Pats Round1 Pick #17: CB Christian "The Steal" Gonzalez

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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I am not a draft guy at all, but love the excitement over this guy. The only thing I have to add is, the Patriots drafted a player born the same year as my oldest daughter. Jesus Christ I am old.
My youngest is about to graduate college. I feel you, brother.

But I am also excited about this pick. I really think they need OL help so I didn't love seeing them pass on blue-chip OT, but this kid is amazing and it's ridiculous he fell to the Pats.

Gonzalez
Jack Jones
Jonathan Jones

That's a really good core - and potentially an incredibly great core - at the corner position for years to come.
 

tims4wins

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Has Bill ever whiffed on a pick that went chalk with consensus such as this one? I can recall Wilfork, Ty Warren Dont'a Hightower, Chandler Jones, Nate Solder and Jerod Mayo as guys that received this kind of reaction and all of them were good players. I guess we at SoSH were pretty excited when Malcolm Brown fell to us and he was a nothing player.
Were any of Meriweather, Maroney, Jackson, or Wynn reaches?
 

tims4wins

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Not reaches, even McCourty went about where he was projected, but I don't recall the "we got our guy" feeling from them that those other picks I mentioned elicited from the fanbase.
That’s fair, although there was a ton of excitement in 2006 due to the early skill position picks
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Oh good. It wasn’t a dream. To trade back, screw the Jets over and still get Gonzalez was just masterful. Exactly what this secondary needs. Size. This kid is going to have a massive chip on his shoulder. I’m excited. Guessing this moves Mills to FS where I think he’s better suited anyway. This defense is going to be a handful.
 

Jimbodandy

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Has Bill ever whiffed on a pick that went chalk with consensus such as this one? I can recall Wilfork, Ty Warren Dont'a Hightower, Chandler Jones, Nate Solder and Jerod Mayo as guys that received this kind of reaction and all of them were good players. I guess we at SoSH were pretty excited when Malcolm Brown fell to us and he was a nothing player.
This is a great point.

We're talking about a guy with the measurables and athleticism to play starting corner reps in this league for a long time. High floor and high ceiling, which is what you want in your first rounders. Pencil him in.

Still plenty of picks to grab a tackle or two and fill the other holes. Bill just solved one glaring talent problem without squandering a bunch of capital.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
25,287
Has Bill ever whiffed on a pick that went chalk with consensus such as this one? I can recall Wilfork, Ty Warren Dont'a Hightower, Chandler Jones, Nate Solder and Jerod Mayo as guys that received this kind of reaction and all of them were good players. I guess we at SoSH were pretty excited when Malcolm Brown fell to us and he was a nothing player.
Malcom Brown wasn’t great but he certainly wasn’t a nothing player. He played 7 seasons for 3 teams (NE, NO, Jax) and played in 106 games (averaged 15 per year), starting 97 of them. He had a very solid career, was always a starter wherever he went, and was durable. Contributed to two SB titles. You could do a LOT worse with a late first round pick than him.
 

rodderick

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Malcom Brown wasn’t great but he certainly wasn’t a nothing player. He played 7 seasons for 3 teams (NE, NO, Jax) and played in 106 games (averaged 15 per year), starting 97 of them. He had a very solid career, was always a starter wherever he went, and was durable. Contributed to two SB titles. You could do a LOT worse with a late first round pick than him.
Nothing player doesn't equal awful, he was just a guy. Could do worse in the late first round, surely could do a whole lot better as well. Not remotely in the category of the other guys widely seen as steals I mentioned. Dude was out of the league at 28 with little injury history.
 

astrozombie

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Sep 12, 2022
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I'm usually in line to bash the Pats picks of late, but I am actually thrilled with this one. And to get an extra 4th rounder too? Awesome. I have no idea how 2 RBs and Forbes were drafted ahead him.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
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Nothing player doesn't equal awful, he was just a guy. Could do worse in the late first round, surely could do a whole lot better as well. Not remotely in the category of the other guys widely seen as steals I mentioned. Dude was out of the league at 28 with little injury history.
After a seven year career almost exclusively as a starter. Guys who start their entire careers aren’t JAGs. He’s not a star and never even sniffed a pro bowl. Definitely can do a lot better than him. But he was fine. Solid player for longer than most.

EDIT: Of course, no need to squabble about Malcom Brown of all people.
 
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astrozombie

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
491
Oh good. It wasn’t a dream. To trade back, screw the Jets over and still get Gonzalez was just masterful. Exactly what this secondary needs. Size. This kid is going to have a massive chip on his shoulder. I’m excited. Guessing this moves Mills to FS where I think he’s better suited anyway. This defense is going to be a handful.
Replacing Mills with Gonzalez is such a massive upgrade. I actually forgot they re-signed Mills and the whisper at the time was moving him to FS. I am totally okay with this.
 

astrozombie

New Member
Sep 12, 2022
491
Has Bill ever whiffed on a pick that went chalk with consensus such as this one? I can recall Wilfork, Ty Warren Dont'a Hightower, Chandler Jones, Nate Solder and Jerod Mayo as guys that received this kind of reaction and all of them were good players. I guess we at SoSH were pretty excited when Malcolm Brown fell to us and he was a nothing player.
This might be a bit revisionist, but I thought at the time Easley was considered a bit of a steal. I vaguely recall that Seattle traded back once the Pats picked him since that was the guy Seattle wanted.
 

tims4wins

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There was some brief discussion in the game thread, and obviously everyone is thrilled with the pick. but how does the trade itself grade out? The pick colors our perception of it. But strictly by the value charts:
Jimmy Johnson: 14 = 1,100, 17 = 950, 120 = 54, so 1,100 vs 1,004
Rich Hill: 14 = 325, 17 = 296, 120 = 24, so 325 vs 320

Seems like it was pretty fair. I wonder what was discussed. I'd have loved to 80th pick and then could have offered back something like 117 in return. But, overall, happy.
 

BigSoxFan

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Updated Pats draft pick inventory:

2nd Round (46)
3rd Round (76)
4th Round (107)
4th Round (117)
4th Round (120) - Gonzalez trade
4th Round (135) - Compensatory (JC Jackson)
6th Round (184)
6th Round (187)
6th Round (192)
6th Round (210)
7th Round (245)

Plenty of capital to move up in 2nd and 3rd rounds, as needed. Could also see them dealing a 4th for a 2024 3rd rounder. Will be interesting to see how this day unfolds.
 

JM3

often quoted
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Dec 14, 2019
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There was some brief discussion in the game thread, and obviously everyone is thrilled with the pick. but how does the trade itself grade out? The pick colors our perception of it. But strictly by the value charts:
Jimmy Johnson: 14 = 1,100, 17 = 950, 120 = 54, so 1,100 vs 1,004
Rich Hill: 14 = 325, 17 = 296, 120 = 24, so 325 vs 320

Seems like it was pretty fair. I wonder what was discussed. I'd have loved to 80th pick and then could have offered back something like 117 in return. But, overall, happy.
It was a concerningly low return, but they obviously had a plan & they still got their guy. I assume that wasn't a matter of wish casting.

I would also rather have 117 & 120 than 80.
 

tims4wins

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It was a concerningly low return, but they obviously had a plan & they still got their guy. I assume that wasn't a matter of wish casting.

I would also rather have 117 & 120 than 80.
I was just running the numbers, on the Rich Hill chart 107 + 117 or 120 (I forget) is worth around the 79th-80th pick. So it's more whether you'd rather have the 2 picks or the 1 pick. The Pats have so many picks that I'd probably prefer having just one better pick, but with that being said, they have a ton of ammo to do basically whatever they want tonight. E.g., 76 + 120 would get them into the end of the 2nd round.
 

JM3

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Dec 14, 2019
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I was just running the numbers, on the Rich Hill chart 107 + 117 or 120 (I forget) is worth around the 79th-80th pick. So it's more whether you'd rather have the 2 picks or the 1 pick. The Pats have so many picks that I'd probably prefer having just one better pick, but with that being said, they have a ton of ammo to do basically whatever they want tonight. E.g., 76 + 120 would get them into the end of the 2nd round.
I'd prefer to have the additional ammo to move to places they want at the time rather than folding that into the trade down.

But my eye test was wrong, at least per Hill chart & 80 beats 117 & 120 56 to 49.
 

SMU_Sox

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My youngest is about to graduate college. I feel you, brother.

But I am also excited about this pick. I really think they need OL help so I didn't love seeing them pass on blue-chip OT, but this kid is amazing and it's ridiculous he fell to the Pats.

Gonzalez
Jack Jones
Jonathan Jones

That's a really good core - and potentially an incredibly great core - at the corner position for years to come.
My youngest is going to be a junior next year in high school so I am not that far off. Hah. I hear you.

Respectfully who are you talking about as a blue-chip OT prospect because if it is Broderick Jones he is absolutely not a blue-chipper. Not even remotely close. If it isn't him then who do you think it was?

You can't be as underdeveloped in pass pro as Brod Jones is and be considered a blue-chipper. He is a high ceiling prospect but his floor is... well he could very easily bust.

Just watch him vs Missouri and LSU.

I totally get why folks love Broderick Jones. He is a top 20 guy for me but he has a lot of risk/reward.
 

Jimbodandy

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Updated Pats draft pick inventory:

2nd Round (46)
3rd Round (76)
4th Round (107)
4th Round (117)
4th Round (120) - Gonzalez trade
4th Round (135) - Compensatory (JC Jackson)
6th Round (184)
6th Round (187)
6th Round (192)
6th Round (210)
7th Round (245)

Plenty of capital to move up in 2nd and 3rd rounds, as needed. Could also see them dealing a 4th for a 2024 3rd rounder. Will be interesting to see how this day unfolds.
So what value chart are we using nowadays to start dreaming about moving up? Apparently the JJ chart is super outdated now.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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So what value chart are we using nowadays to start dreaming about moving up? Apparently the JJ chart is super outdated now.
There's another chart I saw online last night that had the Pats come out slightly ahead, so....who knows?
 

tims4wins

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The Rich Hill chart had the trade as nearly even (325 to 320), but I think BB still references the Johnson chart. The truth is probably somewhere in between
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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The Rich Hill chart had the trade as nearly even (325 to 320), but I think BB still references the Johnson chart. The truth is probably somewhere in between
It *seems* like the Pats got the guy they wanted at 17 that they were thinking of trading up to 10 or 11 and getting. And picked up a pick along the way.
 

tims4wins

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Awesome, thanks. So packaging 46 and 120 gets us in the neighborhood of 39, for example. Not sure that we'd do it (or Carolina), but it's something to think about before 7PM.
Right or alternatively 76 + 120 gets us to around the end of the 2nd round
 

j44thor

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It *seems* like the Pats got the guy they wanted at 17 that they were thinking of trading up to 10 or 11 and getting. And picked up a pick along the way.
And they screwed over the NYJ in the process. What I find most interesting is NE had multiple meetings with Brod Jones and opted to pass on him so clearly he wasn't their top choice.

I hope they sit tight at 46, maybe move up a couple spots at most if they really like someone at say 40-44 range for a very late pick. Then I hope they package some of those 4th rounders to get back into the 3rd rd where I think we might see a bit of a drop off in talent after the late 3rd, early 4th.
 

EL Jeffe

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Bruce Feldman opposing coaching intel:

“Dude’s a freak. I thought he had good awareness of the ball. He was very natural at everything he did. Was impressed even at Colorado. He just got better and better and took a big jump at Oregon. In his man-technique, he’s very physical, good at squeezing guys to the sideline.”

“He’s talented with his size and movement skills. I thought he lacked some technique. He has a receiver-type body. When the ball is in the air, he transitioned well. He’s gotta lock in and be more technique-based. For him to be that big, you want him to be more physical, but he’s not soft.”

“I was surprised to see that he was so high (in pre-draft media evaluations). I thought he was a late first (type). He’s big enough to play in the slot at nickel and he does have enough coverage skills outside to be intriguing. I wondered about his natural change of direction (COD). How is his short-area quickness? We didn’t have anyone who could really test him. Having that length and that straight-line speed obviously is helpful, but if you don’t have really good short-area quickness when you’re facing Justin Jefferson and Ja’Marr Chase, who are so good laterally in and out of change cuts and have more long speed … it’s getting scarier.”

“I thought he was a good player, but we did not think ‘Let’s not go at this guy.’ He played tight, got in bump-and-run, but he wasn’t one of those dominant guys, where we felt like we needed to stay away from him or motion him. He’s not Sauce Gardner. At the line of scrimmage, we thought we could beat him release-wise, and it’s not like we had a great receiving corps. He has the right measurables and the tools, you just were never wowed by the film.”

Bruce Feldman NFL DB coaches intel:

Defensive coordinator 1: “He probably has the best measurables in a corner to come out since maybe Jalen Ramsey. He’s not an absolute savage and doesn’t have that cornerback attitude, but the coaches at Oregon say he’s a no-brainer and is gonna work hard.”

Defensive backs coach 1: “I think he’s unbelievable. He’s so talented. The most ready-made guy out here. His technique is really sound.”

Defensive backs coach 2: “I’m a little fearful of his demeanor. He’s not really wired like a corner. Against his best competition, he struggled. Against Georgia, he struggled. Drake London the year before really got after him. I think he’s really good in press. The other thing about him is (that) the wide receiver appears covered all the time because he’s so big and long, and he does have great recovery speed. His judgment and winning at the top of the route isn’t as great, and you’ll see him misjudging balls a little when he’s in position. Not gonna be a physical tackler at all.”