N'Keal Harry WR Arizona State Rd1 Pk32

Zososoxfan

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His top-end speed isn't that bad - he ran a 4.53, same as Mike Evans and in the same ballpark as top receivers JuJu Smith-Schuster (4.54), Davante Adams (4.56), Nuke Hopkins (4.57), and Michael Thomas (4.57). He falls in the category of most NFL receivers, where he isn't going to win with his speed, but his speed can't be ignored.

I don't think it makes much sense to move him to tight end, as you seem to be suggesting, but I think you hit on something about his physical profile. Gronk was a tight end with tight end athleticism who was almost built like an offensive tackle; he was a physical mismatch for linebackers, much less the defensive backs who often covered him. In a similar way, Harry, is a wide receiver with wide receiver athleticism who is built almost like a small tight end. He's a physical mismatch for the cornerbacks who are going to be covering him, especially if they use him in the slot and he gets matched up on smaller slot CB. He's not going to outrace those guys, but he is so much bigger and more physical than the players who will be defending him, he will still be a handful.
Seems like bully ball brings us back to the early dynastic period where ball control and a bend-don't-break D were the norm. The phrase 'X has forgotten more about Y than Z will ever know' gets overused, but BB really is on another level by bringing his understanding of football philosophy to player acquisition as well.

On N'Keal, just reading these descriptions kinda reminds me of Devin Funchess (full disclosure: I watched him closely as Michigan and loved his game from day 1).

Funchess:
6'4''
232 lbs.
Arm length = 33.5''
40 = 4.7 secs
Bench = 17 reps
Vert = 38.5''
Broad = 122''

N'Keal:
6'2''
228 lbs.
Arms = 33''
40 = 4.53 secs
Bench = 27 (!)
Vert = 38.5''
Broad = 122''

FWIW, NFL.com lists his comparable as Allen Robinson. I'd take him or Funchess in a heartbeat.
 

Marciano490

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Why’s it look like he has to jump to catch that ball? Brady’s declined over the spring.
 

BaseballJones

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N'Keal Harry got hurt yesterday and has essentially been non-productive for the Patriots. Meanwhile, we've seen guys drafted after him, like D.K. Metcalf, emerge as stars. So obviously BB sucks at drafting.

But then I thought...what did SOSH think of the Harry pick? And I looked for (and found, obviously) this thread. Reading through this thread, there were a couple of exceptions, but for the most part, the SOSH BBTL community was really excited about this pick.
 

Average Game James

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N'Keal Harry got hurt yesterday and has essentially been non-productive for the Patriots. Meanwhile, we've seen guys drafted after him, like D.K. Metcalf, emerge as stars. So obviously BB sucks at drafting.

But then I thought...what did SOSH think of the Harry pick? And I looked for (and found, obviously) this thread. Reading through this thread, there were a couple of exceptions, but for the most part, the SOSH BBTL community was really excited about this pick.
I'm really dumbfounded going back and reading the comments about him maybe being the best YAC guy in the draft...
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm really dumbfounded going back and reading the comments about him maybe being the best YAC guy in the draft...
It’s almost like Michel redux. Some of the stuff that made him an exciting college player aren’t happening in pros, for whatever reason. The separation issues were known but he showed some real YAC skills at ASU that we haven’t seen here. Hard to know why.
 

rodderick

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It’s almost like Michel redux. Some of the stuff that made him an exciting college player aren’t happening in pros, for whatever reason. The separation issues were known but he showed some real YAC skills at ASU that we haven’t seen here. Hard to know why.
If you asked me what I thought Harry would look like at the NFL level, I would have said something similar to how Ayuk looks. Not all that fast, but a very strong receiver who would be a beast with the ball in his hands.
 

Super Nomario

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I'm really dumbfounded going back and reading the comments about him maybe being the best YAC guy in the draft...
We saw flashes of the YAC stuff last year, even amidst him playing pretty badly overall. This year, he's produced more, but the YAC hasn't been there even though they were scheming up stuff for him the first couple weeks.
 

BigSoxFan

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If you asked me what I thought Harry would look like at the NFL level, I would have said something similar to how Ayuk looks. Not all that fast, but a very strong receiver who would be a beast with the ball in his hands.
Yup. It’s easy to see why we were hopeful based off his ASU footage. He was like Dez with the ball in his hands at times and had great jump ball skills.
 

EL Jeffe

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I had real concerns with Harry (play speed, press coverage, separation) that have all proven to come true. That said, the final chapter of the N'Keal Harry story hasn't been written. With even league-average QB play, Harry would likely be putting up okay numbers. Every week, Lazar, Reiss, Kyed, et al post screen grabs and videos of the WRs open and not getting the ball, Harry included. I don't see Harry ever being more than a complimentary receiver, and maybe that makes him a bust relative to being the last pick of the 1st round, but he can still carve out a nice career ahead of him. He definitely needs to work his tail off (which seems to be alluded to be Edelman and the coaching staff in past comments), but he also needs to be in a real passing offense. It's hard for me to imagine Julio Jones, Michael Thomas, or any other elite WR doing much in this iteration of New England's offense.

In short, in my list of Patriot issues, Harry isn't near the top. Not to say he hasn't been disappointing or there are real concerns going forward, just that it's hard to come to definitive Harry conclusions with the passing "attack" looking so dreadful. I was convinced the passing game would be fine; I couldn't have been more wrong. SN was right (as usual).
 

Harry Hooper

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Bedard has a piece today that includes a tweet from former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah. The tweet is a shot of the 1991 Ravens (nee Browns) scouting guidance for offensive players that was BB's thinking.

Under WRs, in light of drafting Harry in the first round it is astounding to see the first item as highest priority, "#1 has to be able to get off the LOS w/size, speed, quicks, or any combination of the three."
 

Harry Hooper

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It's also interesting to look at WalterFootball.com's ranking of the WR prospects for the 2019 NFL Draft. Metcalf was 1st and Harry was 6th. Also of note, there was no 3-cone time for Harry from the combine, and Pats have seemed to love 3-cone times in evaluating potential draftees.
 

Super Nomario

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It's also interesting to look at WalterFootball.com's ranking of the WR prospects for the 2019 NFL Draft. Metcalf was 1st and Harry was 6th. Also of note, there was no 3-cone time for Harry from the combine, and Pats have seemed to love 3-cone times in evaluating potential draftees.
The Patriots love 3-cone for some positions, like DB. I don't think they care as much about it for WRs who are going to spend a lot of their time outside. Dobson had a below-average 3-cone, for instance.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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Well, how's that going for them? Harry and Dobson. Because maybe they should just pick guys who resemble guys who've been SUPER successful in the system for two decades.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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An inability to gain separation at college should be a REALLY big red flag and - aw fuck it, we all know. It's just frustrating. Just. Take. Deebo. I know he's been injured a bunch, but he's absolutely the prototypical Patriot. I'm sorry he tweeted or whatever, Bill, maybe next time give less of a shit about that stuff.
 

Seels

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I wanted either of the Browns. Or both. I was satisfied with Harry and still ultimately think he'll be a productive player, but still think the pick was flawed. Even if he reached his 90th percentile in year 1, they went in to the season with every WR on the roster having the same strengths and the same weaknesses. I'll never understand how Bill took a guy that really just can't run outside routes given the rest of the makeup of the team.

Metcalf seemed like the perfect fit at the time and now. Big, quick, and an effective blocker.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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I love Bill, and am fully on board with his being the one to revamp the roster. I also think, even including the "Harry" draft class, the idea that he's had poor drafts the last couple years is lazy and inaccurate thinking. Those drafts look halfway decent so far, maybe more than halfway. BUT: The Harry pick is maddening, especially given - as you allude to - the myriad other options he's had at the position, and at TE, the last two years. Watching these teams tonight, I can't help but think, "Holy JESUS, do our weapons suck out loud." But hey, Harry could improve, and we'll almost certainly (ha!) look to sign or draft a #1 WR in the off-season, at which point every WR gets pushed down the depth chart by ONE. Maybe Meyers, Harry and Byrd don't look so bad if, say, ALLEN ROBINSON III is at the top spot. Fingers crossed.
 

lexrageorge

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Dobson was decent his rookie year, better stats than Malcolm Mitchell. He then got hurt and never was able to recover while playing.
 

lexrageorge

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He was "decent" because he was a warm body in an offense decimated by injuries so he had a ton of opportunities. Kembrell Thompkins got targets too.
He was way better than Harry, and was OK for a rookie in the Pats offense. His problems were not the same as Harry, who is simply invisible most snaps.
 

Captaincoop

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I'm surprised there are still Patriots observers who think Harry is going to become something. Look at Meyers, who is pretty much a total JAG that we unanimously want to upgrade as a #2 receiver - his production over the same two seasons with the same two QBs totally blows Harry away.

How many examples are there of WRs who were drafted and had two seasons this sad, and then turned out to be productive NFL players? That has to be a very short list.
 

BigJimEd

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Sorry, too soon for that reference. Jordy Nelson maybe, he wasn't much more productive. 3rd year WR used to be thing but Harry must be near the low end of WR production to go on to have solid careers.

However, there are some extenuating circumstances for the optimistic type. Injuries in his rookie year and the lack of offseason plus poor QB play in his second.
 

kelpapa

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Davante adams had two subpar seasons before breaking out in his third. They weren't this bad though.
 

Super Nomario

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we'll almost certainly (ha!) look to sign or draft a #1 WR in the off-season, at which point every WR gets pushed down the depth chart by ONE. Maybe Meyers, Harry and Byrd don't look so bad if, say, ALLEN ROBINSON III is at the top spot. Fingers crossed.
Harry will definitely look better if he gets pushed down the depth chart by one, because then we won't have to watch him play anymore. He's already third on a team that doesn't play four WRs.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Dez Bryant now has as many touchdowns receiving this season as N'Keal Harry.

Dez Bryant has 2, and the entire Pats WR corps has 4. Those 4 include the one caught by Gunner, that was thrown by Stidham.

There is a chance Dez Bryant catches as many touchdowns (or maybe more) this season as Cam Newton throws to all of the Pats WR's.
 

BigSoxFan

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Dez Bryant now has as many touchdowns receiving this season as N'Keal Harry.

Dez Bryant has 2, and the entire Pats WR corps has 4. Those 4 include the one caught by Gunner, that was thrown by Stidham.

There is a chance Dez Bryant catches as many touchdowns (or maybe more) this season as Cam Newton throws to all of the Pats WR's.
There are 39 individual players with more receiving touchdowns than the entire Patriots team.

39.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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For everyone that Harry is being compared to... how many missed half of their first year with an injury, and then had no OTA's their second year? Just curious.
Not sure why this matters. While missing time may put him behind the 8-ball, im not sure theres evidence that states he'll catch up 8-12 months later. Often, lost time early in a career is what derails the career permanently. Fair or not, it's his path.
 

Deathofthebambino

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For everyone that Harry is being compared to... how many missed half of their first year with an injury, and then had no OTA's their second year? Just curious.
DK Metcalf
AJ Brown
Terry McLaurin
Deebo Samuel
MeCole Hardman
Diontae Johnson
Hunter Renfrow
Darius Slayton
Travis Fulgham
Scottie Miller


I'm not giving Harry any credit for missing time with injury, but all of these guys went into their second year with no OTA's, and are contributing (in most cases, a hell of a lot more than Harry), and I should point out, every guy on this list was taken after N'Kel Harry.

The sample size is out, the combine didn't lie, the man can't get separation. He'll have a place in this league, but IMO, it will never, ever be as a #1WR, and given the talent at WR coming out in recent years, drafting a receiver in round 1 should almost guarantee you a pro bowler. This was a massive, massive swing and a miss by Bill and the scouts.
 

8slim

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For everyone that Harry is being compared to... how many missed half of their first year with an injury, and then had no OTA's their second year? Just curious.
I’m sure this has been discussed, but just how hurt was Harry last year? I know he missed half the season being on IR, but I wondered if he could’ve missed far less time had BB wanted to carry him a couple weeks. Pure speculation on my part, but I wondered if Bill parked him on IR because he looked so bad in summer camp that he thought that IR time was going a better way for him to develop, since he wasn’t going to see the field much at all.
 

Super Nomario

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I’m sure this has been discussed, but just how hurt was Harry last year? I know he missed half the season being on IR, but I wondered if he could’ve missed far less time had BB wanted to carry him a couple weeks. Pure speculation on my part, but I wondered if Bill parked him on IR because he looked so bad in summer camp that he thought that IR time was going a better way for him to develop, since he wasn’t going to see the field much at all.
This is my read on it, too. Harry was already back practicing after his preseason injury when they IR'd him. Maybe he wasn't close to healthy and really needed the time. Or maybe they realized they misjudged him coming out of school and he was nowhere near NFL-ready. I thought the latter at the time and that it was a really bad sign when it happened, and obviously Harry hasn't done anything to make me think my assumption was wrong.
 

8slim

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This is my read on it, too. Harry was already back practicing after his preseason injury when they IR'd him. Maybe he wasn't close to healthy and really needed the time. Or maybe they realized they misjudged him coming out of school and he was nowhere near NFL-ready. I thought the latter at the time and that it was a really bad sign when it happened, and obviously Harry hasn't done anything to make me think my assumption was wrong.
I’ve had similar concerns about the TEs this year.