Pablo Taking Grounders at First

garlan5 · Jul 5, 2015

I'm all about Brock taking over full time at third. Panda/nap platoon at first would be fine by me to compensate. I'm not in the lump of people wanting to lynch mike napoli. Where are the group of sosh'ers who were hating on Brock Holt and calling him the 2014 Pedro Ciraco, forgive my butchering of the spelling Pedros last name.

drtooth · Jul 5, 2015

A couple of interesting things I found on baseball reference this morning.

1. His SO% (26.1) is the lowest in his 3 years in Boston. It was 32.4% in 2013.

2. This gets counteracted by his BAbip is at .231. His previous career low was .273 in 2012. If i read this correctly (please correct me if I'm wrong), if he's not homering or K'ing, he's not doing much of anything.

3. He's still seeing 4.3 pitches per PA. Down slightly but still in line with his career numbers.

4. His HR/FB % has dropped each of the last 3 years to a low of 11.4 % this year.

5. His BB% is the lowest (12.4) since 2010.

My only concern Nip with platooning Napoli is whether he will be willing to accept that in a contract year. If that becomes the scenario, he may just ask to be traded released.

Merkle's Boner · Jul 5, 2015

I'm in the camp of keeping our long-term investment at third. I believe you have to try to maximize Panda's value there and don't believe his D could have fallen as far as it would appear to have. I do believe Nap, as much as I love him, is cooked and should be sent out to pasture. I think the best option for 1B is Hanley, just not sure if he can pick it up on the fly. Keep Holt in the OF and serving as utility IF, where his versatility is maximized. My preferred lineup is:

Betts 8
Pedey 4
Xander 6
Ortiz DH
Ramirez 3
Panda 5
Holt 9
DeAza 7
Hanigan 2

garlan5 · Jul 5, 2015

Merkle's Boner said:
I'm in the camp of keeping our long-term investment at third. I believe you have to try to maximize Panda's value there and don't believe his D could have fallen as far as it would appear to have. I do believe Nap, as much as I love him, is cooked and should be sent out to pasture. I think the best option for 1B is Hanley, just not sure if he can pick it up on the fly. Keep Holt in the OF and serving as utility IF, where his versatility is maximized. My preferred lineup is:

Betts 8
Pedey 4
Xander 6
Ortiz DH
Ramirez 3
Panda 5
Holt 9
DeAza 7
Hanigan 2

Deaza over Victorino?

Merkle's Boner · Jul 5, 2015

garlan5 said:
Deaza over Victorino?

I'd like to ride DeAza for awhile but probably you end up with Vic in RF and Holt in LF. Vic steps into DeAza's spot in the lineup.

pjheff · Jul 5, 2015

Merkle's Boner said:
I'm in the camp of keeping our long-term investment at third. I believe you have to try to maximize Panda's value there and don't believe his D could have fallen as far as it would appear to have. I do believe Nap, as much as I love him, is cooked and should be sent out to pasture.

I don't see Farrell making radical shifts in player deployment midseason. When Pedey returns, I suspect that Holt will remain essentially an everyday player and #2 hitter, getting the majority of the starts at 1B versus righties and the bulk of starts at 3B versus lefties with the flexibility to shift to the other positions should a guy need a day off or get injured. More importantly, that lineup will possibly offer Farrell the opportunity to get eight professional at-bats per turn through the order for the first time all year.

snowmanny · Jul 5, 2015

For right now I'd play Holt at first vs RHP and not move Ramirez or Sandoval. It's just the cleanest move. It may make sense to think about making Pablo a platoon player at first or third and it may make sense to move Hanley out of the outfield but doing either of those now seems early, risky and forced: I'd prefer they consider those over the winter. If Napoli objects to platooning I'd tell him he can be traded/DFA'd at the end of the month if he'd prefer that.

jasail · Jul 5, 2015

I've been thinking for a while that they cut bait with Napoli and call up Craig. Holt plays 1B against most RHP. Against LHP, Holt slides over to 3B and Craig starts.

They should also start platooning Ortiz and Hanley at DH. Vic starts against LHP in LF for Hanley or in RF if they want to sit DeAza. In that case, Craig or Holt can back up LF and 1B with Pablo getting some games against LHP or Marrero at 3B.

I just don't like the idea of moving players around the diamond resulting in Hanley at a more important or active defensive position. Pablo to 1B and Holt to 3B would be ok, but only if that's a long term decision they want to make. Meaning if Pablo isn't starting at 1b next year, he shouldn't be moved now.

Byrdbrain · Jul 5, 2015

Holt isn't going anywhere until Pedey is back, moving him to first puts Marrero at 2nd and though Napoli has been awful he at least has the possibility to run into one on occasion.
When Pedey is back then sure Holt can play some first.

drtooth · Jul 5, 2015

Just saw the lineup on twitter. Papi starting at 1B. Hmmm

BestGameEvah · Jul 5, 2015

1st start for Ortiz in American League park since August 2006!

Byrdbrain · Jul 5, 2015

Not something they plan on doing all the time but seems like a good idea once in a while.

Tim Britton ‏@TimBritton 6m6 minutes ago
Farrell said it was "an ideal set of circumstances" to play Ortiz at 1B today. "I don't know how frequently we would see this going fwd."

Jack Rabbit Slim · Jul 5, 2015

I would be disappointed to see Pablo move to first as anything more than a short term solution. Wasn't the whole point in overpaying for him the fact that there were no good 3B options for the next few years? Maybe Brock Holt has changed that but it seems the team values him more for his versatility.

Perhaps this should go in the buyers thread, but what are the thoughts on trading for Adam Lind? He adds another extreme LHH platoon split (.927/.618), but its better than Napoli. With an $8m team option for next, he could be a nice solution at 1B for the short term. The Brewers should be selling and he seems like the kind of under the radar name where Boston could use the depth of its farm system and not give up the big name prospects.

RoDaddy · Jul 5, 2015

Craig was mentioned but I'm not sure he'd be anything more than a lateral move from Nap, since Nap is a streak hitter and could conceivable get hot again. And Craig's numbers in AAA aren't overwhelming, hitting .270 something with only 3 dingers (good OBP but unimpressive OPS).

Moving forward, I'd give Hanley a few games at 1B if possible to give us some flexibility down the line. A Mookie/JBJ/Rusney OF has been thrown out as a possibility for next year,and Hanley at first is one resolution here. He's played a lot of SS and 3B - albeit at a crappy level - but still, anyone who can play those positions in the big leagues should be able to make the transition to first, and likely more easily than his weak transition to LF.

grimshaw · Jul 5, 2015

-Pablo at 1B and Holt at 3B seems the most likely scenario, and probably a better defensive option.
-I don't see Hanley moving to 3B. He's built like a linebacker now and starting to hit. I wouldn't touch that and knock off his equilibrium.
-Craig just isn't happening. Can we kill that? He's slugging .369. He's off the 40 man. We've heard about the salary implications of bringing him back up. If anyone is called up, it would be Shaw and that is pretty unlikely given his struggles this season as well.

-I think Nap's gone when Pedey comes back. Not every player can adjust to being a platoon guy. Especially someone who is struggling so much, and is so far off his timing. Nava is another possibility, but is also in limbo.

-I've also mentioned Adam Lind since he has a good contract and can bridge for 2016 as well.

Savin Hillbilly · Jul 5, 2015

AlNipper49 said:
Snod wrote up an awesome piece for us, which I think probably falls into the bucket of "whatever plan we have doesn't have to be permanent". Let's file this under Napoli can be fixed (Although this isn't what Snod was getting at)

http://sonsofsamhorn.com/baseball/teams/al-east/boston-red-sox/mike-napoli-is-way-off-balance/

Given that so much of what Snod points to in that analysis involves weight distribution, leg position/orientation, etc., should we be worrying that this might have something to do with the hip condition that was a big issue and then kind of fell off everybody's radar?

garlan5 said:
Deaza over Victorino?

I would platoon them, and that makes De Aza the strong side of the platoon, so, yes. De Aza hits RHP better. Vic might still be the better defensive player of the two, but De Aza isn't bad. Also, in practical terms, platooning might be the best way to keep Vic on the field for the rest of the year.

bobesox · Jul 5, 2015

I would assume Vic for late inning defense.

FanSinceBoggs · Jul 5, 2015

With Papi playing first, the Red Sox must be against playing Hanley at 1b. And having Savdoval take grounders at 1b also suggests that the Red Sox do not intend to move Hanley to the position.

It's nice that Craig is showing some signs of life in AAA, but we are still talking about a .761 OPS with over 150 ABs. We need to see more offensive game from him against minor league pitchers.

Montana Fan · Jul 5, 2015

Castig said during the broadcast that the reason Sandoval was taking grounders at first was because the field had been overwatered on the 3b side.

Snodgrass'Muff · Jul 5, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
Given that so much of what Snod points to in that analysis involves weight distribution, leg position/orientation, etc., should we be worrying that this might have something to do with the hip condition that was a big issue and then kind of fell off everybody's radar?

I'm mobile so I can't go into much detail but I would think that his hips deteriorating would mean less movement during his leg kick, stride and follow through but he is actually moving more in all three.

I could very well be wrong but I think he's lost bat speed and is trying to compensate by swinging harder and it's throwing everything else out of whack.

Rasputin · Jul 5, 2015

FanSinceBoggs said:
With Papi playing first, the Red Sox must be against playing Hanley at 1b.

Is there any reason to think Ramirez would be any good at first? The closest analogue you can find in his history is when he played third and he was pretty bad at it. It's one thing to have a butcher in left and another thing entirely to have a butcher at first. With as hard as his transition to left has been, I'd have to think moving him to first is a complete non-starter right now. Maybe you can think of doing it over the course of an off season where he'll have a month of spring training games to make the transition, but to do it mid season like this strikes me as being absurd.

Heating up in the bullpen · Jul 5, 2015

Re: Hanley to 1B - I agree with Ras that maybe it can happen over an off-season/Spring Training. But I recall that after he came in to play emergency 3B earlier this year, he said had no plans to play infield again.
Re: Napoli's bat. It seems like the Sox FO gives a vet about a half-season before doing something like a DFA. Napoli's time is coming up. His numbers still look decent vs lefties, which encourages us to think platoon. The reality, though, is that except for his magical six-game streak in May (19-24, with home series vs. Texas and LAA), his numbers vs lefties are also atrocious. BTW, that stretch also significantly boosted his numbers vs RHP.

Whole season OBP/SLG/OPS
vs RHP .280 / .318 / .598
vs LHP .333 / .471 / .804
Total .294 / .358 / .652

Season less 5/19-24
vs RHP .265 / .268 / .533
vs LHP .310 / .333 / .643
Total .276 / .285 / .561

Playing 39-year-old Ortiz at 1B in an AL park for the first time since 2006 speaks pretty clearly about how the Sox are feeling about Napoli.

Reverend · Jul 5, 2015

Montana Fan said:
Castig said during the broadcast that the reason Sandoval was taking grounders at first was because the field had been overwatered on the 3b side.

I can't stop laughing at this.

Awesome. Just tremendous.

Al Zarilla · Jul 5, 2015

I hadn't seen a Sox game in a week and a half, and Pablo looks like he's even heavier than he was then. I know, what can you tell in two dimensions and is the shirt billowing out, or is it his gut? Forget that, it's his gut. I know, when he's hitting, and as long as he isn't falling down running the bases, or in the field, nobody cares. Crazy.

Hee Sox Choi · Jul 5, 2015

Looking at ESPN's splits, it looks like Panda is 10 for 33 as a L vs L with 5 Ks, 1 double. That's .303 so maybe leaving him in vs. both sides is the best option as of now. To the eye, he's ripped some balls as a L on L.

soxhop411 · Jul 5, 2015

“@Shesta_Sox: From @EliasSports: Today marked the first time in the franchise’s
17,867-game history that the Red Sox did not have a 1B record a putout.”

Of course it's the game that Ortiz plays first in an AL park.

Al Zarilla · Jul 5, 2015

Hee Sox Choi said:
Looking at ESPN's splits, it looks like Panda is 10 for 33 as a L vs L with 5 Ks, 1 double. That's .303 so maybe leaving him in vs. both sides is the best option as of now. To the eye, he's ripped some balls as a L on L.

No walks and no HRs that way, but who cares, that's vs. his .142 OPS as RHB vs. LHP.

Byrdbrain · Jul 5, 2015

soxhop411 said:
“@Shesta_Sox: From @EliasSports: Today marked the first time in the franchise’s
17,867-game history that the Red Sox did not have a 1B record a putout.”

Of course it's the game that Ortiz plays first in an AL park.

Absolutely insane, the only infield groudball was to Ortiz and he got the assist not the putout.

Savin Hillbilly · Jul 5, 2015

Hee Sox Choi said:
Looking at ESPN's splits, it looks like Panda is 10 for 33 as a L vs L with 5 Ks, 1 double. That's .303 so maybe leaving him in vs. both sides is the best option as of now. To the eye, he's ripped some balls as a L on L.

That's an awfully tiny sample, but no harm in seeing if it can persist for a while.

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