R3/68 Caedan Wallace OT PSU

[brendan f]

Isn’t the prevailing wisdom that someone will be drafted with a likely high pick next year? There was nobody close to close value at either draft spot and while its easy to say they could have traded up for the BYU Sumataia guy (that seemed even more upsetting to people that he went to KC), he is a long term play anyway, not a plug and play day 1 starter. A run happened in the draft. Oh well.

I mean, sure, I'm not shitting on their draft. They did about as well as could be expected and they weren't going to solve every need. But for Wolf to say he has full faith that Wallace can translate to LT seems optimistic and it's a gamble.

Rosengarten and Suamataia were two players they could have gone after. You can argue they would have been reaches but you can argue Polk was a reach as well (I wouldn't make that case but many have). They also could have drafted someone like Javon Foster as a depth piece over Robinson.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean, sure, I'm not shitting on their draft. They did about as well as could be expected and they weren't going to solve every need. But for Wolf to say he has full faith that Wallace can translate to LT seems optimistic and it's a gamble.

Rosengarten and Suamataia were two players they could have gone after. You can argue they would have been reaches but you can argue Polk was a reach as well (I wouldn't make that case but many have). They also could have drafted someone like Javon Foster as a depth piece over Robinson.

I liked Suamaitaia but he's incredibly raw, Wallace seems more likely to start at LT early next year. Rosengarten has played only RT.

If you're looking for a guy who isn't a risk and has played a lot of LT... You needed Paul in the 2nd (though even he's a risk) or one of of the 1sts.

Basically if you want a guy who projects as a day 1 LT and had a good amount of college experience there.... Those guys go top 20. So you're taking projects everywhere else, whether that means raw guys, possible guards, or guys who played on the right but you think could play LT if they hadn't had top teammates (Wallace, Fisher, Rosengarten etc.)

 

[Eddie Jurak]

It's a pretty big gamble that Wallace can make it at LT and it sets the line in a potentially precarious spot with three guys who profile best at RT and zero who profile best at LT. The WR room got a lot better but the tackle spot remains a big question.

I'm not sure I'd call it a gamble, in that I doubt the plan is "Wallace at LT or bust." I do think LT is the area of need that they likely did not address satisfactorily in the draft. They must have some confidence in their ability to rework the OL with the talent on hand, Wallace included - but I doubt he's just pencilled in for the LT job. For all we know, we'll eventually end up with Onwenu there.

 

[NomarsFool]

Isn’t the prevailing wisdom that someone will be drafted with a likely high pick next year? There was nobody close to close value at either draft spot and while its easy to say they could have traded up for the BYU Sumataia guy (that seemed even more upsetting to people that he went to KC), he is a long term play anyway, not a plug and play day 1 starter. A run happened in the draft. Oh well.

One can make the argument that he was the best available T prospect at 68, but I don’t think one can make the argument that he was the BPA or that he was even the BPA at a position of need. There are plenty of holes on the roster. They clearly drafted based on need, which isn’t always as bad as people make it out to be, except I think you need to be really sure the guy can address that need by being able to play that position. If you really need a WR you don’t draft a QB with a high pick hoping you can convert him.

 

[Pxer]

Heading into the draft, Wolf said they were comfortable with Okarafor at LT. Probably bullshit but it's what he said.

 

[Remagellan]

Wallace may have been Penn State's RT because that's all his skill and talent allowed him to be, or it may be he was Penn State's RT because they had a player to play LT who was good enough to be drafted in the upper part of the first round. John Taylor and John Stallworth weren't their teams second receivers because they lacked the talent to be the number one receiver, it was because of a couple of guys named Jerry Rice and Lynn Swann. (You can flip Swann and Stallworth in this if you wish.) Once upon a time at USC, Marcus Allen blocked for Charles White, who was their lead RB. Marcus turned out to be pretty good himself when he finally got the lead role.

That's the hope I'm placing in this pick.

 

[brendan f]

I'm not sure I'd call it a gamble, in that I doubt the plan is "Wallace at LT or bust." I do think LT is the area of need that they likely did not address satisfactorily in the draft.

Wolf's quote was "We definitely feel like he can play on the left side." Maybe it's better phrased as a question: what is the plan right now at LT?

Plan A: Okorafor who last played there in college
Plan B: Wallace who would need to be moved
Plan C: Onwenu who is just adequate as a RT
Plan D: Mystery Player/Free Agent/Undrafted free agent

Maybe it's me but none of these plans sound very appealing and this is the entire depth we have at the position.

I liked Suamaitaia but he's incredibly raw, Wallace seems more likely to start at LT early next year. Rosengarten has played only RT.

If you're looking for a guy who isn't a risk and has played a lot of LT... You needed Paul in the 2nd (though even he's a risk) or one of of the 1sts.

I would have been happy with
A: Someone to groom at the position and possibly take over for Okorafor later in the year
B: Another body, a dart throw later in the draft at Foster or even Tyler Grable (both of whom played LT in college)

They didn't really do either, unless you think Wallace can play LT

 

[Cellar-Door]

Wolf's quote was "We definitely feel like he can play on the left side." Maybe it's better phrased as a question: what is the plan right now at LT?

Plan A: Okorafor who last played there in college
Plan B: Wallace who would need to be moved
Plan C: Onwenu who is just adequate as a RT
Plan D: Mystery Player/Free Agent/Undrafted free agent

Maybe it's me but none of these plans sound very appealing and this is the entire depth we have at the position.

I would have been happy with
A: Someone to groom at the position and possibly take over for Okorafor later in the year
B: Another body, a dart throw later in the draft at Foster or even Tyler Grable (both of whom played LT in college)

They didn't really do either, unless you think Wallace can play LT

I mean THEY think he can play LT, which is the best you can do. I mean Foster and Grable aren't more likely to be LT in the NFL, because they are worse players.

People generally make WAY too big a deal about swapping guys left to right and vice versa, the concerns about Wallace at LT aren't that he hasn't played there, it's that LT generally need to be better at certain things and he might not be. If Wallace went to UCF or Missou he'd have probably been the LT over those guys. There is a reason we see scouting of guys who played on the left in college and it says "probably an NFL RT" guys get moved to the opposite side all the time coming out of college (see Okorafor moving to the right).

Wallace may not work as a LT, but if he doesn't, I think it will be because of quickness deficiencies much more than not being able to move left instead of right. They got to see him do it at the Bowl practices, so they have an idea how he moves.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I mean THEY think he can play LT, which is the best you can do. I mean Foster and Grable aren't more likely to be LT in the NFL, because they are worse players.

People generally make WAY too big a deal about swapping guys left to right and vice versa, the concerns about Wallace at LT aren't that he hasn't played there, it's that LT generally need to be better at certain things and he might not be. If Wallace went to UCF or Missou he'd have probably been the LT over those guys. There is a reason we see scouting of guys who played on the left in college and it says "probably an NFL RT" guys get moved to the opposite side all the time coming out of college (see Okorafor moving to the right).

Wallace may not work as a LT, but if he doesn't, I think it will be because of quickness deficiencies much more than not being able to move left instead of right. They got to see him do it at the Bowl practices, so they have an idea how he moves.

His broad jump and vert are off the charts, but his shuttle was only mid. Arms are fine but not extra. Great wingspan, height/weight are fine. He's a fascinating prospect. Wouldn't surprise me if he's next year's LT or if he can't even crack the rotation.

 

[Cellar-Door]

His broad jump and vert are off the charts, but his shuttle was only mid. Arms are fine but not extra. Great wingspan, height/weight are fine. He's a fascinating prospect. Wouldn't surprise me if he's next year's LT or if he can't even crack the rotation.

yeah, I could see it work out at LT, or him ending up at RT or even at G, or as just one of the GB/DET style guys who plays wherever he's needed as the 6th O-lineman. I just think that his transition to LT being successful will have a lot to do with whether he has the quicks for it than the minor technique differences of being on the left vs. right. He (and Fisher and maybe Rosengarten) are all interesting in that they probably all would have been LTs at different schools, they just shared the field with top 15 type 1st round talents.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Wolf's quote was "We definitely feel like he can play on the left side." Maybe it's better phrased as a question: what is the plan right now at LT?

Plan A: Okorafor who last played there in college
Plan B: Wallace who would need to be moved
Plan C: Onwenu who is just adequate as a RT
Plan D: Mystery Player/Free Agent/Undrafted free agent

Maybe it's me but none of these plans sound very appealing and this is the entire depth we have at the position.

"We definitely feel that he can play on the left side" is, to me, an opinion. They are saying they think nhe can play there, not that they are highly confident he can start there in game 1.

I agree that those are basically what the options are, and it doesn't look great, but obviously Wolf thinks they can work with it.

Also, I think "just adequate as a RT" is an understatement when it comes to Onwenu. I think he's better than that. Also he's played a little LT before. I think he's a better failsafe at LT than Vederian Lowe.

 

[tims4wins]

"We definitely feel that he can play on the left side" is, to me, an opinion. They are saying they think nhe can play there, not that they are highly confident he can start there in game 1.

I agree that those are basically what the options are, and it doesn't look great, but obviously Wolf thinks they can work with it.

Also, I think "just adequate as a RT" is an understatement when it comes to Onwenu. I think he's better than that. Also he's played a little LT before. I think he's a better failsafe at LT than Vederian Lowe.

Isn’t it all just an opinion?

 

[dynomite]

Isn’t it all just an opinion?

Right, it's an opinion based on professional scouts and front office personnel whose job is to have educated opinions about what college & NFL players can do in games. Mayo has seen a lot of Onwenu*. Wolf was in the front office when he was drafted in 2020. So I think they're in as good a position as anyone to decide what he's capable of in 2024.

And of course, this crew "feels" Wallace can play LT in the NFL, but no one can know whether that's true until he actually tries to do it against other NFL players in the spring, Training Camp, and eventually in games. Even then, he'll be a rookie in 2024, learning on the job on a rebuilding team with brand new players (and coaches) all over the roster. In other words:

I mean THEY think he can play LT, which is the best you can do.

Pitino's logic applies here: Bill and Dante aren't walking through that door. We'll just have to wait 6+ months (likely longer) to see how this new crew fares.


* And given the hand-wringing about some of the draft picks in the past few days, I found it funny to go back and look at Onwenu's NFL draft profile from 2020 when he was drafted as a 6th rounder who had played RG in college. He was rated as a "average backup or special teamer," whose "natural play strength is somewhat offset by his below-average athletic ability" with "backup guard ability." https://www.nfl.com/prospects/mike-onwenu/32004f4e-5741-5291-a74a-040f32c558e0

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Isn’t it all just an opinion?

It is a mild one, is what I mean. If you say “we think he can play there” a necessary implication of that is that you aren’t sure and maybe he can’t. I don’t think anyone is saying “we think he can play LT” about Joe Alt for example.

 

[Cellar-Door]

It is a mild one, is what I mean. If you say “we think he can play there” a necessary implication of that is that you aren’t sure and maybe he can’t. I don’t think anyone is saying “we think he can play LT” about Joe Alt for example.

And that's why Joe Alt went 4th overall, he's the rare prospect that the vast majority of the league thinks is a no doubt NFL left tackle. He and Fashanu might be the only ones in this whole draft who don't have the "we think he can play LT" caveat.

Edit- probably Mims too if he can stay healthy, but all the rest are "we think he can play LT" or "We'll play him on the right" or "He might end up a top-end guard"

 

[DJnVa]

And that's why Joe Alt went 4th overall,

5th

 

[brendan f]

FYI, Started a thread for O line discussion

https://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/current-state-of-the-o-line.42556/

 

[Cellar-Door]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40083526/how-patriots-third-round-pick-caedan-wallace-fit-in

Interesting tidbit in this Reiss piece with the PSU line coach talking about how he has guys practice extensively on both sides.

 

[brendan f]

Interesting tidbit in this Reiss piece with the PSU line coach talking about how he has guys practice extensively on both sides.

Yeah, definitely makes me feel better about his potential switch to LT. I wonder how common it is for line coaches to get their guys to practice on both sides. Seems smart and in the best interest of everyone.

 

[rodderick]

People are harping too much on the "is he an LT" angle. Odds are low of getting a premier pass protecting LT in the third round, if you think the guy can play tackle at all, you take him because that's valuable. The expectations that the Patriots had to find their QB, WR and LT of the future in rounds 1 through 3 were never realistic, and it's unfair to put that burden on Wallace. That's the position I wanted them to have fixed the most in free agency precisely for that reason.

 

[k-factory]

This is the 2025 FA list for LT
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/_/year/2025/position/lt/sort/contract_value
Wirfs is probably resigned by Tampa. Not a great set of options if no one pans out on the roster. Likely the 2025 1st round then.

 

[streeter88]

The expectations that the Patriots had to find their QB, WR and LT of the future in rounds 1 through 3 were never realistic, and it's unfair to put that burden on Wallace. That's the position I wanted them to have fixed the most in free agency precisely for that reason.

I think this is a point we can all agree on.
Expecting a draft to yield hits at three premium positions — unless you have more than one pick in the first round — is probably not realistic.

I don’t agree with trading down, but taking Minnesota’s offer was probably the only way they had a chance of this. And my sincere apologies for bringing up an argument that has been hashed and rehashed ad nauseam over the past month.

edited