Sports Cards Mania

JoePoulson

Well-Known Member
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Feb 28, 2006
2,755
Orlando, FL
Just finished hanging a third display! Now I'm done, and I'm hoping to sell off most of what I can't fit inside these three:

64520
 

Fishercat

Svelte and sexy!
SoSH Member
May 18, 2007
8,397
Manchester, N.H.
So, in sports card news, I think we're getting a bit of insight into the Fanatics direction - 2023 Bowman Sapphire is an online exclusive Dutch auction

2023 Bowman Sapphire - Online Exclusive Dutch Auction (topps.com)

The product is also a lower print run with more guaranteed hits (3 color and 1 auto whereas last year was a guaranteed auto and I think one color was likely)...but the "floor" price is nearly two times the MSRP of last year's product.

This is how Panini sells their "First of the Line" boxes - basically the price starts at an obscenely high point (in this case, $850) and then reduces every five minutes until it sells out or hits floor.

It definitely supports the notion that Fanatics is leaning hard into the breaker culture direction and away from the personal consumption direction unless people have the pockets to pay up.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,830
Love that Pedro. I got the 22 Gulded Yaz auto (/20)

This just arrived today:

64973
 
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Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
74,269
Anyone go to the Fenway card show this weekend? If so, how was it? Worth the crazy admission fee? Ortiz signage fee seemed insane, too.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,830
Can you show the backs? (So I can figure out which sets)
Pretty sure all but the bottom right are Corona Monarch, which are not technically "real" cards, but super-cool custom designed and printed cards. The bottom right is a 2018 Topps Stadium Club
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I remember learning about “Spanish names” when I asked my dad why Bob Clemente changed his name to Roberto Clemente. It was about the same time that I found out that Julian Javier’s name was pronounced as if it started with the letter H, not J.

The More You Know.
 

Fishercat

Svelte and sexy!
SoSH Member
May 18, 2007
8,397
Manchester, N.H.
As a follow up to an earlier post, I had always said if I ever hit a 1/1 I would try and build the rainbox, then I hit this one. Luckily, this wasn't too bad of a rainbow as the next lowest parallel is to /10 and it was around product release. There are two parallels I am missing but they are in a different subset of the product and redemptions so I'm considering this complete until if/when I can get them.

With all that said, here's the R(ainbow)-Truth for 2023 WWE Prizm's Sensational Signatures.

View: https://imgur.com/a/4fKkYrn


(Gold/10, Mojo/25, Blue/49, Black/1, Red/99, Silver, Base)
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,830
As a follow up to an earlier post, I had always said if I ever hit a 1/1 I would try and build the rainbox, then I hit this one. Luckily, this wasn't too bad of a rainbow as the next lowest parallel is to /10 and it was around product release. There are two parallels I am missing but they are in a different subset of the product and redemptions so I'm considering this complete until if/when I can get them.

With all that said, here's the R(ainbow)-Truth for 2023 WWE Prizm's Sensational Signatures.

View: https://imgur.com/a/4fKkYrn


(Gold/10, Mojo/25, Blue/49, Black/1, Red/99, Silver, Base)
That's nuts. I'm more interested in what the other box sets are, though. The white one could be the National, but I doubt it. No clue about the other few.
 
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DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,336
Collector pulls 1/1 Druw Jones trading card, could make big bet on top prospect’s future - The Athletic

An Ohio card collector faces a weighty decision after pulling an autographed Druw Jones Superfractor card, of which there is only one in existence. Here’s what you need to know:

  • Dave and Adam’s Card World, a memorabilia dealer, offered whoever pulled the card a $250,000 bounty for it up front if it was found within 30 days of its April 26 release.
  • Here’s the catch: Dave and Adam’s also gave the option of $1 million if the 19-year-old Jones, selected with the No. 2 pick in the 2022 MLB Draft by the Diamondbacks, makes the Hall of Fame as a position player.
 

Fishercat

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SoSH Member
May 18, 2007
8,397
Manchester, N.H.
That's nuts. I'm more interested in what the other box sets are, though. The white one could be the National, but I doubt it. No clue about the other few.
Ah, my true collecting passion at this point - vinyl. :)

From left to right on that particular level:

  • Aretha Franklin - Atlantic Records (1960s Collection)
  • Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (Super Deluxe)
  • Almost Famous OST (Super Deluxe)
  • Beyonce - Homecoming
  • The Black Keys - El Camino (Super Deluxe)
  • The Beatles - Let It Be (Super Deluxe)
 

Fishercat

Svelte and sexy!
SoSH Member
May 18, 2007
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Manchester, N.H.
Very cool that it was pulled by an individual collector as opposed to a breaker - nothing against breaks but it's always fun to see that it can happen to a person.

The collector is also certified loco if he doesn't take the 250k IMO. No minor leaguer (IMO) is ever a 25% chance to be a HoFer, especially not Druw Jones, and even if so that'd take 15-20 year to pay out minimum. I doubt it pulls over 250k at auction.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,336
Very cool that it was pulled by an individual collector as opposed to a breaker - nothing against breaks but it's always fun to see that it can happen to a person.
It wasn't a breaker, but it was a card shop owner.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,830
Ah, my true collecting passion at this point - vinyl. :)

From left to right on that particular level:

  • Aretha Franklin - Atlantic Records (1960s Collection)
  • Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (Super Deluxe)
  • Almost Famous OST (Super Deluxe)
  • Beyonce - Homecoming
  • The Black Keys - El Camino (Super Deluxe)
  • The Beatles - Let It Be (Super Deluxe)
Nice.
 

Fishercat

Svelte and sexy!
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May 18, 2007
8,397
Manchester, N.H.
For DotB and the rant on Panini redemptions.

An Instagram user has the 1/1 Dual Logoman Redemption of Jayson Tatum and Lonzo Ball from 17-18 out to Panini for redemption for several years now. Entered prior to redemption expiration date and in progress on Panini's site. Except...the same exact card was sold on eBay on May 23rd of this year, the seller has the card in hand via several photos, and nothing has been disclosed to how it got to the seller or how a 1/1 got around the redemption process. Just as your quasi-regular reminder that Panini redemptions aren't exactly locks to come back as cards.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
42,216
For DotB and the rant on Panini redemptions.

An Instagram user has the 1/1 Dual Logoman Redemption of Jayson Tatum and Lonzo Ball from 17-18 out to Panini for redemption for several years now. Entered prior to redemption expiration date and in progress on Panini's site. Except...the same exact card was sold on eBay on May 23rd of this year, the seller has the card in hand via several photos, and nothing has been disclosed to how it got to the seller or how a 1/1 got around the redemption process. Just as your quasi-regular reminder that Panini redemptions aren't exactly locks to come back as cards.
Don't even get me started. It's fucking ridiculous. I got someone on the phone like 2 months ago, said he would "escalate it" and still, nada. It's the biggest fucking scam in all of sports collecting.

I'd need to see the redemption on Insta to confirm it's an Immaculate redemption, but this is the Ebay listing for that card. Clear as day that the person that sold that card received it as a redemption, so they didn't go around the redemption process. Panini probably just had multiple ones floating out there, who the fuck knows. But you can tell it's a redemption because of the Panini seal on the one touch holder:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166061494174?hash=item26aa094f9e:g:Wn8AAOSwcUpkTVHy&amdata=enc:AQAIAAABAMdgCPrX31Tx50sk89MhgEBIXI6f/61dAuBCql0u3/MCRRIqhlbR2IF8EsDkNCQpsdL028gFMhLE0qkH54fjNMDbYNFPnbAHw7UYIMMq5kMkMqjnh3OjfVZvfZJ7tMQnontOLWs2PcE0jsNmwhos6Hu+Cg7SSoIbNAbcuFyqtkzS6N4cSOXBHjyqWb5tMkl/dlotaofTd2O8fcR/8eFaeLe9XOl2NHfjwsbO7RQ4jXKqWdc41JFpbArhS3wgf8iukhdnZ4YrPkIVGV5ShS05c4QWrKRn8N7FNULJnf5LiG3/74wSLAf9bOS074njOnjyopSyTnl9QUV3vLfQAquHwss=|tkp:Bk9SR9DUuLyKYg&nma=true&si=LtvBfoYq7%2FqZwPGa0gN2%2FSC4rok%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
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Manchester, N.H.
Don't even get me started. It's fucking ridiculous. I got someone on the phone like 2 months ago, said he would "escalate it" and still, nada. It's the biggest fucking scam in all of sports collecting.

I'd need to see the redemption on Insta to confirm it's an Immaculate redemption, but this is the Ebay listing for that card. Clear as day that the person that sold that card received it as a redemption, so they didn't go around the redemption process. Panini probably just had multiple ones floating out there, who the fuck knows. But you can tell it's a redemption because of the Panini seal on the one touch holder:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166061494174?hash=item26aa094f9e:g:Wn8AAOSwcUpkTVHy&amdata=enc:AQAIAAABAMdgCPrX31Tx50sk89MhgEBIXI6f/61dAuBCql0u3/MCRRIqhlbR2IF8EsDkNCQpsdL028gFMhLE0qkH54fjNMDbYNFPnbAHw7UYIMMq5kMkMqjnh3OjfVZvfZJ7tMQnontOLWs2PcE0jsNmwhos6Hu+Cg7SSoIbNAbcuFyqtkzS6N4cSOXBHjyqWb5tMkl/dlotaofTd2O8fcR/8eFaeLe9XOl2NHfjwsbO7RQ4jXKqWdc41JFpbArhS3wgf8iukhdnZ4YrPkIVGV5ShS05c4QWrKRn8N7FNULJnf5LiG3/74wSLAf9bOS074njOnjyopSyTnl9QUV3vLfQAquHwss=|tkp:Bk9SR9DUuLyKYg&nma=true&si=LtvBfoYq7%2FqZwPGa0gN2%2FSC4rok%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CspktHvpnFz/?igshid=NzJjY2FjNWJiZg==


That is where I saw it. There is always the potential that this is a shop but it's a weird shop if so and this guy clearly traffics in the high end
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
42,216
So...did they put the 1/1 card into circulation, or are there more than 1 of them? Either way...what the fuck? How can this not be lawsuit worthy?
Seems to me they put more than one redemption for the same 1/1 into circulation, and then only allowed one person to receive it (the person that sold it for 35k). If true, it's complete horseshit, and 100% lawsuit worthy, IMO.

The other option, and only one I can think of is even worse. Panini had the card, made a redemption for it, never filled the redemption hoping it would go down in value, then it didn't and somebody at Panini cuffed it or gave it to a friend to sell. If I'm reading the blurry link right, the name of the seller was "thenandnowcollectibles" on Ebay.

They are strange, have a ton of high end cards (think of the stuff I posted, and multiply it by thousands of cards). But when you click on their screen name, it brings you to an Ebay store for "Cardboard Utopia." When you click on their rating, 9000 or so, it brings you to the same place, instead of being able to see their actual reviews.

Whole thing is fucked.

Frankly, I think the fact that these companies even put redemptions into products is lawsuit worthy. And if that's not enough, the fact they sit on them for years is lawsuit worthy, and if that's not enough, the fact they pick the replacement card and the value is based on the value of the date in which they decide to fill the redemption is lawsuit worthy. Like I've said before, I'm waiting on cards that should have been worth thousands when I got the redemption that are worth a tiny percentage of that now, but when Panini decides to fill them, they'll base it on today's value. It's infuriating. Notably, the only redemptions they haven't filled at this point are the ones that are still worth real money. All of the others got filled basically right after it was clear the cards weren't worth anything, years after the players were rookies (but the redemptions were received before or during their rookie years, the most valuable moment for their cards).
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
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Nov 17, 2010
14,520
Seems to me they put more than one redemption for the same 1/1 into circulation, and then only allowed one person to receive it (the person that sold it for 35k). If true, it's complete horseshit, and 100% lawsuit worthy, IMO.

The other option, and only one I can think of is even worse. Panini had the card, made a redemption for it, never filled the redemption hoping it would go down in value, then it didn't and somebody at Panini cuffed it or gave it to a friend to sell. If I'm reading the blurry link right, the name of the seller was "thenandnowcollectibles" on Ebay.

They are strange, have a ton of high end cards (think of the stuff I posted, and multiply it by thousands of cards). But when you click on their screen name, it brings you to an Ebay store for "Cardboard Utopia." When you click on their rating, 9000 or so, it brings you to the same place, instead of being able to see their actual reviews.

Whole thing is fucked.

Frankly, I think the fact that these companies even put redemptions into products is lawsuit worthy. And if that's not enough, the fact they sit on them for years is lawsuit worthy, and if that's not enough, the fact they pick the replacement card and the value is based on the value of the date in which they decide to fill the redemption is lawsuit worthy. Like I've said before, I'm waiting on cards that should have been worth thousands when I got the redemption that are worth a tiny percentage of that now, but when Panini decides to fill them, they'll base it on today's value. It's infuriating. Notably, the only redemptions they haven't filled at this point are the ones that are still worth real money. All of the others got filled basically right after it was clear the cards weren't worth anything, years after the players were rookies (but the redemptions were received before or during their rookie years, the most valuable moment for their cards).
I mean, the fact that they haven't been taken to court is bizarre. We're not the only people that realize this is going on. It makes me believe that lawyers won't touch a case, so they must have protected themselves well with fine print and loopholes on the value of the industry.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,216
I mean, the fact that they haven't been taken to court is bizarre. We're not the only people that realize this is going on. It makes me believe that lawyers won't touch a case, so they must have protected themselves well with fine print and loopholes on the value of the industry.
This case started in 2019, but I can't find any updates, although I know the Plaintiff's attorney died along the way....

There have been others based on some weird unlawful lottery argument, that were dismissed.

I honestly just don't think there are lawyers out there with the resources to put together a class action suit, that are really aware of it, or understand it, and the damages in most cases aren't really high enough to justify litigation on a singe plaintiff basis. It's what Panini and Topps are probably counting on.

Heres the link: https://www.sportscardradio.com/brashear-v-panini-america-inc-redemption-card-lawsuit/
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

posts way less than 18% useful shit
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2010
14,520
This case started in 2019, but I can't find any updates, although I know the Plaintiff's attorney died along the way....

There have been others based on some weird unlawful lottery argument, that were dismissed.

I honestly just don't think there are lawyers out there with the resources to put together a class action suit, that are really aware of it, or understand it, and the damages in most cases aren't really high enough to justify litigation on a singe plaintiff basis. It's what Panini and Topps are probably counting on.

Heres the link: https://www.sportscardradio.com/brashear-v-panini-america-inc-redemption-card-lawsuit/
I think there's so much variability that it's impossible to prove what the actual financial impact is for a group of people. Because each card has its own value, each card depreciates at varying speed, and each redemption gets redeemed in its own time, I think proving financial impact at a large scale is really hard.

That link you provided cited an individual suing Topps for a redemption dispute and winning about $1500. I think individuals will have a better chance of success because of the ability to actually show malice and financial impact by a company. And Im sure the card companies know that they'll make more money than they'll have individuals follow through with lawsuit.

I wonder if the better approach is getting the government involved to regulate or put enforceable rules/timelines in place.
 

DanoooME

above replacement level
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Mar 16, 2008
19,986
Henderson, NV
I think there's so much variability that it's impossible to prove what the actual financial impact is for a group of people. Because each card has its own value, each card depreciates at varying speed, and each redemption gets redeemed in its own time, I think proving financial impact at a large scale is really hard.

That link you provided cited an individual suing Topps for a redemption dispute and winning about $1500. I think individuals will have a better chance of success because of the ability to actually show malice and financial impact by a company. And Im sure the card companies know that they'll make more money than they'll have individuals follow through with lawsuit.

I wonder if the better approach is getting the government involved to regulate or put enforceable rules/timelines in place.
Isn't this a classic situation that requires a class action lawsuit? Class actions generally suck for the plaintiffs, but maybe this is a situation where part of the suit is "no more redemption cards" or some significant rules around redemptions and really stick it to Panini.
 

Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
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Manchester, N.H.
Fanatics/Topps is still messing with the odds structure of their varying formats. Series 1 was pretty much Jumbo being better for nearly everything but base inserts. Bowman was better at retail for color and jumbos for autos. Series 2 it seems odds wise Hobby and Fat Packs/Hangers are king for color variations. So just in case you're looking at buying Series 2 when it comes out and going Yoshida hunting, it's probably worth looking at Hobby again unless you really want that auto guaranteed from a jumbo.
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

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Jun 2, 2016
1,012
Hanover, PA
How has your guys' luck been with 2023 Bowman? I buy some every year and the prices go up and the pack odds go down. I usually only buy retail for Bowman and in years past, I seem to remember hitting at least 1 color variation, many times multiple variations in every blaster. Autos ran an average of probably 1 every 3 blasters. I have purchased 7 so far this year and hit zero autos and 3 color variations - /150, /399, /499 - none of which where a bowman 1st, so not worth anything. Zero chrome Dru Jones, Spencer Jones, De Paula, Collier, Jorge, Casemiro in 42 packs! I think my best pull was a chrome Crawford for the Phillies. I think I am done with Bowman if this is the trend. I understand this is a big lottery and I enjoy collecting the prospects, but man what a let down.
 

Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
8,397
Manchester, N.H.
How has your guys' luck been with 2023 Bowman? I buy some every year and the prices go up and the pack odds go down. I usually only buy retail for Bowman and in years past, I seem to remember hitting at least 1 color variation, many times multiple variations in every blaster. Autos ran an average of probably 1 every 3 blasters. I have purchased 7 so far this year and hit zero autos and 3 color variations - /150, /399, /499 - none of which where a bowman 1st, so not worth anything. Zero chrome Dru Jones, Spencer Jones, De Paula, Collier, Jorge, Casemiro in 42 packs! I think my best pull was a chrome Crawford for the Phillies. I think I am done with Bowman if this is the trend. I understand this is a big lottery and I enjoy collecting the prospects, but man what a let down.
I bought a couple blasters to similar effect. There are hits but I sure haven't hit them. One color to /499 (at least a first...) and some decent name chromes (Crawford lunar, Collier base) I liked Mega Boxes a bit more better. The base packs have no inserts so it's just the two chrome and paper. The two mojo packs add ten more cards that aren't paper and while it's still not likely you get anything great, your bigger names have mojos, autos do exist, color exists, etc. I haven't bought one for myself but did a break to get some Sox mojo and liked it more than blasters.

I've had some luck in breaks with cheaper and mid priced teams but, honestly, at the price its at you need a BIG hit to make it reasonable for any team. I think Bowman as a product is in Panini territory at pricing where even a great box isn't going to be a good deal and you need speculation + luck + a great hit to make it feel okay.
 

Green (Tongued) Monster

Member
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Jun 2, 2016
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Hanover, PA
I bought a couple blasters to similar effect. There are hits but I sure haven't hit them. One color to /499 (at least a first...) and some decent name chromes (Crawford lunar, Collier base) I liked Mega Boxes a bit more better. The base packs have no inserts so it's just the two chrome and paper. The two mojo packs add ten more cards that aren't paper and while it's still not likely you get anything great, your bigger names have mojos, autos do exist, color exists, etc. I haven't bought one for myself but did a break to get some Sox mojo and liked it more than blasters.

I've had some luck in breaks with cheaper and mid priced teams but, honestly, at the price its at you need a BIG hit to make it reasonable for any team. I think Bowman as a product is in Panini territory at pricing where even a great box isn't going to be a good deal and you need speculation + luck + a great hit to make it feel okay.
Unfortunate that it has gotten this bad with hits and they really seem to be taking advantage. When is the pendulum going to swing back with this market? Part of the fun with Bowman is getting those obscure prospect autos and being able to follow their path, hoping they break out.

Still trying to find that happy medium of having fun ripping/collecting while being able to unload some value on ebay (of course I am not delusional in recouping my investment). I will not buy panini due to the licensing issue, but I have bought some really neat jersey cards from leaf in the game line where they just show pictures of the back of the jerseys beside the relics and it isn't obvious they are hiding anything. They also come in the sealed one touch cases which are nice for helping to hold value.

For ripping packs, it's hard not to be disappointed lately. Guess I will stick with flagship/heritage/archives for ripping and gamble with clearly authentic or signature series when possible.