Olympic Basketball and summer tournaments

InstaFace

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The Team USA thread simply won't hold it all. There's too much good stuff.

Lots of Olympic warmup tournaments going on right now, but also the Qualifier tournaments handing out the last 4 golden tickets to Paris. Here is the Final of one of those tournaments, between hosts Puerto Rico and tiny basketball-mad Lithuania - Jose Alvarado vs Sabonis.

View: https://youtu.be/WdkhkMefq3Q
 

InstaFace

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How good is Greece’s 2nd best player?
First off, like most Euro national teams, you can't evaluate them off the clubs they play for. They all get together way more often than the USA roster does, they play more tournaments together, and have longer-term commitments to the program, so they more resemble a team than a collection of "best available talent". I think they had a different Player of the Game for each game in the qualifier tournament. Because of them having so many reps together (mostly without Giannis), historically Giannis has really not integrated well with the Greek team, they just haven't known how to use him and sometimes haven't even played him starter minutes. I think they played against USA each of the last two FIBA World Cups and he looked like a fish out of water compared to playing for Milwaukee, like "Barely knew the playbook" level awkward.

However, they now look like they've finally figured out how to use him (he and Calathes especially have nice chemistry), and the results showed, especially against Croatia who have a great team. So the more complete answer is, you can watch and answer this for yourself!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCeGJXuJFto


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s2hd5pzWps


(for my money, it was PG Nick Calathes in the Slovenia game, and their center Papagiannis in the Croatia game. Sidenote, Luka Scuka sounds like a made-up name.)

...and while we're at it, look what qualifying means to Giannis:

View: https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1810043595153457263


But yeah if you're just going to focus on their qualifier roster (Paris rosters aren't out yet for the qualifier-winning teams), the roster is mostly from Greece's Big Two clubs (Olympiacos and Panathinaikos, who came in 3rd and 1st in the EuroLeague playoffs this year), plus AS Monaco (3rd in reg season, lost in QFs). The player with the second-most-prestigious career to date is probably team captain Kostas Papanikolaou, a two-time EuroLeague champ, former Rockets and Nuggets player (and Barcelona) who's been at Olympiacos forever. The whole roster is EuroLeague standouts though, some of whom probably could have played in the NBA if they really wanted to but were happier to remain closer to home. So, again, their roster isn't "Giannis and a bunch of guys", you need to think of it more like a high-level soccer national team, maybe Argentina, where their best player doesn't play in the leagues most of them run in, but
 
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InstaFace

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BTW, if you're looking to procrastinate today, France and Germany play another friendly today at 3:00pm ET. To make it more fair, this time France is sitting Wembanyama, who "has the sniffles", aka "Gregg Popovich told us no nice restaurant in the world would ever seat us again if we overplayed the kid before the Opening Ceremonies". Unclear if Germany is now sporting more Wagners.

I believe it is streaming for free via NBA.com:

https://www.nba.com/watch/event/france-vs-germany

Their last game (from which we saw the Wemby highlights in the other thread) got real spicy for a friendly warmup. Fournier and Schroder tried to choke each other. Can't imagine why we got rid of them, really.
 

Senator Donut

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I heard on Brian Windhorst's podcast that France is running pick and rolls with Wemby and Gobert. France will be appointment viewing this summer.
 

Euclis20

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Euclis20

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Guerschon Yabusele playing meaningful minutes for this French team is just wild to me. The guy was so useless for us.
He's honestly not that much better in this setting, it's just that France's roster (outside of their 14 and a half feet of all-NBA centers) is ugly. 3rd best player is probably Batum, and they've only got one other player (Coulibaly) even on an NBA roster right now. He probably looks ok playing Brazil, because at a glance at their roster, I don't recognize a single name other than Raul Neto (and he's not currently on an NBA roster right now).
 

Ale Xander

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He's honestly not that much better in this setting, it's just that France's roster (outside of their 14 and a half feet of all-NBA centers) is ugly. 3rd best player is probably Batum, and they've only got one other player (Coulibaly) even on an NBA roster right now. He probably looks ok playing Brazil, because at a glance at their roster, I don't recognize a single name other than Raul Neto (and he's not currently on an NBA roster right now).
Ntlkina was an 8 year nba veteran and the 8th player drafted in his year
 

Euclis20

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Ntlkina was an 8 year nba veteran and the 8th player drafted in his year
A lot of the French guys have familiar names, they just aren't any good. Frankie Smokes played all of 43 minutes in the NBA last year, and he's playing in Serbia next year. Safe to say he's worse than Batum, and I'm comfortable sticking him in the "ugly" group of the French roster.
 

Senator Donut

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France also made some questionable roster choices. Killian Hayes does not impact winning in the NBA, but he started 31 games in the league last year, unlike some of their other guards who have never sniffed the NBA. Nolan Traore is a consensus top-two prospect in a loaded draft in addition to the top two picks of this past draft. None of them are on this French team.
 

reggiecleveland

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Dillion Brooks is a really ugly offensive player, when he isn't traveling and carrying constantly.
He is a fantastic FIBA player.
Canada survived Greece even though as expected, Giannis gets an even better whistle internationally. Clearly SGA's team as Murray is the backup PG behind him.
 

benhogan

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France also made some questionable roster choices. Killian Hayes does not impact winning in the NBA, but he started 31 games in the league last year, unlike some of their other guards who have never sniffed the NBA. Nolan Traore is a consensus top-two prospect in a loaded draft in addition to the top two picks of this past draft. None of them are on this French team.
Killian Hayes starting 31 games was one of several bad decisions made by Monty Williams last season. The Troy Weaver era was a doozy for the Motor City
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Guerschon Yabusele playing meaningful minutes for this French team is just wild to me. The guy was so useless for us.
He was pretty good in the last Olympics - key part of the game where France beat the US IIRC.

He needed to develop. According to this article, he really worked on this game, especially his 3P shot. In the 8 seasons he's played outside the NBA, he's averaging (across several different leagues) 12.4/5.1/1.3 in approximately 25.4 minutes per game, shooting .517 (.585 from 2P) / .407 / .746.

I don't know if he'd start in the NBA - would really depend on how his defense holds up - but given the dearth of wings in the NBA, I presume a 6'7" (ish) guy at his size who can shoot 40% from 3P is pretty valuable. He's apparently content to be playing in Euroleague so we'll probably never find out about how he'd fit in the NBA: https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/1615928/guerschon-yabusele-i-am-waiting-for-the-olympics-not-the-nba/
 

Euclis20

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Hey are there any American players whose team does not let them play in the Olympics?
Probably not, but that doesn't have anything to do with the guys running Team USA, or NBA teams having more respect for a guy wanting to play for their own country. The sort of player that would be invited to join Team USA is the sort of player that their team really can't insist that they do anything. Can you imagine the Celtics/Lakers/Sixers/Suns telling Tatum/Davis/Embiid/Durant that they aren't allowed to play for the national team? The balance of power in the NBA is in the star player's hands, and Andrew Wiggins (assuming this is who your thinking about in posing this question) isn't a star player, so the Warriors can tell him he can't play and he (and team Canada) can't do shit about it.

If OKC or Denver wanted to keep SGA or Murray from playing for Canada, I don't think they could (or would even try). Stars run the league, and every guy on Team USA is a star, in one form or another.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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So I just realized that 3 on 3 Basketball is an Olympic sport these games. Any reason the USA team shouldn't be the best remaining players? Like is there any chance the US wouldn't wipe the floor with a team of Brunson, Jaylen and Zion? Or maybe strategically should be putting a few players from the end of the 5 on 5 rotation? I mean Slovenia should only be fielding a 3on3 team and going for the gold. Helps their lack of depth and Luka doesn't need to run the full court anyway.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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So I just realized that 3 on 3 Basketball is an Olympic sport these games. Any reason the USA team shouldn't be the best remaining players? Like is there any chance the US wouldn't wipe the floor with a team of Brunson, Jaylen and Zion? Or maybe strategically should be putting a few players from the end of the 5 on 5 rotation? I mean Slovenia should only be fielding a 3on3 team and going for the gold. Helps their lack of depth and Luka doesn't need to run the full court anyway.
There is a qualification process.

https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/3x3-basketball-101-olympic-qualifying
 

PedroKsBambino

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So I just realized that 3 on 3 Basketball is an Olympic sport these games. Any reason the USA team shouldn't be the best remaining players? Like is there any chance the US wouldn't wipe the floor with a team of Brunson, Jaylen and Zion? Or maybe strategically should be putting a few players from the end of the 5 on 5 rotation? I mean Slovenia should only be fielding a 3on3 team and going for the gold. Helps their lack of depth and Luka doesn't need to run the full court anyway.
Well, having Zion on the team means playing two on three half the time, so that's a challenge for one....
 

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wade boggs chicken dinner

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So I just realized that 3 on 3 Basketball is an Olympic sport these games. Any reason the USA team shouldn't be the best remaining players? Like is there any chance the US wouldn't wipe the floor with a team of Brunson, Jaylen and Zion? Or maybe strategically should be putting a few players from the end of the 5 on 5 rotation? I mean Slovenia should only be fielding a 3on3 team and going for the gold. Helps their lack of depth and Luka doesn't need to run the full court anyway.
Well, 3X3 is a different game than 5 on 5. First of all, there's a 2 point shot so guarding and making that shot is going to be at a premium. I am also just learning that there's no coaching during games.

Here's an article from 2021 discussing some of the things a NBA player might face if he started playing 3X3: Olympics: Could NBA players dominate 3x3 basketball? - Yahoo Sports. The biggest thing is that NBA players wouldn't risk the injury - the game is much more physical; they play outside; and there are two games per day.

I did not realize this but the US did not qualify for the 2020 Olympics so this will be our first appearance.

Jimmer Fredette is on the team. So is Canyon Berry, another Berry son. 2024 USA 3x3 Men’s National Team set to Ignite Olympic Run with Pool Play - USA Basketball

I know PP played 3X3 internationally when he was younger. Baylor Scheierman would probably be a great 3X3 player given his football background, his shooting, and his vision.
 

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Home cooking refs hand wrapped the Japan game to France. Down 4 with :18 second left, France offense scrambling, kicks out for 3, upfake, side step 3, defender soft contests w :11 on clock. Ref inexplicably blows the whistle for 4-pt play and France wins in OT
 

Euclis20

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Home cooking refs hand wrapped the Japan game to France. Down 4 with :18 second left, France offense scrambling, kicks out for 3, upfake, side step 3, defender soft contests w :11 on clock. Ref inexplicably blows the whistle for 4-pt play and France wins in OT
Yeah there were some rough whistles:

View: https://twitter.com/LegionHoops/status/1818325862280007912


View: https://twitter.com/bronisabeast/status/1818330686203523523


View: https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1818332945993941503
 

Deathofthebambino

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reggiecleveland

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I want to give a shout-out to my friend Lisa Thomaidis. She was let go as coach of Canada, and took over a German team ranked far below Canada and took them to the Olympics for the first time. Short of a epic 4th quarter comeback in qualifying by the Canadian women, there was almost the situation where Canada would have missed Paris while the coach they let go would have been there. At any rate Canada looked old and nonathletic against France while Germany beat Euro Champs Belgium.

https://www.fiba.basketball/en/events/womens-olympic-basketball-tournament-paris-2024/news/germany-blast-their-way-past-belgium-for-historic-debut-win
 
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InstaFace

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Well, 3X3 is a different game than 5 on 5. First of all, there's a 2 point shot so guarding and making that shot is going to be at a premium. I am also just learning that there's no coaching during games.

Here's an article from 2021 discussing some of the things a NBA player might face if he started playing 3X3: Olympics: Could NBA players dominate 3x3 basketball? - Yahoo Sports. The biggest thing is that NBA players wouldn't risk the injury - the game is much more physical; they play outside; and there are two games per day.

I did not realize this but the US did not qualify for the 2020 Olympics so this will be our first appearance.

Jimmer Fredette is on the team. So is Canyon Berry, another Berry son. 2024 USA 3x3 Men’s National Team set to Ignite Olympic Run with Pool Play - USA Basketball

I know PP played 3X3 internationally when he was younger. Baylor Scheierman would probably be a great 3X3 player given his football background, his shooting, and his vision.
In other 3x3 news, the USA women's 3x3 team - headlined by Hailey Van Lith - just lost its opener to Germany.

https://sports.yahoo.com/2024-olympics-us-3x3-womens-basketball-team-falls-in-opener-against-germany-163313194.html

Clearly a very different game. I wonder if USA Basketball will prioritize having some teams gel and hit the circuit for a bit before sending them along in the future.
 

HomeRunBaker

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...and the Men's 3x3 team drops their opener too, to Serbia, 22-14. Serbia is favored for the gold by most sources I've seen, but USA is also tabbed to at least medal, so that's a bit rough to not give them a closer game.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/40685464/fredette-team-usa-fall-3x3-olympics-basketball-opener
What am I missing here?

“The U.S. brought in former NBA player Jimmer Fredette after not qualifying for the last Olympics.”

How bout bringing in AD, LeBron and Curry? Or even going outside the Team….Kawhi, Zion and D.Mitchell? I mean if they are serious enough about the event to say “Ok guys, we didn’t get it done last time. Let’s get Jimmer in here” then go get guys to win the Gold.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Can’t use players who have ever been on the 5x5 national team
That’s the explanation I was looking for and that covers a ton of NBA players even like a Brook Lopez. Thank you sir.

Still….If you’re going to field a basketball team wearing the USA uniform at least make a commitment to fielding the best team or one that is at least interesting. I mean….hello Cooper Flagg! If this is going to be a thing make 3x3 almost like a prerequisite for future spots kinda like World Cup and other international events. Let the marginal guys like Derrick White do the country a solid knowing that it could help them down the road. I mean….Jimmer? He’s not even an optimal halfcourt player, he’s at his best in the open floor probing and looking for his shot in secondary transition while not being a guy to navigate screens defensively in the halfcourt.
 

ManicCompression

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That’s the explanation I was looking for and that covers a ton of NBA players even like a Brook Lopez. Thank you sir.

Still….If you’re going to field a basketball team wearing the USA uniform at least make a commitment to fielding the best team or one that is at least interesting. I mean….hello Cooper Flagg! If this is going to be a thing make 3x3 almost like a prerequisite for future spots kinda like World Cup and other international events. Let the marginal guys like Derrick White do the country a solid knowing that it could help them down the road. I mean….Jimmer? He’s not even an optimal halfcourt player, he’s at his best in the open floor probing and looking for his shot in secondary transition while not being a guy to navigate screens defensively in the halfcourt.
Two things prevent this from being a sound strategy:

- 3x3 seems very, very different from 5x5. It’s Olympic pickup in the park, played at a different pace, outside and only in the half court. I’m not saying an NBA player wouldn’t excel in this format, but some of these guys have a hard enough time with the transition to FIBA rules.

- a 3x3 medal just doesn’t seem worth it?
 

BaseballJones

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Two things prevent this from being a sound strategy:

- 3x3 seems very, very different from 5x5. It’s Olympic pickup in the park, played at a different pace, outside and only in the half court. I’m not saying an NBA player wouldn’t excel in this format, but some of these guys have a hard enough time with the transition to FIBA rules.

- a 3x3 medal just doesn’t seem worth it?
An Olympic gold medal is an Olympic gold medal. Put the best team you can out there in all sports.
 

lexrageorge

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An Olympic gold medal is an Olympic gold medal. Put the best team you can out there in all sports.
I am guessing most US basketball fans would consider the 3x3 game gimmicky and so don’t care enough about it. Players may feel the same way.
 

InstaFace

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I am guessing most US basketball fans would consider the 3x3 game gimmicky and so don’t care enough about it. Players may feel the same way.
People call everything gimmicky until they get into it. Mark Cuban thinks we're subsidizing the IOC earning money off of NBA players and we should hold our own world cup and send a U23 team to the Olympics like what FIFA does. People either buy into the ethos of the Games a little bit (despite the obvious grungy sides) or they don't.

I say they should have a big 3x3 tournament where they invite Ice Cube's Big3 teams and anyone else who wants to put together a team and play. Hold an actual national championship Cup, and then let the coach of the winner coach the Olympics either with the players he brought or upgrading to ones he'd prefer.
 

PedroKsBambino

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You can imagine sending guys like Flagg ("earn your stripes on way to 5x5 team") and IT ("still can win a gold") or Buddy Hield ("won't ever be on 5x5 but olympics!) with differing rationales.

You can also imagine that top NCAA team would almost port here - wouldn't UConn's three-man team be medal favorites, or highly competitive?

Just sort of looking for wheover will say yes probably isn't right model long term
 

BaseballJones

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I am guessing most US basketball fans would consider the 3x3 game gimmicky and so don’t care enough about it. Players may feel the same way.
Maybe. But I mean....it's a full, legit gold medal at the Olympics. And 3 on 3 is one of the most traditional kinds of basketball games played all over the country. I cannot fathom a US player turning it down because they think it's a "gimmick". Even if it is...it's a real gold medal.
 

ManicCompression

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Ping pong is an olympic sport. Trampoline is an olympic sport. Rhythmic gymnastics is an olympic sport. Breakdancing is an olympic sport. They all count.
None of those competitions has a nearly identical sport filled with athletes of superior skill. You could not take the best tennis player on earth and watch them cruise to a gold in ping pong, but you could drop Lebron James in a 3x3 tournament and watch him dominate. It’s kind of a joke. These are the best basketball players who are willing to play 3x3 instead of honing their skills in a real professional league.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Two things prevent this from being a sound strategy:

- 3x3 seems very, very different from 5x5. It’s Olympic pickup in the park, played at a different pace, outside and only in the half court. I’m not saying an NBA player wouldn’t excel in this format, but some of these guys have a hard enough time with the transition to FIBA rules.

- a 3x3 medal just doesn’t seem worth it?
1 - I agree it is much different which is why you must account for the players skillsets to translate. Jimmer’s don’t figure to while someone like Marcus Morris would, a 2-way halfcourt player who can matchup physically on switches and score at multiple levels. Obv not pining for MaMo specifically but he’s an example of how you account for skillset transition.

2 - I mean if Olympic medals don’t count let’s not send anyone. Either commit to it or don’t is my point….more or less questioning the “We gotta get Jimmer in here.” Don’t you think Flagg would absolutely LOVE to represent our country while giving him a boost to the ‘28 5x5 squad? I read an article saying USA 3x3 was “stacked”…like seriously wtf? Canyon Barry, Kareem Maddox and some dude who played NAIA 10 years ago who is now a teacher? Gtfoh
 

InstaFace

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2 - I mean if Olympic medals don’t count let’s not send anyone. Either commit to it or don’t is my point….more or less questioning the “We gotta get Jimmer in here.” Don’t you think Flagg would absolutely LOVE to represent our country while giving him a boost to the ‘28 5x5 squad? I read an article saying USA 3x3 was “stacked”…like seriously wtf? Canyon Barry, Kareem Maddox and some dude who played NAIA 10 years ago who is now a teacher? Gtfoh
I'm with you on this - send the guys on the Select Team. Payton Pritchard would give his left nut to compete in the Olympics for his country. If we're sending PP, Podz, Suggs, Amen Thompson... like, I'd watch. And I bet I'm not alone.
 

ManicCompression

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1 - I agree it is much different which is why you must account for the players skillsets to translate. Jimmer’s don’t figure to while someone like Marcus Morris would, a 2-way halfcourt player who can matchup physically on switches and score at multiple levels. Obv not pining for MaMo specifically but he’s an example of how you account for skillset transition.

2 - I mean if Olympic medals don’t count let’s not send anyone. Either commit to it or don’t is my point….more or less questioning the “We gotta get Jimmer in here.” Don’t you think Flagg would absolutely LOVE to represent our country while giving him a boost to the ‘28 5x5 squad? I read an article saying USA 3x3 was “stacked”…like seriously wtf? Canyon Barry, Kareem Maddox and some dude who played NAIA 10 years ago who is now a teacher? Gtfoh
I’m assuming there’s a fairly large time commitment, so if you’re Cooper Flagg, why would you waste any bandwidth on reorienting your game to 3x3 and training with a team for it instead of working on your 5x5 pro career? And why risk injury for this?

Furthermore, if you’re an NBA player who’s not an all star, why risk professional embarrassment? There are lots of reasons to not do it, and the only reason to do it is to get a JV medal. You have to have a certain level of desperation to go out for it, hence Jimmer