Pats trade for OL Trent Brown

SeoulSoxFan

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Contract will be restructured according to the report linked.
One-year deal, the report says. I think it's a terrific move. Brown thrived under the NE structure/environment. He'd be looking to bounce back and seek another large deal in 2022.

I'm assuming this means moving Owenu to guard and have Wynn & Brown bookend the OL.

And I'd really, really would like Andrews back.
 

bsj

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One-year deal, the report says. I think it's a terrific move. Brown thrived under the NE structure/environment. He'd be looking to bounce back and seek another large deal in 2022.

I'm assuming this means moving Owenu to guard and have Wynn & Brown bookend the OL.

And I'd really, really would like Andrews back.
I am on board as long as that restructuring really gets that number down. I really don’t want such a big chunk of that avail cap off the board before we even sign a skill
Player
 

BaseballJones

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This allows Thuney to walk. I love Thuney but this is a really good way to keep the line strong while losing a wonderful player.

Sign Andrews and the line is really really good again. It didn’t say (or I just missed it) what the Pats would be giving up. Obviously if it’s a high draft pick this becomes less helpful. I’m guessing a third or fourth.
 

boca

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Will be interesting to see what compensation is going to the Raiders.
 

BigSoxFan

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Will be interesting to see what compensation is going to the Raiders.
Yeah, I’m most interested in this part. Great deal on the surface but we don’t have a lot of draft capital. Maybe a 4th?
 

jsinger121

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This allows Thuney to walk. I love Thuney but this is a really good way to keep the line strong while losing a wonderful player.

Sign Andrews and the line is really really good again. It didn’t say (or I just missed it) what the Pats would be giving up. Obviously if it’s a high draft pick this becomes less helpful. I’m guessing a third or fourth.
It shouldn’t be a 3rd or 4th either. He was on the verge of being released with a big contract. Anything more than a 5/6 round pick is an overpay.
 

Rusty13

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This allows Thuney to walk. I love Thuney but this is a really good way to keep the line strong while losing a wonderful player.

Sign Andrews and the line is really really good again. It didn’t say (or I just missed it) what the Pats would be giving up. Obviously if it’s a high draft pick this becomes less helpful. I’m guessing a third or fourth.
Is there draft pick compensation if Thuney walks?
 

boca

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Yeah, I’m most interested in this part. Great deal on the surface but we don’t have a lot of draft capital. Maybe a 4th?
You'd be hoping that a 4th would be the max. A 5th or a 6th would be great value.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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It shouldn’t be a 3rd or 4th either. He was on the verge of being released with a big contract. Anything more than a 5/6 round pick is an overpay.
Agree. I see a day 3 pick along with a BB pick-swap special.

Brown played just 5 games and there were talks of lackadaisical play even before that:

In addition, reports say Brown’s weight jumped to 400 pounds last season compared to his listed weight of 380 pounds.

That’s an issue.

Plus reports are also coming in that officials, coaches and players are questioning Brown’s commitment and love for the sport
https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/news/las-vegas-raiders-tackle-trent-brown-covid-19-injury-nfl-2019-pro-bowler
 
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BaseballJones

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Ok with all that news then yeah, I'd suspect not a whole lot for compensation. Still...the guy is good and I'm sure if he's agreeing to a reworked deal to come to NE, that means he REALLY wants to be here, which means he's probably pretty motivated. And a motivated Trent Brown is a great player. I can't get over just how frigging huge he is. Seeing him stand next to the other offensive linemen....he just dominates them size-wise. An absolute mountain of a human being.
 

lexrageorge

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Right now, he's my betting favorite for the "surprise OL retirement at the start of training camp" award. I assume the cost was low, so no problem with the deal, as he was really good in that one season here. But remains to be seen how much he'll actually contribute. Still better than overpaying for Thuney's decline years.
 

BigSoxFan

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Ok with all that news then yeah, I'd suspect not a whole lot for compensation. Still...the guy is good and I'm sure if he's agreeing to a reworked deal to come to NE, that means he REALLY wants to be here, which means he's probably pretty motivated. And a motivated Trent Brown is a great player. I can't get over just how frigging huge he is. Seeing him stand next to the other offensive linemen....he just dominates them size-wise. An absolute mountain of a human being.
Yeah, I really like this move. Almost zero acquisition cost it seems and tremendous upside. The OL is one Andrews signing away from being pretty much all set, which would allow draft capital to be spent elsewhere. Cannon now slides into the swing tackle role that is probably best for him at this stage of his career.

Thuney is a goner so had to find another body and we know what Brown can do when motivated.
 

Shelterdog

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Right now, he's my betting favorite for the "surprise OL retirement at the start of training camp" award. I assume the cost was low, so no problem with the deal, as he was really good in that one season here. But remains to be seen how much he'll actually contribute. Still better than overpaying for Thuney's decline years.
Why would you think Thunder is going to decline in his second contract? Maybe year four or five but he is in his absolute prime for the next two or three years
 

IdiotKicker

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They gave up nothing am I’m guessing the $11M is probably set up with a bunch of weekly roster bonuses that make up 20-30% of the deal. It’s a fantastic trade. You’ve got an extra tackle now w/ Wynn, Cannon returning, and Brown. Cannon being cut is $7M in cap savings and only a $2.5M cap hit, because I’m not sure any of these guys are taking a backup role even if there are legitimate concerns about each of them heading into the year.
 

Dduncan6er

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Not that they need it considering the amount of cap space they have, but cutting Cannon would free up money to re-sign Andrews and leave them with only slightly less cap room than they had going into the off season.
 

BaseballJones

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Not that they need it considering the amount of cap space they have, but cutting Cannon would free up money to re-sign Andrews and leave them with only slightly less cap room than they had going into the off season.
So losing Thuney and Cannon and a 2022 fifth for Brown and a 2022 seventh?

On the surface that seems like a losing proposition. And yet... I think it works.
 

BigSoxFan

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So losing Thuney and Cannon and a 2022 fifth for Brown and a 2022 seventh?

On the surface that seems like a losing proposition. And yet... I think it works.
They’d also get a 2022 comp pick for Thuney although that probably goes away at some point given the likely FA activity.
 

Harry Hooper

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Do they make offers to play center to both Thuney and Andrews and take the one who accepts first?
 

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Assuming Andrews re-signs, possible line combos, L to R:
  • Brown, Wynn, Andrews, Mason, Cannon (w/Onwenu as backup at all non-center positions plus being available as 6th OL)
  • Brown, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Wynn (w/Cannon as a cap cut and Herron as backup at all non-center positions)
  • Wynn, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Brown (w/Cannon as a cap cut and Herron as backup at all non-center positions)
They need to find a capable backup center to say nothing of what they would need to do if they don't sign Andrews.
 

Saints Rest

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Do they make offers to play center to both Thuney and Andrews and take the one who accepts first?
I think this trade is the end of Thuney, as I don't see him taking a contract that pays less than $15M/year with big signing bonus.

Andrews, OTOH, is far more likely to sign a cap-friendly deal. He only earned $3M last year (and a $3.4M cap hit). I bet something like 4 years for $30M gets it done. I don't think Thuney signs for anything less than 4/$50 and more like 4/$60.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Why would you think Thunder is going to decline in his second contract? Maybe year four or five but he is in his absolute prime for the next two or three years
Yeah, I don't get the retirement idea.

He wanted to get paid after his 1st stint with NE. He's restructuring his deal to go for free agency in 2022. All signs point to him working his butt off to have a good season with the Patriots.
 

BigJimEd

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Not that they need it considering the amount of cap space they have, but cutting Cannon would free up money to re-sign Andrews and leave them with only slightly less cap room than they had going into the off season.
Adding Brown and cutting Cannon seems like it would add $4 M against the cap rather than freeing up money. Cutting Cannon saves about 7M but Brown will cost around $11M depending on the structure of his contract. I am assuming they don't bother pushing much if any into next year.
 

chilidawg

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Assuming Andrews re-signs, possible line combos, L to R:
  • Brown, Wynn, Andrews, Mason, Cannon (w/Onwenu as backup at all non-center positions plus being available as 6th OL)
  • Brown, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Wynn (w/Cannon as a cap cut and Herron as backup at all non-center positions)
  • Wynn, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Brown (w/Cannon as a cap cut and Herron as backup at all non-center positions)
They need to find a capable backup center to say nothing of what they would need to do if they don't sign Andrews.
Having Brown and Onwenu on one side would be entertaining to say the least. Serious road graders.
 

Saints Rest

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Adding Brown and cutting Cannon seems like it would add $4 M against the cap rather than freeing up money. Cutting Cannon saves about 7M but Brown will cost around $11M depending on the structure of his contract. I am assuming they don't bother pushing much if any into next year.
Structure details will make a huge difference in this. I'm no cap expert but games played bonus could be largely NLTBE, as he only played 5 games last year. My guess is that base salary will be low, with games played bonuses for a large chunk, and then Pro Bowl and/or playoff run bonuses for some of it.
 

BaseballJones

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Well here's the thing: we've all said that they almost certainly cannot keep both Andrews and Thuney (and maybe neither), so they're gonna need quality replacements. Well, Brown sure is a hell of a quality replacement on the OL. They might still need another, but this is one way to fill a massive hole, at very very little acquisition cost, and honestly, not THAT big of a payroll cost, given the premium position he plays, and at the level he plays it.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Assuming Andrews re-signs, possible line combos, L to R:
  • Brown, Wynn, Andrews, Mason, Cannon (w/Onwenu as backup at all non-center positions plus being available as 6th OL)
  • Brown, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Wynn (w/Cannon as a cap cut and Herron as backup at all non-center positions)
  • Wynn, Onwenu, Andrews, Mason, Brown (w/Cannon as a cap cut and Herron as backup at all non-center positions)
They need to find a capable backup center to say nothing of what they would need to do if they don't sign Andrews.
Assuming Thuney is gone, I am praying for Andrews to return and hoping to keep Cannon.

Brown, as talented as he is, had a terrible year in 2020. His health is not guaranteed, especially as he battled lower-body issues throughout last season.

My best guess (hope?) at 2021-2022 OL:
  • LT: Wynn/Brown
  • LG: Onwenu
  • C: Andrews
  • RG: Mason
  • RT: Brown/Cannon
  • Backups: Cajuste, Herron, Cunningham, Ferentz, Martin, Toran, Reynolds (plus F.A. and rookies)
  • Not returning: Thuney, Eluemunor
That's a solid, solid group, especially if Cajuste finally becomes healthy enough to contribute.
 

chief1

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Adding Brown and cutting Cannon seems like it would add $4 M against the cap rather than freeing up money. Cutting Cannon saves about 7M but Brown will cost around $11M depending on the structure of his contract. I am assuming they don't bother pushing much if any into next year.
All incentive money would go on next years cap, when its expected to increase significantly.
An incentive laden contract for Brown is smart business. It will motivate him to lose weight and play well. Then, even if he leaves after one year, he will bring back a comp pick in return. Possibly a high one.
 

DJnVa

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So it took literally the first move (yes, it's not a FA, but the guy did have to agree to restructure) of offseason to dispel the "Pats will have to overpay guys. They won't want to play here".
 

BigJimEd

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All incentive money would go on next years cap, when its expected to increase significantly.
An incentive laden contract for Brown is smart business. It will motivate him to lose weight and play well. Then, even if he leaves after one year, he will bring back a comp pick in return. Possibly a high one.
Smart business sense from the Pats perspective but Brown is going to want some guarantee money. He needed something to get him to agree to restructure. I'm sure coming back to the Pats where he had success was a factor but worse case was he becomes a FA free to talk to anyone.
But I'd guess you guys are correct and there is a decent amount of incentives. Still I think any Brown/Cannon swap is close to a cap neutral move.
 

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So if I understand correctly, the Pats ten draft picks this year will look something like this:
  • 1st round pick (15th overall)
  • 2nd round pick (47th overall)
  • end of 3nd round compensatory pick (for TB12)
  • 4th round pick
  • end of 4th round compensatory pick (for Van Noy)
  • end of 4th round compensatory pick (for Collins)
  • 5th round pick
  • 6th round pick (via Dallas for Michael Bennett)
  • 6th round pick
  • 7th round pick
Or ranked by overall position (if my calculus about comp picks is correct -- I used overthgcap.com):
  • 15
  • 47
  • 97
  • 111
  • 130
  • 136
  • 151
  • 186
  • 191
  • 231
EDITED to correct my incorrect placement of the Brown trade in this draft (they are 2022 moves). Actually makes this year's draft stronger and eliminated the huge hole from 136-186.
 
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Jed Zeppelin

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Could there be a more Belichickean sequence of moves than trading a 3rd for someone, squeezing an elite SB season out of him, getting a 3rd rd comp pick for letting him gothen getting him back at a discount a couple years later for a low pick swap?

Need him healthy and in shape but you have to like the flexibility this provides as FA kicks off.
 

BaseballJones

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So if I understand correctly, the Pats ten draft picks this year will look something like this:
  • 1st round pick (15th overall)
  • 2nd round pick (47th overall)
  • end of 3nd round compensatory pick (for TB12)
  • 4th round pick
  • end of 4th round compensatory pick (for Van Noy)
  • end of 4th round compensatory pick (for Collins)
  • 5th round pick (traded to OAK for Trent Brown)
  • 6th round pick (via Dallas for Michael Bennett)
  • 6th round pick
  • 7th round pick
  • 7th round pick (from OAK as part of Trent Brown trade)
Or ranked by overall position (if my calculus about comp picks is correct -- I used overthgcap.com):
  • 15
  • 47
  • 97
  • 111
  • 130
  • 136
  • 186
  • 191
  • 231
  • 233
That's not correct. The trade involves 2022 draft picks, not 2021 draft picks.
 

BaseballJones

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Could there be a more Belichickean sequence of moves than trading a 3rd for someone, squeezing an elite SB season out of him, getting a 3rd rd comp pick for letting him gothen getting him back at a discount a couple years later for a low pick swap?
And then when he goes after 2021, getting another 3rd round comp pick for him. :cool:
 

tims4wins

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Could there be a more Belichickean sequence of moves than trading a 3rd for someone, squeezing an elite SB season out of him, getting a 3rd rd comp pick for letting him gothen getting him back at a discount a couple years later for a low pick swap?

Need him healthy and in shape but you have to like the flexibility this provides as FA kicks off.
Don't forget they got a 5th back along with Brown when they traded the 3rd rounder.