Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

Vinho Tinto

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I thought GGG won, but this doesn’t crack the top 100 screwy decisions of my life. Especially since none of the judges had a goofy 118-110 card.
 

Marciano490

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First three rounds were 3-3. Ggg won 5 out of the last 6 and possibly all of them. Ggg dictated the second half of the fight and landed 80% of the effective
Punches
Lol. Was 7-5 if not 8-4 Canelo. Watch the fight without Lampley in your ear.
 

luckiestman

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The greatest Mexican fighter since JCC looks like an athletic Bill Burr. I love this planet right now.
 

thestardawg

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It’s not horrendous but I have it 116-112. I think he won 1-2-4-5-9-10-11-12. I think he completely dominated the last 4 and won at least 3 of the first 6. Golden boy judges were not giving him that fight too though. A shame.
 

luckiestman

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It’s not horrendous but I have it 116-112. I think he won 1-2-4-5-9-10-11-12. I think he completely dominated the last 4 and won at least 3 of the first 6. Golden boy judges were not giving him that fight too though. A shame.
I think I had 7 as a GGG round and you didn’t give him that one? You got a weird card
 

ElUno20

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Canelo again dead after the 7th, hanging on for dear life down the stretch and saved on the cards. Fuck off, boxing.
 

Marciano490

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It is clear that you dislike GGG, so your score isn't exactly unbiased.
It’s also clear I have the most experience in the sport and seem like the only one here who’s been hit and can tell how to score rounds, so let’s call that even. How anyone thinks it’s a sure thing GGG won 11 or 12 is beyond me, but I guess jabs and flat footed arm punches look pretty?

Look, I get everyone loves Golovkin, but he’s done 36 rounds now with top fighters in Jacobs and Canelo and looked very average. Let’s stop calling him an all-time great or rhapsodizing about his power or complaining when he loses or draws.
 

thestardawg

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It’s also clear I have the most experience in the sport and seem like the only one here who’s been hit and can tell how to score rounds, so let’s call that even. How anyone thinks it’s a sure thing GGG won 11 or 12 is beyond me, but I guess jabs and flat footed arm punches look pretty?

Look, I get everyone loves Golovkin, but he’s done 36 rounds now with top fighters in Jacobs and Canelo and looked very average. Let’s stop calling him an all-time great or rhapsodizing about his power or complaining when he loses or draws.
You. You’re the only one who can score rounds because you’re the only one who has been in the ring. I guess folks like Gammons, neyer law etc should put their pens down because they never played mlb. I mean how can they comment on the sport
 

Marciano490

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Right, and when your favorite fighter loser it must be because the sport I bled for and had friends die for is corrupt and not because Canelo came up in weight and walked down some invincible monster HBO marketing created.

Look back in these threads and the ufc ones. I’ve called one fight wrong in the last 5 years, and always put my money where my mouth is. I think I know a little something about the sport and scoring rounds.

Quick - without googling, what’re the bases for scoring rounds in boxing?
 

kenneycb

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Right, and when your favorite fighter loser it must be because the sport I bled for and had friends die for is corrupt and not because Canelo came up in weight and walked down some invincible monster HBO marketing created.

Look back in these threads and the ufc ones. I’ve called one fight wrong in the last 5 years, and always put my money where my mouth is. I think I know a little something about the sport and scoring rounds.

Quick - without googling, what’re the bases for scoring rounds in boxing?
Evoking the play the game card is the epitome of douche. Regardless of context. And you just did it.
 

Marciano490

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Evoking the play the game card is the epitome of douche. Regardless of context. And you just did it.
Where’s calling another dude a douche on the internet rank? Happy to move around a ring with you, help you gain some insight and perspective. In the meantime, I’m gonna go argue with some people about figure skating and gymnastics.
 

djbayko

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Excuse me. 7 instead of 8. You have canelo underwear on again.

Watch the fight without commentary and tell me who won.
I didn't listen to the announcers at all. Look, as someone else already mentioned, it was a close fight in that several rounds could have gone either way. When I look around the Internet, I see roughly half the people complaining about the result and the other half saying they got it right. Seems about right to me. I can see someone disagreeing with the result but it's hardly a screw job.
 

Marciano490

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I didn't listen to the announcers at all. Look, as someone else already mentioned, it was a close fight in that several rounds could have gone either way. When I look around the Internet, I see roughly half the people complaining about the result and the other half saying they got it right. Seems about right.
Let’s at least discuss the fight with the insight of other sports on this board. Why did people have GGG winning? Punch output? Throwing out some round numbers with 0 bona fides or insight then calling people who know the sport much better is bullshit.
 

kenneycb

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Where’s calling another dude a douche on the internet rank? Happy to move around a ring with you, help you gain some insight and perspective. In the meantime, I’m gonna go argue with some people about figure skating and gymnastics.
And that is a stupid perspective to take. This is like Day 1 Fire Joe Morgan mockable takes here.
 

ElUno20

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Let’s at least discuss the fight with the insight of other sports on this board. Why did people have GGG winning? Punch output? Throwing out some round numbers with 0 bona fides or insight then calling people who know the sport much better is bullshit.
I had them splitting the first 6 rounds. The 7th round canelo clearly punted as he gassed, as usual. I then gave ggg 10-12. That's 7-5 for me and maybe even 8-4 as the 9th he looked like garbage too.

My issue with the fight is simple. Just because Canelo started this fight differently than the first, he seemed to win some bullshit "narrative" fight. It still boils down to rounds and he got schooled down the stretch, and outjabbed the whole fight.


But whatever, any who follows the sport knows he just had to make it 12 to get the cards. Im just disgusted. I need a break from boxing
 

Marciano490

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I had them splitting the first 6 rounds. The 7th round canelo clearly punted as he gassed, as usual. I then gave ggg 10-12. That's 7-5 for me and maybe even 8-4 as the 9th he looked like garbage too.

My issue with the fight is simple. Just because Canelo started this fight differently than the first, he seemed to win some bullshit "narrative" fight. It still boils down to rounds and he got schooled down the stretch, and outjabbed the whole fight.


But whatever, any who follows the sport knows he just had to make it 12 to get the cards. Im just disgusted. I need a break from boxing
I don’t go for that Kellerman narrative of stories of fights, but I can see what you’re saying.

Look, it’s always going to be hard to score a fight from tv anyways. I had the tenth as probably the clearest round of the fight for GGG. I gave 11 to Canelo, but it was super close. It’s hard to see whether some of the punches from either fighter landed, but I had Canelo landing some more effective and cleaner punches and controlling the ring after the first minute. 12 I gave pretty clearly to Canelo. GGG was throwing nothing, busy but all arm punches while Canelo was landing hard shots and again seemed to be moving him around.
 

fletcherpost

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https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianmazique/2018/09/16/canelo-vs-ggg-2-results-winner-decision-analysis-punch-stats-and-social-media-reaction/#769eeb612b9f

Stats and score cards in the link above. Fight can definitely be scored either way. I gave it to GGG by 2 rounds. I watched on BT Sport in the UK and all three in the booth gave it to GGG, one of the pundits in the booth was an ex pro.

GGG landed more jabs and more punches overall, Canelo landed more power punches. It was a close fight, no clear winner. I don't think either fighter bossed the ring...and judges can be swayed by ring generalship, which isn't a criterion when scoring amateur boxing, which this fight reminded me of, not in terms of quality but just that we're not expecting a knock down or a KO, so we're looking for scoring blows. In that regard one can favour GGG.

I think it comes down to the power of Canelo Vs the jab of GGG and how one evaluates quality over quantity.

One thing i did think was interesting. Was it the 10th or the 11th round when Canelo walked to his corner and raised his arm slowly, as if to say 'I'm still here'. I felt the intention was 'I've got this' but the actuality was 'I'm still here.' it was a tired, laboured gesture.

People talk about the science of boxing, but there's no science to scoring it. But maybe it wouldn't be so interesting if there was.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Yeah, just when I think boxing is winning me back, this shit happens.

I'm not arguing it wasn't a close fight. But did Canelo enough to take the belts away from a champion?

I can say, with confidence, that GGG definitely wins the first fight and most likely wins tonight's but if both were held on a neutral site.

More experienced and enthusiastic followers of the sport may view the results differently. This casual fan can't help but feel that boxing is still just a notch below figure skating when it comes to bad judging (and in turn, what seems to be deeply rooted corruption in the sport).
 
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kenneycb

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How much you lose tonight buddy? You seem shook. Got those criteria for judging rounds?
Nothing. Forgot it was on until I went to a bar to watch and I generally don’t gamble. I take umbrage with you talking down to and patronizing everyone in the forum (e.g., use of “buddy” abas if you are the only person who could possibly know boxing because you once boxed.
 

Marciano490

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Nothing. Forgot it was on until I went to a bar to watch and I generally don’t gamble. I take umbrage with you talking down to and patronizing everyone in the forum (e.g., use of “buddy” abas if you are the only person who could possibly know boxing because you once boxed.
That’s not what I said at all. I hate people calling the sport corrupt every time they disagree with a decision. It’s insulting to people who have bled or died for the sport. And it’s absurd to call me biased if you’re not going to at least show your math beyond spitting on some round numbers. People think GGG won? Great. Why?

Beyond that, though, you absolutely have to do anything in life to be an expert at it. Maybe that’s not super popular on a sports fan website and not every former pro or amateur automatically knows more than every mere observer, but it makes a massive and irreplaceable difference, especially in a sport like boxing where effective aggression is graded and people who haven’t been in a ring massively overweight jabs and activity.

And don’t call me a douche than be upset I called you buddy. Damn.
 

EvilEmpire

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How much time in the ring do judges usually have before they start their judging careers? Do we know how much the ones from this bout have?
 

kenneycb

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That’s not what I said at all. I hate people calling the sport corrupt every time they disagree with a decision. It’s insulting to people who have bled or died for the sport. And it’s absurd to call me biased if you’re not going to at least show your math beyond spitting on some round numbers. People think GGG won? Great. Why?

Beyond that, though, you absolutely have to do anything in life to be an expert at it. Maybe that’s not super popular on a sports fan website and not every former pro or amateur automatically knows more than every mere observer, but it makes a massive and irreplaceable difference, especially in a sport like boxing where effective aggression is graded and people who haven’t been in a ring massively overweight jabs and activity.

And don’t call me a douche than be upset I called you buddy. Damn.
I’m not upset in the slightest despite your continued projections of me being pissed and losing a bunch of money last night. Experience carries weight. Displaying that experience by being overly confrontational and talking down to people is, well, douchy. I did none of the above in the first paragraph, so sure.
 

Marciano490

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I’m not upset in the slightest despite your continued projections of me being pissed and losing a bunch of money last night. Experience carries weight. Displaying that experience by being overly confrontational and talking down to people is, well, douchy. I did none of the above in the first paragraph, so sure.
Fair enough, but people calling me biased and calling the sport corrupt with no basis is annoying and disrespectful. I care less about being called biased, but don’t go after the sport on a legit decision. Anything from 7-5 GGG to 8-4 Canelo was reasonable.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Fair enough, but people calling me biased and calling the sport corrupt with no basis is annoying and disrespectful. I care less about being called biased, but don’t go after the sport on a legit decision. Anything from 7-5 GGG to 8-4 Canelo was reasonable.
I don't think you're at all biased. I'd take Teddy's words on boxing though.
 

Marciano490

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I’m not saying it never happens and if people want to complain about the 118-110 card, that’s fair game. But you can’t cry wolf every time you disagree with a decision.
 

PrestonBroadus Lives

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I don't think robbery is the right word here. While most media members scored the fight either a draw or in favor of GGG, I think there were clearly enough close rounds that it's reasonable to have Canelo winning the fight. However, it seems like the anger from some people about the decision go beyond the vacuum of this specific fight. Canelo has gotten the benefit of the doubt before in his bouts against Lara and Trout. He's also gotten wonky scorecards that favored him in the Mayweather fight (114-114) and the first GGG fight (118-110). And now, after 24 fairly even rounds against a long-reigning, undefeated champion, he's the guy that gets to walk away with the belts. So, yeah, while I wouldn't call this specific fight a robbery, I think it's understandable to acknowledge the frustration with the growing inevitability of Canelo having an advantage any time one of his fights goes to the scorecards.
 

HurstSoGood

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No surprise. GGG couldn't get a KO, so he lost. Alvarez was never going to lose a decision.

The conversation above reminded me that there are more than one way to win a round.

Speaking of robbery, I just rewatched the Hagler-Leonard fight with the sound off. Sugar won the following categories, which somehow equated into winning rounds for the judges:
Total rope grabs to change directions/escape.
Most miles run.
Most clinches initiated, including via a constant grabbing of the back of Hagler's neck/head. (I didn't realize Sugar was into Muoy Thai. Advantage: Leonard)
Most punches thrown while the Ref (who was usually holding Hagler) tried to break the fighters from clinch.
Least damage given to opponent while supposedly "winning" a round.

I just don't see GGG or Canelo lasting 12 rounds with the Marvelous one.
 

luckiestman

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No surprise. GGG couldn't get a KO, so he lost. Alvarez was never going to lose a decision.

The conversation above reminded me that there are more than one way to win a round.

Speaking of robbery, I just rewatched the Hagler-Leonard fight with the sound off. Sugar won the following categories, which somehow equated into winning rounds for the judges:
Total rope grabs to change directions/escape.
Most miles run.
Most clinches initiated, including via a constant grabbing of the back of Hagler's neck/head. (I didn't realize Sugar was into Muoy Thai. Advantage: Leonard)
Most punches thrown while the Ref (who was usually holding Hagler) tried to break the fighters from clinch.
Least damage given to opponent while supposedly "winning" a round.

I just don't see GGG or Canelo lasting 12 rounds with the Marvelous one.

Hagler would kill these guys. They both have a lot of heart so it would be a prolonged beating.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah, neither is an all-time great, despite HBOs histrionics. I’ve said it before, but Canelo is the dude who comes up at 19 and his .290 with 30/20 hrs/steals and looks like the next Mantle, but is still putting up the same numbers at 28. He just hasn’t improved a lot. Especially defensively.

I did have Lara beating him, but can understand judges not wanting to give a fighter on his bike the win. Still Canelo barely threw in that fight.
 

Marciano490

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Anyone going to the Andrade fight? I remember the 3 of them coming up for sparring. All of them were beasts even as kids.
 

HurstSoGood

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Should we be surprised that Saunders failed a random drug test a month ago (oxylofrene)? How's this going to play now?

Andrade may be fighting someone else for a vacated title. Former champ David Lemieux is PISSED.
http://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/24815845/billy-joe-saunders-fails-drug-test-ahead-title-defense-demetrius-andrade

"Lemieux lashed out on Saunders on social media after hearing about his positive test result.

'U dirty cheating scumbag, ur not only a miserable human being but ur also a dirty cheap cheating rotten p---k #billyjoesaunders u should be banned from boxing,' he wrote."
 

Marciano490

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I thought I read the test was overturned or something.

And Lemieux can save his outrage. He couldn’t land a punch of Sanders; that wasn’t the drugs.
 

ElUno20

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Canelo is a disgrace. What a putrid fight to make. I hope it's on dazn, so i can ignore it like every other fight on dazn
 

Marciano490

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Canelo is a disgrace. What a putrid fight to make. I hope it's on dazn, so i can ignore it like every other fight on dazn
Dude, no. He’s moved up and fought everybody. Let him cash a check while and expand his legacy. Why does Canelo get so much shit for ducking. Look at his resume.
 

ElUno20

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He's not 35. Shit he's not even 30.

And are you really bringing up cashing a check? The dude is the highest paid guy in the sport. These bullshit fights are what i call a tax on fans. No need for them, a complete farce and a money grab. F him and oscar for this BS fight.

I mean fighting lemeiux would've been a joke but they somehow found something worse
 

Marciano490

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He's not 35. Shit he's not even 30.

And are you really bringing up cashing a check? The dude is the highest paid guy in the sport. These bullshit fights are what i call a tax on fans. No need for them, a complete farce and a money grab. F him and oscar for this BS fight.

I mean fighting lemeiux would've been a joke but they somehow found something worse
I dunno man, moving up for a belt is fine by me. It’s part of the legacy. Who cares that Jones beat Ruiz? He went up and got the heavyweight strap.

Plus, Lemieux got blown the fuck out by GGG and Sanders. He doesn’t deserve another shot.
 

ElUno20

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I dunno man, moving up for a belt is fine by me. It’s part of the legacy. Who cares that Jones beat Ruiz? He went up and got the heavyweight strap.

Plus, Lemieux got blown the fuck out by GGG and Sanders. He doesn’t deserve another shot.
But this dude isnt even a real champ. He has a ridiculous made up "super". He was knocked out in the 1st round by the real 168 wba champ, Callum Smith.


This move doesnt suprise me though. At his absolute best, Canelo went life and death with a 35 yr past his prime GGG. I doubt he ever steps in the ring with a real fighter under 30 again.
 

Marciano490

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http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/348759

Who else has a ten fight streak with those kind of names on it? If Canelo wants a scrub, he can have a scrub and a title at a higher weight class. If he never fights one of the Charlos or Spence or Jacobs then we can complain.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Geez, Crawford is defending the welterweight belt in a fight with 2 undefeateds, and nobody is watching? And it's free? Man, boxing is getting killed by UFC/MMA.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Crawford looks fit to go another 12. Benavidez has taken hits and made toughguy faces but hasn’t really threatened.

Props for sticking his face out asking to be hit so he can counter though.