Patriot Force One

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Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Aug 15, 2006
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You didn’t get the memo? Anyone who supports Trump is incapable of doing anything good. Trump Derangement Syndrome in action.
Supporting 45 is damning in itself. 45 and his republican cohorts are in bed with the NRA so it’s hard to not call out Kraft for being a supporter of his given who he’s helping. The gesture was nice so don’t get me wrong and maybe he’s reflected on his mistake in 2016-2017. Who knows? Hopefully most of the owners in the NFL have followed suit and also regret supporting 45.

But yes this is a pretty nice gesture.
 

Red Averages

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Apr 20, 2003
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Holy hell. The proliferation of politics into every thread on this board is getting frustrating. Inevitably someone brings it up, multiple people come in to tell that person it's dumb, someone else (in this case me) points it out and the thread is ruined. (Thread) Terrorists win again.
 

Spelunker

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Jul 17, 2005
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Can we keep the V&N in that area? You are already attacking him there, there is really no need for it in both places.
You'll notice that Jose said that after someone sarcastically pre-complained about people complaining about Kraft's politics. Jose isn't who brought this up: jump down the right throat at least.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
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Jul 18, 2005
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Holy hell. The proliferation of politics into every thread on this board is getting frustrating. Inevitably someone brings it up, multiple people come in to tell that person it's dumb, someone else (in this case me) points it out and the thread is ruined. (Thread) Terrorists win again.
Yeah. But at the same time, the NFL in general has done a pretty bang-up job at bringing politics into football.

I think we can all acknowledge that lending the Patriots plane is a nice gesture and a good thing. But given Kraft’s history, it’s equally fair to wonder where he’s coming from. He’s a public figure, it comes with the territory.
 

Red Averages

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Great - and that's one of the reasons NFL viewership continues to fall. We can't even have things meant to get us away from every day life (SPORTS), without people jumping in to change the narrative because they are so consumed with politics in their own mind. I generally stay away from politics because of what it does to people. I certainly don't watch sports for the opportunity to have a political debate anytime anything associated with a sports team or member of the sports team occurs so that I can pivot the conversation. I watch it to enjoy the sport and get away from everyday life. I definitely didn't jump into a within a Patriots forum, let alone a thread about a Patriots team plane to dive into politics yet again. It's incredibly frustrating. I wish it was similar to steroids where there were escalating temporary bans before a permanent ban.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
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Ok. What does lending the plane in the off-season to kids going to a march about gun control have to do with sports?

The Patriots as a team and the Kraft ownership are distinct things.
 
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joeflah

New Member
Feb 1, 2015
57
Holy hell. The proliferation of politics into every thread on this board is getting frustrating. Inevitably someone brings it up, multiple people come in to tell that person it's dumb, someone else (in this case me) points it out and the thread is ruined. (Thread) Terrorists win again.
Kids being slaughtered in their classrooms isn’t politics! Were you home schooled?
 

SumnerH

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And when was it that we first heard about bump stocks? The day before last week? The 38th of February?
Exactly how long is SO FAR?
Huh? Even if you were oblivious to them beforehand, they've been pretty much the #1 thing discussed in the gun control debate since the Vegas shooting last October. They were all over the media and debated heavily in Congress and at the state level; even the NRA expressed at least some support for regulating them:

What are the 'bump stocks' on the Las Vegas shooter's guns? [CNN]https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/us/bump-stock-las-vegas-shooting/index.html
NRA support for restricting ‘bump stocks’ reflects impact of Las Vegas massacre [Washington Post]
'Bump stock' ban opposed by gun owners group, despite NRA stance [Fox News]
What Is a Bump Stock and How Does It Work? [NY Times]

There were several proposed bans 5-6 months ago that stalled out in Congress. [CBS]

And some bans enacted by individual states, e.g. in Massachusetts [NPR]
 

jose melendez

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It’s great that he’s doing it and all, but this is pretty clearly a pr stunt. Post Myra bob kraft just isn’t a very good person. Most nfl owners, maybe all, aren’t.
 

bankshot1

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Kraft's doing a good thing.

His friendship with Trump is what it is, and I believe based on Trump's support for Kraft during a difficult time in his life. However, I may be misinformed. But I'm less than convinced that Kraft shares a like world view with Donald on much of anything, other than perhaps banging trophy gfs.
 

RetractableRoof

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You'll notice that Jose said that after someone sarcastically pre-complained about people complaining about Kraft's politics. Jose isn't who brought this up: jump down the right throat at least.
I may not have quoted the very first transgressor, mea culpa. On the other hand, by no stretch was my request jumping down anyone's throat.
 

Red Averages

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Apr 20, 2003
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It’s great that he’s doing it and all, but this is pretty clearly a pr stunt. Post Myra bob kraft just isn’t a very good person. Most nfl owners, maybe all, aren’t.
Do you have anything to actually back up such a bold statement, or are you basing this off of who he considers friends? Did I miss him getting arrested? Are there articles about all of the owners getting arrested or harassing people? If not, what are you basing these claims on?

Back to my original point, in my opinion, if you cannot back up claims like this, you deserve a timeout for ruining a thread and spreading false claims. Clearly I have no authority to do that, but just sharing an opinion, which seems to be more credible as I have actual evidence to support it.
 

Bosox1528

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Dec 22, 2017
178
Yup, that's a totally fair characterization of what Jose said.
Perhaps not, but immediately after he said that, Tyrone Biggums went and proved his point.

It's honestly difficult for me to tell if he's trolling on politics or not. Because every sentence he seems to write on politics reads as a total cariacture of left wing viewpoints. If he's actually being serious then his political views are pretty hilarious
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Aug 15, 2006
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Perhaps not, but immediately after he said that, Tyrone Biggums went and proved his point.

It's honestly difficult for me to tell if he's trolling on politics or not. Because every sentence he seems to write on politics reads as a total cariacture of left wing viewpoints. If he's actually being serious then his political views are pretty hilarious
Come on. Who would possibly run a year long trolling in regards to politics in this climate? Just for a few cheap laughs?
 

kenneycb

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Dec 2, 2006
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Tuukka's refugee camp
Perhaps not, but immediately after he said that, Tyrone Biggums went and proved his point.

It's honestly difficult for me to tell if he's trolling on politics or not. Because every sentence he seems to write on politics reads as a total cariacture of left wing viewpoints. If he's actually being serious then his political views are pretty hilarious
Or maybe he has different opinions on different issues some that align with one party, some that align with another party. Crazy that people can be complex beings but bear with me here.
 

Gambler7

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jose melendez

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The thread is a hagiography to the team plane. Literally. It deserves to be ruined. It was fine as a ain’t this cool, but when it turns in to look how great the pats owners are, it opens itself up to criticism.

On most nfl owners being awful, my evidence is the way they’ve treated their employees health for decades, the way they’ve fed at he public trough, the way they covered up abuses by their players and colleagues. Maybe it’s not all but it’s getting there.

As for Mr. Kraft specifically, if you associate with Nazi sympathizers — and that is what the president is—I feel completely entitled to assume you are a bad person. I will not stop and I will not apologize. He’s not just a supporter, he’s his good friend. I’m not even asking Kraft to disavow him. Just stop hanging out for fucks sake. This is not Bush, this is not about republicans per se, trump is sui generous and should be treated as such.

Also, I didn’t bring politics into this thread. Hell, from the standpoint of a gun nut, Kraft made the team all political by flying in people who are trying to take away rights.

If a player or owner feels passionately he should articulate his position. Even if I don’t agree, I think that’s a good thing, but if it’s a stupid or bigoted position, he should be judged for it too.

Do you have anything to actually back up such a bold statement, or are you basing this off of who he considers friends? Did I miss him getting arrested? Are there articles about all of the owners getting arrested or harassing people? If not, what are you basing these claims on?

Back to my original point, in my opinion, if you cannot back up claims like this, you deserve a timeout for ruining a thread and spreading false claims. Clearly I have no authority to do that, but just sharing an opinion, which seems to be more credible as I have actual evidence to support it.[/QUOT
 

bankshot1

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This is pure speculation but Giffords didn't ask Kraft out of the blue for logistical help on an issue that clearly is important to her. There are probably billionaires in Arizona she could have asked.

Perhaps she had reason to believe that Kraft harbors certain political/social beliefs that he is willing to support.
 

lostjumper

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This is pure speculation but Giffords didn't ask Kraft out of the blue for logistical help on an issue that clearly is important to her. There are probably billionaires in Arizona she could have asked.

Perhaps she had reason to believe that Kraft harbors certain political/social beliefs that he is willing to support.
Great, thanks for pointing that out. Now the Giffords are Nazi sympathizers! When will it ever end!
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
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Sep 27, 2016
22,911
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Yeah. But at the same time, the NFL in general has done a pretty bang-up job at bringing politics into football.
The entertainment industry, by its very nature, gives its key figures a platform to speak - and sometimes, the commentary from those figures is expected, and if they don't take a position they get derided.

The NFL and its players could pretend that platform doesn't exist, and sometimes might like to, but they can't make it go away.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
23,204
Are you, though?

You did this. Own it.
I made a small one line joke because I figured someone would immediately want to bring that up; I guess the fact that I posted it before it was inevitably mentioned makes me the culprit for introducing that angle to the discussion; and for that I am sorry. However I think it’s obvious that the discussion was headed there whether I made this post or not

“You did this. Own it.”

That’s a dick thing to say imo.
 

Marciano490

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Nov 4, 2007
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It’s great that he’s doing it and all, but this is pretty clearly a pr stunt. Post Myra bob kraft just isn’t a very good person. Most nfl owners, maybe all, aren’t.
I’d say probably most hyperwealthy businessmen aren’t. Great fortune, great crime and all. Not a critique, just hard to get that high without being self-interested.
 

RetractableRoof

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The thread is a hagiography to the team plane. Literally. It deserves to be ruined. It was fine as a ain’t this cool, but when it turns in to look how great the pats owners are, it opens itself up to criticism.

On most nfl owners being awful, my evidence is the way they’ve treated their employees health for decades, the way they’ve fed at he public trough, the way they covered up abuses by their players and colleagues. Maybe it’s not all but it’s getting there.

As for Mr. Kraft specifically, if you associate with Nazi sympathizers — and that is what the president is—I feel completely entitled to assume you are a bad person. I will not stop and I will not apologize. He’s not just a supporter, he’s his good friend. I’m not even asking Kraft to disavow him. Just stop hanging out for fucks sake. This is not Bush, this is not about republicans per se, trump is sui generous and should be treated as such.

Also, I didn’t bring politics into this thread. Hell, from the standpoint of a gun nut, Kraft made the team all political by flying in people who are trying to take away rights.

If a player or owner feels passionately he should articulate his position. Even if I don’t agree, I think that’s a good thing, but if it’s a stupid or bigoted position, he should be judged for it too.
You've got a lot of balls to tell a man he has to stop "hanging out" with another person who exhibited significant compassion and who basically stood by his side for a significant amount of time while he grieved the loss of his wife. It takes very little to see the vast amount of decent things Kraft has done, and given his relationship with Israel, various Jewish charities, and who his wife was - it is particularly special for you to tell that man he shouldn't associate with "Nazi sympathizers". Who do you think you are?

It seems that you believe you alone are worthy of deciding when a thread is suitable or not - but talking about the advantages/disadvantages/opportunities of an organization purchasing a corporate jet (or two) isn't out of line given the rocks that are turned over in analyzing the sports teams in this town. Is it unreasonable to ask you to keep the V of the V&N in its appropriate place? I may be alone, but it sucks to have to listen to the politically driven hate you want to spew just because I clicked on the wrong thread in a football forum.
 

jose melendez

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I’d say probably most hyperwealthy businessmen aren’t. Great fortune, great crime and all. Not a critique, just hard to get that high without being self-interested.
Maybe, but what do you do when you're there. I don't care particular for some of Bill Gates' rise, but I respect the hell out of what he's done since getting to the top.
 

jose melendez

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You've got a lot of balls to tell a man he has to stop "hanging out" with another person who exhibited significant compassion and who basically stood by his side for a significant amount of time while he grieved the loss of his wife. It takes very little to see the vast amount of decent things Kraft has done, and given his relationship with Israel, various Jewish charities, and who his wife was - it is particularly special for you to tell that man he shouldn't associate with "Nazi sympathizers". Who do you think you are?

It seems that you believe you alone are worthy of deciding when a thread is suitable or not - but talking about the advantages/disadvantages/opportunities of an organization purchasing a corporate jet (or two) isn't out of line given the rocks that are turned over in analyzing the sports teams in this town. Is it unreasonable to ask you to keep the V of the V&N in its appropriate place? I may be alone, but it sucks to have to listen to the politically driven hate you want to spew just because I clicked on the wrong thread in a football forum.
Great. Stop having a thread about what a fucking great humanitarian Bob is in the football thread, and I'' stop pointing out that he said nothing when his friend called Nazis fine people. As a jew it fucking offends me.

There's a V&N thread now. Go argue he doesn't need to back away from Trump there.
 

Marciano490

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Maybe, but what do you do when you're there. I don't care particular for some of Bill Gates' rise, but I respect the hell out of what he's done since getting to the top.
Yeah, that’s fair. I think Israel’s probably the wildcard here; I can’t understand what the country means for Jewish people, especially seemingly those of a certain age, but seems like Kraft has made a decision to support a man who embraces Nazis but also a Jewish state.

And by can’t understand, I mean am not in a position to, not am incapable of.
 

bankshot1

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Jose

Its Kraft's plane and it was a nice gesture. That was the extent of the lauding Kraft in this thread. You then accused Kraft "having it both ways" and being a shitty human being based solely on his relationship with Trump. The origin of that relationship was explained. As was Kraft's history of philanthropy. IMO your logic and charge is weak.
 

lexrageorge

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Great. Stop having a thread about what a fucking great humanitarian Bob is in the football thread, and I'' stop pointing out that he said nothing when his friend called Nazis fine people. As a jew it fucking offends me.

There's a V&N thread now. Go argue he doesn't need to back away from Trump there.
I don't think you get to decide whether to have a thread that praises Bob Kraft.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

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Do you have anything to actually back up such a bold statement, or are you basing this off of who he considers friends? Did I miss him getting arrested?
As for Mr. Kraft specifically, if you associate with Nazi sympathizers — and that is what the president is—I feel completely entitled to assume you are a bad person..
So...no.
 

Tyrone Biggums

nfl meets tri-annually at a secret country mansion
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Aug 15, 2006
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Great. Stop having a thread about what a fucking great humanitarian Bob is in the football thread, and I'' stop pointing out that he said nothing when his friend called Nazis fine people. As a jew it fucking offends me.

There's a V&N thread now. Go argue he doesn't need to back away from Trump there.
Can you please not use his name? It’s 45.

This offends me.
 

Spelunker

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I don't think you get to decide whether to have a thread that praises Bob Kraft.
He didn't say that you couldn't. He said that if you were going to do that he could point out that Kraft supports a Nazi sympathizer. Or, more directly, if you don't want people arguing against non-football related praise for Kraft don't create a thread praising him for non-football reasons.

Commentary invites critique thereof. That's message board 101.
 

RetractableRoof

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Great. Stop having a thread about what a fucking great humanitarian Bob is in the football thread, and I'' stop pointing out that he said nothing when his friend called Nazis fine people. As a jew it fucking offends me.

There's a V&N thread now. Go argue he doesn't need to back away from Trump there.
That's my point, if I wanted to argue that - I'd have joined you in that thread or one like it. I didn't, so I came here instead - where you've turned this thread away from it's discussion to your hate filled point of view. You are also rationalizing your failure to keep the V&N in it's place by mischaracterizing what is actually in this thread.

He didn't say that you couldn't. He said that if you were going to do that he could point out that Kraft supports a Nazi sympathizer. Or, more directly, if you don't want people arguing against non-football related praise for Kraft don't create a thread praising him for non-football reasons.

Commentary invites critique thereof. That's message board 101.
Except that this thread was created to discuss a football organization purchasing a corporate jet. There was a SINGLE post about it being used for non-football purposes and the poster being proud. Mischaracterizing the thread to suit ones purposes is just lame. That's also message board 101.
 
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