Sons of Peter McNeeley- Boxing Thread

eddiew112 · Apr 1, 2007

I can't wait for the Pavlik-Miranda fight. Having seen them both fight, I would have to give the edge to Pavlik here. He hits almost as hard as Miranda, and he is a much more schooled boxer technically.

I might be there with you on June 9...should be a great card.

Spacemans Bong · Apr 7, 2007

Man against boy tonight. The fight got stopped early but Manfredo looked like a deer in headlights. Good atmosphere though - 35,000 in the Millennium Stadium tonight with the "Waaaales, Waaaales" floating around when Enzo and Calzaghe were fighting.

eddiew112 · Apr 8, 2007

That was a shame. At least Peter got his shot. Now we can all focus on Mayweather-DLH. Predictions anyone?

Heart Pick:
DLH KO 12
Smart Pick:
PBF UD 12

116-112, 115-113, 116-112

Spacemans Bong · Apr 9, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
I've got Floyd by unanimous decision, 117-111 sounds about right. It's just a bad style matchup for Oscar. He's a boxer by nature, and he does his best when he's against a big puncher (Trinidad, Vargas, Mayorga) and he can outquick them. He doesn't like having to be the puncher, which he has to be against Floyd.

The Calzaghe-Manfredo stoppage was quick, but Manfredo's reaction tells me a lot. The immediate look on his face was one of relief, not anger. That tells me he was already mentally beaten and the fight wouldn't have gone much further anyway. Calzaghe's got no more excuses to avoid Kessler, he's the clear #1 contender, time for Joe to get in the ring with him.
It was nice to see Khan live for the first time, even though his opponent didn't want to fight.

Corrales-Clottey was a great fight, with a predictable result. Corrales is just too flawed to hang with legit 147-pounders.

No doubt Calzaghe was going to kick his ass and that it was just a matter of time before Manfredo hit the canvas. The stoppage was premature, but in the end, so what? In 50 years, maybe this'll make it easier for Manfredo to remember the names of his grandkids.

Calzaghe seems to not be concerned about Kessler and wants to fight Jermain Taylor. Comments?

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · Apr 9, 2007

Spacemans Bong said:
No doubt Calzaghe was going to kick his ass and that it was just a matter of time before Manfredo hit the canvas. The stoppage was premature, but in the end, so what? In 50 years, maybe this'll make it easier for Manfredo to remember the names of his grandkids.

Calzaghe seems to not be concerned about Kessler and wants to fight Jermain Taylor. Comments?

That was the single worst premature stoppage I've ever seen. Yeah, sure, Manfredo in all likelihood wasn't going to win the fight or even come close. But who knows? As the old adage goes, "That's why they fight the fights." A million things could have happened. Calzaghe has a long history of hand injuries. What if he hurts his hand and is forced to fight one-handed, giving Manfredo an opening? What if Peter lands a lucky punch, like Oliver McCall against Lennox Lewis? The point is, especially in a world title fight you've got to allow the fight to unfold. It'd be one thing is Manfredo was hurt and unable to defend himself. Then by all means, stop the fight. But he wasn't even near being rocked (there was a body shot that he may have felt, but that's about it) and was actually defending himself quite well.

The fact is -- and I say this actually liking he man as a fighter; I was blown away by his destruction of Jeff Lacy-- Calzaghe has been very carefully protected throughout his career. Apparently (according a members-only article on the MaxBoxing site) this is not the first time he's benefitted from a quick stoppage, including a fight against Byron Mitchell that was literally stopped after Mitchell landed a punch that sent Calzaghe reeling. Calzaghe had already been down once in that fight.

In addition, Calzaghe's opponents have been hand-picked throughout his career. He's always avoided the guys who would be most dangerous to him, and he's fought outside of the UK just twice in 43 fights.

Why does he want to figh Jermaine Taylor while Kessler merits no mention unless someone (e.g. Larry Merchant) forces the issue? Simple. He believes that he can beat Taylor and he probably can. Taylor, for all of his accomplishments, is still a work-in-progress. He's pretty raw and Calzaghe has a great chance of outboxing him over 12 rounds. Kessler on the other hand is a polished fighter who's a hard puncher with a piston-like jab, to boot. Who would you think he'd rather fight?

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · Apr 10, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
Calzaghe actually announced today that he did break his left hand during the fight.

Fantastic. So if the fight had been allowed to continue as it should have been, there is actually a good chance the tide would have turned. I mean, Peter would still have been a long shot to win, but against a guy with a broken hand we would have seen a much more competitive fight. That's just great.

ElUno20 · Apr 28, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
Another great episode of 24/7 this past Sunday. HBO Sports normally does a great job with documentary-style shows, and this one is no different.

Freitas-Diaz is at Foxwoods this weekend, definitely worth attending for those in the area.

24/7 has been great TV. I love the night/day feel you get from both fighters. They go to PR and DLH is training and leading a calm and peaceful life. Next scene cuts to Floyd cursing up a storm and chillin' with Fiddy. I can't wait for this damn fight.

I expect fireworks tonight. Diaz only fights one way and his main flaw, lack of power, is great for fans b/c it makes him really try to pound guys into the ground for 8-10 straight rounds.

ElUno20 · Apr 29, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
Very entertaining fight tonight. It was disappointing to see Freitas quit on his stool (again), but I don't feel cheated, since the fight was action-packed while it lasted and Popo looked like he was going to get KO'd very soon anyway. I would love to see Diaz on HBO again soon, his style really won me over.

The only thing that kinda disappointed me was that Popo's style kept Diaz from being his usual crisp and sharp self. Popo wasn't akward by any stretch but he was a bit of a free swingers last night and it kept Diaz a bit off balanced.

Word is that HBO has put a together a 3 fight card for July that will have Kermit Cintron in the first fight, then Gatti's return in the middle bout, with a main of event of Margarito-Williams. That's about as good of a non-PPV card as you'll get these days. Good to see.

Agreed. But I just saw yesterday that Judah/Cotta is PPV. I guess they figured they'd capitalize on the PR fan base.

inter tatters · Apr 30, 2007

Did any of you guys in the States get a look at David Haye's 1st fight at Heavyweight on Friday Night? He's still the mandatory for Jean Marc Mormeck's WBC Cruiserweight Title (and will probably fight for it in September), but he stepped-up to Heavyweight and crushed Poland's Tomasz Bonin, despite being 14lbs lighter, at 1.45 of the 1st round with 3 Knockdowns.

Haye's nickname 'The Haymaker' was always based on his enormous right-hand at Crusierweight, but everyone wondered whether he could take that power up the Divisions with him. I guess Friday proved that he would? He's only 26 and he has said that if he can beat Mormeck then he will probably make the trip to the Heavys a permanent one, as he struggles to make the weight.

eddiew112 · May 1, 2007

Merchant gone after PBF-DLH

This is a shame. Merchant maybe the slowest speaker in the world, but he's much better than Kellerman. HBO should grab Tessitore.

Hey Griff, I am pretty sure I will be attending the Cotto-Judah fight. You said earlier it will be your first fight, and you are going to be treated to one hell of an atmosphere. It is the night before the Puerto Rican Day Parade. I don't know if Zab has any following from his home in Brooklyn, but I would suspect there will be a couple good bouts in the crowd as well.

Oscar got the vote of confidence from Tito, that means its money in the bank :c070:

. I really, really, really want to see Floyd get knocked out. Even though my head tells me that Floyd is in for an pretty easy UD, Oscar's chance is just large enough to hope.

Montana Fan · May 1, 2007

The only good thing about Larry Merchant is that he is easy to make fun of when he is waxing poetic or stumbling through a question. ("So James in the 4th round..." - "It's Roy Larry, Roy.") Give me Al Bernstein any day of the week.

I've long enjoyed watching the fights but am still pissed that Hagler - Leonard wasn't a 15 rounder. That pussy got everything he wanted to fight Hagler. A short fight, larger ring & fluffier gloves. I think that it would have likely been a classic fight had it been a 15 rounder.

ElUno20 · May 8, 2007

I'm reading some horrible news right now that Chico was killed in a motorcycle accident. I'm praying it's not true but it looks like it is.

dolomite133 · May 8, 2007

Merchant was great because, no matter who he was speaking to, he'd ask critical post-fight questions and offer withering analysis. He never sugarcoated anything, nor did he ever allow fighters to waste time thanking people or promoting sponsors.

I like Kellerman for the most part. His screeching voice can be a little annoying however. I think part of the reason I like Max is that he may be the only person on the planet who's a bigger Pernell Whitaker fan than I am. (BTW, did anyone see that ESPN article proclaiming Oscar as the best fighter of the last 20 years? What a joke. He might not even be Top 5)

ESPN is great at getting sports news to you fast. But by and large, with some notable exceptions like Bob Ley, they are piss poor journalists.

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · May 8, 2007

ElUno20 said:
I'm reading some horrible news right now that Chico was killed in a motorcycle accident. I'm praying it's not true but it looks like it is.

Terrible news. It is true. Diego Corrales was one of boxing's true warriors. Here is an article about his death from the MaxBoxing web site.

JeffFryesStartingJob · May 11, 2007

anyone following along with espn's "top 50" countdown? they put tyson in as the 50th best boxer of all time, and everyone i've talked to about it finds this as some sort of outrage, like he should be in the top 10

JeffFryesStartingJob · May 11, 2007

not to turn this into a tyson thread or anything, but what makes him so overrated? was he not the most dominant fighter at his peak? i can't really blame him that there was no elite competition like some other heavyweights had, but he accomplished some great things at an incredibly young age, even if his biggest wins were spinks and holmes

SuzynWaldmansO-Face · May 11, 2007

Tyson is an extremely difficult boxer to rank for a number of reasons. Say what you will about him being overrated, but I've never seen a guy combine such strength and quickness before in my life. Obviously, he had a distinct disadvantage against the larger guys like Lewis but it's difficult to judge exactly how good he could have been if he hadn't messed up his entire life. I firmly believe that if, in an ideal situation, Cus D'Amato and Teddy Atlas had stayed in Tyson's corner he may have never lost. He was so disciplined and seemed to have a soul at that point in his life. He'd beat people to a bloody pulp, remorsefeully apologize to them, and then praise their efforts. Once he got caught up with Don King and everyone else in that network, he was finished. Everything changed, he instantly became a different person and a different fighter. He's just that fragile mentally and I think the death of D'Amato (who really was his angel in disguise) was the beginning of his end.

Now, ranking him is very difficult. I think he had top 10 talent, but he certainly didn't let that talent shine through for a long enough period of time. If we're ranking careers, it's difficult to rank Tyson in the top 20-25 although I think he should have been higher than 50. It's just so sad to think about because, and I disagree with BGrif here, I think Tyson was something special. I don't think there's ever been any boxer like him (in the ring) in the history of the sport.

BGrif21125 said:
The only thing the prison stint did was delay the shattering of Tyson's perceived "invincibility." If he never committed a rape, he would've been a beaten man by the age of 25 instead of 30 or 31.

I can't say I disagree with this, but I think that's more a result of Tyson buying into his own greatness because the people around him allowed him to. He got lazy. I've watched that Tyson-Douglas fight at least 5 times and Tyson just doesn't look right. Buster fought extremely well that night, but Tyson just wasn't concentrating. The more he trained with King's cronies, the weaker he became as a boxer. If you take the disciplined Tyson from 85 and before and put him in that ring with Douglas, he'll finish him off in 4 rounds or less. Of course, Douglas also had the death of his mother on his mind and was fighting with a chip on his shoulder. The guy always had talent to be one of the best but, as eventually happened with Tyson, he never fought hard enough to get there.

SuzynWaldmansO-Face · May 11, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
Again, Tyson (even in his prime) had a style that allowed him to look spectacular against B or C-level opposition, but that was easily deconstructed by a talented heavyweight with skill and polish.

I agree with you in terms of career accomplishments; he just cannot be ranked top 10 in that category because of the way his life panned out. On the "their primes" argument I disagree. The question with Tyson was, indeed, what would happen when he faces a top-notch fighter with a reach advantage? I think this is where we diverge a bit. I think you're using the Douglas, Lewis, Hollyfield bouts to gauge Tyson's ability but I honestly believe that he was already a different fighter at those points in his life than he was mid-80s.

I know they were against C opponents, but go back and rewatch some of those older fights. Have you ever, in your life, seen someone the size of Tyson with that type of speed? I'm not just talking about his punching ability either, I'm talking about the whole package. He could bob and weave with the best of them, getting as low as a couple of feet to the floor with quick, sharp movements. It was like trying to catch a fly with chopsticks. Like I mentioned above, he lost his way when he lost Atlas and Cus because he was so emotionally flimsy. My point of contention is that, if he had remained focused, that Mike Tyson would have been able to compete with the best of the best. Of your list, I think only Ali, Louis, and Lewis (although I haven't seen much of Dempsey) hold their own against Tyson and I think he's a threat to all of them at any point in the fight.

Good debate, though. Nice to see some boxing fans in these parts.

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · May 11, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
If I'm going to argue that Tyson isn't a Top 10 all-time heavyweight, I guess it's only fair that I provide names to backup my argument.

I think all these heavyweights have to be listed above Tyson in terms of "career accomplishment":
Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Gene Tunney
Rocky Marciano
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
Larry Holmes
George Foreman
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey
Joe Frazier (Tyson's closest comp: short fighter, short arms, early peak, early sharp decline, etc.)

That's 10 right there. (EDIT: actually 11)

Now if you to switch to more of a "who was best in their prime" type of argument....

Under that type of argument, you can't really compare the fighters from the early 20th century, because the eras were just too different. Back then it was normal to see a heavyweight at 180 pounds.

It's so difficult to compare athletes from different eras, and boxers may be the most difficult of all to compare -- and heavyweight boxers may be the most difficult comparisons of all. It's not just the early 20th century heavyweights who were much smaller than today's crop. Rocky Marciano never fought above 190 pounds! That's 10 pounds under today's cruiserweight limit. Joe Louis was bigger, but a typical weight for the "Brown Bomber" was right around 200 in his prime. He fought his most famous fight, the 1938 rematch against Max Schmeling -- at just under 199 (according to BoxRec). And so on.

On that basis alone, I have to think that Tyson -- the "prime" version, which I consider to be 1986-1988 -- would have utterly destroyed any of those fighters from the past. But how can you really compare? For example, no one considers Wladimir Klitschko one of the top heavyweights of all time (yet), but would a 185-pound, 5'10" Rocky Marciano have a prayer against the 245-pound, 6'7" Klitschko? For that matter, would a 6'2" 200-pound Joe Louis? I seriously doubt it.

That's why you can really only judge a heavyweight (in my opinion anyway) by how well he performs against the competition available to him in his time. On that basis, you have to look at the "prime" Tyson as one of the all-time greats. He fought every heavyweight worth mentioning in his era, and wiped out every single one. He never even had a close fight. Looking at it that way, I'd have to say that the "prime" Tyson is THE greatest heavyweight ever. Marciano and even the "prime" Ali (i.e. pre suspension) had close calls. Ali was actually floored by Henry Cooper (I think that's who it was). Though in his "prime" era, Ali was almost as dominant as Tyson and would also hold a pretty strong claim to being "The Greatest." And in fact, by overall career accomplishments, I'd have to rank Ali in my #1 slot.

Of course, judged on his overall career, I wouldn't even put Tyson in the top 50, his fall was that precipitous.

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · May 12, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
So do you think prime Tyson ('87-'88) beats prime Ali (~'64-'67)??
Because they both weighed right around 215 pounds, so in this case we can compare fighters from two different eras.

I think prime Ali runs circles around a prime Tyson.

I stand corrected. I would give the prime Ali the edge -- more than an edge -- over prime Tyson. Don't know what I was thinking there.

I can't think of anyone else who I think would have beaten the mid-'80s Tyson, however.

Naehring11 · May 12, 2007

I am a huge Mike Tyson fan and enjoyed the hell out of watching him fight in his prime. That being said I don't think he is even a top 15 heavyweight of all time.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=474

Like someone said earlier, the only good fighters he beat in the 80's were Holmes and Spinks and he should have considering the circumstances.

He didn't face a great fighter until Holyfield in 96 and then he lost...twice. He next fought a real fighter in Lewis in 2002 and got destroyed.

It may not be fair to hold that against him. He wasn't ducking anybody as far as i can see and because he went to jail he didn't get a chance to fight Holyfield when they were both in their primes. I just can't put him up there with the greats when he made his name fighting hobos.

Naehring11 · May 15, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
A heads-up for those in the Hartford area...

Showtime is airing a card from Hartford on June 9 (same night as the Cotto-Judah HBO PPV fight at MSG)

Main event is Antonio Tarver vs. Elvir Muriqi (the fight that was originally supposed to be on ABC)
Undercard features New Haven's Chad Dawson vs. Jesus Ruiz

Link

Tickets go on sale tomorrow 5/16.

The fights shouldn't be too competitive although I have a huge man crush on Chad Dawson.

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · May 16, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
First, how about we make our picks for this week's fights....

I've got:
Johnson over Griffin by decision
Miranda over Pavlik by TKO
Taylor over Spinks by TKO

I'll go with Pavlik over Miranda, also by stoppage. Miranda can be intimidating, but his problem is, he relies almost solely on intimidation. He fights like a bully. When his opponents fight him backing up, he knocks them out. When they come forward, he has problems -- and I have questions about his chin. The one time in the Green fight when Alan Green came forward on Miranda, he floored Miranda.

Pavlik is a very developed boxer-puncher who, I think, is going to meet Miranda head-on, and who has more power than Alan Green. In fact, his power may be the equal of Miranda's. He's just not the wildman that Miranda is in the ring. I think this will be a wildly exciting slugfest and we may see both guys go down at some point. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Miranda hit the canvas two or three times and for Pavlik to pin him against the ropes and stop him sometime in the later rounds.

I agree with your other picks. And Jermaine Taylor should be embarassed to fighting Corey Spinks. After three straight fights against Hopkins and Wright he deserved a free pass for the Ouma fight. And at least Ouma's a tough little sucker who never stops punching. But now he fights Corey Spinks? You gotta be kidding me. All I can say is, Taylor better blow Spinks out of the water early to retain any credibility at all at this point.

EDIT ON 5/18: Apprently, in yet another bizarre boxing moment, Spinks -- the blown-up welterweight -- has failed to make the middleweight limit, coming in this afternoon at 161. He will get a second chance to shed the last pound.

ElUno20 · May 19, 2007

As with every Taylor fight, I'll take the opponent! Every fight is the same story with JT. This time he's "made the changes, listened to his trainers" and "he won't get tired, he'll keep his hands up." But he still goes back to his old bad habits. Spinks is a very skilled boxer, moreso than JT. Unless Spinks gets tired legs, I don't see JT cutting off the ring well enough to land clean punches. I'll take Spinks by decision.

eddiew112 · May 19, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
First, how about we make our picks for this week's fights....

I've got:
Johnson over Griffin by decision
Miranda over Pavlik by TKO
Taylor over Spinks by TKO

If Jermain can't stop a guy who was TKO'd by Zab at 147, then he's got some real problems offensively. He needs to establish his jab early and come forward against Spinks, if he backs up and wings power shots like he did against Ouma, I'll be very disappointed.

Second thing.... I meant to ask this before Floyd-Oscar and I completely forgot...

Do the amateurs use one standard form of gloves?

The reason I'm asking is that I know a few people here have fought in the amateurs, and I'm curious if you've fought with Reyes and Winning gloves, and if so, just how much of a difference the punches have on you when you get hit with a "puncher's glove" like Reyes.
I assume the amateurs factor in safety and therefore just use gloves with more padding.

Amateurs up to 152 use 10 oz. gloves, while all weights above use 12 oz. gloves. I've fought with Reyes, Winning, Grant, Everlast, and Ringside at one time or another (all amateur versions), and I would say that for amateur gloves the difference is not large enough to notice.

I'm going with Pavlik knocking out Miranda. He is actually a harder puncher and a much better boxer. I sure as hell hope Jermain handles Spinks, but if he fights the way he did against Kassim Ouma, then Spinks could win a SD.

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · May 20, 2007

Well I'm not one to pat myself on the back, but the Pavlik-Miranda fight went almost exactly as I expected it to. Though I'll admit, it was more one-sided than I thought it would be. I was very impressed with Pavlik. Almost as impressed as I was UNimpressed with Taylor. I know that Spinks was basically running all night, as Taylor said, and that he made it difficult for Taylor to look good. But the fact is, as Emanuel Steward was trying to tell his fighter, Spinks couldn't hurt Taylor no matter what. So Taylor needed to show some heart and take a risk. And for some reason he just didn't do it. He fought tentatively and, it seemed to me, without much confidence.

I'd like to see Pavlik fight Taylor, but honestly, I'd be more excited to se him, rather that Taylor, move up to 168 and fight Joe Calzaghe. I think that would be a hell of an action fight -- and I'd slightly favor Pavlik. While he doesn't match Calzaghe's hand speed he does match his high work rate and is much better in the power department.

Pavlik seems like a very marketable fighter. I hope Bob Arum and HBO handle him well. He's the type of guy boxing needs right now.

Vinho Tinto · May 20, 2007

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket said:
Well I'm not one to pat myself on the back, but the Pavlik-Miranda fight went almost exactly as I expected it to.

I was all set to make Miranda my new favorite fighter after the review of his life before the fight. But then the actual fight started, and he got his ass handed to him. He has heart, but Pavlik had skill and power. He's also pretty articulate. A great coming out party for him.

dempsey6068 · May 20, 2007

Amateurs all use the same gloves. In the New Englands, they brought nice new gloves out of the packages. In the Golden Gloves, they just had a bunch of gloves on a table, and you'd be given either reds or blues.

Naehring11 · May 21, 2007

Vinho Tinto said:
I was all set to make Miranda my new favorite fighter after the review of his life before the fight. But then the actual fight started, and he got his ass handed to him. He has heart, but Pavlik had skill and power. He's also pretty articulate. A great coming out party for him.

My fiance felt the same way about Miranda.

Her: I want Miranda to win. He had a hard life.
Me: Come on, Pavlik had a hard life, too.
Her: Did he have to eat cats?

I'm a huge Pavlik fan and I think he would destroy Taylor, which is why the fight won't happen. Taylor will probably fight Calzghe if he is going to fight anyone worthwhile. As Larry Merchant got him to admit after the fight, he'll fight whoever can bring in the most money.

I know it was in the heat of a fight but I feel like Steward may end the relationship with Taylor soon. I've never seen him like that in a fight and he seems incredibly frustrated.

Vinho Tinto · May 21, 2007

Naehring11 said:
I've never seen him like that in a fight and he seems incredibly frustrated.

Who can blame him? Everytime they cut to his corner between rounds, Steward was sending him the same message: He can't hurt you, so take the fight to him. But Taylor was content to pussyfoot around. Very dissapointing performance.

ElUno20 · May 22, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
BTW, Merchant proved again what makes him such a great interviewer, as he refused to let Taylor give non-answers in regard to questions about potential future opponents.

But during the fight it made me realize why he's getting the boot. We all know it's was a dull fight but he goes on and on and on about it. Damn. Be honest but don't go overboard. We get it.

dempsey6068 · May 22, 2007

I have to admit I'm very partial to Taylor. My mother's side of the family is from Little Rock, and my uncle - a prominent high school and college athlete from the area - was part of a consortium that backed Taylor early on. On the one hand, for a young fighter, he's got a pretty impressive resume, with wins over Edouard, Hopkins, Wright, Ouma, and now Spinks. On the other hand, he is frustrating as hell to watch. It's kind of like watching Wily Mo bat, you keep waiting for the home runs, but keep getting the strikeouts. He's got a great jab but doesn't use it enough. He's got quick hands, but rarely puts combinations together. At least he's not following through on his straight right the way he used to. I don't totally blame him for the Spinks fight. Let's not forget he was in against a 2-time champion, not a chump. Honestly, if a fighter goes in with his mind made up that he doesn't want to get hit, he's very hard to catch; especially a fighter as slick as Corey. I think the real problem, and I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it, was the way JT would jump back every time Spinks came in with combinations. Given Corey's lack of power, and the fact that Taylor was catching everything on his gloves and forearms, there was no reason for him to hop back. In doing so, he ensured that when Spinks was done throwing, he was not in position to counter and would therefore have to stalk CS all over again. If Taylor had just stood his ground, he easily could've kept him in range after blocking his punches.

Beyond that, keep in mind that the last thing a fighter wants to do after get hit hard is look bad. Watch Ruiz v. Jones for proof of that. If Ruiz had just kept coming forward and throwing punches and bodying Jones back, he eventually would have worn him down and won the fight, but he didn't like the idea of swinging and missing. Taylor was probably in the same boat.

As for Pavlik, it was a great fight, but I don't think Pavlik is a great fighter. He's solid all-around, but doesn't really have any plus, besides his height, which Taylor can match. He says he hits harder than it would appear on TV, but Miranda, who admittedly has a solid chin, was able to absorb a lot of clean shots without being phased until the later rounds. Pavlik doesn't have Taylor's handspeed, nor are his punches as straight. You can see that he is lazy bringing his jab back, and does so with his elbow flared out. In fact, in the second or third round, Miranda started countering Pavlik because of those flaws, and I thought the fight might be turning. Lampley mentioned many times that Miranda looked lethargic, and had to drop a lot of weight, I wonder if that was part of the reason for Pavlik's impressive showing. I do believe that Pavlik's styled could bring out a great performance from Taylor, but that Calzaghe would represent a greater challenge.

Gene Conleys Plane Ticket · May 22, 2007

BGrif21125 said:
Worst-case scenario, Jermain just isn't nearly the fighter we thought he was, and he's headed for a rude awakening against either Pavlik or Calzaghe.

I still would consider Taylor the favorite against Pavlik, fwiw. And that's the fight I would prefer to see.

I gotta say, I think Kelly Pavlik destroys Jermain Taylor. I doubt Taylor punches as hard as Miranda, but like Miranda, it's pretty clear that he can't fight backing up. But he's extremely reluctant to come forward either. I don't think Taylor's chin has every really been tested, maybe it's better than he seems to think it is. But if not, I could see Pavlik wearing him down and knocking him out inside of three or four rounds.

The sad thing is, Taylor seems to have a lot of natural gifts. But I fear that he's begun believing his own HBO-generated hype. And if the exchanges between him and Steward were any indication, he no longer feels he needs to listen to his trainer, which is the only way he's ever going to figure out how to harness his natural abilities.

It's true that Spinks is the kind of fighter it's hard to look good against (and for the record, as lame as his performance was, I thought Taylor won the fight easily). But while he's a tricky little boxer Cory Spinks is no Floyd Mayweather. All Taylor had to do was move forward throwing punches and he would have stopped Spinks pretty much any time he wanted to. For some reason, he simply refused to do it. Maybe he just doesn't have the killer instinct. Maybe he thinks he's "the champ" so he's entitled to a decision regardless of what he does. Maybe he just isn't good enough. Whatever the reason, he blew it big time. He needed to blast Spinks into the previous century to make any kind of statement and salvage his credibility. He didn't do any of that.

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New Member

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Member

New Member

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