Round 2: Celtics vs Cavs

[PedroKsBambino]

I agree, JBB seemed like a pretty good coach. Feels like this one is all about Mitchell not liking him and the team being (understandably) desparate to keep him happy.

They really have two paired interesting choices: keep Mitchell & Garland, or deal one? And, keep Allen/Mobley together or deal Allen?

Can imagine the Allen/Mobley choice impacts Mitchell's thinking about the team (maybe not---no idea his POV, but I think many player are trending towards preferring more shooters and fewer bigs while coaches see the defensive tradeoffs more). Would guess the other permutations are largely independent

 

[slamminsammya]

They were only down 2 games to 1, without Allen, and then Mitchell got hurt and that was that. I don't see how you can hold that against the coach but I can't claim to pay attention to them on a daily basis.

i’m talking more about the last few years than this specific series. and i don’t necessarily agree, just trying to see what they might be thinking

 

[riboflav]

That kind of sucks. I think he did a great job.

Yeah I thought this was going to happen and yet it's ridiculous to fire him. OTOH, I can see a case where they have underachieved since acquiring Mitchell. Last year's early exit (1-4) probably doomed him more than anything.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Shams basically wrote a hit piece right after the buzzer sounded on G5 claiming Altman and Spida weren't big fans. Who knows but it feels like that's a signal of a few potential changes. New coach, maybe new stars...

 

[Jimbodandy]

The Celtics offense does not look like what people expect a 120+ net rating offense to look like; that is definitely true.

Old person rant trigger warning: I blame some of this on Sportscenter are Instagram highlights culture. The peak Harden, Luka, now Ant videos of the alpha pounding the ball, breaking ankles, and banging 3s and and-1s. Folks see that, and the occasional back door assist and think that's elite basketball. Ghost screens, zone breaker spot, dunker spot, efficient basketball doesn't produce great highlights.

That kind of sucks. I think he did a great job.

I agree. Star maintenance goes back to Dr. Naismith tho.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Feel like JBB is getting the blame for not being the first coach ever to figure out how to contend in the modern NBA with an undersized offense first (arguably only) backcourt. Those teams never work, no matter what defensive bigs you add.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

It's neither Showtime nor Jews-in-tight-shorts running weave after weave.

So, you're saying if we went and got Jordan Farmer that would solve the problem?

 

[nighthob]

I think the Celts, who I can only say for the gazillionth time, are probably the best/deepest team in the NBA, but all too often get bored or complacent, or distracted and if they do against good, healthy well coached teams, they'll lose.

Good teams get bored and complacent all the time. The ‘86 Celtics did. The ‘08 Celtics did. It’s a function of being an order of magnitude better than the other team on the floor. The current edition shows the very positive sign of playing its best ball in hostile conditions.

The 2008 Celtics started the playoffs 10-8, and looked as bad in those 8 losses as the Celtics have looked in their 2 losses.

This gets waaaaaay oversold. And it’s simply untrue. Atlanta got blown out four times at the Garden, with Boston never putting out anything like a real effort. Under the same conditions in Atnalta the Hawks barely squeaked wins because Josh Smith played out of his mind. In round 2 they got the GOAT in his prime. And even at that it was a defensive slugfest. Offensively both teams looked bad because defensively both teams were killers. Lost in the miasma is that the ECF went the same fashion, it was a defensive slugfest that Boston won in 6 because the Pistons lacked an LBJ. Or even a Carmelo Anthony.

He didn't even show up for the game at all.

Don’t be giving ESPN any ideas.

Last week, Danny Green said Tatum is the "wing version of Tim Duncan." Love the Spurs comparisons.

It’s a great comparison, Tatum has turned himself into a jack of all trades type player that supplies you whatever you need to win. Including offense. Having two of those guys (because Jrue is that same type of player) is a major advantage.

99% of the media doesn't really think about defense whatsoever. I've said this so many times that people would be sick of hearing it if they notice--to pretty much everyone pushing basketball content, you're either peak Kawhi defense, Trae Young defense, or you've everyone else in the middle. They simply don't care. Forcing opponents to take bad shots with 2 seconds on the shot clock impacts winning in a huge way. But it's boring content.

Yeah, they stare at the screen waiting for the highlight part of the play ignoring everything that produced it.

I'd go further: 99% of the media doesn't think about offense whatsoever. I think discourse around NBA offense is much, much worse than that around defense. People are extremely primitive in their understandings of what makes up offensive ecosystems or what NBA coaches are trying to do/avoid on that end.

See above. They love the dunks and stepback treys. But they don't even listen to Mazzulla when he tries to explain his ideas and approach much less understand the video of it.

 

[joe dokes]

See above. They love the dunks and stepback treys. But they don't even listen to Mazzulla when he tries to explain his ideas and approach much less understand the video of it.

I mentioned this in a gamethread, but JM's pregame chats with Grande are really good. Grande gets him talking details and loosens him up, and JM sounds like Belichick discussing the historical development of right guard blocking techniques in his Friday press conferences.
He'd vaporize Barkley, et al. if they got to seriously talking details.

With everyone else, including Scal for some reason, he goes full anodyne (JM version).

Id love to see a serious coaching chat with JM, Jvg, Hubie and Popovich.

 

[the moops]

It feels like the Cavs scenarios involve not only moving one of Garland or Spida but also maybe a reunion.

A reunion of what?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I think what's missing from the bolded is that those "good, healthy, well-coached teams" also get "bored, complacent or distracted" sometimes (or, more generally, just suffer from some temporary malady that causes them to look like shit).

Exactly. EVERY team does. No team can walk onto the floor for every game of 4 playoffs series with Game 7-like intensity. It doesn’t work this way. A hockey friend of mine called me yesterday to ask why there are so many playoff blowouts in the NBA and. It’s pretty simple. On nights when one doesn’t come with full urgency there is generally an exhale based upon where the series stands that is also going to cause the other team to have great urgency. It’s the perfect storm and our G2’s on the last two series are perfect examples of this. Dallas has dealt with this as well vs OKC and even in-game in the 2H that ended up costing them the chance at an easy 5-game series. We are a great enough team to overcome this easily while someone like the Mavs allowed the Thunder life now they have work to do.

People say that numbers and stats don’t matter on certain regular season nights due at times when there are “schedule losses” which is true….but there are as many, if not more, schedule losses in the postseason based on how a series develops and how much urgency each team has on that given night.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

A reunion of what?

Imagine with LeBron was the suggestion

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Imagine with LeBron was the suggestion

Its unlikely to happen but it feels like it could be in play, especially given how quickly Shams had that story out. That piece seemed ready for a while.

 

[the moops]

Its unlikely to happen but it feels like it could be in play, especially given how quickly Shams had that story out. That piece seemed ready for a while.

There are pieces about every disappointing team ready to go to print once that team is finally eliminated from the playoffs. Everyone has been talking about Mitchell leaving ever since he got traded there. Not seeing how this article relates to a Lebron reunion at all

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

There are pieces about every disappointing team ready to go to print once that team is finally eliminated from the playoffs. Everyone has been talking about Mitchell leaving ever since he got traded there. Not seeing how this article relates to a Lebron reunion at all

You are right. It doesn't relate to a LeBron reunion at all.

 

[Van Everyman]

Its unlikely to happen but it feels like it could be in play, especially given how quickly Shams had that story out. That piece seemed ready for a while.

Relatedly …

Something about sitting on a piece like that and publishing it within like an hour of the team’s season ending seemed borderline unprofessional to me. I’m not sure what journalistic ethic it would’ve violated exactly – and I’m not doubting the accuracy of Shams’ reporting.

But to post a super deep article that paints almost everyone in the organization in a bad light immediately after a pretty admirable albeit losing effort—where everyone was saying how well JBB had his team playing despite a rash of critical injuries—seems shitty.

It may all be 100% true and maybe they were trying to beat another publication to the punch. Even still, the timing of that piece felt like Shams/The Athletic were going out of their way to ensure no one in the Cavs organization had a moment to reflect on the season and how it ended before moving on to the offseason’s myriad recriminations.

 

[the moops]

Relatedly …

Something about sitting on a piece like that and publishing it within like an hour of the team’s season ending seemed borderline unprofessional to me. I’m not sure what journalistic ethic it would’ve violated exactly – and I’m not doubting the accuracy of Shams’ reporting.

But to post a super deep article that paints almost everyone in the organization in a bad light immediately after a pretty admirable albeit losing effort—where everyone was saying how well JBB had his team playing despite a rash of critical injuries—seems shitty.

It may all be 100% true and maybe they were trying to beat another publication to the punch. Even still, the timing of that piece felt like Shams/The Athletic were going out of their way to ensure no one in the Cavs organization had a moment to reflect on the season and how it ended before moving on to the offseason’s myriad recriminations.

This is a weird paragraph too. Like it was written before game 5, then they felt the need to just list his points for the game rather than just recalculating his stats

Entering Game 5 against Boston, Mobley was averaging 14.6 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.1 blocks in seven playoff games as Cleveland’s center while playing with a sprained ankle. In Game 5, he posted a career-playoff-high 33 points.

 

[Devizier]

Don't think it will happen, but Allen and Garland for Lebron works.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Something about sitting on a piece like that and publishing it within like an hour of the team’s season ending seemed borderline unprofessional to me. I’m not sure what journalistic ethic it would’ve violated exactly – and I’m not doubting the accuracy of Shams’ reporting.

It has always reminded me how newspapers have thousands of obituaries written for famous people long before they all die, just waiting for the day to come

Not sure if that comparison makes the practice better or worse...

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

This is a weird paragraph too. Like it was written before game 5, then they felt the need to just list his points for the game rather than just recalculating his stats

Entering Game 5 against Boston, Mobley was averaging 14.6 points, 10.7 rebounds and 2.1 blocks in seven playoff games as Cleveland’s center while playing with a sprained ankle. In Game 5, he posted a career-playoff-high 33 points.

The article needed to downplay every good thing that CLE did. Mobley? Well he only averaged 14.6 of - until he scored 33.

And this paragraph:

As the Magic series headed for a Game 7, team sources said, the vibe among the Cavs was one of uncertainty. There was a general confidence among players that they could win, but coaches weren’t sure which version of the team would emerge. Fears were realized, initially, when the Cavs fell behind by 18 in the first half, but the team recovered to win going away.​

No one knew how CLE would play in G7 and they really stunk up the joint until, well, they won. . . .

 

[TripleOT]

The Cavs have two undersized guards, two bigs who can’t shoot, and a bunch of flawed, one to no skill specialists as wings. Their best starting line up was healthy enough to start in around 40 percent of the regular season games. They managed to defeat an up and coming Magic team laden with size, and managed to not embarrass themselves when totally outmanned against the Celtics.

They can bring in a new coach, or promote one of the veteran assistants like Luke Walton, Sidney Lowe, or Greg Buckner, but coaching didn’t seem to be this team’s problem.

 

[lovegtm]

The Cavs have two undersized guards, two bigs who can’t shoot, and a bunch of flawed, one to no skill specialists as wings. Their best starting line up was healthy enough to start in around 40 percent of the regular season games. They managed to defeat an up and coming Magic team laden with size, and managed to not embarrass themselves when totally outmanned against the Celtics.

They can bring in a new coach, or promote one of the veteran assistants like Luke Walton, Sidney Lowe, or Greg Buckner, but coaching didn’t seem to be this team’s problem.

My main takeaway from the series is that I'd love to nab JBB as an assistant.

(Everyone knows I'm a CJM fan--this is just about getting a talented guy as an assistant.)