I was thinking Butler could help out Philly's secondary. Seems like he could land there next year.
SBLII: What Did the Butler Do?
- Thread starter ifmanis5
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This is self-selecting then. Because 1) Team First 2) Show up on time where you are supposed to be and 3) Do your job - seem to be a reasonable set of rules. Any potential free agent that is scared off by these rules isn't likely a free agent that BB wants on his team. Even alleged malcontents like Dillon, Blount, Moss, et al came here and excelled under the rules.
I know there are more rules than that... but it's still self-selecting. Honestly, the biggest thing that might scare away free agents is the idea that BB wants and expects them to be the best version of themselves within the team concept. That's pressure, lol.
Not sure that he really stretched anything. I guess the guy to his immediate left is a coach/staff member, but he does have players to either side and even has an arm on his shoulder supporting him.
Minor point, however.
Right now the one point that sticks in my craw is not telling them until just before the game and the potential divided locker room.
For the record, I understand where you're coming from and why you're holding out for the possibility that you describe. Really this is my only issue with the loss and this was the outcome I was afraid of for the last week. Am I disappointed, absolutely, but I'm not Big Jim Murray spitting mad because that would be a spoiled and entitled reaction.
You really don't remember Tiquan Underwood and his vintage flat top hair cut? How can you forget that?
I agree I would love to know more about what went down, how it was dealt with and why. And especially what’s going on now, and how they try to manage it.
Hell, I would watch a 30 on 30 on this in a cocaine heartbeat.
In a backwards way, the entire Butler narrative is sort of shielding Belichick, Patricia and the entire team from what should be some significant criticism. The defense let up five touchdowns and three field goals in 10 drives. The didn't put a finger on Foles. They didn't tackle. They made similar mistakes over and over.
As Cooks demonstrated, you're always one play away from losing a player for the game. Butler could have tweaked an ankle on the first series. Other than Brady, you have to build and coach a team that can do the most minimal parts of playing defense in the national football league even if a decent player goes down. The defense was absolutely putrid in a game where just kind of putrid would have won a championship. Everyone on that side of the ball is to blame, including those who coached them.
I don't know what is in Belichick's head, but if you're Matt Patricia aren't you just a bit relieved if they keep talking about Butler? It sure as hell beats the alternative.
Bademosi didn't want to talk about it:
Anthony GuliziaVerified account @AnthonyGulizia
#Patriots cornerback Johnson Bademosi didn’t love the idea of a crowd closing in on him. “I ain’t got nothing for you. I don’t owe you guys shit,” he said, then left.
Anthony GuliziaVerified account @AnthonyGulizia
#Patriots cornerback Johnson Bademosi didn’t love the idea of a crowd closing in on him. “I ain’t got nothing for you. I don’t owe you guys shit,” he said, then left.
Even though the "truth" is likely to come out, that it won't come out from Belichick means something to the other 60 or so players on the roster, possibly to others that might be thinking of playing here, or who get traded or drafted, and to Belichick. The net effect on Butler is probably the same, no matter where the truth emerges from.
With respect to the negative impact on the team's future ability to acquire players fearful of getting benched for "breaking a rule," I doubt that has much of an impact, as players, like the rest of us, probably believe "it will never happen to them." (whatever "it" is. Injury, getting caught, etc.)
With respect to the negative impact on the team's future ability to acquire players fearful of getting benched for "breaking a rule," I doubt that has much of an impact, as players, like the rest of us, probably believe "it will never happen to them." (whatever "it" is. Injury, getting caught, etc.)
First read this as a sexual/condom jab and was wondering what I was missing, ala Travis Henry. Talk about a dude who doesn't like to wrap things up.
Guys...guys! TOO SOON!
Belichick didn't acknowledge it. I believe he used the, we just put the best players on the field to help us win, in that postgame press conference. Then just said he wouldn't comment when asked in the following days.
I don't believe he ever said that he sent the Adalius four home for being late in the snowstorm, or said he sent Revis home for being late, or said he put Brandon Spikes on IR because he had enough of his crap. Everyone knows why those guys were sent home, he just doesn't confirm it. I'm sure we'll find out about Butler too.
He doesn't comment on that stuff. It always comes from the media finding it out, sometimes from the players themselves.
Belichick famously asks his players to keep in-house business in-house and not create distractions. How on earth can people expect him to break his own rule in this instance?
He comes out and starts giving answers that everyone wants to hear, and his word to the team is suddenly that much devalued next season and every season thereafter. I don’t care if it’s in an office, a classroom, a family, or in a group of friends in a fantasy league: nobody, but nobody, likes it when the guy making the rules excuses himself from breaking one on the basis of personal convenience. He doesn’t owe it only to Butler to keep it to himself, he owes it to every guy on that team and every player who has yet to walk through that door.
He comes out and starts giving answers that everyone wants to hear, and his word to the team is suddenly that much devalued next season and every season thereafter. I don’t care if it’s in an office, a classroom, a family, or in a group of friends in a fantasy league: nobody, but nobody, likes it when the guy making the rules excuses himself from breaking one on the basis of personal convenience. He doesn’t owe it only to Butler to keep it to himself, he owes it to every guy on that team and every player who has yet to walk through that door.
Yeah, I don't get why people are upset at Belichick's answer. The decision? Sure. But there's really nothing Belichick can say that helps the situation, so best to leave it as "football decision" and take the slings and arrows from the media and low-information fans.
I think its possible that BB is telling the truth in very broad strokes. That he views the entire week and the combination of all of the factors... sick, missing plane, missing curfew, missing meeting, drunk, weed, etc (if all that is true) as factors that put Malcolm behind the 8 ball (figuratively) with the gameplan. That missing time on the practice field or not being focused when he was there just put him in position where BB couldn't trust him as it relates to the overall plan the secondary was attempting to execute. So instead of a strict "benching", its more of a related issue. You missed practices, meetings, etc., and the "why" doesn't really matter. Fact is its game time and you're not ready and we don't have enough time to get you there. The net result is it looked like Butler was benched when in reality, for a number of reasons, he wasn't prepared (in BB's eyes), either physically, mentally, or both. Sort of a you benched yourself.
Might explain why Butler was crying. Maybe after a week of this rumored conduct he figured he'd make good to his teammates by performing well. BB pulls the plug on PT and he then realizes he f'd up by not being ready and he now realizes he's letting people down. If that is how it went down, the dude has problems above and beyond being immature.
Might explain why Butler was crying. Maybe after a week of this rumored conduct he figured he'd make good to his teammates by performing well. BB pulls the plug on PT and he then realizes he f'd up by not being ready and he now realizes he's letting people down. If that is how it went down, the dude has problems above and beyond being immature.
My opinion on this evolved to one that’s been posted here: BB shyed from calling it discipline so as not to taint Malcolm in his upcoming free agency. It also guarantees that he won’t be returning. (Not that the previous odds of that were much north of zero, anyhow)
This is a real test of the strength of the locker room. Will the players side with Bill and blame Malcolm? If not, there could be issues. He (rightfully) asks a ton of these guys but the reward is a legitimate shot at a super bowl every year. If these guys look at what happened and think “We busted our asses for him everyday since August and he robbed us of a shot at the last minute”, it could make for a tumultuous off season
This is a real test of the strength of the locker room. Will the players side with Bill and blame Malcolm? If not, there could be issues. He (rightfully) asks a ton of these guys but the reward is a legitimate shot at a super bowl every year. If these guys look at what happened and think “We busted our asses for him everyday since August and he robbed us of a shot at the last minute”, it could make for a tumultuous off season
I think that is how most of them look at it. Hopefully, BB not trashing MB will help him some. Make no mistake, though, MB HAS to explain this to teams interested in him, and he had better come with the truth.
There is a problem with the defense of BB based on principle/team culture, if this was a disciplinary matter. True principle does not allow for MB being active under a "break glass in the case of emergency" exception. You either have disqualified yourself from the game, or you haven't, and the team consequences are what they are. And even if "principle" were this flexible, the functional equivalent of the emergency, in fact, occurred. Last night was every bit as bad as one of the guys on the field for MB badly spraining an ankle or breaking an arm -- they were the equivalent of "out".
If this were not a disciplinary matter, then BB truly lost his mind. There was nothing to lose, and perhaps much to gain, by putting him in. The defense literally could not have been worse.
100% yes.
And I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned what I think Reverend meant by this.
I don’t think Butler’s free agency played any role whatsoever in Belichick’s comments/non-comments. Bill says what he always says, “we did what we think is best for the football team.” That’s it. That’s what he always says.
Anyways, does anyone really think that a team considering committing millions of dollars on Butler in free agency isn’t going to get to the bottom of this? They would just take Bill’s word from a press conference without doing any due diligence?
Anyways, does anyone really think that a team considering committing millions of dollars on Butler in free agency isn’t going to get to the bottom of this? They would just take Bill’s word from a press conference without doing any due diligence?
Not a Patriots fan but I come in peace. I just hope that whatever Butler did to get benched was serious because the optics of him bawling his eyes out during America the Beautiful kind of sucked. That image made the whole thing seem a little cruel.
The images of Bademosi/Richards trying to cover Philly WRs was even more cruel.
He's a fucking pro athlete in his late 20s.
I felt bad when Wes Welker bawled after blowing his knee out, I felt bad watching the Steelers react to the Shazier injury. I didn't feel bad watching a guy because he was benched.
I feel bad for Butler either way, even if it was self inflicted. But whatever the case Bill Belichick should not be making any decisions about who plays or who doesn’t play based on optics.
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 4m4 minutes ago
My understanding is the benching of #Patriots CB Malcolm Butler happened because of a perfect storm of issues: Sickness, a rough week of practice, and a minor rule violation believed to be related to curfew. A complicated matter.
My understanding is the benching of #Patriots CB Malcolm Butler happened because of a perfect storm of issues: Sickness, a rough week of practice, and a minor rule violation believed to be related to curfew. A complicated matter.
You know what would be so against the narrative? If BB turned out to be one incredibly hell of a guy who truly loves his players and who is willing to take a ton of heat for them. We know that in part this is true - the first thing he talked about in his press conference was that he made mistakes and the coaches needed to do a better job, starting with him. Instead of blaming the players for COUNTLESS missed tackles and blown assignments, he took the brunt of the heat right off the top.
It would be amazing if the story that some of you guys are putting out there is true - that Butler, the SB 49 hero, really was doing a bunch of things over the course of the year that kept BB on a slow boil, and then something seemingly minor but not really minor when you add it all up (or heck, something pretty major that a lot of people just don't know about) happened just before the Super Bowl. And that BB's handling of this now is because he actually does care about Butler and isn't looking to hang him out to dry. And that BB would rather take the hits than to jeopardize this kid's one chance at a huge payday.
I doubt we will never know. But add another chapter to the book that I most want to see written in all the world - the real story of Belichick coaching this team.
A team with 53+ guys on it (then add in the staff) is going to have all KINDS of problems over the course of a year. But you almost never hear of the problems with this team. There's no way they DON'T have issues, some major. But BB seems to do a great job keeping it all in-house.
I have no clue what happened in this situation. I hope the BB story you guys are advancing is correct, and it would blow a lot of minds out there for those that think this team "hates their coach".
I have loved Butler, like all of us have, from the beginning. I hope he has a long and successful career. But there's NO way that NOTHING happened, and that this was just a pure football decision. It's just not possible. The guy has been the starting corner for three years, and for the most part a very good one. The difference between Butler and Bademosi is enormous. I have no idea what happened but it couldn't have been nothing.
It would be amazing if the story that some of you guys are putting out there is true - that Butler, the SB 49 hero, really was doing a bunch of things over the course of the year that kept BB on a slow boil, and then something seemingly minor but not really minor when you add it all up (or heck, something pretty major that a lot of people just don't know about) happened just before the Super Bowl. And that BB's handling of this now is because he actually does care about Butler and isn't looking to hang him out to dry. And that BB would rather take the hits than to jeopardize this kid's one chance at a huge payday.
I doubt we will never know. But add another chapter to the book that I most want to see written in all the world - the real story of Belichick coaching this team.
A team with 53+ guys on it (then add in the staff) is going to have all KINDS of problems over the course of a year. But you almost never hear of the problems with this team. There's no way they DON'T have issues, some major. But BB seems to do a great job keeping it all in-house.
I have no clue what happened in this situation. I hope the BB story you guys are advancing is correct, and it would blow a lot of minds out there for those that think this team "hates their coach".
I have loved Butler, like all of us have, from the beginning. I hope he has a long and successful career. But there's NO way that NOTHING happened, and that this was just a pure football decision. It's just not possible. The guy has been the starting corner for three years, and for the most part a very good one. The difference between Butler and Bademosi is enormous. I have no idea what happened but it couldn't have been nothing.
If Butler was physically able to play, not even trying him for a series or two after the defense was getting gashed was just foolish. We’ll never know if it would have made a difference, which is the worst part.
I dearly hope he is wrong, and thankfully he often is. Because that is a tempest in a teapot of issues and would make his benching indefensible, especially during the second half, when a sure tackle on 3rd and long would have been nice now and then.
One thing I'm pretty sure of--had Brady marched them down the field, punched it in, and won the game, this would be a very, very minor subplot and I think the overriding opinion would be that this would strengthen BB's hold (not that it likely needs that). The narrative would be "Next man up" and "It's the Patriots Way or the highway" and Butler would leave and it would kind of be a sad ending, but we would have #6 and he would get paid, etc.
So, you have to decide--is it the process or the results that really matter? I think, in BB's case, he's all about the process. Because look what it has done. You see articles every year--"Why don't other teams emulate the Patriots?". For BB it's easy, it's ingrained--these are the rules. Follow them or there are consequences. When that is coupled with a bad season, a bad week of practice, etc. it solidifies in BB's mind that if this guy thinks staying out late and it showing on the field is more important than the process we have set up here and won 5 fucking Super Bowls with, than I don't need you.
So, you have to decide--is it the process or the results that really matter? I think, in BB's case, he's all about the process. Because look what it has done. You see articles every year--"Why don't other teams emulate the Patriots?". For BB it's easy, it's ingrained--these are the rules. Follow them or there are consequences. When that is coupled with a bad season, a bad week of practice, etc. it solidifies in BB's mind that if this guy thinks staying out late and it showing on the field is more important than the process we have set up here and won 5 fucking Super Bowls with, than I don't need you.
If that's all there was, and it's a changing story, I dunno man. Bill gets the benefit of the doubt and obviously it's going to eat at him more than my bystander self, but it just seems stubborn not to play the guy at all when the defense is softer than baby poo all game.
There's a line in the Hagakure I always liked about second chance; can't remember it verbatim, but basically how sometimes the person who let you down the first time will be so inspired to make it right on a second opportunity it's worth having faith.
There's a line in the Hagakure I always liked about second chance; can't remember it verbatim, but basically how sometimes the person who let you down the first time will be so inspired to make it right on a second opportunity it's worth having faith.
If Butler signs a large contract with another team, he’d count more towards the Patriots comp pick formula correct? That would be another reason for BB not to submarine the guy in the press.
Good lord. Ok B.B. apologists, have at it. This off-season is going to be a nightmare
Well, Girardi tweeted earlier that it was "the last straw". So, yeah, maybe minor this week, but that it was building.
I don’t buy it. Otherwise he would have been in during the second half. When he saw the “benching” backfired.
"ONE TWEET AND I'M 100% VINDICATED!!"
Good lord, dude. You're a nightmare on this. What are you looking for? BB to be fired? Even if BB fucked this up, he's won 5 Super Bowls for the team you root for--a team that was a fucking laughingstock.
I don't get this at all. So he was benched but allowed to dress because if there was an injury the "rules" he broke don't matter? But if the D is getting absolutely gashed the rules still matter? And that weird thing with playing him on 1 special teams snap.
What exact message about the rules was Belichick supposed to be sending?
1--Yeah, because if someone got hurt, asking Danny Amendola to play DB isn't really a good idea. And don't reply with Troy Brown, because you know why that's different.
2--The whole "he wasn't benched he played 1 snap on special teams" is a special kind of dumb. BB pretty clearly didn't think Butler's focus was there to handle playing DB in the Super Bowl. To cover a punt? Sure, whatever. Not sure who he replaced on the coverage team but quit possibly it was the guy who had to go play DB for him.
I'll ask you what I asked the other guy--do you think BB should be fired? What exactly do you want? Rev to give him a guest account so he can post a very special I'm sorry to someone named MuppetAsteriskTalk?
If Butler did something (or some things) to get himself benched, isn't he the one that let the team down and not Belichick? I don't have a problem with Belichick enforcing his rules, I have a problem with guys breaking them during the most important game of the season. There's plenty of time in the offseason to be a degenerate.
His teammates should be angry with him, not the coach.
His teammates should be angry with him, not the coach.
“building”???
Here is the big problem. Nothing in a curfew violation is remotely disqualifying with rings on the line.
So what are you left with? He did not practice well, and he was sick.
Fine. But when the guys out there are getting lit up drive after drive, you cannot reasonably sit around and hope they will get better — “it will take, you watch!”
No. You stick Butler out there for a couple of series. If he soils himself, literally or figuratively, revert to plan.
These precious thoughts would be called “in-game adjustments.”