Because the Yankees and Dodgers have 15,000 more seats and can discount half of those enough to significantly lower their average ticket price.
Poll: Rate Your Faith in the Red Sox Front Office
- Thread starter Pozo the Clown
- Start date
Still better responses than what he gave, y'all should work as PR.
I'm too busy wondering why we don't trade Brad Peacock for Kim. Like how did that not happen? It was one of the 856 trades I proposed on a message board last year, and it would have worked! Do you not remember how brilliant I was for suggesting it?
We could have had the Dolans or mccourt as the current sox ownership.
I wonder if we would still be in a WS drought if they were the sox current owners
They have a system of beliefs, but I don't think they have a true plan. Under Bloom this team has gone 50-75% of the way on "plans". In the 2021 trade deadline the narrative after the Schwarber trade was, "this is a great first move, when they get a first baseman they'll be a World Series caliber team". In the 2022 trade deadline when they traded Vazquez the thought was, "ok, there's no way JD is sticking around. They're going to get under the luxury tax threshold and build towards 2023". This offseason, if the plan was always to let Xander go, why was there no middle infielder acquired? The Story injury is a gut punch but they weren't prepared for Xander to leave.
They extended Devers because they had to, and I think most of the people on these boards were pleasantly surprised. I think you could also argue that the individual signings they've made this offseason all make sense. But that all represents a system of beliefs, not a cohesive plan.
I'd like to think that's the case, but if it is indeed the case why haven't the acquired a middle infielder? Story was going to play 2B or SS, but he wasn't going to play both.
Well... they did, or close to it. He signed a 6/$120m deal in 2019, with a vesting option for a seventh year.
The complaint, really, is that they should have paid him enough at that time for him to drop the demand for an opt-out.
If they offered him Story's contract on the same day they signed Story, I bet he would have signed it.
Everyone blames Bloom for Xander not signing, but it was Dave Dombrowski who signed off on that contract with the opt out.
100 percent agree. 4 World Championships. I am much more confident the Red Sox win another Championship before the Patriots again.
Because they like Arroyo and don't believe that his past injury/illness luck is predictive of any future fragility.
I think this is accurate. If Devers played any other position, the whole saga might have gone more smoothly and the Sox may have been more willing to offer that contract early on.
X will leave shortstop, and likely soon. When he does, it’s easiest to project him shifting (back) to third, where he’d retain the most value. But I imagine the Sox couldn’t even really broach the subject of that position when negotiating with him, because his close friend already plays there, and he’s a guy they’ve gone to great lengths to help improve defensively partly so that they can justify spending even more money to keep around.
Can we please stop talking about a championship from 18 years ago that was brought mainly by talent attained from a previous ownership and by a general manager, who although was brought in by the current ownership, his intelligence hasn’t been replaced in the front office. Can we please look to the present and the future? Look forward, people. The 4 in 20/15 years thing is getting nauseating. The fans rightfully are pissed off at the prospects of 2023 and 2024, especially given the ticket/parking prices.
2004 was a generation ago.
2004 was a generation ago.
Curious how the parking has anything to do with the team itself, what do you want them to do about that? Also literally no one is able to adequately project the prospects for the 2024 season right now, we can barely, and can't even at all, project the 2023 season.
"Because they had to"? Christ. Most "had tos" FAs don't end up with market contracts ending before decrepitude.
"Pleasantly surprised"? Nope. I think the plurality of posters here expected bogaerts gone and devers signed. Mostly due to their respective ages and skills.
"A system of beliefs but not a cohesive plan" is quite the word salad of inscrutable criticism.
Although I understand Bloom hasn't come out and said THIS IS THE PLAN, I think it's clear that the Sox aren't really interested in signing up for the shitty back end FA years.
Chaim's opening speech was awful. Ok, teams that go down the other road end up rebuilding for half a decade... newsflash to Chaim 1) 2020. 2) 2021. 3) 2022. 4) 2023. We are entering year 4 of the rebuild. No one expects them to contend this year. Next year will be year 5. That is HALF A DECADE. So their approach of tearing it down did not accelerate the process at all.
I was starting to feel better about him. Now I'm pissed again all over.
I was starting to feel better about him. Now I'm pissed again all over.
We made the ALCS in 2021. If we’re calling this a rebuild, 2023 is year #2, no?
We were up 2-1 in the ALCS, up 2-1 in Game 4 at home, top of the 8th. Six outs to go up 3-1. Whitlock - who was our best pitcher that year - was pitching.
My point is 2021 wasn’t a rebuild year because we were 6 outs away from going 3-1 up in the ALCS.
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2021 no one expected them to contend either, and they got within 2 games of the World Series. Really, this "rebuild" hasn't really looked a lot different than the one Ben Cherington undertook 2012-2015. That one included three last place finishes and was followed by three straight division titles and a World Series win. I think the only difference now is the plan doesn't include throwing Bloom overboard for a Dombrowski type who will sell out for that title at the expense of the following five years.
I would call it a fluke run and not some master plan, but YMMV. It was a 2-1 game in the 8th but that doesn't change your point.
I don't think they have enough assets to sell out with to win a title. At least not right now. Maybe in 2 years. And if they're in that position, I'd probably make that tradeoff to be honest.
The real difference between now and then is the pipeline of talent. There's Mayer and then you have to squint to see who else might become an All Star type of player.
The big difference that rarely seems to get mentioned here is that the other four teams in the division have been executing incredibly well in recent years, so even though Bloom is pushing things in the right direction, it's arguable that he is still losing ground.
Is that really what happened with Dombrowski? I think the narrative is a little more complex than that. Several miserable drafts under Cherington hurt the team as much or more than any “sell out”, and the revitalization of the farm that Bloom has been lauded for is in part a result of development from guys signed when DD was here.
Hell, the 19 team that was a failure and got DD canned and the 21 “two games from the WS” Bloom squad were seperated by one win on the pythag.
It gets really difficult to assign credit when the org switches GM’s every four years.
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The rebuild unofficially started when Betts was traded. The only problem I have is ownership wanted to still remain competitive and wanted Bloom to play the middle game*
Short-term = GFIN, spend, spend ,trade farm and push the problem with roster/finance construction of team to the right. This is the category FSG operated in for 4 championships
Long term = Blow it up Astros style. Build up the farm with high draft picks. Focus on developing talent. You stink for years but have a quicker, higher caliber base of farm assets.
Medium Term = Thread the needle between short and long. Rest your finances, draft and focus on developing. Look for improvements around the edges by marginally winning trades, acquire lottery tickets and doesn’t over invest during this time. Limits depth and slower build up of minors. Hope for health and lightning in a bottle.
I think the Medium Term is the hardest way to go. I also think the last two years Bloom has done an admirable job in what I think became the most difficult GM job in sports due to the Betts trade.
2020 = Win. Covid + tank = Mayer. Season never happened.
2021 = Huge Win. Totally unexpected ALCS appearance and elimination of Yankees. Bloom made some great moves to make that happen.
2022 = Loss. Overall very bad due to poor JBJ trade and depth issues surfaced and exploded. But it is absolutely worth noting the team in early July was on 90+ win pace, in playoffs with Sale, potentially Paxton and the deadline coming.
Last two years the Sox for the first 75% were on a 90+ win pace. That’s what can happen with breaks and positive projections. Unfortunately the 25% happened most recently.
I think the FSG plan is clear as day -
- Reset finances and demand consistent result from yearly investment
- Build up the supporting infrastructure with young cost controlled players
- Do not over invest in free agency/extensions
- Field MLB team that competes for playoffs
The amount of fan rage towards FSG is disappointing. Kind of make me long for the ridiculous days when the same grouping of fans would spew hate toward Xander and Mookie for be greedy athletes taking the most money.
Short-term = GFIN, spend, spend ,trade farm and push the problem with roster/finance construction of team to the right. This is the category FSG operated in for 4 championships
Long term = Blow it up Astros style. Build up the farm with high draft picks. Focus on developing talent. You stink for years but have a quicker, higher caliber base of farm assets.
Medium Term = Thread the needle between short and long. Rest your finances, draft and focus on developing. Look for improvements around the edges by marginally winning trades, acquire lottery tickets and doesn’t over invest during this time. Limits depth and slower build up of minors. Hope for health and lightning in a bottle.
I think the Medium Term is the hardest way to go. I also think the last two years Bloom has done an admirable job in what I think became the most difficult GM job in sports due to the Betts trade.
2020 = Win. Covid + tank = Mayer. Season never happened.
2021 = Huge Win. Totally unexpected ALCS appearance and elimination of Yankees. Bloom made some great moves to make that happen.
2022 = Loss. Overall very bad due to poor JBJ trade and depth issues surfaced and exploded. But it is absolutely worth noting the team in early July was on 90+ win pace, in playoffs with Sale, potentially Paxton and the deadline coming.
Last two years the Sox for the first 75% were on a 90+ win pace. That’s what can happen with breaks and positive projections. Unfortunately the 25% happened most recently.
I think the FSG plan is clear as day -
- Reset finances and demand consistent result from yearly investment
- Build up the supporting infrastructure with young cost controlled players
- Do not over invest in free agency/extensions
- Field MLB team that competes for playoffs
The amount of fan rage towards FSG is disappointing. Kind of make me long for the ridiculous days when the same grouping of fans would spew hate toward Xander and Mookie for be greedy athletes taking the most money.
Kind of amazing that the Bloom defenders keep trotting out making the 2021 ALCS as if that should defend him from all criticism when Dombrowski got fired a mere ten months after actually winning the World Series, a move that most Bloom defenders seem to view in a very positive light.
"it's expensive to have baseball players" - John Henry
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/fans-make-their-voices-heard-uncomfortable-red-sox-winter-weekend
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-sox/fans-make-their-voices-heard-uncomfortable-red-sox-winter-weekend
Kind of amazing you ignore the trajectory of the 2019 team with regards to player health, current contractual commitments and future massive commitments. FSG didn’t and Dombrowski probably wanted no part of the new marching orders and was moved along.
Bloom was put in charge of a team in major trouble. In a division where the 4 other teams had a head start. Facts.
That’s not a Bloom defense. He took the job. His window of performance in closing. Jury is still out.
Theyre not the same things. And Bloom “defenders” are not Bloom adulators…
Meh, feels like an overreaction to a 2019 team that had a championship hangover, a bunch of injuries and underperformed, yet still finished in third place and was 17 games ahead of the Jays and 30 games ahead of the Orioles.
Agree that this is a big year for Bloom; year 4 and that’s how long the last two guys held the job.
The "selling out" to win by Dombrowski was signing Price and Martinez, and trading for Kimbrel and Sale, and essentially building a super team that ran roughshod over the league in 2018. Not saying that's a bad thing, but the ballooning of the payroll during that period has played a significant role in where the team ended up 2020-2022. And that wasn't sustainable, obviously, for a lot of reasons including the dried up prospect pipeline. The idea, I think, is to get back to that 2016-2018 level without having to rely on high priced free agents and trade acquisitions to maintain it. Supplement it, yes. But not to be the heart of it.
Meh, feels like an underreaction to all the bad contracts handed out & the fact that all of Cherington’s cost-controlled talent was about to hit free agency & cost more $ & there were no players ready to graduate from the minors for THREE MORE YEARS.
I don't think Red Sox management knew how beloved both Mookie and Xander were around here.
Of course they did. You can't keep every beloved baseball player in perpetuity, that's a failing model.
I'm not sure if I'm missing sarcasm, but of course they did. Just like they knew how beloved Pedro was, and Schilling was, and Damon was, and Manny was, etc. They also know that Devers and future stars will eventually be beloved as well.
Do you think John Henry doesn't read, or at least remain aware of, what's being written in his own newspaper? Do you think Cora and Bloom weren't asked about this in press conferences?
One more point about 2021: there is a difference between contending in a season, and building a contending team. 2021 and 2013 had a decent amount of similarities, and the biggest similarity might be that while both teams contended, neither was built to contend. The 2016-2019 Sox were built to contend. We’ll see about the 2023-2026 Sox. But I think it is indisputable that we are still in a rebuild. It is now year four of said rebuild. No one thinks they are a contender this year. So next year will be year five of the rebuild. Which is a half decade rebuild. Which is what Chaim said they were trying to avoid after 2019. So they failed at that goal in my opinion. And therefore Chaim has failed at his job.
I hope I am wrong and they win 100 games.
I hope I am wrong and they win 100 games.
cool little Infograph showing the combined overall standings from each division since Houston moved back to the AL
View: https://twitter.com/jaycuda/status/1628186618078150658?s=46&t=IqJJ_Jb5Tj0LulF8tCSXhQ
AL east is the only division that has 4 teams with a record above 500 during this time period.
We may need to stage an intervention for the AL central…. Those records are horrific
View: https://twitter.com/jaycuda/status/1628186618078150658?s=46&t=IqJJ_Jb5Tj0LulF8tCSXhQ
AL east is the only division that has 4 teams with a record above 500 during this time period.
We may need to stage an intervention for the AL central…. Those records are horrific
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I’m kind of shocked Cleveland has a better record than the Sox during this time- but yeah, AL Central.
The Royals have two World Series teams during this period and they’re still 90+ games under .500. That’s… hard to do.
that's the thing, I mean for all the shit we give the Rays, they have gone toe to toe with. the Sox and Yankees for years. You stick them in the AL central, and they may have run away with that division every damn year
Only five AL teams made it to the World Series during this window - Astros (4×), Red Sox (2×), Royals (2×), Indians and Rays.