Yep, its a good suggestion. A fully subsidized Clay has considerably more value to a non-contender that can pitch him and flip him to a contender in 4-5 starts. The 2017 $13MM team option also has value. He has much more trade value then Hill or a Wilkerson, AAAA type.
Hellickson's 107 ERA+ is 44 points better than the average ERA+ of our defacto #4-7 starters at the moment (Clay, SOS, Kelly, E-Rod). Those guys have averaged a 63.
If Kelly can some how pull his head (and shoulder) out he could be the wild card here, but yeah what you said.
In my mind it all depends on Sandoval. Does he return next season? If yes, does he play 3B or DH? I assume they'll be DH'ing him and sticking with Hanley and Shaw at their respective positions. On the other hand, perhaps we make this trade and ignore the logjam it might create next season. I'm okay with acquiring Rich Hill as a temporary band-aid fix to a lingering issue. Much worse deals could be had, I guess.
Besides the Lackey trade, I don't know another occasion that supports this narrative. Unless you're still bummed about losing Joel Pineiro?
While Quintana gave up 4 in 6 to the Braves in the same game. After Sale gave up 8 in 5 to the Braves yesterday.
I would think the Sox would be happier to eat $10M in sunk cost than to part with one of their top prospects - heck, in a world where a #12 pick wants more than $4M, $10M for ML help now seems like a bargain.
You should be pretty confident about that judgment. People have worked out average surplus values using BA rankings.
I'm not buying the rumor (if it is even a rumor). If this were the case, the Dodgers would have acquired Hill by now and released Butler. The A's know what they have in Hill and will want a legitimate prospect for him--the cost will be Devers or Kopech. I've argued before that Swihart is not a good fit for the A's. I think it'll be Devers or Kopech or he goes somewhere else. That's a high price to pay for Hill--I wouldn't make that trade if I'm the Red Sox.
Your going to need a roster spot for Butler. Unless Shaw is moved, who goes? Butler has played 1B in 20 games this season.
There is no way in hell I'm trading Devers or Kopech for a guy I'm not sure is even going to be able to finish the season.
He's also the most likely to replace Ortiz's production. I agree I'd rather see him traded than Moncada, NES and Espinoza, though.
How much of the bullpens problems are caused by the 4th and 5th starters? If you get a 4th starter who can go 6 innings with an era of 4 or even 4.50, it should help the bullpen immensely. After just 86 games, the sox have given 32 starts to 6 different pitchers not named Porcello, Wright or Price.
NO team carries just 11 pitchers any more, and a team with the back end of the rotation like the Red Sox have can't afford a shorthanded (by current standards) bullpen.
Agree with this.
Pomeranz has been awesome this year. I think he is going to be very difficult to acquire, much harder than Hill. He is young enough (27) and under team control for a few more seasons. If I'm the Padres, I'm not listening to the Red Sox offers for Pomeranz unless they bring Benintendi to the table.
International prospects from this period are much more likely to start contributing in the 2022-2024 range, three years turnaround for 16 and 17 year olds is pretty unlikely.
So, you want to trade some combination of a platoon infielder, three pitchers who have been lit up in the majors this season, and a AAAA outfielder for a youngish left-handed starting pitcher who made the all-star team?
The Pirates are currently carrying an 11-man staff, so...it does still happen. Is Layne really all that valuable to the team with a 49 RHH:53 LHH ratio? Is Noe Ramirez?
You (collective you, not YOU) can't use "it's just money" for every player and Butler is signed through next season as well. We're talking nearly $15 million left on his deal. I just don't see an opening for the guy and quite frankly he's too one dimensional for me.
Butler and Sandoval could, in theory, platoon at DH in 2017.
I agree, we need a new Napkin. Not someone who would be our first choice, not an attractive option, but one that will get the job done even if it's messy.
Um, you do understand that we are talking about adding him to a deal for a starting pitcher, right?
I realize that. But last I checked there were two question marks in the five man rotation. Even adding Hill (who's not someone that should be counted on to finish the year in the rotation even if he stays healthy), there's still the question of the fifth guy. Until that spot is resolved satisfactorily, I wouldn't want to shorten the bullpen in order to carry 5 bench players, which is what BP was originally suggesting as a way to fit Butler in.
At this point who would you suggest if we do not give up one, maybe two of the big four. You may have made many suggestions throughout this thread but it has become so lengthy I'd ask for you to mention them again. It is my impression that you feel a mid-level pitcher - a stead #3 who can give yon innings - is all that is needed. Am I right in assuming that you feel Price, Wright & Porcello with a little help can set the rotation on an even keel.
