NFL: Stafford to Rams for Two 1st Rd. Picks, One 3rd Rd. Pick, and QB Goff

radsoxfan

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Also I think you are both overrating Goff and underrating Stafford.

Stafford is good, Goff is barely competent, even with an excellent OC/HC.
Definitely. Goff is one of the worst 10 starting QBs in the league, the gap is very significant between the 2.

The Rams definitely had to overpay in picks to dump Goff, I think the extra 1st (not the 3rd).

The question from Detroit perspective is... would you rather have a late 1st and a 3rd and be able to start over at QB? Or the package they got with Goff's crappy contract stapled to it?
 

Harry Hooper

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Well that drives up Watson’s price to like 13 first rounders
Goff has played QB in a Super Bowl. Watson?

More seriously, I guess the Rams can argue that Stafford coming to them and playing on his existing deal was worth sweetening the offer to the Lions, but still.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Toughness is overrated. Being able to read coverage after 5 seasons in the league isn't. Goff is a not good QB that if you surround him with great weapons and scheme guys wide open can elevate to mediocre. DET will probably play him for a year or two before cutting him for their QB of the future.
Goff career rating = 91.5
Stafford career rating = 89.9

Not the whole story and with the coaching factored in I certainly do think Stafford is the better QB. But I think people are exaggerating Goff's inability (Bottom 10 QB as another poster stated above?? Cutting him within a year or two??). I think he's a 10-15 QB who got a stupid deal from the Rams, that is why he is perceived as worse than the reality. We'll see the answer soon enough either way.
 

JCizzle

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Goff career rating = 91.5
Stafford career rating = 89.9

Not the whole story and with the coaching factored in I certainly do think Stafford is the better QB. But I think people are exaggerating Goff's inability (Bottom 10 QB as another poster stated above?? Cutting him within a year or two??). I think he's a 10-15 QB who got a stupid deal from the Rams, that is why he is perceived as worse than the reality. We'll see the answer soon enough either way.
The coaching is absolutely what I factor in this. He was unable to perform in a top-3 system in the NFL to whatever the fuck the Lions will be running in 2021.
 

Cellar-Door

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Goff career rating = 91.5
Stafford career rating = 89.9

Not the whole story and with the coaching factored in I certainly do think Stafford is the better QB. But I think people are exaggerating Goff's inability (Bottom 10 QB as another poster stated above?? Cutting him within a year or two??). I think he's a 10-15 QB who got a stupid deal from the Rams, that is why he is perceived as worse than the reality. We'll see the answer soon enough either way.
Beyond not thinking passer rating has that much value, comparing careers over 12 vs 5 years isn't that useful in talking about current ability.
Last 2 years:
Passer Rating: Goff 88.1, Stafford 99.8
ANY/A: Goff 6.37, Stafford 7.33
TD%- Goff 3.5, Stafford 5.4
INT%- Goff 2.5, Stafford 1.8

He's a much better player
 

streeter88

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It does seem an overpay but wasn’t there some competition for Stafford? I don’t have a source but I thought it was mentioned on this board that the 49ers were also interested.
 

radsoxfan

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Not the whole story and with the coaching factored in I certainly do think Stafford is the better QB. But I think people are exaggerating Goff's inability (Bottom 10 QB as another poster stated above?? Cutting him within a year or two??).
I'd love to see the list of starting QBs in the NFL you would prefer Goff over. No chance he is in the top half of NFL starting QBs.
 

GrandSlamPozo

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I think that's silly. If Stafford was the QB from the SB year, they likely win the whole thing.
Even if this statement was something that could actually be measured and verified rather than baseless speculation, it still means nothing in terms of the Rams prospects going forward and doesn't weigh the fact that Stafford is quickly approaching an age where most QBs begin to drop off a cliff. Especially given that he's not exactly a paragon of physical fitness. Edit: Guess he's actually improved his physique quite a bit... still wouldn't really count on him having more than a few good years in the tank, though.
 
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JCizzle

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Even if this statement was something that could actually be measured and verified rather than baseless speculation, it still means nothing in terms of the Rams prospects going forward and doesn't weigh the fact that Stafford is quickly approaching an age where most QBs begin to drop off a cliff. Especially given that he's not exactly a paragon of physical fitness.
I think the statement is about equally valid as the fact he has zero playoff wins for a horrible organization that he had no control over. He didn't build the roster or pick those coaches.
 

luckiestman

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How pissed do we think Goff is at having to move to Detroit for 5 to 6 months per year?
 

E5 Yaz

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I never realized until today what Goff's father is famous for
 

Al Zarilla

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How pissed do we think Goff is at having to move to Detroit for 5 to 6 months per year?
Late to the thread, that's what I was thinking. California kid, went to Cal, awarded the starting job for the LA Rams almost right away, playing in the new 5 billion dollar stadium. That's all over now.
 

Silverdude2167

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Rams really make me appreciate what the Pats were able to build and sustain....the rams are such a poorly run team that hasn't had a first round pick for like 5 years or something.

The most important part of NFL team building is cheap talent and they looked at everyone else, was like nah I'm going to trade 4 first round picks for expensive Jaylen Ramsey and Stafford.
 

Average Reds

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Even if you just call it a third to get rid of Goff, 2 first for an above average starting QB in a league where Sam Bradford goes for a 1 and a 4 is maybe steep but hardly crazy.
I was getting Bradford PTSD vibes before I read your post.

I mean Goff showed his toughness playing hurt and winning against the Seahawks in the playoffs this year, no? So I'm interested to see how he performs under the new staff this year. Change of scenery could do him good. It is certainly better than what his situation in LA would be going forward.
And I'm getting Carson Wentz PTSD from this one.

Kind of amazing that the QBs who went 1 and 2 in the 2016 draft (Goff and Wentz) both flamed out spectacularly and are now seen as anchors
 

JimD

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How pissed do we think Goff is at having to move to Detroit for 5 to 6 months per year?
Maybe it will be good for him to be pushed out of LA and have his life shaken up a bit.

Plus, the pizza will be a serious upgrade.
 

BaseballJones

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I don't understand how this will impact Watson's trade value. If people think that this was a massive overpay by the Rams, and you're the GM of, say, the Dolphins, why would you now suddenly trade more for Watson simply because the Rams made a stupid trade? Sure, Houston can ask for more now, but if everyone else in the league thinks that the Rams were dumb, that doesn't mean that anyone is going to give Houston what they're asking for.

Now don't misunderstand...I think Watson should garner a HAUL. But not because the Rams were stupid here.
 

tims4wins

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Man, if DET can either draft a good QB this year, trade out and pick up a bunch more future picks, or tank this season (or some combo of these), they could really set themselves up for a great future that would start at the end of Rodgers run in GB.

We live in a works where DET and CLE might be well run organizations. We are through the looking glass.
Think we need to pump the breaks here, they just hired Dan Campbell as their HC.

What does the 2022 college QB class look like? With this HC-QB combo, I am thinking Detroit is going to be a 3 win team at best this year, and a strong contender for the #1 overall pick next year. So then they can dump Goff and pick the best QB next year. I know that still means eating some Goff salary but it is what it is. Still a good deal on their part, maybe even better if it improves their draft position next year.
 

Sandwich Pick

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I was getting Bradford PTSD vibes before I read your post.



And I'm getting Carson Wentz PTSD from this one.

Kind of amazing that the QBs who went 1 and 2 in the 2016 draft (Goff and Wentz) both flamed out spectacularly and are now seen as anchors
Both teams traded up to get them. Both teams extended them too early.
 

snowmanny

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As opposed to Dak Prescott in the same draft, who was just picked along the way and the team waited to0 long to try to extend...
 

mauf

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The Rams are badly run. Their trade for Ramsey was goofy and this is arguably worse.I get that you don't want to waste Donald's window, but this trade is bananas.

Goff is average. Stafford might be slightly beyond that. Spending two firsts on this upgrade is odd as hell.
If you believe the conventional wisdom on the two QBs then of course it’s a dumb deal for the Rams. The news here is that McVay* is making a massive bet against Jared Goff. As others have said, if you think about it as a 1st rounder to unload Goff’s contract, the balance of the package is about what Stafford was expected to fetch (someone would have offered an earlier 1st than the Rams’ pick, so they had to sweeten the pot).

This deal certainly suggests Philly is stuck with Carson Wentz for another year unless Wentz wants out badly enough to walk away from guaranteed money. Because Wentz was a helluva lot worse than Goff this season and has had enough serious injuries that one has to wonder if his problems are physical (and hence unfixable).


*- I realize McVay doesn’t have full control of personnel, but this deal doesn’t happen unless he’s actively pushing to move on from Goff.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I dont think theres much we can extrapolate from Goff and Stafford numbers. Aside from the difference in coaches, teams, years, etc, theres also the nearly impossible task of figuring out how much of Staffords statistical value was derived from all the garbage time he played in.

I think we all agree Stafford is the superior quarterback. How this plays out? Completely up in the air.
 

EvilEmpire

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Yeah, that really is an awesome video. It is hard not to like Stafford. I don't know how much more he has in the tank, but I hope he tears it up down in LA.
 
How many times have two starting-level QBs been involved in the same trade? I can only find two other trades like this, and neither really worked for either team:

--In 2015, the Rams (again!) traded Sam Bradford to the Eagles for Nick Foles, along with some late-round pick swaps. (Foles wound up getting benched for Case Keenum; Bradford started for one season in Philly, then was shipped to the Vikings after the Eagles drafted Wentz.)
--In 1980, the Oilers traded Dan Pastorini to the Raiders for Ken Stabler in a straight-up challenge trade. Houston actually made the playoffs that year even though Stabler threw 28 INTs (!), but they lost in round one...to Oakland, for whom Jim Plunkett was now starting after Pastorini played in only five games before being injured (and was then cut in the offseason).

So...caveat emptor, I guess.
 

tims4wins

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Speaking of the Lions, my dad just suggested the Pats make an offer for Trey Flowers. I think it’s a great idea. Wouldn’t have to pay for his bonus, likely wouldn’t cost a high draft pick.
 

glennhoffmania

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I mean why call it “Stafford dealt for Goff and picks” when you can put all the details in title?
It's really comical. What's the point of "2021 NFL"? In case someone thought this may happen in the future?

As for the trade, yeah it's nuts. The upgrade to Stafford ain't worth this.
 

kelpapa

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It's really comical. What's the point of "2021 NFL"? In case someone thought this may happen in the future?
Most of the threads on this forum start with something similar. I think it was an effort that started this year to make things more organized.
 

Al Zarilla

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How many times have two starting-level QBs been involved in the same trade? I can only find two other trades like this, and neither really worked for either team:

--In 2015, the Rams (again!) traded Sam Bradford to the Eagles for Nick Foles, along with some late-round pick swaps. (Foles wound up getting benched for Case Keenum; Bradford started for one season in Philly, then was shipped to the Vikings after the Eagles drafted Wentz.)
--In 1980, the Oilers traded Dan Pastorini to the Raiders for Ken Stabler in a straight-up challenge trade. Houston actually made the playoffs that year even though Stabler threw 28 INTs (!), but they lost in round one...to Oakland, for whom Jim Plunkett was now starting after Pastorini played in only five games before being injured (and was then cut in the offseason).

So...caveat emptor, I guess.
Norn Snead to the Eagles for Sonny Jurgensen (HOF) to the Redskins before the 1964 season. What was Philadelphia thinking? Jurgensen did have a reputation for partying, chewing out teammates and he had a bit of a pot belly but he was a phenomenal passer throughout his career.
 

tims4wins

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Most of the threads on this forum start with something similar. I think it was an effort that started this year to make things more organized.
Yeah SSF has been doing this all year. Why, I know not, since we don’t do it in any other forum.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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It's really comical. What's the point of "2021 NFL"? In case someone thought this may happen in the future?
What makes it better is that this is an edited version of the original title. Everything was spelled out originally. It was like five lines long on my phone.
 

cheech13

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It’s fun to dunk on the Rams for all the traded first round picks, but they made the Super Bowl two years ago and have been consistently good under Snead and McVay. An upgrade at QB could easily get them back to the top of the NFC. Maybe it wasn’t great value wise but I get why they did it.
 

Toe Nash

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I would have some concern about Stafford's mileage if I were the Rams. He's 32, but he was a FT starter at age 21 so he's only started 25 games fewer than Aaron Rodgers who we think of as up there. He also has just thrown a lot because he was their entire offense and they were often behind.

He's obviously played through a lot of injuries and not missed many games but he takes a lot of sacks and he like, broke his back a couple years ago. Maybe all QBs are like that and they're only hoping he lasts a couple more years but it could blow up in their face if he misses time.
 

BillWarDamnEagleJay

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I would have some concern about Stafford's mileage if I were the Rams. He's 32, but he was a FT starter at age 21 so he's only started 25 games fewer than Aaron Rodgers who we think of as up there. He also has just thrown a lot because he was their entire offense and they were often behind.
40 fewer starts than Rogers if playoffs are included. But the real optimistic view re Stafford's mileage is realizing he has fewer than half the starts of TB12.
 

Silverdude2167

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It’s fun to dunk on the Rams for all the traded first round picks, but they made the Super Bowl two years ago and have been consistently good under Snead and McVay. An upgrade at QB could easily get them back to the top of the NFC. Maybe it wasn’t great value wise but I get why they did it.
They are really at the end of their window and have now basically made sure they won't be good in a few years. We have seen the talent drain on the Pats and that is just from picking at the end of the first round.

Now best case you are not picking till the end of the second round and the cap situation is already crap, you can only be competitive for so long without young cheap players producing.
 

BaseballJones

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They are really at the end of their window and have now basically made sure they won't be good in a few years. We have seen the talent drain on the Pats and that is just from picking at the end of the first round.

Now best case you are not picking till the end of the second round and the cap situation is already crap, you can only be competitive for so long without young cheap players producing.
It’s amazing. That Rams team was on the rise with a ton of young talent and a dynamic young coach. And in a short amount of time, their window is closing.

What the Patriots did for 19 years was just unfathomable.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I'd love to see the list of starting QBs in the NFL you would prefer Goff over. No chance he is in the top half of NFL starting QBs.
So many teams are in flux, but I think I had one too many beers last night when reviewing the QBs list. It would be a bit of a stretch to reach the top 15 after going through the list. I get Goff as the 19th ranked QB on this run, but also think with the offseason QB activity still to take place any ranking before training camp is probably premature. These are who I would put behind him, if you are looking at the next 1-2 years. Tua/Hurts/Jones I have to see more from, but think Burrow showed he's the real deal in his limited time and I'd put him just ahead of Goff already. Big Ben I'd rank ahead if he was 33, but at 39 to start next season and Y/A sliding big time the past 2 seasons, I don't know if he will stay healthy and/or effective for another full season:

Washington starting QB (Smith/other).
Sam Darnold
Tua Tagovailoa
SF starting QB (Jimmy G/Beathard)
Philly starting QB (Hurts/Wentz)
NE starting QB (Newton/???)
Jacksonville starting QB (Glennon/Minshew)
Teddy Bridgewater
Daniel Jones
Mitch Trubisky
Drew Lock
Ben Roethlisberger
Saints starting QB (Brees if playing or Hill)
Colts starting QB (Brissett?)

Where would you rank Stafford as far as overall QB rankings? My gut is he would be top half somewhere just outside the top 10. And I wonder aloud if:
a) That upgrade is enough to push the Rams over the top with their lack of flexibility due to the cap, and
b) After going through 3 administrations with the Lions, do the Rams and himself fully know Stafford's strengths and the compatibility with McVay's offense?

In any case, the Rams are a bit lacking on the self-scouting based on now needing to abort 2 big contracts in consecutive seasons (Gurley's and Goff's) halfway through.