Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread
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What a garbage decision. A friend and I figured that Bradley maybe won 3 rounds. Those scores were terrible and no where near the realm of reality. Big black eye for the sport of boxing. HUGE!!!
EDIT: The judges gave 8 out of the last 9 rounds to Bradley. Really? Just absolutely horrible. I wonder if there is a way to appeal the decision based on the scoring of the fight alone. CompuBox doesn't lie.
EDIT: The judges gave 8 out of the last 9 rounds to Bradley. Really? Just absolutely horrible. I wonder if there is a way to appeal the decision based on the scoring of the fight alone. CompuBox doesn't lie.
Can't blame the ref, but the judges...yes. I get what you mean though, lol.
Good luck to Mr. Bradley. He may be the paper champion, but he's gonna have a seriously rough go of ever trying to be the people's.
Well, Bradley said during one of his 24/7 interviews that he wanted to be the best and he always gets what he wants. I guess we know now that he has the funding to back that up.
When they're all corrupt, who cares what you call'em. aimiright?
BTW, the 2 judges just seen driving off in their shiny new Mercedes.
The decision was dictated by gambling.. nothing more. It matters to nobody else - although considering the money that some people might've lost on that fight... if I was one of those judges... Probably why Manny had that smirk... what does he care what 3 faceless judges say?
Seriously folks, I thought most of the Bradley' punches in the late rounds were all blocked.
Brian Campbell on ESPN: "Pacquiao outlanded Bradley in power punches 190-108"
Brian Campbell on ESPN: "Pacquiao outlanded Bradley in power punches 190-108"
ESPN: "Just hearing Tim Bradley say after the fight, "Well, I have to go back to the tape and see if I won the fight." That is telling"
Yeah, when does the winner say THAT?
It will be interesting to see the fallout from this and if the match later is declared a "no contest" upon further review. Question is: Is there a process of review of these scores or every fight in Nevada?
This was the worst big fight decision since Lewis-Holyfield I. Dan Rafael tweeted that Jim Lampley told him it was the worst decision he'd ever seen, but that first Lewis-Holyfield fight was pretty bad.
Cherry on top of the shit sundae...I'm officially done with Boxing and the NBA the same night. Fitting.
I figured Bradley might have won only two rounds, maybe three. When I heard the first score, I was already in a state of shock. I kind of figured that something was going wrong after that.
I'll say something... I mentioned to my gf at the time how I thought it was weird that Bradley's trainer kept counting the rounds to go... but never seemed to be giving him an idea how he was losing the fight and needed to pick it up/go for the KO, etc.. I didn't think it was because of THIS.. I thought he was just trying to get his fighter through alive.
At the very end he said something like "1 more round til history!" And I was thinking... huh? Maybe you should let him know he's losing 10 rounds to 1! Guess not.
At the very end he said something like "1 more round til history!" And I was thinking... huh? Maybe you should let him know he's losing 10 rounds to 1! Guess not.
That was kind of wierd and now it looks/sounds like a foreshadowing of what was to come.
Trusting judges is always a bad move in boxing. Even if they're not corrupt (and not saying they weren't in this fight, given the reported late action on Bradley), they are often just wrong. Manny had several chances to go in for the kill on Bradley and he never did. Then in the final few rounds he eased up on the gas pedal. Not as bad as De La Hoya against Trinidad, but kind of the same thing. He was still winning rounds (in my book) but he was allowing Bradley to look good.
Doesn't take away from the fact that this decision was historically bad horseshit. But Pacquiao has to take some blame for allowing it to happen. He could have and should have ended it in he middle rounds. And why he coasted through the final few rounds is a mystery to me.
It wil be very interesting to see the judges' round-by-round scorecards. I would guess they gave Bradley the benefit of the doubt in each of those later rounds where Pacquiao eased up a bit.
Doesn't take away from the fact that this decision was historically bad horseshit. But Pacquiao has to take some blame for allowing it to happen. He could have and should have ended it in he middle rounds. And why he coasted through the final few rounds is a mystery to me.
It wil be very interesting to see the judges' round-by-round scorecards. I would guess they gave Bradley the benefit of the doubt in each of those later rounds where Pacquiao eased up a bit.
True, GCPT, but even if you give the 1st and the last FOUR, very generously, that's only 5. And that's assuming today's Bradley's birthday and just hit to lotto.
I believe Jim Lampley said on all 3 scorecards that they had Bradley winning 8 of the last 9 rounds. That is what Lampley said in the post fight conversation.
Teddy Atlas with strong words on this video clip:
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/8032414/timothy-bradley-beats-manny-pacquiao-controversial-split-decision
The funniest quote from Arum. I shit you not:
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/8032414/timothy-bradley-beats-manny-pacquiao-controversial-split-decision
The funniest quote from Arum. I shit you not:
Noticed that too. Was waiting for Bradley's trainer to tell him he was going to need the KO. When I heard that I was definitely perplexed. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure the first thing I heard Freddie Roach say to Pacquiao when he sat down after round 11 was that he needed a knockout. Completely ass-backwards. Very, very strange. Also odd that Bradley's corner hoisted him up after the match considering it wasn't even close, which seemed to initially confuse the announcers as well.
Hey, I totally agree! I'm just saying that boxing is what it is and the only way to prevent incompetent and/or corrupt decisions is to knock your opponent the fuck out. I thought Pacquiao had several chances to go for it tonight but he never took them, then he let Bradley get back into the fight sometime around round 8 or 9.
Emanuel Stwerad once said, "I wish every fight could end in a knockout." And I do too!
I hear ya GCPT.
But you gotta think Pacman & Roach never thought the judges would score 8 out of the last 9 for Bradley. Just goes to tell you, gotta knock'em out to make'em sure.
Bob Arum: "I went over to Bradley before the decision and he said, 'I tried hard but couldn't beat the guy." - ESPN
Per Dan Rafael, Bradley's manager (Cameron Dunkin) had it 8-4 for Pacquiao.
Per Dan Rafael, Bradley's manager (Cameron Dunkin) had it 8-4 for Pacquiao.
I believe that this was for the last three rounds. So the last three rounds on three scorecards equals 9 rounds. They had Bradley winning 8 of those 9 rounds.
What's so outrageous to me - as I think Lampley noted - is that usually it's the big money fighter who gets the calls, like Williams and Holyfield. Bradley was not in control of that fight for one second. All the post round and post fight highlights were from Pacquiao. Just a brutal, brutal decision and a brutal day for boxing.
I like your style, playa, you move fast! Who's the new chick?
Anyway, unreal decision. After the Celts debacle I quickly set up to stream the fight and lay a few wagers. Took over 9.5 rounds, and took a flyer on Bradley at +310. Just needed the over to break even, so imagine my surprise when I heard the decision. I won, but what a joke.
I'd like to rewatch the fight with the sound off, as Kellerman himself suggested. It's possible my/our views were skewed, but I don't think this one fails the eyeball test. I'm curious to hear about the on the street reaction in Vegas.
Go OKC.
EDIT- BTW, anyone hear on the post-fight Sportcenter how the guy referred to Manny getting upset by AVERY Bradley? I rewound it three times and I'm sure that's what he said. He sure as hell didn't say Timothy.
Check out the other athletes' reactions to the decision. Love the DeLaHoya's. Pry him away from Arum, Oscar!
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/8032527/athletes-stunned-decision-bradley
https://twitter.com/OscarDeLaHoya/status/211697168250187777
http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/8032527/athletes-stunned-decision-bradley
https://twitter.com/OscarDeLaHoya/status/211697168250187777
Atlas says it's fishy that it was Pacquiao's last contracted fight with Arum, and now he gets the rematch.
Let the conspiracy theories flourish. The contract had a rematch clause - even the Nov. 10th date. Fuck, let Oscar sign Pacman to Golden Boy after the rematch.
Also, it's highly unlikely that Mayweather would have fought Pac right out of the clink anyway, so of course this is a convenient way to get both guys a tune-up and to increase the anticipation for Pac's next fight
Here are the round-by-round scorecards. The later rounds were indeed the difference (on these cards). I gave Bradley round 11 myself. Duane Ford gave Bradley every round from 7-12 EXCEPT 11:
[sub]As If the world needed anymore evidence that Bob Arum is the devil of this era of boxing. In a way I was ecstatic after the decision because it was such a clear fix. Manny has been put in there with bums during this whole magical run to line Arum's pockets and then they pull this sht. Lmao. It was awesome. They never have any intention of fighting anyone that is not top rank.[/sub]
And even though Manny clearly won the fight, he still fights like a 2nd grader on the school yard. Just absolute wild monkey sloppy boxing and his power is f'n overrated. He hit Bradley flush all night with his left hand and didn't knock him out. Well not all night, half the time he was punching at air because Bradley did a decent job moving.
....
Sportscenter just showed a bradley tweet of the rematch poster from before the fight. lmao. Arum. F you.
And even though Manny clearly won the fight, he still fights like a 2nd grader on the school yard. Just absolute wild monkey sloppy boxing and his power is f'n overrated. He hit Bradley flush all night with his left hand and didn't knock him out. Well not all night, half the time he was punching at air because Bradley did a decent job moving.
....
Sportscenter just showed a bradley tweet of the rematch poster from before the fight. lmao. Arum. F you.
I'm out here in Vegas and was at the fight last night
Line dropped considerably in the last few hours before the fight. The fix was in here and someone with a ton of money knew it.
Absolute robbery.
Line dropped considerably in the last few hours before the fight. The fix was in here and someone with a ton of money knew it.
Absolute robbery.
As people have said, this type of "decision" is the reason boxing is dead to the vast majority of casual fans. I remember watching fights in the 90's and thinking; Christ, its flat out FIXED and they aren't even very good at trying to hide it. I have not watched a boxing match in over 15 years and i certainly would not pay money for a pre determined outcome in what seems to be the case in too many fights. It was moving in the direction of wrestling.
For the fix to be in, Manny would have had to be in on it -- because there was always a string posisbility of a KO. Bradley is hittable and Manny can hit.
On one hand, Manny fought without enugh intensity and should have gone for the KO earlier. On the other hand, my gut just tells me that Manny isn't the type of guy to throw a fight and there's nothing in it for him anyway.
I think the late betting action on Bradley was just last-minute doubts about Pacquiao's focus coming off the Marquez fight. I don't buy the "fix" idea. I think this was just judging incompetence.
On one hand, Manny fought without enugh intensity and should have gone for the KO earlier. On the other hand, my gut just tells me that Manny isn't the type of guy to throw a fight and there's nothing in it for him anyway.
I think the late betting action on Bradley was just last-minute doubts about Pacquiao's focus coming off the Marquez fight. I don't buy the "fix" idea. I think this was just judging incompetence.
I haven't watched Boxing in years (mostly for exactly the reasons stated in this thread), but it looks like the stats you quote are for power shots only.
FWIW, punches were even worse with Pac at 253-751 (34%) and Bradley at 159-839 (19%) (also quoted from ESPN.com)
The reason I am so interested in this is because I have literally never seen such an outcry from so many avenues of something be "shameful" "shocking" and "wrong" in sports. I guess Galaragga's near perfect game a few years ago may be close, but that was more of a split second thing than something over 12 rounds of boxing. I've gotten the feeling over the last decade or so, with the rise of UFC and other strange decisions like this, that boxing has been in a steady decline as far as viewership, but it appears that it still has a lot of action in Vegas.
This leaves me to wonder two things:
#1- Why do people continue to put (mostly) hard earned money up when the outcome of something probably won't even be decided by the skill of the competitors (this holds true for any sport with referees and/or judges, but especially true in boxing because the judges actually score the match, so dirty/incompetent judges can make anything that happens in the ring totally invalid... which is what it sounds like happened last night).
#2- Where does the sport of boxing go from here? Like I said, it has already felt to be in decline for a while now, but when promoters like Arum come out saying stuff like he did, and even the winning fighter unsure of how the decision was reached, when do people who are still fans start asking themselves, "What is the point?" I mean, I guess it is semi-reasonable to shell out $40-60 or whatever the price is for PPV these days just to watch dude beat the crap out of each other all night, but, at least in my opinion, if I watched the Bruins play against a team, and score more goals, and yet a judge awarded the win to the other team... I wouldn't watch hockey anymore. I don't know how much this equates to boxing, but I assume fans have rooting interests so it is at least kind of the same thing, right?
I didn't see it, but I'm guessing Avery Bradley did:
https://twitter.com/Avery_Bradley/status/211701706747154434
[quote name='Stuart Scott's Lazy Eye' timestamp='1339307874' post='4183981']
Noticed that too. Was waiting for Bradley's trainer to tell him he was going to need the KO. When I heard that I was definitely perplexed. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure the first thing I heard Freddie Roach say to Pacquiao when he sat down after round 11 was that he needed a knockout. Completely ass-backwards. Very, very strange. Also odd that Bradley's corner hoisted him up after the match considering it wasn't even close, which seemed to initially confuse the announcers as well.
[/quote]
I think it's unfair to implicate the fighters or the corners in any kind of fix. There are logical reasons for why the trainers would be saying these things to their guys going into the twelfth round.
As for the fight itself, it's the perfect example of why I don't go throwing around the word "robbery" after every fight that has a decision I disagree with. It diminishes the meaning of the word for true robberies like this.
My feeling today is that someone with a lot of money that loves boxing needs to come in and try to buy out the WBA, WBO, IBF, etc. Run the sport as one professional organization with one set of rankings and police it so that shit like this never happens again. I've seen people in the basketball threads here saying, "I love basketball but hate the NBA." I feel the same way about boxing. The sport itself is beautiful at the highest level and provides so much excitement on it's own. The corruption and stupidity of the organizations make me question whether I want to continue to put time and money into it.
My last thought is that I can't imagine how JMM is feeling right about now. He battles Pacquiao even for 36 rounds and only comes away with one draw and then watches Bradley get beaten around the ring and get a split decision. Wouldn't be surprised if he seriously considers just retiring.
Noticed that too. Was waiting for Bradley's trainer to tell him he was going to need the KO. When I heard that I was definitely perplexed. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure the first thing I heard Freddie Roach say to Pacquiao when he sat down after round 11 was that he needed a knockout. Completely ass-backwards. Very, very strange. Also odd that Bradley's corner hoisted him up after the match considering it wasn't even close, which seemed to initially confuse the announcers as well.
[/quote]
I think it's unfair to implicate the fighters or the corners in any kind of fix. There are logical reasons for why the trainers would be saying these things to their guys going into the twelfth round.
As for the fight itself, it's the perfect example of why I don't go throwing around the word "robbery" after every fight that has a decision I disagree with. It diminishes the meaning of the word for true robberies like this.
My feeling today is that someone with a lot of money that loves boxing needs to come in and try to buy out the WBA, WBO, IBF, etc. Run the sport as one professional organization with one set of rankings and police it so that shit like this never happens again. I've seen people in the basketball threads here saying, "I love basketball but hate the NBA." I feel the same way about boxing. The sport itself is beautiful at the highest level and provides so much excitement on it's own. The corruption and stupidity of the organizations make me question whether I want to continue to put time and money into it.
My last thought is that I can't imagine how JMM is feeling right about now. He battles Pacquiao even for 36 rounds and only comes away with one draw and then watches Bradley get beaten around the ring and get a split decision. Wouldn't be surprised if he seriously considers just retiring.
While it was a risk, Manny's power is extremely overrated. He hit Bradley flush all night with that "devastating" straight left and only really rocked him twice.
The best part of this is how Bob Arum, the man who orchestrated this obvious pimping of Manny for more money, will escape blame as people focus on the judges and the sport. Look people. Bob Arum fixed this. Period. He's been milking Manny of every penny for years putting him in there with guys he knows he can beat. And now at the end, he's gonna squeeze another fight out of him.
Considering how much of Manny's money Arum pockets, I would think it would have been a better business decision for him to have signed with Golden Boy 5 years ago. He'd have fought less but would have made more money.
Not exactly an implication of Roach "being in" on the fix or anything of that nature. But I found it odd for the trainer of a guy who was up by a wide margin in a majority of people's minds to tell his fighter he needed a KO in the last round.