Poll: Rate Your Faith in the Red Sox Front Office

Rate Your Faith in the Red Sox Front Office


  • Total voters
    595

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
14,011
I voted 80%, a lot of this hate is unjustified.
-Betts is already showing signs of breaking down. 2 of his 3 worst SLG % years are the last. Missed 60 games the last 2 years too. You may very well be a solid player for a few more years, but walking away from that deal is slowly starting to look good.
319 games and 14.2 WAR in 2.5 seasons and 1 World Series win with LA. He has had some minor injuries and who knows how he will hold up down the road, but it's OK to acknowledge Mookie has still been fantastic with the Dodgers.

They also landed him on a massively deferred deal that is pretty reasonable in the context of the league. Fangraphs has Mookie as worth 105.8M over his time with the Dodgers and they have paid him only 14.5M/season each of the last 2 years given all the deferrals.

It's likely not to end well, like a lot of these super long contracts. But no need to pretend it's been anything other a massive win for the Dodgers to this point (Verdugo with 5.5 WAR and I assume the rest of the trade has been essentially zero).

-Given his decline in SLG, and inconsistent fielding giving Xander more than 4 years was/is foolish. Contracts are for future performance, not the past or sentimentality. Sometimes you have to know when to walk away even if it's cold hearted. Reverse tge situation, if Xander came from SD would you be happy with this signing/commitment? I know I'd be lukewarm at best.
The Red Sox made a comical offer in spring training, decided not to trade Xander during the season to get some value, and ended up making an offer that was 120M short (plus behind multiple teams).

Even if you don't like Xander the player, this sequence of events is nonsensical. At best, they BADLY misread the market. Not a great sign, especially for a big market team that should be in the mix for these high priced players.



John Henry Burner Account?
 

grepal

New Member
Jul 20, 2005
193
I voted 80%, a lot of this hate is unjustified.
-Betts is already showing signs of breaking down. 2 of his 3 worst SLG % years are the last. Missed 60 games the last 2 years too. You may very well be a solid player for a few more years, but walking away from that deal is slowly starting to look good.
-Given his decline in SLG, and inconsistent fielding giving Xander more than 4 years was/is foolish. Contracts are for future performance, not the past or sentimentality. Sometimes you have to know when to walk away even if it's cold hearted. Reverse tge situation, if Xander came from SD would you be happy with this signing/commitment? I know I'd be lukewarm at best.
-they're got a strong farm system and are always in the top 10 and usually top 5 for payroll.
-4 championships in the last 20 years, most in the game. Trust the process
None of the championships were built by Bloom. In his tenure he has let two players who were "face of the franchise" leave. He decided not to re-sign the NL homerun champ, and he has 1 playoff appearance and two last place finishes to his credit, that and a 2023 team that on paper is far and away the worse team in the division and one of the worse in the AL. He has built up the farm so there is potential there, the problem with potential in baseball is that most managers get fired when their roster is loaded with young players with "potential". I am very interested to see how he builds the 2023 Sox into a contender, something he stated is his goal and the goal of ownership.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,570
How much credit can you get for building up the farm when you’re finishing in last place and none of your picks have actually hit yet? Everyone points to Mayer, but that was obvious. People here were flipping out in real time.
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,712
I voted 80%. I believe there is a solid plan and the potential payoff is enormous. I'm willing to play this out longer and see where this goes, and I hope John Henry & Co. are willing to do so also.

I also think that this team getting within two games of the WS in '21 and taking down the Yankees in the process is not nearly getting enough credit or love in these parts. Prior to 2004, that would have been one of the high-water marks for my Red Sox fandom.
 

BringBackMo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,369
I’ve acknowledged my own concerns about how the handled X but the results of this flawed poll are ridiculous. I predict that some people are going to look pretty foolish. “THERE’S NO PLAN! IT’S NOT WORKING!” is completely unwarranted.

If you want to hang 2020 last place around Bloom’s neck and include it as evidence against him, fine. I think that’s absurd but fine.

2021 he made some astute moves that worked out and the team made the ALCS.

Heading into 2022, all the projection models showed the Sox, Yankees, Jays, and Rays within a couple of wins of each other. The big surprises for the season? The Yankees crazy good start, the Orioles crazy good leap, and the Sox crazy bad injury luck. They had a couple of stretches of health when they were on track to make the playoffs despite an awful start, everything then went to shit injury wise, and they wound up with 78 wins, basically a 500-ish club in the best division in baseball. All while seeing big seasons from important prospects in the minors. I don’t think OMG LAST PLACE! is at all a fair characterization of last season.

I now think it’s fair to criticize Bloom for not getting a Bogaerts extension done during the offseason. Speier’s reporting indicates that he was open to signing one for roughly what Story got, and the club obviously wanted him back. You had an icon who wanted to be here and a team that wanted him here and somehow he’s not here. That’s a major fail and Bloom owns that. That development creates some concerns that I didn’t have before. It showed me a blind spot that surprised me. But Bloom is a smart guy who can learn from that. Will he? We’re going to find out. But I’m not ready to bet against him.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,675
I’ve acknowledged my own concerns about how the handled X but the results of this flawed poll are ridiculous. I predict that some people are going to look pretty foolish. “THERE’S NO PLAN! IT’S NOT WORKING!” is completely unwarranted.

If you want to hang 2020 last place around Bloom’s neck and include it as evidence against him, fine. I think that’s absurd but fine.

2021 he made some astute moves that worked out and the team made the ALCS.

Heading into 2022, all the projection models showed the Sox, Yankees, Jays, and Rays within a couple of wins of each other. The big surprises for the season? The Yankees crazy good start, the Orioles crazy good leap, and the Sox crazy bad injury luck. They had a couple of stretches of health when they were on track to make the playoffs despite an awful start, everything then went to shit injury wise, and they wound up with 78 wins, basically a 500-ish club in the best division in baseball. All while seeing big seasons from important prospects in the minors. I don’t think OMG LAST PLACE! is at all a fair characterization of last season.

I now think it’s fair to criticize Bloom for not getting a Bogaerts extension done during the offseason. Speier’s reporting indicates that he was open to signing one for roughly what Story got, and the club obviously wanted him back. You had an icon who wanted to be here and a team that wanted him here and somehow he’s not here. That’s a major fail and Bloom owns that. That development creates some concerns that I didn’t have before. It showed me a blind spot that surprised me. But Bloom is a smart guy who can learn from that. Will he? We’re going to find out. But I’m not ready to bet against him.
You mention the 2021 astute moves. Are you going to address all the moves for the 2022 team that weren’t astute? He built a very poorly-constructed team in 2022, made some dumb trades before the season (JBJ), left key positions with terrible options (1B, RF), and then had an unproductive trade deadline that added a bunch of marginal players and arguably nothing of significance for the future.

The story of 2022 wasn’t the injuries. Many of those guys were injury risks to begin with. The story was that it was a very poorly built team without any margin for error. The injuries just made things worse but the season was already on a train to irrelevance, in large part to Chaim’s management of the roster.
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
You mention the 2021 astute moves. Are you going to address all the moves for the 2022 team that weren’t astute? He built a very poorly-constructed team in 2022, made some dumb trades before the season (JBJ), left key positions with terrible options (1B, RF), and then had an unproductive trade deadline that added a bunch of marginal players and arguably nothing of significance for the future.

The story of 2022 wasn’t the injuries. Many of those guys were injury risks to begin with. The story was that it was a very poorly built team without any margin for error. The injuries just made things worse but the season was already on a train to irrelevance, in large part to Chaim’s management of the roster.
How was depending on a first baseman who tore the cover off the ball the final few months of 21 considered a terrible option?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,702
I couldn’t vote on this- I guess 50% but the answers don’t line up with the why….
I think the blame really lies with Henry - he has diametrically opposed directions that I believe Bloom is trying to carry out as well as he can within those parameters. The parameters being:
- we’re not going over the LT
- compete every year
- rebuild into a perennial contender

I think it’s an almost impossible task in the Boston market.
 

bsan34

New Member
Jul 31, 2006
363
C'ville, VA / Hingham, MA
Putting the Celtics on the Red Sox timeline of the last 4 years would look something like: win 60+ games and the title this year, fire Brad Stevens, trade Tatum to the Clippers for Ivica Zubac, spend into the tax and finish in last place in the Atlantic, and then let Jaylen Brown walk in free agency.
 

BringBackMo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,369
You mention the 2021 astute moves. Are you going to address all the moves for the 2022 team that weren’t astute? He built a very poorly-constructed team in 2022, made some dumb trades before the season (JBJ), left key positions with terrible options (1B, RF), and then had an unproductive trade deadline that added a bunch of marginal players and arguably nothing of significance for the future.

The story of 2022 wasn’t the injuries. Many of those guys were injury risks to begin with. The story was that it was a very poorly built team without any margin for error. The injuries just made things worse but the season was already on a train to irrelevance, in large part to Chaim’s management of the roster.
I mean you can play this game all day long and cut these things however you like. Everyone knew they weren’t pushing their chips all in for 2022. It was stated repeatedly. They were trying to make the playoffs, continue the minor league rebuild, and stay under the tax.

In other words, the Sox were not trying to fill every hole last year. They calculated that they could make the playoffs without doing so. With better injury luck I think they would have. As for acquisitions, I’d say Wacha, Refsnyder, Pham, and McGuire worked out for the Sox last year. JBJ didn’t. I don’t think that’s a big deal at all. The guy the Sox traded for JBJ just got traded again, a year later, for a collection of cheap, meh prospects.

Go ahead and ding them for not getting under the cap. That’s fair. They very much wanted to make the playoffs and held onto JD and some others they could have moved. They didn’t do that and in retrospect they should have.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
4,683
I’ve acknowledged my own concerns about how the handled X but the results of this flawed poll are ridiculous. I predict that some people are going to look pretty foolish. “THERE’S NO PLAN! IT’S NOT WORKING!” is completely unwarranted.

If you want to hang 2020 last place around Bloom’s neck and include it as evidence against him, fine. I think that’s absurd but fine.

2021 he made some astute moves that worked out and the team made the ALCS.

Heading into 2022, all the projection models showed the Sox, Yankees, Jays, and Rays within a couple of wins of each other. The big surprises for the season? The Yankees crazy good start, the Orioles crazy good leap, and the Sox crazy bad injury luck. They had a couple of stretches of health when they were on track to make the playoffs despite an awful start, everything then went to shit injury wise, and they wound up with 78 wins, basically a 500-ish club in the best division in baseball. All while seeing big seasons from important prospects in the minors. I don’t think OMG LAST PLACE! is at all a fair characterization of last season.

I now think it’s fair to criticize Bloom for not getting a Bogaerts extension done during the offseason. Speier’s reporting indicates that he was open to signing one for roughly what Story got, and the club obviously wanted him back. You had an icon who wanted to be here and a team that wanted him here and somehow he’s not here. That’s a major fail and Bloom owns that. That development creates some concerns that I didn’t have before. It showed me a blind spot that surprised me. But Bloom is a smart guy who can learn from that. Will he? We’re going to find out. But I’m not ready to bet against him.
This is almost exactly where I’m at.

You mention the 2021 astute moves. Are you going to address all the moves for the 2022 team that weren’t astute? He built a very poorly-constructed team in 2022, made some dumb trades before the season (JBJ), left key positions with terrible options (1B, RF), and then had an unproductive trade deadline that added a bunch of marginal players and arguably nothing of significance for the future.

The story of 2022 wasn’t the injuries. Many of those guys were injury risks to begin with. The story was that it was a very poorly built team without any margin for error. The injuries just made things worse but the season was already on a train to irrelevance, in large part to Chaim’s management of the roster.
The moves for 2022 didn’t work, but they made sense.

The Renfroe trade was about making an opportunity for Duran. Most people on this board wanted Duran to get that opportunity, so Bloom needed to clear at least a strong-side platoon for him to get a shot.

That plan was obscured by several injuries, mostly to Kiké, who had a serious health scare. JBJ didn’t rebound and Duran was mostly bad anyway, so the plan proved flawed in execution.

But I think characterizing it as a dumb move ignores this subplot. The FO wanted to secure PAs for Duran, and Renfroe’s recuperation in 2021 had been so successful that he was no longer platoon-able. The trade wasn’t built on the premise that JBJ would outplay Renfroe. It wasn’t a challenge trade.

We could have just traded Duran (my preference), but a lot of people here were excited by him. We could have traded Kiké, but he had just put up a 5-bWAR season and Duran can’t play CF. We could have traded Verdugo, which in hindsight might have been the move. But we had three solid outfielders and a good 26-year-old outfield prospect, and we had to do something.
 
Last edited:

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,675
How was depending on a first baseman who tore the cover off the ball the final few months of 21 considered a terrible option?
Because overweighting a SSS at a key position for a clearly marginal player is generally not good business for a large market team.

To be more clear, I would have been fine with Dalbec as the 1b to someone else’s 1a. Maybe Chaim thought Casas was going to be up sooner. I guess he might have without the injury. But you still probably wanted a better option in place in the event that Dalbec’s hot Aug/Sep were a mirage (which he proved in 2022) and Casas wasn’t ready for whatever reason.
 
Last edited:

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,702
You mean the guy that had such a strong end to the 21 season that he barely played in the post season?
That’s been covered a million times already-
We had two DH’s that you needed to get in the lineup. As great asDalbec was at the end of ‘21…. Any manager knows you need Schwarber and JDM in the lineup somehow and avoid Schwarber in the OF
 

Ganthem

a ray of sunshine
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2022
914
Because overweighting a SSS at a key position for a clearly marginal player is generally not good business for a large market team.

To be more clear, I would have been fine with Dalbec as the 1b to someone else’s 1a. Maybe Chaim thought Casas was going to be up sooner. I guess he might have without the injury. But you still probably wanted a better option in place in the event that Dalbec’s hot Aug/Sep were a mirage (which he proved in 2022) and Casas wasn’t ready for whatever reason.
Because overweighting a SSS at a key position for a clearly marginal player is generally not good business for a large market team.

To be more clear, I would have been fine with Dalbec as the 1b to someone else’s 1a. Maybe Chaim thought Casas was going to be up sooner. I guess he might have without the injury. But you still probably wanted a better option in place in the event that Dalbec’s hot Aug/Sep were a mirage (which he proved in 2022) and Casas wasn’t ready for whatever reason.
Due to the gap between Triple A and the Majors being as large as it is, a period of suckage should be expected. Where you in favor of trading Bogey after he put up a 650 ops his first full season in the majors? The fact he put up a ops about 900 his final two months of the season was not unexpected or unusual for a prospect. Further declaring a player marginal should not happen until that player has at least 600 at bats. It would have been mismanagement of the highest level if Dalbec was not slotted in for first base the following season. As for him being benched because of the playoffs, they might have wanted a veteran due to the pressure of playing in the playoffs. Put another way there is no person running a baseball op currently who would have a young player that opsed over 900 the final two months of a season and they would say meh they are 1b. Lastly no backup first baseman was going to come here. Dalbec was starting at first and Casas was at the cusp of the majors. Bloom was not putting all his eggs in a Dalbec basket.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
I’m kind of surprised at how much the tone here has shifted, apparently all because the team didn’t sign Boagerts? Was that surprising? I dunno, but it seems like there were some folks wondering what the teams plan was, who was part of the core, what they were building towards for a while now, but they were…Eeyores, right? Isn’t that the term? And now? Where have all the Chaim stans gone?

There were a ton of folks all in on what the Sox were doing, I gotta assume there’s at least some who still believe? Talk to us!
Idk it's just boring at this point. I would happily talk about realistic options & realistic paths forward that actually make sense.

But people are perpetually miserable & don't understand how bad the Red Sox would be screwed if they actually did all the things people wanted.

Hopefully the people in charge are patient enough to see this come to fruition but in the meantime, what's the point in arguing? People are always going to cite other teams that are in a different point in the process. & if we were in a different, less miserable, market, we would probably be closer to that sustainability point than we are now.
 

Max Venerable

done galavanting around Lebanon
SoSH Member
Feb 27, 2002
1,187
Brooklyn, NY
Def seeing a plan here. Signings are going to be mid-tier by design until they feel that Mayer, Casas, Yorke are ready to contribute, and further testing their rotational depth. Letting X walk was the right move, they will be better off judging what talent they need in 2-3 years than assuming X is the right fit and still earning his keep. Yoshida, Jansen, et all are high upside, low risk signings that can be traded easily if they are not idea for the Sox' next phase. This is all about optionality, and turning the corner into the next phase. Devers could go either way, if they get good signs on the roster coming together this season they may try hard to extend him, if not they could deal him and take more chips into the minor league system.
 

phineas gage

New Member
Jan 2, 2009
96
Letting X walk was the right move
It has been stated before, but if that was the decision that the organization had made, why wasn't X dealt for maximum value before the deadline last season? The whole sequence of events does not suggest a well thought-out plan.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,698
Miami (oh, Miami!)
John Henry Burner Account?
I'm fascinated by the multiple 2005-9 era lurker accounts who stayed silent through the various world series victories, but have apparently roused themselves to condemn the state of entire org. in the immediate wake of getting outbid for Xander Bogaerts by an eleven year, $280M, contract.

Xander Bogaerts. Eleven years. $280M.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
It has been stated before, but if that was the decision that the organization had made, why wasn't X dealt for maximum value before the deadline last season? The whole sequence of events does not suggest a well thought-out plan.
Full no trade clause, didn't want to be traded.
 

soxin6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
7,040
Huntington Beach, CA
0%. Chaim Bloom is a charlatan who was propped up by the people working for him in Tampa. He brought none of those people with him since he was not allowed to and here you see the results. A fluke playoff run and otherwise abject misery. Oh and hitting the eject button on 2 of the most popular players for the franchise in the last 20 years. Soon to be 3 of.

The sooner this guy is gone and an actual baseball person put in his place, the better.
I could not agree more. People say that the Sox have been cheap, but that isn't exactly true. Bloom has spent money, but this team is objectively worse than when the season ended and they already finished in last place.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,702
It has been stated before, but if that was the decision that the organization had made, why wasn't X dealt for maximum value before the deadline last season? The whole sequence of events does not suggest a well thought-out plan.
Also responded to a dozen dozen times
 

phineas gage

New Member
Jan 2, 2009
96
Right--perhaps I should focus more on well thought-out posts.

X had the leverage then, but if the team had told him that it was moving in a different direction, maybe he would have accepted a deal.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
I could not agree more. People say that the Sox have been cheap, but that isn't exactly true. Bloom has spent money, but this team is objectively worse than when the season ended and they already finished in last place.
Thank jebus the season doesn't start for 4 months & the Red Sox have at least $40m to spend or this would be quasi-concerning.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,675
Due to the gap between Triple A and the Majors being as large as it is, a period of suckage should be expected. Where you in favor of trading Bogey after he put up a 650 ops his first full season in the majors? The fact he put up a ops about 900 his final two months of the season was not unexpected or unusual for a prospect. Further declaring a player marginal should not happen until that player has at least 600 at bats. It would have been mismanagement of the highest level if Dalbec was not slotted in for first base the following season. As for him being benched because of the playoffs, they might have wanted a veteran due to the pressure of playing in the playoffs. Put another way there is no person running a baseball op currently who would have a young player that opsed over 900 the final two months of a season and they would say meh they are 1b. Lastly no backup first baseman was going to come here. Dalbec was starting at first and Casas was at the cusp of the majors. Bloom was not putting all his eggs in a Dalbec basket.
Sorry, comparing 21 year-old Bogaerts to a 26 year-old Dalbec is just a terribly ineffective analogy. It’s ok - we can disagree on this point.
 

mikcou

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2007
932
Boston
Due to the gap between Triple A and the Majors being as large as it is, a period of suckage should be expected. Where you in favor of trading Bogey after he put up a 650 ops his first full season in the majors? The fact he put up a ops about 900 his final two months of the season was not unexpected or unusual for a prospect. Further declaring a player marginal should not happen until that player has at least 600 at bats. It would have been mismanagement of the highest level if Dalbec was not slotted in for first base the following season. As for him being benched because of the playoffs, they might have wanted a veteran due to the pressure of playing in the playoffs. Put another way there is no person running a baseball op currently who would have a young player that opsed over 900 the final two months of a season and they would say meh they are 1b. Lastly no backup first baseman was going to come here. Dalbec was starting at first and Casas was at the cusp of the majors. Bloom was not putting all his eggs in a Dalbec basket.
Bobby Dalbec had 550 plate appearances between 2020 and 2021 and struck out 35%+ of the time with a sub 10% walk rate at ages 25 and 26 - there are plenty of GMs that aren't making him part of their plans for anything. That is not a profile of a guy who is going to be a good hitter long term. Its hard to find any good hitters with 30%+ K rates and the ones to the extent they exist have elite walk rates and elite in game power (read 70+ not the 55-60 or so that Dalbec has) like an early career Joey Gallo, Chris Davis, or Mark Reynolds.

Its pretty hard to find good examples because generally guys who K 30% of the time are out of the league pretty quickly. The "high strikeout" guys of even 10-15 years ago (e.g., Adam Dunn) were in the mid to high 20s.

For what its worth, I think hes a pretty intriguing bench player (especially if he can play LF in addition to 1B and 3B) for a team that is lefty heavy when you can use him solely against lefty starters , but expecting him to be a good player after what happened in his first ~550 PAs is a bit strange.
 

Dewey'sCannon

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
874
Maryland
20%. If there is a plan, it’s poorly thought out and how it’s being implemented is even worse.

This job is too big for Bloom. Being so stunned about Bogaerts that you get tears welling in your eyes is awful. Not because I think he’s a wimp, but because he misread the market so bad he was literally flabbergasted.

That’s a problem.
I also voted 20% for generally the same reasons.

Until a few days ago, I was "ok" with the direction. What changed my mind? It wasn't the fact that the didn't bring Bogey back - the SD offer was not one they should have matched. But it was how it happened - the blatant misreading of the market, and the refusal to acknowledge that a six year deal was never going to get it done (absent maybe a ridiculously high AAV, which they also would never do). The "plan" to set a value and never pay more than that, is apparently fatally flawed because it does not reflect the market value for players. How can we have faith in the FO when they so clearly misjudged the market?

If this is the plan, then they will never be able to retain star players, and we'll be treated to a steady musical chairs of second-tier and fringe players who are "undervalued." Maybe we get lucky and hit on a few of these at the same time we have some young, cheap players up from the farm who also develop into stars (before we lose them). That sounds like the KC or Tampa model. It should not be the plan for the Boston Red Sox.I don't think that's what they intend, but their misreading of the market effectively makes it their plan. And based on Bloom's comments, I have no confidence in their ability or willingness to adjust to the market and pay what it takes to acquire elite, star-level talent.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
30,180
St John's, NL
Thank jebus the season doesn't start for 4 months & the Red Sox have at least $40m to spend or this would be quasi-concerning.
Serious question: do you think $40m is enough to fix this roster? Because I do not. We either need a SS or a 2B and we need probably 2 front line starters. We also probably need a catcher since I see no reason to think the Masturbator or Wong are ~100 game a season catchers. 40m is not enough to cover those bases.
 

Yaz4Ever

MemBer
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2004
11,335
MA-CA-RI-AZ-NC
I saw this ownership group bring us 4 World Championships. The first almost 40 years of my life were not nearly as fulfilling. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and believe there may, just may, be more to everything we all think we "know". I hated losing Betts as much as anyone did. Hate losing Xander as well, but I'm glad we didn't pay what San Diego did. Wish we could've locked him up sooner and avoided it all, but 4 rings in 18 years tells me this group wants to win and, sometimes, either through injuries or mistakes, things don't work out. I hated losing Burleson, Fisk, and Lynn, but the world didn't end then and won't now.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
Serious question: do you think $40m is enough to fix this roster? Because I do not. We either need a SS or a 2B and we need probably 2 front line starters. We also probably need a catcher since I see no reason to think the Masturbator or Wong are ~100 game a season catchers. 40m is not enough to cover those bases.
Yes & no. I think they can get creative with the $ & trades & field a competitive team. I think there will be a baseline of competence across the roster that wasn't there last year in terms of the sheer # of innings that were pitched by bad pitchers.

I'm much less considered about the McGuire/Wong tandem, too. Reese & Vaz both put up 1.6 fWAR last year - McGuire in 152 less plate appearances.

There's not a lot of proof of concept with Wong, yet, but he's still relatively young for a catcher & should be ready to handle the short side of a platoon.

Their bullpen looks significantly better than last year already & that was a big disaster area.

The rotation could be good as is. Bello greatly underperformed his peripherals & could be really good as early as this year. Sale & Paxton should be able to combine for anywhere between 20 & 50 pretty competent starts, which is 19 to 49 more than they had last season. & I have some faith in Whitlock.

I do think they need 1 more front of the rotation guy, but I'm confident they can add someone in their budget & then move Pivetta, maybe as part of a trade to the Padres for Kim.

Then they need one more bat but there are some pretty decent fungible bats that should be available on shorter deals like Justin Turner, Michael Brantley or even bringing back JD Martinez much cheaper.

I made a post in the 2023 thread yesterday about what to do with the last $40m, but there are lots of solid options, even if they want to extend Devers & stay under the threshold. & there's no real reason to think they'll stay under if some good opportunities come up.
 

mikeford

woolwich!
SoSH Member
Aug 6, 2006
30,180
St John's, NL
Sale & Paxton should be able to combine for anywhere between 20 & 50 pretty competent starts, which is 19 to 49 more than they had last season.
I'm sorry but this feels like whistling past the graveyard of the highest order. Why should they be able to combine for that? Why would you ever trust either of these people to remain even close to healthy?
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
I'm sorry but this feels like whistling past the graveyard of the highest order. Why should they be able to combine for that? Why would you ever trust either of these people to remain even close to healthy?
That’s why there is such a wide range. 20 combined starts doesn’t assume that both remain particularly healthy.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
I'm sorry but this feels like whistling past the graveyard of the highest order. Why should they be able to combine for that? Why would you ever trust either of these people to remain even close to healthy?
I think a minimum of 20 starts between 2 pitchers who AFAIK are currently healthy is a very reasonable expectation.

Paxton got shut down last season with a lat strain, which takes like a couple months maximum to recover from & Sale got shut down with a broken finger.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,864
How much credit can you get for building up the farm when you’re finishing in last place and none of your picks have actually hit yet? Everyone points to Mayer, but that was obvious. People here were flipping out in real time.
This.

It’s all wishcasting and it’s the only thing that we, as Red Sox fans, have left to hold on to.

But if you look at the facts, other than Whitlock, none of the prospects close to Major League ready have done anything. I’m not sure why there is 100% faith that his minor league prospects are going to be any different.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,675
This.

It’s all wishcasting and it’s the only thing that we, as Red Sox fans, have left to hold on to.

But if you look at the facts, other than Whitlock, none of the prospects close to Major League ready have done anything. I’m not sure why there is 100% faith that his minor league prospects are going to be any different.
Leaving Mayer aside because he was an obvious pick, who are Chaim’s guys that we should be dreaming on? Bello, Casas, and Rafaela were all before him, no?

Yorke? He suffered through an injury-plagued 2022 so who the hell knows what we have there. 2021 sure was promising.

Jordan? Kavadas? Romero? Bleis seems promising but is light years away from the bigs.

I’m just wondering why we should be assuming that the pipeline is flowing now that Chaim is here. At the very least, it seems like a TBD until we get some real upper minors production from “his” guys.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
We're finally getting the 1st Dombrowski prospects up & he got here in 2015...

We've improved from about 32nd to about 11th on farm system rankings. Could all the minor league system evaluators be wrong? I guess, maybe? To some extent the whole process is similar to the NFL Draft where you want to be able to throw more darts. We used to have very few darts & now we have lots of darts.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
24,864
Leaving Mayer aside because he was an obvious pick, who are Chaim’s guys that we should be dreaming on? Bello, Casas, and Rafaela were all before him, no?

Yorke? He suffered through an injury-plagued 2022 so who the hell knows what we have there. 2021 sure was promising.

Jordan? Kavadas? Romero? Bleis seems promising but is light years away from the bigs.

I’m just wondering why we should be assuming that the pipeline is flowing now that Chaim is here. At the very least, it seems like a TBD until we get some real upper minors production from “his” guys.
I think you and I are on the same page here but whenever someone brings up Bloom, the biggest praise is the very ambiguous, “he’s built up the farm system” and to your point, who, exactly besides Mayer?

This isn't a gotcha either, I’m legit curious.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
I'm fascinated by the multiple 2005-9 era lurker accounts who stayed silent through the various world series victories, but have apparently roused themselves to condemn the state of entire org. in the immediate wake of getting outbid for Xander Bogaerts by an eleven year, $280M, contract.

Xander Bogaerts. Eleven years. $280M.
Thank you for this!!! I'm well aware that there might be a few lurkers that feel a bit intimidate to post here for one reason or another, but yeah this.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
21,270
Maine
I think a minimum of 20 starts between 2 pitchers who AFAIK are currently healthy is a very reasonable expectation.

Paxton got shut down last season with a lat strain, which takes like a couple months maximum to recover from & Sale got shut down with a broken finger and a broken wrist.
Fixed that for you (though it was his right wrist so it really should have zero impact on his ability to throw a baseball). I'm with you. Sale had a year of bad luck. I have faith he can be healthy and contribute in some way next year. Paxton I'm less optimistic on but only because his injuries have actually been pitching related and it's been longer since he was on a big league mound. If he gives them no more than 10-15 healthy starts, I'll call that a success.

Past injuries are not predictive of future injuries. Unless we fear they aren't fully recovered from their past injuries, there's not a lot of reason to think they can't contribute something.
 

JM3

often quoted
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
16,728
Houck was drafted in '17.
Yeah, & he's pitched 146 ML innings. Casas & Bello are the other ones. We can give him credit for Bobby Dalbec, too, who I believe, along with Kyle Hart, are the only players from DD's 1st draft in 2016 to play for the Red Sox.

Kutter Crawford is the only other player from the '17 draft, & just Casas & Duran from '18.

Most of the intriguing holdovers are the international signings like Bello/Rafaela/Mata/Bonaci, who tend to take even longer to pan out.

My point is just that these things take time & the fact that Bloom doesn't have a string of his own guys contributing yet is not remotely surprising.
 

YTF

Member
SoSH Member
It has been stated before, but if that was the decision that the organization had made, why wasn't X dealt for maximum value before the deadline last season? The whole sequence of events does not suggest a well thought-out plan.
Doesn't the fact that they didn't trade him suggest that they were interested in keeping him? What was the plan that wasn't well thought out? There isn't a person on this board, pro or anti this move that has any sense of what the plan was.
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
6,013
"I knew there were going to be a number of hard decisions and there were going to be some things we’d do that we’re going to take some shit for. Bottom line is that this to me is about winning and I don’t care how much shit I take if it gets the organization where it needs to go"
I just didn't want to make them at the deadline because either trading Xander or JD to get assets and get below the luxury tax would have been too unpopular.

So now we are hurt in actually winning in 2023-2026 because we were over the cap in a year we finished last, didn't get any assets for JD, Eovaldi or X, will not get any assets in compensation and are hamstrung in signing free agents because the penalties due to the cap will be pretty significant.


Edit: Last year I still believed, thinking it was OK not to sign Schwarber, trade Renfroe and try Dalbec because we'd use the model of letting it play out to June to see if working, or if not, trade for a real RF, 1B and other holes. And because we were OK being over Cap, could spend lots of resources at that point.
Plan B seemed non-existent, and then that stupidity at the deadline didn't suggest any real approach or theory. Ending up just 2.6 mil over cap means you either failed to go over the cap enough to make a difference, or you failed to strip it down enough to get under.
 
Last edited:

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
91,463
Oregon
I just didn't want to make them at the deadline because either trading Xander or JD to get assets and get below the luxury tax would have been too unpopular.

So now we are hurt in actually winning in 2023-2026 because we were over the cap in a year we finished last, didn't get any assets for JD, Eovaldi or X, will not get any assets in compensation and are hamstrung in signing free agents because the penalties due to the cap will be pretty significant.
But at least he's not unpopular!