R-Dub: Time Lord, Tantalizing Sleeper, or Just a Late Flier?

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
21,627
I think the other question is how he will best improve those two things---get confidence to do just a little offensively beyond the lob, and get better at positioning on defense. Would guess there's some guys who learn best with minutes and review post-game and some guys who will find it hard to struggle in front of an audience, hear it from teammates in the moment, etc. and who do best learning/developing in practice/G league. Celts hopefully have learned some about him, and hopefully the answer is 'learn by trying to do' because they need him to play the minutes now!
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
15,779
where I was last at
There is no question he is tremendously athletic and very skilled, but he's still a puppy and learning. And will pee on the rug from time to time. Defensively he will learn from coaching and by making mistakes. Its what puppies do. But his defensive instincts and reflexes are pretty fucking good. On offense, I expect he did not have to do much more than he is doing now (lob) to get points in the SEC. He's in a different league now. I do not expect or want him launching 3s, but maybe he can develop a low-post game where he can attempt high % shots and or get fouled. Ainge probably has McHale's #, and maybe Kevin can come by and impart a little low-post wisdom to TL. He'll play out of necessity but he's stil a project, but as he gets minutes against front line players and gets schooled, and he will, he may be far more ready when the real season starts in a few months.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,649
Waltham, MA
There is no question he is tremendously athletic and very skilled, but he's still a puppy and learning. And will pee on the rug from time to time. Defensively he will learn from coaching and by making mistakes. Its what puppies do. But his defensive instincts and reflexes are pretty fucking good. On offense, I expect he did not have to do much more than he is doing now (lob) to get points in the SEC. He's in a different league now. I do not expect or want him launching 3s, but maybe he can develop a low-post game where he can attempt high % shots and or get fouled. Ainge probably has McHale's #, and maybe Kevin can come by and impart a little low-post wisdom to TL. He'll play out of necessity but he's stil a project, but as he gets minutes against front line players and gets schooled, and he will, he may be far more ready when the real season starts in a few months.
Don’t mind me. I’ll just be over heat day dreaming about Lob Williams having a dash of McHale’s guile and finesse.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
There is no question he is tremendously athletic and very skilled, but he's still a puppy and learning. And will pee on the rug from time to time. Defensively he will learn from coaching and by making mistakes. Its what puppies do. But his defensive instincts and reflexes are pretty fucking good. On offense, I expect he did not have to do much more than he is doing now (lob) to get points in the SEC. He's in a different league now. I do not expect or want him launching 3s, but maybe he can develop a low-post game where he can attempt high % shots and or get fouled. Ainge probably has McHale's #, and maybe Kevin can come by and impart a little low-post wisdom to TL. He'll play out of necessity but he's stil a project, but as he gets minutes against front line players and gets schooled, and he will, he may be far more ready when the real season starts in a few months.
TL rarely faced anything but a 2-3 zone at A&M as their primary mission on offense was to get 6-10 260 scorer Tyler Davis the ball on the low block. TL would get his opportunities mainly on quick ball rotations on the other side when he could post deep. It was a completely different offense with a turtles pace, little spacing which of course is far from what he’s experiencing now.

He does have some ball skills but needs reps and confidence to be able to slow the game down to utilize them. The “developmental” problem with him playing regular rotation minutes on this team is that he’s not going to get those touches or be a part of the offense yet that he need to improve.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
15,779
where I was last at
Given the Baynes hand situation and Horford and MaMo's knees he'll get reps and touches, and be more of the offense than Danny or Brad originally anticipated. His learning curve just got steeper. Hopefully the confidence comes as he learns on the job and becomes more proficient. My expectations for TL on offense are modest, he needs a couple of low post moves and a 12-ft jumper/jump hook to get him through the night as the 5th option. Hitting his FTs might be a good idea too.

As to slowing the game down, that might be beyond his powers, but he is the Time Lord...
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,713
around the way
Given the Baynes hand situation and Horford and MaMo's knees he'll get reps and touches, and be more of the offense than Danny or Brad originally anticipated. His learning curve just got steeper. Hopefully the confidence comes as he learns on the job and becomes more proficient. My expectations for TL on offense are modest, he needs a couple of low post moves and a 12-ft jumper/jump hook to get him through the night as the 5th option. Hitting his FTs might be a good idea too.

As to slowing the game down, that might be beyond his powers, but he is the Time Lord...
Yeah he doesn't need to do much. Would just like to see him take an easy 5-7 footer if they leave him totally alone. As of now, he is only going to move the ball. Generally the right call, but not always. Confidence will come.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
I think his defensive development is more important than offensive, at least in the short term. He has a tendency to get caught halfway instead of either stayong home or jumping out decisively to close out.

I would think the Celtics could come up with some pick and roll stuff that takes advantage of the attention he draws as a roll man.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
Ian Eagle called him Time Lord on the Nets broadcast. It's all happening.
This brought back great memories of listening to New Jersey Nets games complete with static on the car AM radio with me and my friends having action on the games. True Degen moments for sure. My favorite was Nets play-by-play man Steve Albert who would go completely bonkers whenever Leon Wood (the current NBA official) would do anything. Wood lines up and makes a 3 would sound like, "Leon Woo with the 3, Home Run!...…(after ball goes through net)….KA-BOOM!!!" He would frequently call him Leon Woo because there is no D in his game so it shouldn't be in his name.
 

HowBoutDemSox

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2009
3,780
It’s Time Lord’s objective reality, we’re all just living in arbitrary temporal segments of it.

 

mostman

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2003
7,461
It’s Time Lord’s objective reality, we’re all just living in arbitrary temporal segments of it.

On his first block I had to laugh at the Pacers player (I think it was Evans) that just dribbled straight at TL and tried to shoot into his face. The outcome was exactly what you would expect. That second one was a volleyball spike. His vertical is freakish.
 
Last edited:

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
31,086
TL just blocked another NBA player like he was in the driveway playing against his 9 year-old cousin. I love this guy.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
16,367

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
16,367
Given the Cs were up 30-ish last night at points, I wished someone had told him to take a shot or two or make some kind of post-up move. Kind of weird that he never looks to make any kind of offensive move in a game.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,303
Given the Cs were up 30-ish last night at points, I wished someone had told him to take a shot or two or make some kind of post-up move. Kind of weird that he never looks to make any kind of offensive move in a game.
He's played all of 159 career minutes in the NBA after having no summer league or training camp to speak of. I get the feeling Brad and the coaches have been drilling "defense and rebounding uber alles" into his head as the way to earn playing time this year. Which is fine; I'd like for him to gain confidence in his abilities doing what he does best; there will be plenty of time to branch out later this season and next.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
He's played all of 159 career minutes in the NBA after having no summer league or training camp to speak of. I get the feeling Brad and the coaches have been drilling "defense and rebounding uber alles" into his head as the way to earn playing time this year. Which is fine; I'd like for him to gain confidence in his abilities doing what he does best; there will be plenty of time to branch out later this season and next.
Yes agreed. Save the individual work for summer league and the offseason. The goal now is the team as we are not in developmental mode Celtics.....and if TL is pressed into action during the playoffs he needs to focus on defense and rebounding to maximize his productivity in those few minutes if they come.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
16,367
He's played all of 159 career minutes in the NBA after having no summer league or training camp to speak of. I get the feeling Brad and the coaches have been drilling "defense and rebounding uber alles" into his head as the way to earn playing time this year. Which is fine; I'd like for him to gain confidence in his abilities doing what he does best; there will be plenty of time to branch out later this season and next.
Do you mean he had no training camp because training camp was shorter this year or something else?

Still, I still don't see how running a clear out or two for TL when the Cs are up 30 is going to do anything but help.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
17,667
Still, I still don't see how running a clear out or two for TL when the Cs are up 30 is going to do anything but help.
You don't want a young player even getting the mindset that he can do more than he's going to be asked. This is the danger of garbage time in creating bad habits. Keep the focus straight and narrow on what he needs to do this season to help the team if he's called upon......he has the entire offseason and summer league to develop offensive moves.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
You don't want a young player even getting the mindset that he can do more than he's going to be asked. This is the danger of garbage time in creating bad habits. Keep the focus straight and narrow on what he needs to do this season to help the team if he's called upon......he has the entire offseason and summer league to develop offensive moves.
Yup. He could be a valuable starter on a good team with zero offensive moves if he could play in the team concept on defense, and set screens, roll, and pass on offense. That's what he needs to improve asap, and then he has multiple offseasons over his career to slowly add moves.

Honestly he should just look at Gobert's trajectory over his first 3 years in the league and model himself on that. Their skillsets, physical attributes, and ultimate roles are very similar.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
34,818
One thing I've been impressed with in limited minutes is that it looks to me like he is making a real effort to NOT chase every block possible. It has led in some cases to giving up layups as he figures out how to hedge effectively and that sort of thing. But he's so freaking athletic and such a quick leaper that he can afford to stay at home much longer than the average defender and still have the chance to make a play on the shot.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
7,303
Do you mean he had no training camp because training camp was shorter this year or something else?

Still, I still don't see how running a clear out or two for TL when the Cs are up 30 is going to do anything but help.
He missed most of the summer league, and was fairly limited during training camp as they ramped him up slowly.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
1,432
You don't want a young player even getting the mindset that he can do more than he's going to be asked. This is the danger of garbage time in creating bad habits. Keep the focus straight and narrow on what he needs to do this season to help the team if he's called upon......he has the entire offseason and summer league to develop offensive moves.
Ahh, you're taking all the fun out of it. Unleash the TimeLord.

Maybe not dump him into iso's, but more PnR action. He looks to have a decent elbow jumper, maybe a little pick and pop action.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
One thing I've been impressed with in limited minutes is that it looks to me like he is making a real effort to NOT chase every block possible. It has led in some cases to giving up layups as he figures out how to hedge effectively and that sort of thing. But he's so freaking athletic and such a quick leaper that he can afford to stay at home much longer than the average defender and still have the chance to make a play on the shot.
This must be something they're heavily emphasizing with him. You can see the same thing on offense, where his screen and roll isn't fluid yet, but he's making a point to set better screens.

I'm really impressed with his work ethic, and they definitely should continue the developmental track of instilling a couple usable skills at a time, rather than throwing him to the wolves. Horford doesn't have many years left at 30mins/game, and Baynes will be a free agent and old. He's going to get a LOT of meaningful time next year if he learns this stuff now and has a good summer.
 

sezwho

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
449
Brooklyn by way of Orono
Are you referring to his popliteal artery entrapment syndrome that was discussed on draft day?

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2018/07/10/robert-williams-popliteal-artery-entrapment-syndrome
That’s one report, yes. Are you referring to the syndrome which may or may not be related to the time he has missed and the knee issues he may or may not have? And continue to have?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nesn.com/2018/09/robert-williams-injury-celtics-rookie-gives-iffy-update-on-knee-issues/amp/
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
28,060
Who knew the Celtics drafted TimeLord in the second round? I mean, it makes sense given his abilities - of course he can bend the draft results too!
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
1,396
On that dunk last night, Albert was marveling at the fact that Williams' head was at rim level when he slammed it down.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,713
around the way
On that dunk last night, Albert was marveling at the fact that Williams' head was at rim level when he slammed it down.
It was, and it's pretty impressive for a guy his size and with his length. The margin for error on lobs for that guy is like Gronk's catch radius. And no wonder he blocks shots like he's a step ahead.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
16,367
Tom Westerholm tweeted the picture below from last night. Note where Yabu's head is in the left pic. And if you watch the replay, TL certainly didn't put max effort into this jump.

 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
I'm glad he his headed to Maine for a bit where he can get some regular minutes, although I'm not sure how useful the G-league is for the development of bigs. We've seen Jordan Mickey and Fab Melo accumulate stats in the G.

As unready as he is, though, this kid has tremendous potential. Against Miami, he (from above the arc at the top of the key) had a great entry pass to Marcus in the post, with Marcus then returning it to him for a monster dunk. He also managed to close out and block someone's 3-point attempt, although this happened on his 4th attempt (on the first 2, he somehow avoided a foul, was called for a foul on the third, and got his clean block on the 4th).

I imagine he'd be a significant piece in an AD deal.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
3,934
Lisbon, PT
I imagine he'd be a significant piece in an AD deal.
The only thing is that if he hasn't had enough time/opportunity to develop by the summer, his current value then might make him hard to trade. i.e. if the Celtics think much more highly of him than do the Pels, the Celtics probably throw in a different piece. Conversely, if he's shown something by July, and there's buzz around him in the league, you move him then to cash in on the extra expected value.

Given the the team's minutes constraints the former scenario is more likely, but we'll see.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
7,557
The only thing is that if he hasn't had enough time/opportunity to develop by the summer, his current value then might make him hard to trade. i.e. if the Celtics think much more highly of him than do the Pels, the Celtics probably throw in a different piece. Conversely, if he's shown something by July, and there's buzz around him in the league, you move him then to cash in on the extra expected value.
The TimeLord is exactly the type of young player that teams trading stars want as an add-on. Mostly because the spectacular plays are easy to market to the fans. He wouldn't be a centerpiece to be sure, but he will be a necessary component nonetheless.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
21,053
Melrose, MA
The TimeLord is exactly the type of young player that teams trading stars want as an add-on. Mostly because the spectacular plays are easy to market to the fans. He wouldn't be a centerpiece to be sure, but he will be a necessary component nonetheless.
Yep. I didn’t mean “significant piece” in the sense of being a centerpiece. I meant that if there’s an AD deal, he’s almost certainly headed the other way.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
31,086
Yep. I didn’t mean “significant piece” in the sense of being a centerpiece. I meant that if there’s an AD deal, he’s almost certainly headed the other way.
Mostly because New Orleans would be able to basically ask for whatever they want aside from Tatum/Kyrie and Ainge will basically say yes because you don’t let TL get in the way of AD.
 

chilidawg

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 22, 2015
1,432
I'd love to see TL in the Rookie game. Turn him loose and just try to block everything in site, that'd be worth watching.
 

RetractableRoof

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
2,240
Quincy, MA
I'm not sure how it would best happen, but I think he can be a difference maker come the playoffs - if he isn't a complete zero during half court offense times. There are a few teams that are so athletic that Baynes isn't effective against - and someone needs to spell Horford. To my eyes, last night against the Warriors for example Brad went to Theis instead of Baynes after Baynes was falling behind on the rotations early. He has a lot to learn - but I wonder if Williams can progress enough to give the Cs a 5 minute burst on either end of a quarter break to spell Horford twice a game (against playoff teams). He's athletic enough to switch out and still contest 3s with his wingspan - the question to me is whether or not he can grow enough to recognize the rotations enough to survive the 5 minutes against quality teams.