Shohei Ohtani’s attorneys accuse interpreter of ‘massive theft’ tied to alleged gambling

[Average Reds]

Perhaps I misunderstand the sequence of events here. I thought the first story was the interpreter saying that his good buddy Shohei covered his debts. Because he’s swell and all.

Then, as I understood some to be saying here, Ohtahni’s team thought “oh no, that explanation means Shohei committed a crime, we gotta have him lie and say it was theft”.

I guess I’m challenging that his team changed the story to avoid one crime, and had him commit another crime to cover that up (lying about it being theft).

I understand how one thing followed another, I’m just disputing the suggested motivation. Seems like if the first story was true they’d just stick with it, because changing it brings another crime into the mix.

First, apologies for the untimely reply, but I want to address the bolded section, because, as others pointed out, it’s only true if he did, in fact, falsely report a crime to a law enforcement agency.

As the ESPN story in post #599 points out, Ohtani’s representatives have pointedly refused to confirm that he has even filed a criminal complaint. And until we get confirmation that he has, I’m not sure it’s wise to make that assumption.

The farther we get into this, the more it looks like Ohtani’s team made a hash of the initial story, and have decided to manage it by putting out a cover story that they know cannot be challenged, because the interpreter is beyond the reach of US law enforcement. And so long as this remains the case, the potential legal damage to Ohtani is minimal.

Again, I’m not making any judgement about Ohtani’s conduct in terms of whether he placed any bets. If I had to speculate, I’d say that the original story (paying off the gambling debt for his friend) was probably true, which makes him a sympathetic figure in my eyes. But, as we often hear, the coverup is always worse than the crime.

Unless we learn that these were his gambling debts, I don’t see Ohtani being suspended by MLB. However, unless the story he’s pushing now is the truth, I think his image is going to take a hit.

 

[8slim]

First, apologies for the untimely reply, but I want to address the bolded section, because, as others pointed out, it’s only true if he did, in fact, falsely report a crime to a law enforcement agency.

As the ESPN story in post #599 points out, Ohtani’s representatives have pointedly refused to confirm that he has even filed a criminal complaint. And until we get confirmation that he has, I’m not sure it’s wise to make that assumption.

The farther we get into this, the more it looks like Ohtani’s team made a hash of the initial story, and have decided to manage it by putting out a cover story that they know cannot be challenged, because the interpreter is beyond the reach of US law enforcement. And so long as this remains the case, the potential legal damage to Ohtani is minimal.

Again, I’m not making any judgement about Ohtani’s conduct in terms of whether he placed any bets. If I had to speculate, I’d say that the original story (paying off the gambling debt for his friend) was probably true, which makes him a sympathetic figure in my eyes. But, as we often hear, the coverup is always worse than the crime.

Unless we learn that these were his gambling debts, I don’t see Ohtani being suspended by MLB. However, unless the story he’s pushing now is the truth, I think his image is going to take a hit.

I read that ESPN story and that Ohtahni's team won't confirm what law enforcement agency is involved is VERY suspicious. To be clear, I'm not digging in and I don't know anything.

I don't have any passionate feeling about the ultimate outcome. I think Ohtahni is likely the greatest ballplayer who's ever lived, so I'd be disappointed if he got suspended, but life would go on obviously.

I assumed that since this matter was originally exopsed due to a federal investigation into the illegal bookie, that Ohtahni's wire transfers were going to be scrutinized by law enforcement. Hence my comments about his lawyers having him lie his way into another crime.

But obviously if that's not the case, then I guess they can have him lie to his heart's content.

 

[beautokyo]

I know spring training just ended pretty much but Ohtani hasn't gotten a hit for 3 days....0-6. I think this adventure is going to take a toll on him mentally and in the batters box.

 

[YTF]

I think the your second sentence is part of the answer. I don't know anything about Ohtani's personality but forbidden fruit, open any door but this one, and all that.

I've no idea what Ohtani may or may not have done concerning gambling, but I think it's very short sighted on the part of those saying there's no way he bet on baseball. It's the sport that he knows better than all others. He has first hand knowledge of things your average sports bettor doesn’t. Granted if he is betting on baseball he seems to suck at it, or perhaps his alleged debts would be bigger without betting on baseball. Maybe a guy like him digs a hole and decides to see that forbidden fruit as a way out.

 

[NomarsFool]

My hypothesis is that at some point, Ohtani must have been wiling to go along with the storyline that Ohtani made the payments to the bookie to bail out Ippei. I just can't fathom the idea that Ippei made that statement if the truth was that Ippei stole the money (with one caveat - coming later). Something then changed - either Ohtani then found out that making the payments was still illegal / could get him in trouble and/or the amount of the payments was more than Ohtani was aware of. At that point, seems like Ohtani said to himself "Screw that guy" and threw him under the bus.

The one caveat I would say is that, potentially, Ippei did steal the money but he has Ohtani by the balls because Ohtani was actually betting and figured that Ohtani would never accuse Ippei of stealing because Ohtani could lose $700 million. Sort of a mutually assured destruction sort of thing. "Yes, I stole $4.5 million from you - consider it the price of me not ratting you out for throwing baseball games".

 

[lexrageorge]

My hypothesis is that at some point, Ohtani must have been wiling to go along with the storyline that Ohtani made the payments to the bookie to bail out Ippei. I just can't fathom the idea that Ippei made that statement if the truth was that Ippei stole the money (with one caveat - coming later). Something then changed - either Ohtani then found out that making the payments was still illegal / could get him in trouble and/or the amount of the payments was more than Ohtani was aware of. At that point, seems like Ohtani said to himself "Screw that guy" and threw him under the bus.

The one caveat I would say is that, potentially, Ippei did steal the money but he has Ohtani by the balls because Ohtani was actually betting and figured that Ohtani would never accuse Ippei of stealing because Ohtani could lose $700 million. Sort of a mutually assured destruction sort of thing. "Yes, I stole $4.5 million from you - consider it the price of me not ratting you out for throwing baseball games".

It's important to differentiate "betting" and "betting on baseball games". The former may or may not result in any sanction from MLB, although a lengthly suspension could be in the offering if Ohtani was trying to conceal sports (non-baseball) betting.

If he was betting on baseball, he will be permanently banned.

 

[NomarsFool]

It's important to differentiate "betting" and "betting on baseball games". The former may or may not result in any sanction from MLB, although a lengthly suspension could be in the offering if Ohtani was trying to conceal sports (non-baseball) betting.

If he was betting on baseball, he will be permanently banned.

The second gets you banned for life, but the first - I would argue - would still get him in a lot of trouble and have financial consequences worth more than $4.5 million.

 

[nvalvo]

My hypothesis is that at some point, Ohtani must have been wiling to go along with the storyline that Ohtani made the payments to the bookie to bail out Ippei. I just can't fathom the idea that Ippei made that statement if the truth was that Ippei stole the money (with one caveat - coming later). Something then changed - either Ohtani then found out that making the payments was still illegal / could get him in trouble and/or the amount of the payments was more than Ohtani was aware of. At that point, seems like Ohtani said to himself "Screw that guy" and threw him under the bus.

The one caveat I would say is that, potentially, Ippei did steal the money but he has Ohtani by the balls because Ohtani was actually betting and figured that Ohtani would never accuse Ippei of stealing because Ohtani could lose $700 million. Sort of a mutually assured destruction sort of thing. "Yes, I stole $4.5 million from you - consider it the price of me not ratting you out for throwing baseball games".

I might have missed something, but I just listened to a recent Effectively Wild podcast on this topic and it contained a nugget I hadn’t seen in this thread that (if true) made a bunch of this make way more sense to me.

That nugget was that the narrative about how Ohtani transferred the money to cover for his friend was assembled by a crisis PR person hired *that day* on the basis of communications *with Mizuhara.* They’re in Korea, probably traveling with a skeleton crew; there’s a time difference; Ohtani was getting ready for opening day; the crisis PR person is presumably working from the States. By the time the more responsible parties get up to speed and everyone’s on the same page, they’ve already taped this insane interview.

So the initial story from Ohtani’s camp may *not* have substantively been from Ohtani at all.

 

[CarolinaBeerGuy]

I might have missed something, but I just listened to a recent Effectively Wild podcast on this topic and it contained a nugget I hadn’t seen in this thread that (if true) made a bunch of this make way more sense to me.

That nugget was that the narrative about how Ohtani transferred the money to cover for his friend was assembled by a crisis PR person hired *that day* on the basis of communications *with Mizuhara.* They’re in Korea, probably traveling with a skeleton crew; there’s a time difference; Ohtani was getting ready for opening day; the crisis PR person is presumably working from the States. By the time the more responsible parties get up to speed and everyone’s on the same page, they’ve already taped this insane interview.

So the initial story from Ohtani’s camp may *not* have substantively been from Ohtani at all.

That is effectively wild.

 

[NomarsFool]

I might have missed something, but I just listened to a recent Effectively Wild podcast on this topic and it contained a nugget I hadn’t seen in this thread that (if true) made a bunch of this make way more sense to me.

That nugget was that the narrative about how Ohtani transferred the money to cover for his friend was assembled by a crisis PR person hired *that day* on the basis of communications *with Mizuhara.* They’re in Korea, probably traveling with a skeleton crew; there’s a time difference; Ohtani was getting ready for opening day; the crisis PR person is presumably working from the States. By the time the more responsible parties get up to speed and everyone’s on the same page, they’ve already taped this insane interview.

So the initial story from Ohtani’s camp may *not* have substantively been from Ohtani at all.

Maybe so, but then....wait a day? People screw up, and maybe that's what happened. But, seems like there were a bunch of unforced errors all over the place here.

 

[nvalvo]

Maybe so, but then....wait a day? People screw up, and maybe that's what happened. But, seems like there were a bunch of unforced errors all over the place here.

I agree with you that that’s what the crisis PR person *should* have done. But if this report is true, it is not what he or she *did.*

 

[Average Reds]

This story is now being pushed by a number of outlets, and I absolutely get the logic: allowing the interpreter to be the conduit of information about his own wrongdoing - and the accepting that information uncritically - is an unacceptable conflict of interest. So, yeah, if that’s what happened here, it’s an abject failure on the part of the crisis communications team hired by Ohtani.

The problem for me is that for the story to be true, it still requires Ohtani to be unaware that millions of dollars were wired out of his account to an illegal bookmaker. As someone who has wired four and five-figure amounts on several occasions, I have a very hard time believing that is possible. At the very least, it requires an explanation.

In the words of Lewis Carroll, this case is becoming “curiouser and curiouser.”

 

[NomarsFool]

It doesn’t surprise me that much that Ippei could have had access to his accounts. He wasn’t just an interpreter but more like his personal assistant.

 

[YTF]

It doesn’t surprise me that much that Ippei could have had access to his accounts. He wasn’t just an interpreter but more like his personal assistant.

Sure, but it only makes sense to me when a guy who is worth tens of millions of dollars or more gives his personal assistant access to a single account that that is sufficient enough to take care of personal assistant type business.

 

[NomarsFool]

I guess I could imagine a scenario where Ohtani is asking him to log in and move money from here to there or pay this or that bill. Or the interpreter was around enough to learn his passwords or whatever.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I might have missed something, but I just listened to a recent Effectively Wild podcast on this topic and it contained a nugget I hadn’t seen in this thread that (if true) made a bunch of this make way more sense to me.

That nugget was that the narrative about how Ohtani transferred the money to cover for his friend was assembled by a crisis PR person hired *that day* on the basis of communications *with Mizuhara.* They’re in Korea, probably traveling with a skeleton crew; there’s a time difference; Ohtani was getting ready for opening day; the crisis PR person is presumably working from the States. By the time the more responsible parties get up to speed and everyone’s on the same page, they’ve already taped this insane interview.

So the initial story from Ohtani’s camp may *not* have substantively been from Ohtani at all.

Possible but difficult: https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39784809/dodgers-shohei-ohtani-mizuhara-theft-line

The main thing to keep in mind is that there would have to be multiple extended conversations due to the Pete Rose thing, the lifetime ban higamadoozit, and possibly forfeiting $700M in change. You know, the routine and minor stuff you wing and don't bother to double-check facts on.

So there's absolutely no way the Agent and the Crisis Person would not want to get this completely right. At some point prior to the game the Dodgers ownership and management were folded in as well, and they seemed OK with the initial story - enough to clear Mizuhara to make a statement to the team about illegal gambling and Ohtani's role in it.

You can walk through the timeline.

So in all those hours, nobody texted Ohtani directly (not his agent, not an attorney, not anyone to say they were reviewing his finances on behalf of the agent?) Nobody spoke to him? Nobody looked. . .vaguely worried around him? And if Ohtani wasn't completely black-boxed (if there was a facetime or the phone was on speaker in his presence or anything of the sort) Ohtani somehow didn't think anything at all was wrong? The words "commissioner" "Pete Rose" "complete fucking fiasco" "police" "gambling" "bookie" and "prison" meant nothing to him after 6 years in the US? There were no other dual-langauge speakers present?

Conversely, the crisis team didn't have a single yellow flag from Mizuhara's behavior or answers, even though they knew Mizuhara was an interested party? Like when they asked for the wires to be double checked and confirmed by Ohtani, the financial information came tripping off Mizuhara's tongue? (Or maybe he always had access to the account? Who knows?)

So then, magically at the post-team meeting conference Ohtani clues in? And he's suddenly surrounded by other Japanese speaking people who are briefed on the particulars (before the ESPN story broke?) cleared to discuss this with him?

And then an hour and a half later the Crisis person walks it all back - but gives no other details? Not a one?

It's possible.

I mean it's actually possible - it wouldn't be the stupidest thing I was ever privy to. But there are so many failure points there that if I was investigating, I'd take a very very close look at things and would want to see corroboration. Because it's almost just as stupidly likely Ohtani was in on the original story and somebody folded in later in the process realized how very bad it was and hit the panic button.

​

 

[8slim]

This story is now being pushed by a number of outlets, and I absolutely get the logic: allowing the interpreter to be the conduit of information about his own wrongdoing - and the accepting that information uncritically - is an unacceptable conflict of interest. So, yeah, if that’s what happened here, it’s an abject failure on the part of the crisis communications team hired by Ohtani.

The problem for me is that for the story to be true, it still requires Ohtani to be unaware that millions of dollars were wired out of his account to an illegal bookmaker. As someone who has wired four and five-figure amounts on several occasions, I have a very hard time believing that is possible. At the very least, it requires an explanation.

In the words of Lewis Carroll, this case is becoming “curiouser and curiouser.”

On today's Talkin' Baseball podcast they mentioned that a few players who played overseas, and a few interpreters, reached out and explained that an interpreter having access to a player's bank account is very common.

One player who I believe played in Japan said that his interpreter was his lifeline over there. He relied on the guy completely to navigate his day-to-day. And an interpreter said he had access to player's bank accounts, etc. because one needed to know the language to navigate that process. Said he handled paying for monthly bills and all that good stuff on behalf of the player.

So, from that it seemed quite possible that Ohtahni might have an "American bank account", for lack of a better phrase, that Mizuhara managed.

Again, Ohtahni could be peddling BS for all I know. But it was helpful to get that perspective from players and interpreters who have lived the experience.

 

[Average Reds]

I can absolutely see that for routine expenses. I’d be astonished if that access extended to wiring a total of $4.5 million without the account holder being aware it was happening.

Not to belabor the point, but banks have processes and controls that are *supposed to* ensure that an unauthorized wire(s) of that size is impossible. And yet …

Look, if that actually happened, I’ll be glad, in an odd sort of way. However, I’m not just going to take his word for it.

 

[The Gray Eagle]

The language barrier is the problem though-- if the bank sends a text to Ohtani's phone in English, he's not going to read it, he's going to have his interpreter tell him what it says. "Oh they are just saying thanks to you for being such a great customer, nothing else." His interpreter might even have a phone that he does Ohtani's business on for him, all logged in to Ohtani's accounts.

Also, routine expenses for a guy like this would be huge. "Book the private back room of that high end restaurant that I like for Wednesday when we are in New York. Also, book me a helicopter flight to get to a meeting in the Hamptons for the next morning" or whatever. And then the interpreter deals with all of that, including paying for it through Ohtani's accounts, so Ohtani wouldn't have to make a ton of effort to get all that done in a language he doesn't speak.

Even if Ohtani has another guy to handle the finances part of stuff like that, that guy would still need to go through Ohtani's interpreter, who can easily lie to both of them without them knowing. "Tell Finance Bro here that I want 150k sent to the dealer for that car I like."
"Shohei says to send 150k to this car dealer and another 150k to this other account that we've used before."
"Okay tell him I will send that money to those 2 accounts."
"He says he is sending the money to the dealer for your car."

I mean these are just silly, made-up hypotheticals, but I would think an interpreter like this guy who is supposed to be Ohtani's best, most trusted friend in America, would have many opportunities to misdirect big amounts of money if he was dishonest and sneaky enough.

I'm definitely not saying that Ohtani didn't make bets himself, just that the interpreter situation is really unusual and unlike anything that an English speaking athlete would have to deal with here.

 

[jcd0805]

The language barrier is the problem though-- if the bank sends a text to Ohtani's phone in English, he's not going to read it, he's going to have his interpreter tell him what it says. "Oh they are just saying thanks to you for being such a great customer, nothing else." His interpreter might even have a phone that he does Ohtani's business on for him, all logged in to Ohtani's accounts.

Also, routine expenses for a guy like this would be huge. "Book the private back room of that high end restaurant that I like for Wednesday when we are in New York. Also, book me a helicopter flight to get to a meeting in the Hamptons for the next morning" or whatever. And then the interpreter deals with all of that, including paying for it through Ohtani's accounts, so Ohtani wouldn't have to make a ton of effort to get all that done in a language he doesn't speak.

Even if Ohtani has another guy to handle the finances part of stuff like that, that guy would still need to go through Ohtani's interpreter, who can easily lie to both of them without them knowing. "Tell Finance Bro here that I want 150k sent to the dealer for that car I like."
"Shohei says to send 150k to this car dealer and another 150k to this other account that we've used before."
"Okay tell him I will send that money to those 2 accounts."
"He says he is sending the money to the dealer for your car."

I mean these are just silly, made-up hypotheticals, but I would think an interpreter like this guy who is supposed to be Ohtani's best, most trusted friend in America, would have many opportunities to misdirect big amounts of money if he was dishonest and sneaky enough.

I'm definitely not saying that Ohtani didn't make bets himself, just that the interpreter situation is really unusual and unlike anything that an English speaking athlete would have to deal with here.

So the type of financial institution a multi millionaire uses for his money doesn’t have any way to text in his native language? Also he’s been her several years, he hasn’t picked up a rudimentary understanding of English, enough to understand “wire transfer of a number with a LOT of zeros has been initiated…”? Seems weird he’d put money somewhere that he couldn’t communicate in his own language.

 

[pinkhatfan]

So the type of financial institution a multi millionaire uses for his money doesn’t have any way to text in his native language? Also he’s been her several years, he hasn’t picked up a rudimentary understanding of English, enough to understand “wire transfer of a number with a LOT of zeros has been initiated…”? Seems weird he’d put money somewhere that he couldn’t communicate in his own language.

Yes, but if Ohtani trusted Mizuhara, it seems possible that Ohtani didn't take advantage of those other possible channels of communication.

I have no idea what actually happened, and I'm not deeply invested in any particular outcome. But people tend to trust those closest to them, and sometimes that trust is misplaced.

 

[Tokyo Sox]

So the type of financial institution bank a multi millionaire uses for his money doesn’t have any way to text in his native language?

...correct? You think US banks send text alerts in Japanese? They do not, probably for Compliance reasons as much as technical or resource reasons.

Regardless the more important point is that he probably can't be bothered to deal with such things anyway, and alerts in any language were as likely to go to Ippei's phone as to Ohtani's. Or to a phone in Ohtani's name that Ippei dealt with.

 

[jon abbey]

It's hard to believe anyone genuinely trying to steal money from their employer's account would do it in $500,000 chunks.

 

[beautokyo]

Regardless the more important point is that he probably can't be bothered to deal with such things anyway, and alerts in any language were as likely to go to Ippei's phone as to Ohtani's. Or to a phone in Ohtani's name that Ippei dealt with.

I buy this scenario as it seems like the relationship was this strong. What other things did they talk about since they were such good friends I keep asking myself.

 

[joe dokes]

I buy this scenario as it seems like the relationship was this strong. What other things did they talk about since they were such good friends I keep asking myself.

He has Ohtani's password at Sons of Bobby Knoop.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I buy this scenario as it seems like the relationship was this strong. What other things did they talk about since they were such good friends I keep asking myself.

It still requires one to believe that nobody in Ohtani’s orbit was monitoring his banking activity, either Ohtani himself or his business managers. I think focusing on who is getting text alerts is missing the point.

 

[SumnerH]

...correct? You think US banks send text alerts in Japanese? They do not, probably for Compliance reasons as much as technical or resource reasons.

If I were a Japanese speaker with limited English I'd almost certainly look at places like the Japanese-American Community Credit Union or U.S. Bancorp (which just acquired Union Bank from MUFG and is supposed to have good Japanese language support) to ensure I'd have at least some access to my finances in my language and company-employed Japanese speaking customer service. The former would probably be worth talking to even if they weren't a right fit for your assets, as they'd be likely to have accurate pointers to the right place to go.

And Ohtani also should also have access to services that most of us don't: the big banks all have substantial private client support for high net-worth customers, including in foreign languages.

 

[Rovin Romine]

If I were a Japanese speaker with limited English I'd almost certainly look at places like the Japanese-American Community Credit Union or U.S. Bancorp (which just acquired Union Bank from MUFG and is supposed to have good Japanese language support) to ensure I'd have at least some access to my finances in my language and company-employed Japanese speaking customer service. The former would probably be worth talking to even if they weren't a right fit for your assets, as they'd be likely to have accurate pointers to the right place to go.

And Ohtani also should also have access to services that most of us don't: the big banks all have substantial private client support for high net-worth customers, including in foreign languages.

Moreover, Ohtani would have established a relationship with an American bank when he was first starting out in 2018 and didn't have spare millions to throw about. He may have shifted banks when his finances increased, but why downgrade any language access in that process?

 

[Tokyo Sox]

Moreover, Ohtani would have established a relationship with an American bank when he was first starting out in 2018 and didn't have spare millions to throw about. He may have shifted banks when his finances increased, but why downgrade any language access in that process?

Why worry about it at all if there were not millions in the beginning and Ippei was handling it smoothly anyway? Status quo is the path of least resistance even as circumstances change.

 

[Tokyo Sox]

If I were a Japanese speaker with limited English I'd almost certainly look at places like the Japanese-American Community Credit Union or U.S. Bancorp (which just acquired Union Bank from MUFG and is supposed to have good Japanese language support) to ensure I'd have at least some access to my finances in my language and company-employed Japanese speaking customer service. The former would probably be worth talking to even if they weren't a right fit for your assets, as they'd be likely to have accurate pointers to the right place to go.

And Ohtani also should also have access to services that most of us don't: the big banks all have substantial private client support for high net-worth customers, including in foreign languages.

What if you were a 23yo kid whose sole focus was playing baseball? And if you were the kind of 23yo who didn't care about the fact that you could have made tens or maybe hundreds of millions more dollars if you waited two years to make the move, because testing yourself against the best was the main driver, and not the money?

 

[jcd0805]

What if you were a 23yo kid whose sole focus was playing baseball? And if you were the kind of 23yo who didn't care about the fact that you could have made tens or maybe hundreds of millions more dollars if you waited two years to make the move, because testing yourself against the best was the main driver, and not the money?

Japan is a sophisticated country with strong family culture, I know he’s very private but do we not think he has a single family member looking after his interests? I don’t know why people want to portray Ohtani as a dunderhead too “naive” to handle his finances just because he’s not from here.

 

[Tokyo Sox]

do we not think he has a single family member looking after his interests?

Yes, we do not think that. Because we've never heard of any of his family members being involved in his affairs, ever. He probably wires (or asked Ippei to wire!) some money to his parents from time to time? I think it was only in the last year or so that he bought his parents a Porsche. Also he is from the sticks; his parents & siblings are not worldly people. There's a reasonable chance they have their money at the post office, or a very small regional bank. They would not be logical choices for point person (or oversight) on his international banking interests.

I don’t know why people want to portray Ohtani as a dunderhead too “naive” to handle his finances just because he’s not from here.

I don't think he was too naïve to handle his own finances; I think he genuinely did not care about his finances when he first when over, and by the time it mattered he had given Ippei so much access and trust that it was too late.

 

[SumnerH]

What if you were a 23yo kid whose sole focus was playing baseball? And if you were the kind of 23yo who didn't care about the fact that you could have made tens or maybe hundreds of millions more dollars if you waited two years to make the move, because testing yourself against the best was the main driver, and not the money?

23yo isn't a kid. At that age, a lot of people have graduated college and been in the workforce for a year or two. Less privileged people have been working a trade or a job for 5ish years. Ohtani had been a working pro athlete for about 5 years already by then.

I moved to Ecuador as a 22 year old, with no particular motivation other than wanting to get the hell out of the shithole that is American college, meet attractive South American ladies, and party like a rock star, and a lot less supporting resources than an international sports star has.

Even then, finding a bank that I could talk to and an apartment with an English-speaking manager were obvious core parts of the emigration process: I knew that I was moving away from a place where I could try to hit my parents or friends up for support to a foreign country where I had to manage everything for myself.

That's extremely basic shit that even a teenager would understand, not something a 23 yo would be confused about. And that was c. 1998.

And Ohtani had a lot more tools available from simple wealth.

 

[Tokyo Sox]

23yo isn't a kid. At that age, a lot of people have graduated college and been in the workforce for a year or two. Less privileged people have been working a trade or a job for 5+ years.

I moved to Ecuador as a 22 year old, with no particular motivation other than wanting to get the hell out of the shithole that is American college, meet attractive South American ladies, and party like a rock star, and a lot less supporting resources than an international sports star has.

Even then, finding a bank that I could talk to and an apartment with an English-speaking manager were obvious core parts of the emigration process: I knew that I was moving away from a place where I could try to hit my parents or friends up for support to a foreign country where I had to manage everything for myself.

That's extremely basic shit that even a teenager would understand, not something a 23 yo would be confused about. And that was c. 1998.

And Ohtani had a lot more tools available from simple wealth.

I don't know what to tell you guys. You're looking at this through every possible lens except the lens of who Ohtani was and is. It's great you set out on your own. I didn't get on a plane until I was 20 years old, then celebrated my 21st in a bar in Nagoya. It was awesome. When Ohtani was 17 he was in high school, playing baseball on a national stage. When he was 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23 he was living in a Nippon Ham Fighters team dormitory and living and breathing baseball.

One thing you're right about is that Ohtani had more tools than you to deal with these international challenges. His primary tool was a guy named Ippei Mizuhara, who he'd known since he was 18, spoke the language, and handled everything for him so he could focus on the only thing he really cared about at the time.

 

[EvilEmpire]

I don't know what to tell you guys. You're looking at this through every possible lens except the lens of who Ohtani was and is.

I think very few people really know who Ohtani was and is well enough to unravel this situation. The only thing I'm relatively sure of is that there are plenty of investigative leads for law enforcement and MLB to follow up on or pursue as they want or need to. Lots of money to track, lots of questions for Ohtani on how he and his team handled his finances, and what procedures his financial institutions had in place are probably just starting points. If Ohtani was personally involved in illegal betting I think it will take too many lies to completely cover it up.

I doubt it will be fast though.

 

[changer591]

I love how many people are comparing their experiences as Americans growing up in America to a person from a whole different part of the world with a very different culture even when someone who is most likely way more familiar with that area and culture is trying to explain why things may have been the way they were.
Many of you at being ridiculous with your belief that everyone's experiences must be similar to your own. Wow, you went abroad in your early 20s and budget every month and know where every dollar goes. That must mean the guy from Japan must be able to do the same things.
I'm not even Japanese and was born in America, but I am from a different culture and the amount of willful hand waving away or cultural differences is kind of shocking. We are kind of blessed we have someone like @Tokyo Sox to be patient and explain some of them to us and yet the responses are "am I really to believe that a person that is not an American and can't speak the language would behave in such a different manner?"
And I want to point out something that others have already done which is that there are loads of stories of famous people getting defrauded and stolen in the past...people that DO speak the language and are American. They must be some serious dummies to let that happen right?
If the story were just that Ohtani got a bunch of money stolen from, would anyone even blink an eye?
It's really a shame that the gambling is part of this, because it results in an overanalysis of things which brings out the lack of empathy to the situation of others.

 

[BringBackMo]

I moved to Ecuador as a 22 year old, with no particular motivation other than wanting to get the hell out of the shithole that is American college, meet attractive South American ladies, and party like a rock star

For the love of god, man…how did it go?

 

[BigSoxFan]

I love how many people are comparing their experiences as Americans growing up in America to a person from a whole different part of the world with a very different culture even when someone who is most likely way more familiar with that area and culture is trying to explain why things may have been the way they were.
Many of you at being ridiculous with your belief that everyone's experiences must be similar to your own. Wow, you went abroad in your early 20s and budget every month and know where every dollar goes. That must mean the guy from Japan must be able to do the same things.
I'm not even Japanese and was born in America, but I am from a different culture and the amount of willful hand waving away or cultural differences is kind of shocking. We are kind of blessed we have someone like @Tokyo Sox to be patient and explain some of them to us and yet the responses are "am I really to believe that a person that is not an American and can't speak the language would behave in such a different manner?"
And I want to point out something that others have already done which is that there are loads of stories of famous people getting defrauded and stolen in the past...people that DO speak the language and are American. They must be some serious dummies to let that happen right?
If the story were just that Ohtani got a bunch of money stolen from, would anyone even blink an eye?
It's really a shame that the gambling is part of this, because it results in an overanalysis of things which brings out the lack of empathy to the situation of others.

None of us know anything here, including you. If you want to give Ohtani the benefit of the doubt based on circumstantial evidence or support, that’s your choice. If others want to be more skeptical based on their lived experience or read of the current known facts, that’s theirs.

We simply don’t know enough to know who’s right and who’s wrong.

 

[BaseballJones]

If the story were just that Ohtani got a bunch of money stolen from, would anyone even blink an eye?
It's really a shame that the gambling is part of this, because it results in an overanalysis of things which brings out the lack of empathy to the situation of others.

But…. That’s apparently not the story. Which is why it’s a big deal.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

But…. That’s apparently not the story. Which is why it’s a big deal.

It does seem to be some extra bad luck though if Ohtani is actually a completely innocent victim. Not only to get ripped off by somebody he trusts and was dependent upon, but to have the guy wiring funds from his account directly to an illegal gambling outfit that is currently under investigation. With gambling being one of the few things that could jeopardize his career. If he is completely innocent, this is just terrible.

 

[YTF]

What if you were a 23yo kid whose sole focus was playing baseball? And if you were the kind of 23yo who didn't care about the fact that you could have made tens or maybe hundreds of millions more dollars if you waited two years to make the move, because testing yourself against the best was the main driver, and not the money?

On the surface that sounds plausible, but in reality these guys have agents, business managers and accounting firms in place that handle these things. The language aspect of this seems interesting to me as we live in a day and age where you can convert/translate damn near anything you want via any type of device that you choose to use. I find it hard to believe that a man of his wealth doesn't have some sort of system in place to ensure that he's fully understanding of certain issues.

 

[changer591]

None of us know anything here, including you. If you want to give Ohtani the benefit of the doubt based on circumstantial evidence or support, that’s your choice. If others want to be more skeptical based on their lived experience or read of the current known facts, that’s theirs.

We simply don’t know enough to know who’s right and who’s wrong.

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Everyone is able to have their own opinions and thoughts on what may or may not have happened...but when someone is providing some insight into a different race and culture and seems to be getting push back in every single aspect, it reminds me of threads in V&N where people tend to willfully ignore the experiences of other just because they didn't experience it that way. That's what I'm pushing back against

 

[joe dokes]

It does seem to be some extra bad luck though if Ohtani is actually a completely innocent victim. Not only to get ripped off by somebody he trusts and was dependent upon, but to have the guy wiring funds from his account directly to an illegal gambling outfit that is currently under investigation. With gambling being one of the few things that could jeopardize his career. If he is completely innocent, this is just terrible.

I don't think he was too naïve to handle his own finances; I think he genuinely did not care about his finances when he first when over, and by the time it mattered he had given Ippei so much access and trust that it was too late.

I have assumed that, based on this level of trust, Ohtani gave Ippei the "keys" to at least this account. (I disagree that he didn't care, or that "not caring" = "neglect," as he probably had people/agents/advisors looking after the bulk of his stuff). But if we change the destination of the money from "bookie" to "drug dealers," it would be much easier to believe that, like so many athletes and celebrities, Ohtani was taken advantage of by someone he trusted. I understand why the focus is on gambling, because: 1) the draconian consequences; and 2) we think it damn near impossible that Ohtani was an addict or dealer, but it's somewhat less impossible that he's a gambler. Until I see something other than the conflicting statements made during the early "fog of war," as it were, I think Ippei is the bad actor here (or could be seen as a less culpable gambling addict) and that Ohtani's only "crime" is trusting him too much.

I also dont think it's impossible that Ippei told him "they're gonna break my legs and kill my mother," and that Ohtani affirmatively helped him. I think it's less likely than Ippei straight up spending the money on his own (though potentially stickier legally).

In either case, I dont think culture or language has all that much to do with it. Except the cultures of wealth and celebrity.

We could go back to Jackie Coogan.
Illinois child influencer law has history in child actor Jackie Coogan - The Washington Post

Or more recently to Jack Johnson (the hockey player)
NHL -- Jack Johnson's relationship with parents broken as he tries to rebuild financial life - ESPN

Leonard Cohen
How an Embezzling Manager Caused Leonard Cohen's Late-Career Comeback | Billboard

The list is endless.
How These A-List Celebrities Got Scammed Out of Money (yahoo.com)

 

[BaseballJones]

It does seem to be some extra bad luck though if Ohtani is actually a completely innocent victim. Not only to get ripped off by somebody he trusts and was dependent upon, but to have the guy wiring funds from his account directly to an illegal gambling outfit that is currently under investigation. With gambling being one of the few things that could jeopardize his career. If he is completely innocent, this is just terrible.

Totally. I don’t think anyone wants this to be the case.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. Everyone is able to have their own opinions and thoughts on what may or may not have happened...but when someone is providing some insight into a different race and culture and seems to be getting push back in every single aspect, it reminds me of threads in V&N where people tend to willfully ignore the experiences of other just because they didn't experience it that way. That's what I'm pushing back against

Just want to caution that Tokyo Sox isn’t the only one with knowledge of Japanese culture here. My wife is Japanese and I’ve been 10+ times now and have had countless conversations with her friends and family. Doesn’t make me an expert - not close or it - but not everyone here is a novice on the subject.

My skepticism comes from my professional experience. I think it’s very possible Ippei had access to accounts, I think it’s less likely that nobody in Shohei’s orbit knew about the activity.

But I hope I’m wrong. I’m rooting for this to all be about one bad actor and incompetent people around Shohei. I just have a lot of questions that need to be answered before I think that is what occurred.

 

[changer591]

Just want to caution that Tokyo Sox isn’t the only one with knowledge of Japanese culture here. My wife is Japanese and I’ve been 10+ times now and have had countless conversations with her friends and family. Doesn’t make me an expert - not close or it - but not everyone here is a novice on the subject.

My skepticism comes from my professional experience. I think it’s very possible Ippei had access to accounts, I think it’s less likely that nobody in Shohei’s orbit knew about the activity.

But I hope I’m wrong. I’m rooting for this to all be about one bad actor and incompetent people around Shohei. I just have a lot of questions that need to be answered before I think that is what occurred.

Apologies if I painted with too broad of a brush. I'm not an expert either being not Japanese nor not knowing anyone from Japan, but I'm willing to accept that the culture there is so different and that the experiences I have had have virtually no bearing on Ohtani. I'm not Japanese, I've never been to Japan, I'm not rich, and I'm not a baseball player. Who am I to question how Ohtani handles his finances or what he might consider normal is not?
Listen, it's not about being skeptical about the story...it's all the questioning of why he would have done something and still questioning it even when you got an answer.

 

[SumnerH]

For the love of god, man…how did it go?

Agley.

I got run over by a bus and spent a couple of months in bed and on crutches.

 

[Reverse Curve]

It doesn’t surprise me that much that Ippei could have had access to his accounts. He wasn’t just an interpreter but more like his personal assistant.

In the third paragraph of the SI baseball preview issue that I referenced earlier regarding Ohtani, the cover subject. Setting is a NYC hotel prior to spring training: "With him are his two most trusted friends. To his left sits Ippei Mizuhara, his training associate, ride-or-die buddy and translator. Behind him, curled comfortably on the bed, is his dog..."

The dog apparently understands commands in both Japanese and English, but either way, he ain't talking.

 

[Spelunker]

Apologies if I painted with too broad of a brush. I'm not an expert either being not Japanese nor not knowing anyone from Japan, but I'm willing to accept that the culture there is so different and that the experiences I have had have virtually no bearing on Ohtani. I'm not Japanese, I've never been to Japan, I'm not rich, and I'm not a baseball player. Who am I to question how Ohtani handles his finances or what he might consider normal is not?
Listen, it's not about being skeptical about the story...it's all the questioning of why he would have done something and still questioning it even when you got an answer.

It's also not just the culture of a different country, it's the culture of someone groomed to be a professional athlete. We've long noted that pro athletes can be left extra...myopic and sheltered by the single minded process and focus built around them, starting these data from a very young age.

I'm pretty sure we have few, if any, posters with that experience.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Apologies if I painted with too broad of a brush. I'm not an expert either being not Japanese nor not knowing anyone from Japan, but I'm willing to accept that the culture there is so different and that the experiences I have had have virtually no bearing on Ohtani. I'm not Japanese, I've never been to Japan, I'm not rich, and I'm not a baseball player. Who am I to question how Ohtani handles his finances or what he might consider normal is not?
Listen, it's not about being skeptical about the story...it's all the questioning of why he would have done something and still questioning it even when you got an answer.

No apologies needed. I think what makes this story so fascinating is that a wide range of outcomes remains plausible until we know more. But just because something is plausible doesn’t make it true. We simply need more facts.