more fun.

It goes without saying but fire DJ Khaled into the sun.

 

[jmm57]

The shot clock is great, but I think it also led to some of the issues with the broadcast- it’s hard to reset the shot with the rapid fire nature, and it’s hard to follow when they are hitting off the same area. And you also don’t want to be talking over all the player interactions.

I’d like to see an overhead map of the hole kept up on the side of the screen, and keep the data up for all shots. Those seem like easy tweaks.

I was looking forward to it and still found it fun/exceeded expectations and there is a bunch of room to improve.

I think they are smart to limit the schedule, and hopefully the week gives them a chance to fine tune some details for Tigers debut.

 

[B H Kim]

Maybe I'm not the target audience, but I found it intriguing for the first half-hour to hour, but I got bored with it and don't think I'll watch it again. It just got to be repetitious after a while.

 

[cshea]

Some of that might've been because it was a blowout.

 

[TheGazelle]

I watched a few holes and it was fun. It was definitely better than I envisioned, which was (in my very stupid mind) these guys whacking balls into a screen in a basement somewhere, like we have at my club. I liked that they have the different surfaces to play from, the shot clock was good to keep things moving (how is Cantlay going to get a shot off in time?), and the fact that they have a real green complex is fun. Am I right that every hole plays to the same green, just rotated around? If that's true then I would expect the players to really good really fast on that green as they learn the breaks, etc.

It was a good move to save Tiger for week 2 - I agree with a bunch of @jmm57's easy tweaks that would make it better when, presumably, a lot more people will watch.

 

[Eagle3]

Am I right that every hole plays to the same green, just rotated around? If that's true then I would expect the players to really good really fast on that green as they learn the breaks, etc.

It's the same green rotated, but they also have the ability to change the contour. So they can make a putt from the exact same spot on the green break in a different direction when they change the hole.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

How often do they re-sod the 'fairway' areas? I only watched the first hour or so, and wasn't really paying much attention to that part. I noticed some divots early on-- do they stay the entire round?

I was surprised how lackluster the chipping/sand-game was. Tiger did mention that the lighting makes it tougher to get a sense of the grain, so that may have been a part of it.

 

[TheGazelle]

It's the same green rotated, but they also have the ability to change the contour. So they can make a putt from the exact same spot on the green break in a different direction when they change the hole.

Got it - thanks.

 

[cshea]

How often do they re-sod the 'fairway' areas? I only watched the first hour or so, and wasn't really paying much attention to that part. I noticed some divots early on-- do they stay the entire round?

I was surprised how lackluster the chipping/sand-game was. Tiger did mention that the lighting makes it tougher to get a sense of the grain, so that may have been a part of it.

I don't think they changed the turf during the match. They didn't look too beat up by the end but they do have extras on site. For the fairway one the players can place it so it's basically just a regular range divot line. I didn't really think about it but for the rough one they're supposed to drop the ball. Wonder what they'll do if the ball rolls into an existing divot. It didn't seem like there were a ton of shots from the rough though anyway.

I think part of the lackluster chipping is the shot clock. They don't have the time to go through their normal routine of walking up and around the green to get a feel for where it's landing and roll out and break and all that. At least not to the extent they do in a normal tournament. It's more take a peek then go back and hit it. Can't stalk it. Can't take a ton of practice chips to feel the ground, bounce, grain, etc. either.

 

[Over Guapo Grande]

I think part of the lackluster chipping is the shot clock. They don't have the time to go through their normal routine of walking up and around the green to get a feel for where it's landing and roll out and break and all that. At least not to the extent they do in a normal tournament. It's more take a peek then go back and hit it. Can't stalk it. Can't take a ton of practice chips to feel the ground, bounce, grain, etc. either.

So it is like us mortals, when we have a group waiting behind us on a Saturday AM. I like that!

 

[Eagle3]

I think part of the lackluster chipping is the shot clock. They don't have the time to go through their normal routine of walking up and around the green to get a feel for where it's landing and roll out and break and all that. At least not to the extent they do in a normal tournament. It's more take a peek then go back and hit it. Can't stalk it. Can't take a ton of practice chips to feel the ground, bounce, grain, etc. either.

Also, I don't think the grass around the green is real, right? So they have to figure out the feel of chipping out of fake grass. Give them a few rounds and they'll improve dramatically.

I definitely would like to see wind added. Who cares if they can't "feel" it. If they know the actual wind speed and direction, and the simulator is accurate, it should be easier than playing outside in real wind. They'll learn quickly that 10 mph left to right = aim 5 yards left, or whatever the formula turns out to be. That would be in Bryson's wheelhouse.

 

[Leon Trotsky]

I only watched for 20 minutes, but I thought the arena was really cool. And it was weird to hear people cheering/trash talk whatever, but that was a good change of pace. I won't watch regularly, but seems like a worthwhile endeavor for the never ending need for TV/streaming content.

 

[cshea]

Also, I don't think the grass around the green is real, right? So they have to figure out the feel of chipping out of fake grass. Give them a few rounds and they'll improve dramatically.

I definitely would like to see wind added. Who cares if they can't "feel" it. If they know the actual wind speed and direction, and the simulator is accurate, it should be easier than playing outside in real wind. They'll learn quickly that 10 mph left to right = aim 5 yards left, or whatever the formula turns out to be. That would be in Bryson's wheelhouse.

Was thinking about the wind a little more...I think a problem is they can't replicate it on the green. They can't have them hit drives and approach shots with a 20 mph wind and then go chip and putt in calm conditions. That seems a bit too much, plus the gambling angle.

Anyway, match 2 tonight. LA (Rose, Morikawa, Theegala) vs. Jupiter (Tiger, Kisner, Homa).

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Tiger? Yea, I'll watch that. He should look pretty good not having to walk around a course at all.

 

[Average Reds]

I watched about three holes last night and one of the things that made me feel better about myself - because, yes, it’s all about me - is that the pros have the same issues with the simulator that we do.

To be specific, I’ve always been frustrated because I can’t get a simulator to give me consistently accurate distances, especially for “touch” shots of 60 or so yards. After watching Tiger hit a 55 yard pitch shot to 35 feet - an incomprehensible miss for him - I felt much better. When he then putted 15 feet past the hole, I was laughing pretty hard.

My guess is that these guys will eventually adjust and start dialing it in, but it’s nice to see them look mortal every so often.