Sixers thread: now with expectations

amarshal2

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 25, 2005
4,591
I said clearly there could be occasions where laying off him works to his advantage. But him having no jump shot is not a strength. Obviously.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
1,839
The Sixers clearly had trouble executing on offense in crunch time on Xmas day, with Morris playing way off BS on top. It allowed them to cut off passes to Embiid and Butler in the post, where both guys had mismatches. Simmons wasn't able to drive and make anything happen either, despite the cushion from Morris.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
2,158
Saint Paul, MN
I do love that the 22 footer Simmons threw up, and made with the shot clock expiring, was the longest shot he has made in his career. Amazing
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
I do love that the 22 footer Simmons threw up, and made with the shot clock expiring, was the longest shot he has made in his career. Amazing
It reminded me of how Boston Rondo would regularly make 3’s when up against the shot clock where he had to trust his repetitions and muscle memory rather than have to think about mechanics and aim a shot. The confidence Rondo now has in taking and making 3’s is where I expect Simmons to be in 5-6 years or so. Trusting your work and relying on muscle memory is not an easy mental block to get past for many players when it isn’t natural movement.
 
Last edited:

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
3,458
Is there anything to the sixers not being able to win these big tentpole regular season games? Is it telling in any way?

I'm not trolling, just legitimately curious. In addition to losing to the Cs, I think the only time they beat the raptors this year KL didn't play.

It's a similar question/or doubt i have about the chiefs who've lost every "big" primetime type of game this year.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
Is there anything to the sixers not being able to win these big tentpole regular season games? Is it telling in any way?

I'm not trolling, just legitimately curious. In addition to losing to the Cs, I think the only time they beat the raptors this year KL didn't play.

It's a similar question/or doubt i have about the chiefs who've lost every "big" primetime type of game this year.
The Sixers have really had a favorable schedule thus far. The only WC team they have played on the road was a loss @San Antonio. Aside from the Spurs they faced Phoenix, Memphis, New Orleans, the Clippers, and Utah (when they were in the midst of their brutal stretch) all at home. They’ve lost to Milwaukee and us while splitting with Toronto.......

At this point in time I have them as one of many flawed EC teams who has no depth and is very predictable to defend down the stretch of games. So maybe they aren’t winning these games because they simply aren’t that good of a team to do so and the best teams are able to exploit their apparent flaws. That’s my take on them right now.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
34,106
Is it time to admit the 76ers, with their three All-Stars, just don't work?

But then the fourth quarter hit, and Embiid and the Sixers came crashing down to Kyrie's flat earth. The Celtics turned up the pressure, ignored Simmons and sagged off Butler just so, finding more agreeable spots to trap Embiid, suffocating him and forcing the 76ers to cough up nineteen turnovers and a deluge of late-clock shots.
. How is it that the Sixers, who headed the most meticulously planned rebuild in NBA history, look like an accident?
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
It was working fine for the Sixers when they put up 89 in the first 3 quarters. Their bench struggled scoring over the first 6+ minutes of the 4th quarter and the starters faced the same fate down the stretch. I give more credit to our defense which really stepped up down the stretch and made every look a difficult one than the Sixers “not working”.......I mean they really aren’t supposed to waltz through the EC with their abomination of role players? I’m ready to start quoting Dennis Green as I slam the podium on this one.

It’s so crazy.....everyone was so patient when they were trying to not compete for wins and now that they ARE competing at the top of the conference people want to rip them apart. There should be some type of psychological study for this. LOL
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
7,590
How is it that the Sixers, who headed the most meticulously planned rebuild in NBA history, look like an accident?
Because you fired the architect halfway through, you assholes! It looks like a team designed by committee because it was designed by committee.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
It’s so crazy.....everyone was so patient when they were trying to not compete for wins and now that they ARE competing at the top of the conference people want to rip them apart. There should be some type of psychological study for this. LOL
People are worried because they blew through most of their assets, have no role players, and (obviously) can't consider moving on from this core because Embiid is too damn good. On the plus side, they have decent space to add role players this summer--this is their last chance really, unless the Miami 2021 pick gets juicy.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
People are worried because they blew through most of their assets, have no role players, and (obviously) can't consider moving on from this core because Embiid is too damn good. On the plus side, they have decent space to add role players this summer--this is their last chance really, unless the Miami 2021 pick gets juicy.
They made one enormous blunder in trading up for Fultz but that was about it. They got a real good player in Butler so those assets were utilized for their purpose of acquiring this level of player and they will have cap space to add another real good player this summer.

I just find the “sky is falling” Sixers fans to be hilarious when the spot they are in is pretty much a top tier scenario when this process began by scoring Embiid, Simmons, and using other assets for Butler while still retaining cap space to add to this core.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
34,106
I just find the “sky is falling” Sixers fans to be hilarious when the spot they are in is pretty much a top tier scenario when this process began by scoring Embiid, Simmons, and using other assets for Butler while still retaining cap space to add to this core.
It's not a Sixer fan writing that article, it's an NBA reporter asking the questions.

Do you disagree that putting 3 great players together can work a lot of the time, but that there could be fundamental weaknesses that can be exposed? You seemed to think that the Celtic had a bunch of really good players that don't complement each other. Why is it hilarious to think another team might have the same issues?
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
It's not a Sixer fan writing that article, it's an NBA reporter asking the questions.

Do you disagree that putting 3 great players together can work a lot of the time, but that there could be fundamental weaknesses that can be exposed? You seemed to think that the Celtic had a bunch of really good players that don't complement each other. Why is it hilarious to think another team might have the same issues?
I wasn’t referring to you personally only to the author of the piece.

In response to your question..... they are still kids and aren’t supposed to be winning the EC yet while also suffering from a significant talent deficiency past their top 3 to 5 players. They aren’t at all like the Celtics who have 8-9 starters in their rotation who don’t all fit well.....the Sixers problem is not having a single bench player who should be in a playoff teams shortened rotation.

We saw this lack of talent front and center last night without a guard on their roster who is a good matchup against a quick scoring 1 forcing Butler onto a mismatch which also weakened their defense by not allowing him to defend a scoring wing.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
6,230
Santa Monica
They made one enormous blunder in trading up for Fultz but that was about it. They got a real good player in Butler so those assets were utilized for their purpose of acquiring this level of player and they will have cap space to add another real good player this summer.

I just find the “sky is falling” Sixers fans to be hilarious when the spot they are in is pretty much a top tier scenario when this process began by scoring Embiid, Simmons, and using other assets for Butler while still retaining cap space to add to this core.
Agreed, they are in fantastic shape. Future draft picks, cap room, 3 top 25 players, good coach. BUT they may also feel snake bit by high draft picks: ROY Carter-Williams, Okafor and Noel not being part of the final process.
 

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
Worse still is that they have a glaring need for a back up center, despite all the bigs drafted. Pretty ridiculous.

I'm with HRB, the negativity is ridiculous. Even I was annoyed at Simmons early but it increasingly looks like playing with Fultz hurt him. Since he's been shut down there's been some improvements

Overall he just seems to have focused on different things, he's up to 60%+ TS. This is 5% improvment and means he's really improved efficiency.
Turnovers are down post Fultz too.
There's been a clear improvement in the post and finishing. He's also improved his driving ability.

This is interesting because there aren't that many players that can cover Simmons on a drive AND defend being taken to the post. It happens that the Celtics are one of the only teams that has multiple players that fit this.

Also that long turnaround jumper he had on Christmas is not entirely a fluke, he's made one of these shots in his last 3 games. Commentary says he feels more confident in THAT than a normal off the dribble pull up, which seems insane and I'm a little (to say the least) dubious. But if he keeps taking it and it keeps falling then maybe it is a thing. It's about sixers standard to have a guy who can make a trick shot but not a jumper.
 

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
3,755
Worse still is that they have a glaring need for a back up center, despite all the bigs drafted. Pretty ridiculous.

I'm with HRB, the negativity is ridiculous. Even I was annoyed at Simmons early but it increasingly looks like playing with Fultz hurt him. Since he's been shut down there's been some improvements

Overall he just seems to have focused on different things, he's up to 60%+ TS. This is 5% improvment and means he's really improved efficiency.
Turnovers are down post Fultz too.
There's been a clear improvement in the post and finishing. He's also improved his driving ability.

This is interesting because there aren't that many players that can cover Simmons on a drive AND defend being taken to the post. It happens that the Celtics are one of the only teams that has multiple players that fit this.

Also that long turnaround jumper he had on Christmas is not entirely a fluke, he's made one of these shots in his last 3 games. Commentary says he feels more confident in THAT than a normal off the dribble pull up, which seems insane and I'm a little (to say the least) dubious. But if he keeps taking it and it keeps falling then maybe it is a thing. It's about sixers standard to have a guy who can make a trick shot but not a jumper.
At this point, Brown should just force him to take a set number of open jumpers per game. Bench him is he’s passing too many up. It’s so important to his ceiling outcome, and to the Sixers future, that they should be glad to sacrifice a couple of regular season games in order to start the building process towards getting him comfortable shooting and at least putting it in opposing teams’ minds. If he’s hitting them regularly in practice, the muscle memory is there, it just needs to be put to use in a new context. Simmons with a respectable jumper is a borderline top five player, but he’s not gonna get there without game reps, and there’s no time like the present for that.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
38,263
deep inside Guido territory

Philadelphia 76ers All-Star Jimmy Butler has aggressively challenged coach Brett Brown on his role in the offense, complicating an already tenuous chemistry among the team's Big 3 hierarchy, league sources told ESPN.

Butler has been vocal in his contesting of Brown and his system, including a recent film session in Portland that some witnesses considered "disrespectful" and beyond normal player-coach discourse.

Brown has told people within the organization that he had no issues with that exchange and considered it within the confines of the relationship that he's developed with Butler, sources said.

Brown had already spent significant time working on the sometimes-tenuous relationship between Simmons and Embiid, and those challenges have been compounded by the urgency to introduce Butler into the Sixers dynamic.

Butler has expressed a desire to teammates that he hopes to play in more traditional pick-and-roll and isolation sets, rather than trying to find his place in the Sixers free-flowing offense, league sources said. In searching for answers, Butler has met privately with Brown and his coaching staff, as well as general manager Elton Brand, league sources told ESPN.

Butler, 29, can become a free agent this summer, and the organization's preference has been to re-sign him to an extension. Rival teams believe that Butler will eventually decide to take meetings with interested suitors in July. Butler's preference has been to sign a more lucrative deal to remain with the Sixers, but it's clear that there are issues to be worked out before that comfort level fully exists.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
34,106
Brown had already spent significant time working on the sometimes-tenuous relationship between Simmons and Embiid, and those challenges have been compounded by the urgency to introduce Butler into the Sixers dynamic..
Wait, did we know this was a thing?
 

Big John

lurker
Dec 9, 2016
1,554
I am so glad that Ainge didn't trade for Butler. The sad thing is, that if it comes down to Butler or Brett Brown, it's Brown who will get the axe.
 
Last edited:

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
3,755
Jimmy doesn’t like misunderstandings. Jimmy and misunderstanding kinda clash. JIMMY HOLDS GRUDGES!

(seriously, that Seinfeld episode is a goldmine for the royal pain in the ass that is Jimmy Butler)
 

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
3,755
I am, however, completely here for the Sixers creating a castrato Embiid to play a Capela to Jimmy’s Harden.
 

johnmd20

literally like ebola
Lifetime Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
37,790
New York City
Jimmy doesn’t like misunderstandings. Jimmy and misunderstanding kinda clash. JIMMY HOLDS GRUDGES!

(seriously, that Seinfeld episode is a goldmine for the royal pain in the ass that is Jimmy Butler)
Jimmy's new in town. Jimmy dislikes Brett Brown.
 

cheech13

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 5, 2006
1,170
The way Butler is doing this will kill his FA viability and his future paychecks.
He sounds like a pain in the ass. He's still getting a max contract from someone.

Also on that note, if Butler has a problem with Brown, he'll get the ax before Jimmy does. This is the way the NBA works.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
31,086
He sounds like a pain in the ass. He's still getting a max contract from someone.

Also on that note, if Butler has a problem with Brown, he'll get the ax before Jimmy does. This is the way the NBA works.
I dunno. Brown vs. Embiid would likely mean the end of Brown but Butler isn't the alpha dog on this Sixers team. Is there an example of a head coach getting canned due to a dispute with a secondary star?
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
He sounds like a pain in the ass. He's still getting a max contract from someone.

Also on that note, if Butler has a problem with Brown, he'll get the ax before Jimmy does. This is the way the NBA works.
Precisely on all of the above.
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
832
I dunno. Brown vs. Embiid would likely mean the end of Brown but Butler isn't the alpha dog on this Sixers team. Is there an example of a head coach getting canned due to a dispute with a secondary star?
Long time ago, but Magic Johnson and Paul Westhead seems like the closest comp.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
He sounds like a pain in the ass. He's still getting a max contract from someone.

Also on that note, if Butler has a problem with Brown, he'll get the ax before Jimmy does. This is the way the NBA works.
Unless Embiid gets fed up with Butler and sides with Brown. But he may decide to run Simmons out of town instead.

Good times in Philly!
 

m0ckduck

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
832
It's cute when people refer to Magic as the secondary star there. Always makes me smile.
Well, he certainly was second banana back in 1980-81. Kareem was first team All NBA that year. Magic didn’t make first or second team.

Edit: I forgot that Magic hurt his knee in 80-81, so not entirely fair to wave around his omission from All NBA team for that season. But Kareem was coming off something like 11 All NBA appearances in 12 years, whereas Magic hadn’t made it either of his first two years at the time of his feud with Westhead.
 
Last edited:

LondonSox

Robert the Deuce
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,956
North Bay California
You guys jump at clickbait nonsense as intended I guess.

Brown said he didn't think it was disrespectful, that he welcomes players challenging and bringing up issues and he nor Jimmy have any problems with the discussion.
Embiid and Simmons have also spoken about this stuff being a non issue.

But click baiting Pompey, again, spins the story into a big deal.

This is like the " sixers want to or should trade Simmons"

These stories are bullshit media clickbait, just stop getting so excited about nonsense and encouraging them to do more.

The butler is a cancer stories have been on standby since the trade.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
7,557
Besides, it's not like the Butler is a clubhouse cancer stories just magically appeared after he got traded to Philly, they've been around for years.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
449
Brooklyn by way of Orono
You guys jump at clickbait nonsense as intended I guess.

Brown said he didn't think it was disrespectful, that he welcomes players challenging and bringing up

These stories are bullshit media clickbait, just stop getting so excited about nonsense and encouraging them to do more..
What should Brown have said? “Butler made me a sad Panda.” Of course he said it’s fine...

Maybe Butler isn’t a complete asshat and this is all just fake news, but I don’t think so.

And yes, he still gets full max but only the Knicks and Lakers fans will tolerate a loud mouth selfish gunner on a shit team

/rant
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
What should Brown have said? “Butler made me a sad Panda.” Of course he said it’s fine...

Maybe Butler isn’t a complete asshat and this is all just fake news, but I don’t think so.

And yes, he still gets full max but only the Knicks and Lakers fans will tolerate a loud mouth selfish gunner on a shit team

/rant
Butler has led his team in FGA on only one of the NBA teams he's played on and none of his three college seasons while having the 3rd most attempts in half of those seasons. I don't know how much Butler you watch but he certainly isn't a "selfish gunner" on the court.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
449
Brooklyn by way of Orono
Butler has led his team in FGA on only one of the NBA teams he's played on and none of his three college seasons while having the 3rd most attempts in half of those seasons. I don't know how much Butler you watch but he certainly isn't a "selfish gunner" on the court.
Damn you and your facts HRB...

I think he has displayed phenomenally selfish (or is it self-centered, I’m not sure) behavior at multiple stops now on the court, in the media and in practice. At least he’s consistent.

I also think he wants his shots the way he wants them, and not in the flow of the offense...which i agree isn’t gunning in the ‘give me the ball and I’m launching it’ sense. He’s also a defensive contributor, which goes against my gunner claims.

Gunner claim retracted