Protecting the Shields -- The Nick Cafardo Thread

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mabrowndog

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Christ, I'd rather spend a year listening to Shaughnessy's "Cleaning Out The Desk Drawer of the Sports Mind" columns narrated through a distorted megaphone by Gilbert Gottfried than be confronted with one more Sunday baseball notes column from Nick Cafardo. Every time I think it's impossible for him to produce tripe more awful than the week before, he proves me wrong.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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My favorite is when he comments on a trade, "of course, x team would have to get something comparable in return."

Yep. No shit. When people trade things, they give something away, and get something comparable in return. That's how trades work.
 

BosRedSox5

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I just can't believe the Globe pays him for this stuff. I mean, today's baseball notes column was ridiculous. Never mind him needing an editor or a fact checker, those are trifling compared to the fact that he wrote a potential trade chip column and named damn near every above average player in the league. That column basically looks like something a 13 year old cranked out on the Red Sox Fan Forum. Unbelievable.
 

wutang112878

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I just can't believe the Globe pays him for this stuff. I mean, today's baseball notes column was ridiculous. Never mind him needing an editor or a fact checker, those are trifling compared to the fact that he wrote a potential trade chip column and named damn near every above average player in the league. That column basically looks like something a 13 year old cranked out on the Red Sox Fan Forum. Unbelievable.
I would have been impressed if he listed all the players and had something meaningful to say, but listing that many guys with comment like 'doubt the sox move him' or 'might bring cheaper talent in return' I mean whats the point? Why not pick 5 pitchers and 5 hitters that could impact the Red Sox in some way and provide some relevant information not generalities on them. Like Gammons when he had his fastball, he would do a narrative version of this but it was MLB specific, and he would drop the facts into the column as if they were common knowledge.

When its clear that Nick isnt putting any effort in and his editors allow him to continually go on like this, it deserves criticism. Especially considering this was the same space once occupied by Gammons
 

DieHardSoxFan1

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It's a common refrain uttered around these parts, but it's worth mentioning again: this guy is stealing their money.

My favorite bit of analysis from this week's edition:

5. Gordon Beckham, 2B, White Sox — He seems to have a lot of upside despite a sophomore slump.
This isn't a truncated clip from a larger body of analysis. It's all he offered on Gordon Beckham.
 

wutang112878

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Am I the only one that didnt realize Nick had a twitter account? He had some real gems recently, in his classic style:

Victor Martinez agents here to chat with teams at GM meetings
You dont say! The agents for a FA are at the GM meeetings? Wow!

Wonder if Don Mattingly will hire Wilie Randolph on his coaching staff?
He really loves Apropos of nothing and random questions.
 

AquaNarc

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Granted he has nothing interesting or entertaining to say, but you know he's being forced to tweet.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Granted he has nothing interesting or entertaining to say, but you know he's being forced to tweet.
Really? It's not surprising if true. Massarotti was bitching about tweeting the other day, and I'm not sure why. All it is is a tool to stay in touch with readers and remain in their consciousness.

People who see technology as something scary or as a pain in the ass, are usually missing the big picture.
 

wutang112878

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Really? It's not surprising if true. Massarotti was bitching about tweeting the other day, and I'm not sure why. All it is is a tool to stay in touch with readers and remain in their consciousness.
Not sure if I didnt realize it before, or his attitude has changed since starting at TSH, but Mazz clearly doesnt enjoy everything that his job entails. On a consistent basis he admits he doesnt watch certain games which are bound to be discussed the next day on TSH. So I wonder if this is one more thing swaying his work/life balance in a direction he doesnt enjoy. But as a reporter and radio personality he should be smart enough to realize how important this tool is to his career.

And yes the Globe must be forcing all the sports writers to use twitter because there is @dan_shaughnessy and the only thing he uses it for is to provide a link to his columns which seems like a bit of a silent protest to me.
 

David Laurila

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...bitching about tweeting...People who see technology as something scary or as a pain in the ass, are usually missing the big picture.
When it comes to Twitter, I think the opposite is true. Twitter exists to give ultra-short bites to a segment of society that rarely bothers to read anything longer than a paragraph.

Being scared of technology does mean missing the big picture, but trending toward Twitter and away from substantive writing does so as well.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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When it comes to Twitter, I think the opposite is true. Twitter exists to give ultra-short bites to a segment of society that rarely bothers to read anything longer than a paragraph.

Being scared of technology does mean missing the big picture, but trending toward Twitter and away from substantive writing does so as well.
Untrue. When used successfully, Twitter is an immensely useful tool driving traffic to your site. People can pine and wish for the "good old days" as much as they want, but you can make a very, very strong argument that America has never been more literate than it is now. More people are reading more, writing more, exchanging ideas more these are all good things. The days when only a select few were allowed to express opinions are over and one needs to stand out from the crowd. An author or anyone in the public eye who has their hand in creative things (such as writing, music, comedy, etc) who doesn't use Twitter because it only allows them to write 140 characters is an ignorant fool.

I (nor do I think that anyone else) wasn't advocating for Twitter-only bursts of information. That's ludicrous. What I was advocating for is posting short notes, pieces picked up on the beat that don't fit into the next day's column, and to be honest Cafardos apropos of nothing are perfect throw aways for Tweets. Too bad he wastes ink and paper on them.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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When it comes to Twitter, I think the opposite is true. Twitter exists to give ultra-short bites to a segment of society that rarely bothers to read anything longer than a paragraph.

Being scared of technology does mean missing the big picture, but trending toward Twitter and away from substantive writing does so as well.
There are, of course, people who don't read much and who like to follow John Mayer on Twitter so they can learn about his newest haircut, but I don't think that's the majority of Twitter's loyal users. Most people I find on Twitter are using it as a personalized RSS feed, relying on the people in their network to deliver great links and pieces of information to them. They then often follow those links and read them quite thoroughly. The 140 characters is largely beside the point - it's an alert that there's something out there worth paying attention to.

If sometimes a 140-character post gives us new information or makes us laugh, that's a bonus, in my opinion.

Yes, some reporters use it to stake a claim to a breaking story, but that doesn't mean that's the best use. Theoretically, Cafardo spends all of his day surfing the internet and calling people about baseball. I'm sure he runs across interesting pieces of information all the time that don't fit anywhere or that he might think a baseball-rabid reader might care about. Why he wouldn't want to post those, to better establish a connection to his readers, is beyond me.

Okay, Victor's agents are there, no shit, but what do you know by being there that you couldn't know otherwise? How about, "Victor's agents with black ties today - must think they've got to get down to business." There are so many little interesting nuggets for those of us who wish we were in the hotel, too. Help us be there, Nick.
 

wutang112878

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As one of the more frequent Nick complainers here I want to be fair and give him credit for a good column today. Granted for all of us on this board he didnt tell us much that we didnt already know because we keep up to date on the happenings at the meetings, but it seems this column was geared towards the casual fan who needs a summary of the meetings that took place and he did it very well. Then at the very end he had this:

In 95 at-bats in which he hit the ball to the opposite field, Gonzalez batted .516 with 10 homers and 24 RBIs.
I am assuming those stats are specific to last year, and its some interesting analysis, kind of the stuff we want from Nick that he doesnt always deliver. Maybe if his workload was decreased and he didnt do the Notes column he could do a better job?
 

CoolPapaBellhorn

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I switched to D&C this morning for about 10 seconds when T&R was at commercial and heard Nick on the phone (it sounded like him, although I didn't stay long enough to hear someone identify him) using the "no pressure/bad record" argument against Felix Hernandez. The fact that Hernandez was joking around with Beltre during a game at Fenway was enough to convince him that he didn't "feel the pressure" or something. Not that we should be surprised, but, sigh...
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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I am assuming those stats are specific to last year, and its some interesting analysis, kind of the stuff we want from Nick that he doesnt always deliver. Maybe if his workload was decreased and he didnt do the Notes column he could do a better job?
I honestly read that last sentence as: "Maybe if he was deceased and didn't do the Notes column he could do a better job."

Made me laugh...
 

Rudi Fingers

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I switched to D&C this morning for about 10 seconds when T&R was at commercial and heard Nick on the phone (it sounded like him, although I didn't stay long enough to hear someone identify him) using the "no pressure/bad record" argument against Felix Hernandez. The fact that Hernandez was joking around with Beltre during a game at Fenway was enough to convince him that he didn't "feel the pressure" or something. Not that we should be surprised, but, sigh...
It was Nick.

Gut-wrenching lowlights:
- Nick is "old school" and would never have voted for King Felix for Cy Young
- Nick thinks that if Scutaro were traded, the Red Sox would have to "hold their nose" if they started Lowrie.

Only point that didn't make me want to poke an icepick through my eardrum:
- Nick thinks Curt Young may relate better to established pitchers than John Farrell. No facts to back his point up, other than "only Lester, Buchholz, and Bard improved under Farrell's care"
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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No facts to back his point up, other than "only Lester, Buchholz, and Bard improved under Farrell's care"
So basically the Sox' number one and two starters and their closer. Yeah, nice job Farrell. And we think that Cafardo steals money from his employer. Enjoy Toronto, asshole.
 

JimD

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I think it's time to change the title of this thread and give it a different look.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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God I hate the "no pressure" argument. If this lack of pressure makes pitching so easy, where are all the low-ERA Pirates pitchers? How about those studly Orioles pitchers?

Oh, wait, that's right: If having no pressure made you pitch well, then all the pitchers on bad-record teams would have great ERAs, which would make for a crazy roller coaster season where pitchers sucked, then had the pressure taken off, then surged into first place, then choked again - AACK, we couldn't take it.

It's so dumb it's hard to even think about.

There's nothing more infuriating than watching someone take a position because it's the one that fits with the persona they want to adopt, rather than the one they've actually thought through and think makes sense. Nick is "old school" (he thinks of himself that way because other older guys with stains on their shirts call themselves "old school," and it gives him a community to feel a part of) and therefore he knows he must value wins and "intangibles" and guys who come through in the clutch.

Actually considering new information and analysis? Actually thinking about quantifying what makes a great pitcher? What's the point of that?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Looks like someone got the courage to call his crush!

Nick: "So, uh, Johnny Damon why didn't you go to the GM meetings?"
Johnny: "And do my Rod Tidwill?"
Nick: "Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Seriously Johnny, I thought that you'd be there."

And then Damon tells him that the Red Sox are now a good spot. Fuck you.

Oh yeah, look for Jason Bay to be the Come Back Player of the Year next year. No reason. Just look for it.
 

TheYellowDart5

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Heyman is a world-class kissass who has never had a bad thing to say about a fellow writer publicly. His opinion is past worthless.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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This week's wasn't completely horrible. He at least interviewed a couple of guys on the record. But I'm just so tired of hearing about Adrian Gonzalez and his potential trade to the Red Sox, especially when the context is complete and utter crap. Cafardo has been beating that drum every week for a year or more and there's never - NEVER - any new information. It's just idle mention after idle mention about the Sox being interested and San Diego not being able to afford to keep him.

This week, there's a mention that they've had "a zillion" talks at this point, and that both sides know what it would take, but then we don't actually get any information on what it would take. Do some reporting, Nick. WHAT WOULD IT TAKE? That's what anonymous sources are for - information that no one else has.

Is there anyone on the planet that doesn't know the Red Sox would like to have Adrian Gonzalez? Then why keep repeating it when there's no new information?

But that's not the real problem. The real problem here is: Why in fuck is Justin Upton even in the same discussion? The guy isn't close to Gonzalez' caliber as a hitter.

Yet this is the way Cafardo leads his column:

A National League scout was asked a simple question: If you had only so many trade chips to use in the pursuit of a hitter, would you use them for Justin Upton or Adrian Gonzalez?

Without hesitation, the scout said, “Gonzo. He’s a much better hitter.’’
Can you imagine being that scout?

Nick: Hey, I've got a question for you, and don't worry, I won't use your name, so you can be completely honest.

Scout: Uh, well, okay, as long as I'm completely anonymous so that I could be one of, oh, say, 300 scouts, I'll do it. Lay it on me.

Nick: Okay, if you had only so many trade chips to use in the pursuit of a hitter, would you use them for Justin Upton or Adrian Gonzalez?

Scout: Hahahahahaha. Gonzo. He's a much better hitter. But what's the big question you want me to anonymously comment on?

Nick: Well, that was it.

Scout: That was it? Okay, well, Nick, if you had only so much money, would you spend it on some nice KC BBQ, or would get a McRibb?

Nick: Hmmm. I really like that McRibb.

Scout: Click.

Adrian Gonzalez is a completely elite hitter: from 2006-2010, five complete seasons, he's averaged 160 games, 32 HR, 100 RBI, and slash stats of 288/374/514 for an ops+ of 141.

Justin frigging Upton? Yeah, he's had three complete seasons in the majors, and averaged 126 games, 19 HR, 66 RBI, slash stats of 277/359/482 for an ops+ of 117. Oh, and he struck out 152 times in 130 games last year. Oh, yeah, and he led the league in RF errors in both 2008 and 2009, despite only playing in 100 games in RF in 2008. 11 errors in 100 outfield games!

I really don't understand why Justin Upton is even being discussed. Where does it come from?
 

Toe Nash

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I really don't understand why Justin Upton is even being discussed. Where does it come from?
There's a big thread in the main forum about it?

I think it's a fair question given Upton's future potential and his being under a cheap contract for the next 5 years, while Gonzalez has no guarantees past next year. Which Cafardo actually notes.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Sorry, meant to finish with "being discussed alongside Adrian Gonzalez."

Obviously, if you want to talk about whether Upton is a good fit for Boston and whether the DBacks are a good fit as a trading partner, that's valid. However, this question is flatly ridiculous: "If you had only so many trade chips to use in the pursuit of a hitter, would you use them for Justin Upton or Adrian Gonzalez?"

This is the type of absurd scenario Cafardo constructs all the time: Should you drive or fly to China? Let's get someone to anonymously comment: "Um, fly, obviously," said one former NL clubhouse attendent. But maybe it's not that simple!
 

Toe Nash

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Sorry, meant to finish with "being discussed alongside Adrian Gonzalez."

Obviously, if you want to talk about whether Upton is a good fit for Boston and whether the DBacks are a good fit as a trading partner, that's valid. However, this question is flatly ridiculous: "If you had only so many trade chips to use in the pursuit of a hitter, would you use them for Justin Upton or Adrian Gonzalez?"

This is the type of absurd scenario Cafardo constructs all the time: Should you drive or fly to China? Let's get someone to anonymously comment: "Um, fly, obviously," said one former NL clubhouse attendent. But maybe it's not that simple!
I'm not sure I see your point. The Red Sox have been rumored as being interested in both players. It would take some of their high-level prospects to get either. They only have so many high-level prospects. So I think Cafardo is right in asking the scout this question.

It seems like you think Gonzalez is the much more valuable commodity, but given their respective ages, contract statuses and positions I don't know if that's true.
 

Manramsclan

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I'm not sure I see your point. The Red Sox have been rumored as being interested in both players. It would take some of their high-level prospects to get either. They only have so many high-level prospects.
I think his point is that this is typical lazy Cafardo. He takes someone else's scoops, get a scout to talk to him about them and then says absolutely nothing.

They could presumably get both. Upton through trade and Gonzalez through free agency. Furthermore, is it really out of the realm of possibility that they could trade for both? I'm not saying that they would, but it is possible that acquiring one or the other via trade frees up other pieces to trade that would have had to be kept on the major league club or in the farm otherwise.
These could range from Lowrie to Ellsbury to Youk to Kalish to Rizzo etc. depending not only on the trade but also what other complimentary moves are made (say a Beltre signing for instance)

This is not really an either or scenario. They don't play the same position, are completely different types of players and they are at different stages in their careers. Add to that fact that Upton's salary won't approach even half of what Gonzalez will get on the open market and it doesn't really make sense to compare them at all.
 

mt8thsw9th

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I think his point is that this is typical lazy Cafardo.
No, the point was that Upton shouldn't even be discussed in the same light as Adrian Gonzalez, which is patently ridiculous given Upton's upside, contract status, ability to play a position that's a greater need long term to the team than first base, et cetera.

Nick wasn't "taking someone else's scoop", he was discussing a hot topic tied to the Red Sox. Did you not see this?

I really don't understand why Justin Upton is even being discussed. Where does it come from?
What's lazier, Nick discussing something that has garnered many pages on the main board, or mocking Nick by denigrating Upton as a ballplayer and asking where he got such an idea?
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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What's lazier, Nick discussing something that has garnered many pages on the main board, or mocking Nick by denigrating Upton as a ballplayer and asking where he got such an idea?
I dunno. Maybe laziest is not reading the two other posts in the thread. As in:

Sorry, meant to finish with "being discussed alongside Adrian Gonzalez."
Main board discussion or no main board discussion, I continue to maintain, for the reasons previously outlined, that this is an absurd scenario to set up:

"If you had only so many trade chips to use in the pursuit of a hitter, would you use them for Justin Upton or Adrian Gonzalez?"

mt8thsw9th: You would pick Upton?

To restate, again, discussing Justin Upton as a trade possibility=makes sense. Discussing Adrian Gonzalez as a trade possibility=makes sense. Discussing both trade possibilities in the context of a world where they would cost the same and they could only choose one and the Sox would choose Upton=doesn't make sense. It's not an either/or, they wouldn't cost the same, and it's a completely false theoretical that would elicit the exact same reaction Nick got when he posed it that way. Then, when he got that answer, Nick proceeded to flog the idea for another 500 words or so.
 

JohntheBaptist

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I would pick Upton and I wouldn't even think all that long on it.

You should consider not making fun of what other people write about baseball for a while. I'm not saying picking Gonzalez of the two is wrong, either. I'm saying dismissing the comparison as stupid shows me you're not really qualified to be getting high-and-mighty.

Discussing both trade possibilities in the context of a world where they would cost the same and they could only choose one and the Sox would choose Upton=doesn't make sense.
SoSH disagrees, pretty decidedly.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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John, et al, the main board is clearly the spot for the Gonzalez/Upton conversation, and I'll make my case on this over there. Fair enough. I'm genuinely surprised by the Upton love. I've watched him play. Looked at the numbers. Just can't for the life of me see him as a comparable player. But I'll admit I was a bit knee-jerk about it and wasn't completely considering position/contract, etc. I was focused on "in the pursuit of a hitter" and the price being the same, but maybe the price would, indeed, be the same. Again, I'm surprised.

Mea culpa, Nick Cafardo. I still think you're a bad reporter on baseball, but this isn't necessarily the case to for which I should go to the mattresses.
 

PBDWake

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Let's not let all this infighting get in the way of what's important: Nick Carfado is a terrible, terrible reporter, and his "Baseball Notes" should never be mentioned in the same breath as Peter Gammons, unless the phrase "shaming the legacy" is also included.
 

BellhornsBiatch

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Just had another sweet Nick Cafardo sighting. This time, Panera Bread in Plymouth MA 2 minutes ago. He and I caught eyes for a moment and probably put enough doubt in his mind to think I was a fan or maybe just a creepy guy, but as I approached to get my to-go order he was crestfallen when I didn't put my hand out to say "nick - big fan of your work." I wonder if he'll be wondering about that almost-interaction all day. He was dressed pretty daper, and looking sleek. The mall-walking must have paid off.
 

JimD

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You should have told him “Apropos of nothing, but I wonder if that guy over there in the brown jacket would give up his bear claw if he knew that Dunkin’ Donuts now has pancake bites” and walked away.
 

PBDWake

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You should have said something to him. I bet that you would have wound up in this week's paper.
A source close to Panera has informed me that the Bacon Turkey Bravo is a fantastic selection, and that teams needing an outfielder this offseason will look into Crawford, Werth, and several other names out there as options.
 

Granite Sox

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Nick was on Red Sox Hot Stove last night with Don O. and Gammons. After babbling for the umpteenth time about Gonzalez and asking Peter if he thought the Sox were going to go after Prince Fielder, Mr. Mall then commented that Josh Hamilton is the best first-to-third baserunner he's ever seen (seriously). Gammons was flummoxed, and had this blank stare as Nick was talking. Either that, or he stroked again. It was the last six months of The Suck all rolled up into one, two-minute pointless riff.
 

BoSox Rule

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You should have told him “Apropos of nothing, but I wonder if that guy over there in the brown jacket would give up his bear claw if he knew that Dunkin’ Donuts now has pancake bites” and walked away.
Amazing :lol:
 

Mo's OBP

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I thought this was a gem from today's Notes:

"3. Having had a chance recently to speak to Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, I liked his spunk"'
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Yeah, you really have to admire a man who killed baseball in Montreal, threatened to kill baseball in Miami and refuses to spend any cash.

What a super dude!
 
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