Pats Draft Rd.1/15: QB Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones

ponch73

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The problem with comparing him to McCarron or McElroy is that those QBs date from a completely different approach to team-building and offense for Saban. Back then he wanted to rely on defense and the running game, and he wanted good game manager QBs. Eventually he adapted to the new wide-open offensive schemes and he needed true weapons at QB. Mac is a creature of a totally different era when it comes to Alabama QBs.
Maybe, maybe not. It’s kind of like saying we can’t compare Cam’s passing stats last year with Brady’s passing stats from 2003 because it was a different era with a different penalty enforcement regime. Sometimes, things are self-evident — Cam sucked as a passer in 2020 and Mac was the most prolific passer to play for Saban at Alabama.

Also, it’s also possible that Saban wanted his QB’s earlier in his tenure to be game managers because they were less talented and that he gave Mac the keys to a wide-open offensive scheme because he was more talented than many of his predecessors.

I’d argue that the table I posted is pretty informative because it showed how each QB performed at Alabama under Saban when they were put in a position to throw the ball. Completion percentage, for example, seems like an excellent basis for comparison. Frankly, wouldn’t one expect for the game manager QB’s to complete a higher percentage of their pass attempts than a QB like Mac in a wide open offensive scheme? But they didn’t.

Furthermore, Mac’s stats are also markedly better than Bama QB’s from the same “era” as you assert. His numbers are better than those of Tua and Hurts.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Maybe, maybe not. It’s kind of like saying we can’t compare Cam’s passing stats last year with Brady’s passing stats from 2003 because it was a different era with a different penalty enforcement regime. Sometimes, things are self-evident — Cam sucked as a passer in 2020 and Mac was the most prolific passer to play for Saban at Alabama.

Also, it’s also possible that Saban wanted his QB’s earlier in his tenure to be game managers because they were less talented and that he gave Mac the keys to a wide-open offensive scheme because he was more talented than many of his predecessors.

I’d argue that the table I posted is pretty informative because it showed how each QB performed at Alabama under Saban when they were put in a position to throw the ball. Completion percentage, for example, seems like an excellent basis for comparison. Frankly, wouldn’t one expect for the game manager QB’s to complete a higher percentage of their pass attempts than a QB like Mac in a wide open offensive scheme? But they didn’t.

Furthermore, Mac’s stats are also markedly better than Bama QB’s from the same “era” as you assert. His numbers are better than those of Tua and Hurts.
Is anyone really comparing Jones to those guys? Tua and maybe Hurts makes some sense, but the other guys just weren't NFL quality players, and everyone knew it at the time. Even the people who aren't high on Jones, if they are arguing pro/cons in good faith think he's at least a 3rd round type guy at the minimum (where Hurts went).
 

splendid splinter

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Maybe, maybe not. It’s kind of like saying we can’t compare Cam’s passing stats last year with Brady’s passing stats from 2003 because it was a different era with a different penalty enforcement regime. Sometimes, things are self-evident — Cam sucked as a passer in 2020 and Mac was the most prolific passer to play for Saban at Alabama.

Also, it’s also possible that Saban wanted his QB’s earlier in his tenure to be game managers because they were less talented and that he gave Mac the keys to a wide-open offensive scheme because he was more talented than many of his predecessors.

I’d argue that the table I posted is pretty informative because it showed how each QB performed at Alabama under Saban when they were put in a position to throw the ball. Completion percentage, for example, seems like an excellent basis for comparison. Frankly, wouldn’t one expect for the game manager QB’s to complete a higher percentage of their pass attempts than a QB like Mac in a wide open offensive scheme? But they didn’t.

Furthermore, Mac’s stats are also markedly better than Bama QB’s from the same “era” as you assert. His numbers are better than those of Tua and Hurts.
Sorry, I was inelegantly agreeing with you, Mac is a superior QB to guys like McElroy and McCarron (unless I misread your point.) As I recall Saban realized a few years ago that the old school ground and pound and stout defense formula he’d won so much with wasn’t going to work against the more explosive offenses that were becoming all the rage. So he adapted and brought in all sorts of new skill position weapons, including much better QBs to pilot his offense. I don’t think Bama was seen as a great school for QBs prior to Hurts/Tua/Mac. I think Saban wanted guys who wouldn’t get in the way of his traditional offensive gameplan, or he wasnt able to recruit the best to QB a run-heavy offense. The passing game was #3 behind defense and running. That’s not the case anymore, so equating Mac to McCarron or McElroy (not that you were doing that, but some obviously have) seems mistaken to me - they may all be largely pocket passers but the offenses they ran were night and day different, as were Saban’s expectations of them.
 
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Yeah you guys are both right. There’s a reason McCarron and McElroy were drafted where they were vs Tua, Hurts, and Jones. While I completely agree with the idea that the NFL hasn’t improved at QB evaluation, the traits you want in a top QB haven’t changed all that much - which is why the former were barely drafted and the latter were all top 50 picks or better.
 

TripleOT

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Everything I’ve seen and heard about Mac seems to indicate that he’s a perfect fit for the Patriots. Belichick knows more about stopping offenses than any person on the planet, and he believes in a game manager QB who doesn’t turn the ball over, can move the chains, and can make winning plays in crunch time.

BB moved on from Bledsoe when he felt that the callow Brady could do those three things. With every QB he has drafted, he’s never picked a QB with wheels. I don’t think he thinks that is an important trait for a QB in his system. If he did, he would have tweaked his offense last season and let Cam run RPOs until his legs fell off.

If Cam can’t game manage the ball control offense that probably will be featuring this year, Mac will be called on. I remember a QB 20 years ago who didn’t have a cannon arm and wasn’t mobile, and it wasn’t an issue. They put 2001 Brady into a position where he could succeed, by pounding the ball with Smith, dumping the ball to backs and TEs, and hitting clever but not game breaking WRs off run action. I don’t see any reason why they can’t do that with Mac.
 

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Everything I’ve seen and heard about Mac seems to indicate that he’s a perfect fit for the Patriots. Belichick knows more about stopping offenses than any person on the planet, and he believes in a game manager QB who doesn’t turn the ball over, can move the chains, and can make winning plays in crunch time.

BB moved on from Bledsoe when he felt that the callow Brady could do those three things. With every QB he has drafted, he’s never picked a QB with wheels. I don’t think he thinks that is an important trait for a QB in his system. If he did, he would have tweaked his offense last season and let Cam run RPOs until his legs fell off.

If Cam can’t game manage the ball control offense that probably will be featuring this year, Mac will be called on. I remember a QB 20 years ago who didn’t have a cannon arm and wasn’t mobile, and it wasn’t an issue. They put 2001 Brady into a position where he could succeed, by pounding the ball with Smith, dumping the ball to backs and TEs, and hitting clever but not game breaking WRs off run action. I don’t see any reason why they can’t do that with Mac.
i agree with all of this.
 

JM3

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Is anyone really comparing Jones to those guys? Tua and maybe Hurts makes some sense, but the other guys just weren't NFL quality players, and everyone knew it at the time. Even the people who aren't high on Jones, if they are arguing pro/cons in good faith think he's at least a 3rd round type guy at the minimum (where Hurts went).
Yes. He's very Brodie Croyleque (#85 overall in 2006, & not really).

Hurts went #53 overall (2nd round). I thought Hurts was drastically overdrafted, but we shall see.

But yeah, before Tua & Jones, the previous Bama QB taken in the 1st 2 rounds was Richard Todd @ #6 overall in 1976.

In his 3 years as a starter at Alabama he threw for a total of 1,642 yards with 16 TDs & 7 INTs with 1,254 yards rushing & 16 rushing TDs. It might have been a slightly different era.

In his 10 years in the NFL, 8 with the Jets, Todd went 48-59-1 with 124 TDs & 161 INTs on 54.3% passing.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yes. He's very Brodie Croyleque (#85 overall in 2006, & not really).

Hurts went #53 overall (2nd round). I thought Hurts was drastically overdrafted, but we shall see.

But yeah, before Tua & Jones, the previous Bama QB taken in the 1st 2 rounds was Richard Todd @ #6 overall in 1976.

In his 3 years as a starter at Alabama he threw for a total of 1,642 yards with 16 TDs & 7 INTs with 1,254 yards rushing & 16 rushing TDs. It might have been a slightly different era.

In his 10 years in the NFL, 8 with the Jets, Todd went 48-59-1 with 124 TDs & 161 INTs on 54.3% passing.
I forgot Hurts went 2nd for some reason I always think of him as having gone top of the 3rd. But yeah, I do think Tua/Hurts are the only comps. Even people down on Jones didn't think he wasn't a top 3 rounds guy, just that he wasn't a 1st rounder
 

nighthob

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I am eagerly awaiting Lacey Noonan's next series, A McCorkling to Remember.
 

Super Nomario

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Furthermore, Mac’s stats are also markedly better than Bama QB’s from the same “era” as you assert. His numbers are better than those of Tua and Hurts.
We should be careful with this, especially with respect to Tua. Tua and Mac arrived in the same recruiting class, and Tua was ahead of Mac the entire time - Mac redshirted, Tua was the backup (and famously won the National Championship game as a true freshman), Tua started over Mac as a sophomore, Tua started over Mac as a junior, and had better numbers in 2019 (and really, Tua's 2018 and 2019 numbers are pretty close to Mac's 2020 numbers). All of Mac's superior production is from his senior year, when Tua was already in the NFL. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up this year if he hadn't been so good a prospect he came out a year earlier.
 

BaseballJones

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That's all true. I suspect Tua would have put up crazy great numbers this past year with Alabama. But it's not in any way beyond rationality to think that Mac could simply have grown beyond Tua and become a better QB. Crazier things have happened.
 

Eddie Jurak

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We should be careful with this, especially with respect to Tua. Tua and Mac arrived in the same recruiting class, and Tua was ahead of Mac the entire time - Mac redshirted, Tua was the backup (and famously won the National Championship game as a true freshman), Tua started over Mac as a sophomore, Tua started over Mac as a junior, and had better numbers in 2019 (and really, Tua's 2018 and 2019 numbers are pretty close to Mac's 2020 numbers). All of Mac's superior production is from his senior year, when Tua was already in the NFL. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up this year if he hadn't been so good a prospect he came out a year earlier.
This is all well taken. On the plus side, Mac Jones (16 for 36) outrushed Tua (23 for 17) in 2019!

Was Mac ever a candidate to be Matt Casseled?
 

snowmanny

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We should be careful with this, especially with respect to Tua. Tua and Mac arrived in the same recruiting class, and Tua was ahead of Mac the entire time - Mac redshirted, Tua was the backup (and famously won the National Championship game as a true freshman), Tua started over Mac as a sophomore, Tua started over Mac as a junior, and had better numbers in 2019 (and really, Tua's 2018 and 2019 numbers are pretty close to Mac's 2020 numbers). All of Mac's superior production is from his senior year, when Tua was already in the NFL. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up this year if he hadn't been so good a prospect he came out a year earlier.
These are all good points and of course Tua was clearly the much more highly regarded prospect going into their respective drafts, being picked 5th instead of 15th and being the 2nd QB picked (although he’d already drop to third in the redraft) instead of the 5th.
 

simplyeric

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We should be careful with this, especially with respect to Tua. Tua and Mac arrived in the same recruiting class, and Tua was ahead of Mac the entire time - Mac redshirted, Tua was the backup (and famously won the National Championship game as a true freshman), Tua started over Mac as a sophomore, Tua started over Mac as a junior, and had better numbers in 2019 (and really, Tua's 2018 and 2019 numbers are pretty close to Mac's 2020 numbers). All of Mac's superior production is from his senior year, when Tua was already in the NFL. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up this year if he hadn't been so good a prospect he came out a year earlier.
Are you saying that Tua would have matured/developed in his senior year to put up better numbers than McCorkle did? It’s an interesting proposition, but think about it this way:
Tua, the full time starter, would have improved his numbers. McCorkle, the full time backup, did improve and develop, somehow without actually playing the live games, and stepped in and performed. First time out of the gate, and he produced at a level that Tua might have been able to produce at.
That’s worth noting.
 

ponch73

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We should be careful with this, especially with respect to Tua. Tua and Mac arrived in the same recruiting class, and Tua was ahead of Mac the entire time - Mac redshirted, Tua was the backup (and famously won the National Championship game as a true freshman), Tua started over Mac as a sophomore, Tua started over Mac as a junior, and had better numbers in 2019 (and really, Tua's 2018 and 2019 numbers are pretty close to Mac's 2020 numbers). All of Mac's superior production is from his senior year, when Tua was already in the NFL. Who knows what kind of numbers he could have put up this year if he hadn't been so good a prospect he came out a year earlier.
I grant you that Tua developed earlier than Mac did. But Tua’s 2018 and 2019 numbers against top 25 competition, while good, are not really pretty close to Mac’s 2020 numbers because Mac was truly superb in 2000. Maybe this is just a small sample size issue. Maybe not.

The key question — which I can’t definitively answer (although I have an opinion) — is how do they compare going forward.

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Cellar-Door

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I grant you that Tua developed earlier than Mac did. But Tua’s 2018 and 2019 numbers against top 25 competition, while good, are not really pretty close to Mac’s 2020 numbers because Mac was truly superb in 2000. Maybe this is just a small sample size issue. Maybe not.

The key question — which I can’t definitively answer (although I have an opinion) — is how do they compare going forward.

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WHile I think there is something to this... it's hard to make those kinds of 1 to 1 comparisons. ALA's supporting cast got better, and some of those teams got worse (UGA was a lot worse in 2020 than 2018, 2019 LSU was a monster compared to say 2020 Florida) or had weak defenses. Last year's rankings were kind of a mess given all the COVID issues (and wildly overrated some mediocre SEC teams who didn't get the opportunity to get smacked out of conference).
 

ponch73

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WHile I think there is something to this... it's hard to make those kinds of 1 to 1 comparisons. ALA's supporting cast got better, and some of those teams got worse (UGA was a lot worse in 2020 than 2018, 2019 LSU was a monster compared to say 2020 Florida) or had weak defenses. Last year's rankings were kind of a mess given all the COVID issues (and wildly overrated some mediocre SEC teams who didn't get the opportunity to get smacked out of conference).
I sincerely hope that I get to read a future version of this argument that has to caveat Mac’s 2022 NFL stats because he played a much easier schedule than Tua did in 2020 and 2021.
 

simplyeric

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I sincerely hope that I get to read a future version of this argument that has to caveat Mac’s 2022 NFL stats because he played a much easier schedule than Tua did in 2020 and 2021.
Right...It'll be that McCorkle had an easier schedule, including multiple games against Tua, which means that McCorkle isn't as good, because even though Tua's numbers were worse, he had to play against McCorkle's team.

( I know, defense/offense but stll)
 

nighthob

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Was Mac ever a candidate to be Matt Casseled?
It would have been hilarious if he had and the Patriots drafted him in the 7th round. The NFL would have broken if New England’s last pick in the draft turned out to be the QB of the future.
 

Brand Name

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Was Mac ever a candidate to be Matt Casseled?
Full disclosure, I watch a ton of SEC football every Saturday possible, Alabama is my team. So I do feel very secure in saying I’ve watched genuinely literally every snap of his on the Tide. The old joke used to be in 2018 specifically that he was on a handoff tour because he never got to really show his mettle, as essentially all his snaps that season were halfback draws or inside zone, albeit understandably so given he was behind both Tagovailoa and Hurts at that point.

The answer to the quoted question is kind of yes. The prevailing thought in Tuscaloosa was that about a year ago at this time was that Mac Jones was a bit of a placeholder QB, and it would be a matter of when, not if, superstar then-true freshman Bryce Young would take over under center last fall, kind of like a Trevor Lawrence replacing Kelly Bryant situation at Clemson in 2018.

I am not the biggest fan of this pick, but also think it’s absolutely understandable why it was made. I have some very serious concerns about how he understands some of the subtleties of ball placement relative to leverage (e.g. in vs. out, depending on the receiver’s dino stem). That’s apparent especially in the the early going of the Georgia 2020 film, but most notably the Auburn 2019 game. That game at Jordan-Hare was his lone true road game test in a hostile environment. He rushed, overcompensated, and wasn’t quite as studious with his decisions as he was in 2020. I evaluated him at the time as a see-it passer, as opposed to feel-it, meaning less intuitive and more reactionary.

Do like that he comes from a family of athletes though, always an intangible plus to me: Father, mother, sister all played college tennis, his brother Will was a college soccer player at Mercer.

In terms of tangible skills of what I saw last year, something I’ve not see discussed much is his deep game: Merely okay by arm strength, not incredible, probably caps in-game around 50 yards. However, while I do think some of the following speaks more to the talent of Smith, Leatherwood, Dickerson, Najee Harris, etc. around him, it can’t be discounted completely: He was killer on throws that resulted in 20+ yards last season: 34/58, 17 touchdowns to just 2 picks.
 

snowmanny

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Remember the time Brady was just the the placeholder QB between Griese and Henson?
Sorry, couldn’t resist; there are seemingly fifty stories lately where a college QB exceeded expectations to put up great numbers or shoot up in the draft. I think fan base first impression is not a great indicator of talent (not that BN was saying it was, it was there for the back story).

I appreciate Brand Name’s post and there is a lot of subtle detail in there that does give me pause. Especially re:the 2019 Auburn game.
 

EL Jeffe

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The Auburn 2019 Mac takes baffle me. It was his 3rd ever career start (and his first two were against a lousy Arkansas team and then against Western Carolina), against a legit Top 15 team that finished with the 17th ranked defense in the country...on the road in the most hostile environment possible.

Alabama puts up 45 points, and Mac hangs 336 yards and 4 TDs on them...and somehow this is used to show he doesn't have what it takes? Yes, he threw two picks, but one was a flukey play. Like, if 2019 Auburn is what you have to show me that Mac's not the one, then sign me up for Mac Jones. (And Auburn finished 17th in defense even after getting shredded by Alabama). I loved Mac's 2019 Auburn game. He just kept fighting and battling, putting the bad plays behind him and positioning the team for OT (until their kicker missed a 30 yard kick). That game showed me Mac was for real, not that he was just a guy.

It's also crazy to me that Mac's supporting cast is often the first thing people point to as to why he's not really a stud prospect. It's never held against Najee Harris; no one ever questions Najee running behind this stellar offensive line, or being in this great offensive system, or having those amazing WRs that keep defenders out of the box and spread out. No one questions Waddle or Smith having a stellar OL that gives them extra time to get open, a great running game that helps them play action and wears out the defense, exceptional play design, or having other top receivers to not allow the defense to key in on any single guy. All those guys are just individual studs with zero questions or qualifiers asked or needed. But Mac...nope. Mac's somehow the only Alabama player who is a product of the system and the supporting players around him because...reasons. It's completely wild to me.

Ps. There are crazy smart people on this board who don't see it the way i do, and that's fine. I'm often wrong (I had Stidham as a 1st round talent coming out of Auburn in 2019). To me, Mac was one of the easier evaluations.
 
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SMU_Sox

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Why we dragging poor Najee through the mud? I know this is the Mac Jones thread but I can separate Najee from his line. Also, Najee runs WR routes with WR precision. Najee has good vision behind the LOS and can execute any blocking scheme. He should be a quality starting RB who can do it all.
The issue with the Auburn game is one of reasons I liked Mac so much this year after closer review - I saw his anticipation and ball placement improve from 2019 to 2020. I saw him deal better with rolling coverages that changed post snap in 2020. You love to see that kind of growth from year to year.
I was watching JT Daniels vs Cincinnati last night because I’m already getting ready for the 2022 draft and I can tell you it’s night and day vs JT getting the ball out vs Mac. Mac makes throws before the guy breaks - I mean his level of anticipation was incredible. Some of the passes vs TAMU really stand out that way.
 

EL Jeffe

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I'm not trying to drag Najee, I think he's talented. I just find the narrative that Mac's prospect status was propped up by the system and supporting talent, but somehow not a single other member of said offense benefited from the same system and surrounding talent. I'd love to know how that works.
 

BaseballJones

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I'm not trying to drag Najee, I think he's talented. I just find the narrative that Mac's prospect status was propped up by the system and supporting talent, but somehow not a single other member of said offense benefited from the same system and surrounding talent. I'd love to know how that works.
This is a totally fair point. Maybe one reason, for example, that the receivers are so good is because Mac Jones is really good at delivering the ball to them on time and in stride.
 

jsinger121

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This is a totally fair point. Maybe one reason, for example, that the receivers are so good is because Mac Jones is really good at delivering the ball to them on time and in stride.
Agreed and the fact that Smith had an even better season with Mac than Tua should validate Mac as a legit QB. Even Waddle was on pace for a career year if not for the injuries. Najee Harris also had a better year too. Maybe Mac helped elevate the talent around him than Tua did.
 

SMU_Sox

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I think there are two positions that tend to be more dependent on surroundings then others: QB and RB. Running backs depend on blocking and the QB needs pass protection, scheme/play-calling, and people to catch his throws. You can’t really say Alex Leatherwood is a product of his system when his orbit is one man blocking on one assignment. His task almost solely depends on him. With Waddle and Smith you could say that the playcalling gave them some nice designed open looks. But you can also see when they best a guy with their route running 1:1. But the reasons people point to QB and RB and look at the surrounding situations vs OL, TE, and WR is because the situation around the QB and RB impacts them more. Sure, a WR on a team with no QB and a bad OC will be harder to evaluate. Josh Palmer out of Tennessee is a WR I thought was hurt by his situation. Any WR at Michigan... same thing. You could also have an OL in a scheme that makes him look better too. Same applies for a tight end: Brevin Jordan is a middle of the road athlete at tight end, couldn’t make contested catches or win 1:1 vs corners and didn’t block and yet was 83rd overall on Arif’s consensus big board. His schemed touches and wide open throws where he could focus on RAC made him look better than I’d argue he is.

Ultimately I was able to get past who Mac played with and how Sark was OC1 in college football last year because of how Mac executed it. You can’t take away the execution. Look the big five QBs and Trask all had star studded help. A lot of these players benefited from playing in good schools, with other good players, and under good coaches/play-callers. Who is saying that no one in Alabama benefited from the same graces that Mac did? Are you responding to people here? The national media?
 

DJnVa

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Agreed and the fact that Smith had an even better season with Mac than Tua should validate Mac as a legit QB. Even Waddle was on pace for a career year if not for the injuries. Najee Harris also had a better year too. Maybe Mac helped elevate the talent around him than Tua did.
Waddle and Smith were both asked which QB they'd want with them in the NFL--both said Mac.

Who knows how much of that was puffery because they had more recently played together, but it's there.
 

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Hmm, interesting that he seemed visibly shorter than Stidham: they're both listed as 6'3. Of all the worries or things to watch about Mac, height hadn't occurred to me.
 

Cellar-Door

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Hmm, interesting that he seemed visibly shorter than Stidham: they're both listed as 6'3. Of all the worries or things to watch about Mac, height hadn't occurred to me.
Interesting. Stidham was 6'2" and some change at the combine. Jones doesn't have a combine measurement but was 6'2.5" according to the Senior Bowl.
 

SMU_Sox

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Shorter than Stidham? How does that work? I don't think much of Curran as an analyst or a critical thinker. I find him to be a mediocre mind. RAS has Stid at 6023 and Mac at 6025. Senior Bowl measurements can vary a little bit vs combine but not usually for height. I would be shocked if there were a difference vs Curran saw it from a bad angle and is a dope.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Shorter than Stidham? How does that work? I don't think much of Curran as an analyst or a critical thinker. I find him to be a mediocre mind. RAS has Stid at 6023 and Mac at 6025. Senior Bowl measurements can vary a little bit vs combine but not usually for height. I would be shocked if there were a difference vs Curran saw it from a bad angle and is a dope.
He was using the Biden/Carter lens.
 

bsj

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I don’t understand. Why are people shocked at his height? He’s the same freaking height he was last year. There is, you know, video evidence?
 

lexrageorge

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I don’t understand. Why are people shocked at his height? He’s the same freaking height he was last year. There is, you know, video evidence?
Curran has become a classic "hot take" reporter; offers little nowadays in terms of useful analysis.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Bedard’s latest article has him plenty excited about what he saw from Jones, and thinks Jones may be starting a lot sooner than anyone, even himself, thought. The way the article reads, Jones could be there Week One.
 

BaseballJones

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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31523184/new-england-patriots-rookie-mac-jones-impressing-coaches-teammates-ota-workouts

Quarterback Mac Jones, the New England Patriots' first-round pick, has made a favorable first impression on his veteran teammates.

"He has a swag to him that I didn't know that he had at first," receiver Kendrick Bourne said Thursday. "He's out there confident, and that is what you need in a quarterback. Good energy, awesome guy, comes to work and you just can feel his energy and leadership already."

It goes on but it's a nice positive take on Mac.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Bedard’s latest article has him plenty excited about what he saw from Jones, and thinks Jones may be starting a lot sooner than anyone, even himself, thought. The way the article reads, Jones could be there Week One.
https://www.bostonsportsjournal.com/2021/05/27/content_87077

Bedard is in love.

There was some 11-on-11 work late in practice at half speed, and it was against the scout team offense playing defense (no real defense on the field) playing off cards. It looked like Josh McDaniels had the players working off a teaching progression in this practice where some of the things they worked on earlier between QBs and WRs, would come together here for a bit.

Newton got up and identified the Mike linebacker. Great. He did that last year, and it's the very basic part of this passing offense. He delivered a ball in the seam a little late, but it was complete.

Jones came up next ... he identified the Mike and also tagged on a slide by the offensive line.

Ok, now I'm paying attention. That's another step up.

Then, Jones and the receiver, Nelson Agholor, both identified what the defense was doing — a weakside blitz — they looked at each other, Agholor pointed.

Then Jones said, "I know."

The ball was snapped, Jones probably didn't even have the laces and fired the ball on the slant into wide-open space.

Jones saw what the defense was going to do, he and the receiver made a slight adjustment, and the Patriots exploited it for a big gain.

That's the freaking Patriots' passing offense.

If that's any indication, Jones is going to be part of this very, very soon.
 

brendan f

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Jan 13, 2019
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Maybe it's me, but this doesn't sound like a glowing endorsement of the incumbent by Belichick.

“Cam’s very professional...I’m sure that he’ll continue to work hard to do his best out there, like he’s always done for us. It’s never been anything but that since the day he’s been here.”
“Cam’s been here all the way through...he was here at the beginning and has been a consistent participant. Continues to give us the usual leadership and energy that he brings to the field and to the workouts and to practice.”

Lots of fluff about leadership and energy, nothing about being a good quarterback.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Maybe it's me, but this doesn't sound like a glowing endorsement of the incumbent by Belichick.

“Cam’s very professional...I’m sure that he’ll continue to work hard to do his best out there, like he’s always done for us. It’s never been anything but that since the day he’s been here.”
“Cam’s been here all the way through...he was here at the beginning and has been a consistent participant. Continues to give us the usual leadership and energy that he brings to the field and to the workouts and to practice.”

Lots of fluff about leadership and energy, nothing about being a good quarterback.
I think it's just you. It's not like he said anything about Mac being a "good quarterback" either.

Edit: To give a little more substance - all else being equal I guess it's good that most reporters seem to think Mac looks good, but "highly drafted rookie looks impressive in early workouts" is right up there with "he's in the best shape of his life" as more or less meaningless observations at this stage. Bedard being amazed that Mac sniffed out a blitz by the scout team offense playing defense is particularly dumb - isn't that also a "very basic part of the passing offense"?
 

Cellar-Door

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I think it's just you. It's not like he said anything about Mac being a "good quarterback" either.

Edit: To give a little more substance - all else being equal I guess it's good that most reporters seem to think Mac looks good, but "highly drafted rookie looks impressive in early workouts" is right up there with "he's in the best shape of his life" as more or less meaningless observations at this stage. Bedard being amazed that Mac sniffed out a blitz by the scout team offense playing defense is particularly dumb - isn't that also a "very basic part of the passing offense"?
Yeah, the Bedard quotes were silly. He makes it sound like Cam was missing things, but really Cam made the call he's supposed to, as did Mac (that's good) then Agholor tried to make sure the rook saw the blitz.... Agholor isn't going to make sure a 10+ year vet former MVP saw the blitz in camp. He did exactly what he's supposed to, pointed out the Mike, made the seam throw, on to the next one.

It's good that Mac looks like he knows what he's doing, but mostly this is selling smoke to the fanbase by making it seem like "wow I can't believe how much he knew" when really what I see there is a WR trying to help his rook QB, and the rook knowing what he was supposed to be seeing.
 

SMU_Sox

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Mac was very good at Bama knowing who was going to blitz and where there would be open space/lanes to throw to. I’m not reading much into this camp. This is learning camp. Still excited to see him look like he’s acclimating.
 

sodenj5

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I have no doubts about Bedard’s recounting of the events that unfolded, but it reads like fan fiction erotica.

Guys are thirsty for some good QB play after last year.
 
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DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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Curran says arm "not live" but other accounts say Jones wasn't asked to throw deep much, as they did some work on shorter throws with different defensive looks.

Lazar:

We didn’t see Jones push the ball downfield much, but the coaches tried throwing a few coverage wrinkles at him to see how he reacted. In one drill, the receivers ran the same route combination and the defense rotated through a variety of coverages. Jones appeared to make good decisions. During 7-on-7 drills, the defense threw a coverage disguise at Jones that led to a check down. The rookies’ best throw during 7s came over the middle with a little pump-fake to get the zone-dropping linebacker to bite, but Kristian Wilkerson dropped an on-target throw. He also set the MIKE and slid the protection to pick up a disguised blitz during a pass protection drill, then zipped a pass behind the blitz to Nelson Agholor, which was impressive. Again, there weren’t many downfield throws for Jones, but it was clear that the coaches wanted to make him read through different coverages, and he handled that well. It’s early, but Jones is progressing quickly.

Then, Perry says he throws a good deep ball (which I know is a slightly different thing than having a live arm).
 

tims4wins

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I mean him not having an A+ arm isn’t exactly news. But we’re also not talking about late career Chad Pennington either. I see that comparison and it is just dumb.
 

Cellar-Door

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Curran says arm "not live" but other accounts say Jones wasn't asked to throw deep much, as they did some work on shorter throws with different defensive looks.
Live arm is generally different than "can throw deep", it's usually used to talk about the zip on passes at all levels. Can he put a 10 yard out on a guy through a small window for example, or can he throw a 15 yard rope between defenders. Or even, how quick does the slant get on a guy and get him into his break.

I think everyone knows Jones doesn't have a "live arm" in that sense, it's a clear weakness, but plenty of guys can succeed without one, as long as he can get it to functioning NFL levels and he makes good decisions, just means he has less margin for error than some guys who can make a borderline read and just make up for it by launching a rocket.
 

sodenj5

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Live arm is generally different than "can throw deep", it's usually used to talk about the zip on passes at all levels. Can he put a 10 yard out on a guy through a small window for example, or can he throw a 15 yard rope between defenders. Or even, how quick does the slant get on a guy and get him into his break.

I think everyone knows Jones doesn't have a "live arm" in that sense, it's a clear weakness, but plenty of guys can succeed without one, as long as he can get it to functioning NFL levels and he makes good decisions, just means he has less margin for error than some guys who can make a borderline read and just make up for it by launching a rocket.
This is pretty much spot on. Mac’s mental processing needs to be top notch because he needs to do the little things correctly to succeed vs seeing a guy open and then ripping it into a closing window.

His deep ball hangs at times and can be off target a bit, but it doesn’t mean he can’t throw it deep. He will be fine.