NFL announces new punishments for games that are PPD for covid next season

Marciano490

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IIRC the two teams are Washington and Indianapolis
I smell a banner...!

As for Judon, being a homer a can see how someone could be pro vaxx but anti their union allowing the non-forfeiting team to lose their paychecks too. I’d be pretty pissed at that if I were a player.
 

tims4wins

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That didn't take long.

These Vax deniers are really unbelievable. There are so many of them.
My parents and sister are unvaxxed. A lot of my extended family is too (despite being extremely cautious about Covid last summer).
 
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johnmd20

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I believe in the future of the NFL and support their decision with this policy.
My mom is not a anti vaxxer and got her shot in February. But she was a Fox news watcher and last year literally almost broke up my family. My sister and brother stopped talking to her in the 4th quarter of last year. Due to this, she hasn't been watching it this year and everyone is getting along so much better. That network is just so toxic. Anti vaxxers are toxic.

What do anti-vax people think the endgame is with vaccines?
 
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Haunted

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I know the Hopkins quote was deleted, but "being put in a position to hurt my team because I don't want the vaccine" is such a ridiculously braindead thing to say.


What about putting yourself in a position to hurt your team by giving them COVID?
 

koufax32

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The only thing close to a legitimate complaint is for those who have already had Covid. It seems like, if I understand the rule, that natural immunity means nothing in this calculus. We don’t know exactly what that immunity looks like but it’s hard to defend a position that says someone with a J&J shot is in an exponentially better place than someone who already had Covid.
 

joe dokes

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As for Judon, being a homer a can see how someone could be pro vaxx but anti their union allowing the non-forfeiting team to lose their paychecks too. I’d be pretty pissed at that if I were a player.
That *is* a threadable needle. But I'm doubtful he's sewing here.

That network is just so toxic. Anti vaxxers are toxic.
What do anti-vax people think the endgame is with vaccines?
They think vaccines are toxic.
 

joe dokes

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I certainly don’t mean to game thread, but that was very well done. Take a bow.

To get back on track, I wonder if anti-vaccine players could potentially create some wiggle room on the issue by taking their stance to court?
I think a lawsuit by individual players is a longshot. As far as I can tell (from reading this thread) the penalties aren't against them. Nor is the league forcing them to get vaccinated. Maybe there's a shred of hope concerning the "nobody gets paid" language. But, as that is tied to "cancellations caused by the unvaccinated" I think it survives legal challenge, at least until a team gets hit, and the players question "how did they know how it was caused."

This is going to make some strange vaccine-opposed bedfellows. But it is nice to see a visible institution like the NFL be leading (as best as it can) on a public health issue for a change. (unlike, say, brain injury and domestic violence).
 
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axx

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My thinking is that this is the NFL saying they won't be rescheduling games, let alone cancelling because of positive tests unless a team can't field enough players. Could have another situation where a team has no starting QB.
 

Section30

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How about the already vaccinated getting Covid? The first 200 cases in New York with the Delta variant had 40 patients who had both shots.
 

lexrageorge

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How about the already vaccinated getting Covid? The first 200 cases in New York with the Delta variant had 40 patients who had both shots.
Seems like the team will not be punished in that case. Such cases are nearly always minor anyway, and the league just said they player will be able to go back once they clear the protocol, which is much less stringent for vaccinated players.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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My mom is not a anti vaxxer and got her shot in February. But she was a Fox news watcher and last year literally almost broke up my family. My sister and brother stopped talking to her in the 4th quarter of last year. Due to this, she hasn't been watching it this year and everyone is getting along so much better. That network is just so toxic. Anti vaxxers are toxic.

What do anti-vax people think the endgame is with vaccines?
Not only that, what do they think the endgame is with the VIRUS? No endgame? "Suck it up buttercup"? "Survival of the fittest"?
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I imagine a lot of players feel similar regardless of vaccination status. They are not going to like a potential forfeit. Not to many losing a paycheck when you've done nothing wrong.
Judon didn't seem to strenuously object to this other vaccine protocol not applicable to him; can't read his mind, but his issue may be more with the union bowing down to the league than the vaccine itself.

42840
 

Captaincoop

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Not only that, what do they think the endgame is with the VIRUS? No endgame? "Suck it up buttercup"? "Survival of the fittest"?
Take this to V&N. What does anyone think the endgame with the virus is? Do you think it's going away?

This move by the NFL should be non-controversial. Lots of workplaces are making even stronger vaccine policies than this.
 

Cellar-Door

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Judon may not be vaccinated, BUT.... as in-favor as I am of the policy, the Union is weak, and the Union agreeing to no paychecks for either side in the event of a forfeit should piss off the players, that gamecheck is the bulk of what many guys make, and you could practice all week, then not get paid.

I would bet some of the smart owners will just pay the guys anyway out of the money they get from the forfeiting team.
 

BusRaker

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I'm going to guess that > 75% of the union believe in the vaccine and want to play football but still respect the freedoms and steep penalties. This would be a very difficult decision for them to make (if it came to a union-wide vote ... this was probably approved by the 32 player reps)
 

ragnarok725

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Yeah I feel like it’s going to be hard to enforce this. There’s no way the NFLPA will just say ‘ok’ to this, is there? Is it really possible to penalize players on team X for ‘conduct detrimental’ by a players on team Y? That seems to have a lot of problems.
I'm not one to cry for the owners' wallets but why should they bear the burden completely? If a game gets cancelled there's no revenue. If there's no revenue why should the players be paid? The players should have some skin in the game, too, even if it means they get screwed over if they're on the other side of it, same as the owners.
 

BaseballJones

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What happens if an outbreak occurs amongst players who HAVE been vaccinated? The vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing the spread of COVID 19 which I assume the NFL does not know since science is not their forte. Do they still bring the hammer down?
If this was the MLB rule, the Yankees, who have had a ton of fully vaccinated personnel get Covid anyway, would be paying a steep price and would be impacting other innocent teams a ton.

There’s a lot of problems with the NFL’s approach here. Not that I know what the right approach should be.
 

8slim

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If this was the MLB rule, the Yankees, who have had a ton of fully vaccinated personnel get Covid anyway, would be paying a steep price and would be impacting other innocent teams a ton.

There’s a lot of problems with the NFL’s approach here. Not that I know what the right approach should be.
The NFL used the word “unvaccinated” multiple times.
 

8slim

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Ah ok I’m sorry. I missed that.

So to be clear, this rule only applies to unvaccinated people?
To me, it seems intentionally vague and open to league interpretation.

I think they’re giving themselves the ability to punish a team that has a massive outbreak among unvaccinated players, that causes the roster to be so incapacitated that the team can’t play as regularly scheduled.

If a scenario like that occurred on a team that’s over the 85% threshold I suspect the league would be much more accommodating.

*edit* on second thought, it’s not vague at all, intentionally so! The language is precise for a reason.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Ah ok I’m sorry. I missed that.

So to be clear, this rule only applies to unvaccinated people?
Yes. The whole point is that if you took the basic step of getting vaccinated, you won’t be punished even if you got a breakthrough outbreak, but if you didn’t, then that’s on you. Which I think is a sensible approach.
 

lexrageorge

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Ah ok I’m sorry. I missed that.

So to be clear, this rule only applies to unvaccinated people?
The answer is a bit more complicated. From the memo:

View: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1418260128470642689


...
In light of the substantial roster flexibility in place for the 2021 season, absent medical considerations or government directives, games will not be postponed or rescheduled simply to avoid roster issues due to injury or illness....
...
If a game is cancelled or postponed because a club cannot play due to a CoVid spike among or resulting from its unvaccinated players/staff, then the burden of the cancellation or delay will fall on the club experiencing the CoVid infection. We will seek to minimize the competitive and economic burden on the opposing club...If a club cannot play due to a CoVid spike among its vaccinated individuals, we will attempt to minimize the competitive and economic burden on both teams.
...
If a game cannot be rescheduled within the current 18-week schedule and is cancelled due to a CoVid outbreak among non-vaccinated players on one of the opposing teams, the club with the outbreak will forfeit the contest and will deemed to have played 16 games for purposes of draft, waiver priority, etc. For the purposes of playoff seeding, the forfeiting team will be credited with a loss and the other team will be credited with a win
...
If a game is cancelled and cannot be rescheduled within the current 18-week scheduled due to a Covid outbreak, neither team’s players will receive their weekly paragraph 5 salary
So, the vaccinated players on a team that has to forfeit do lose out as well. They don't get paid, and they potentially will miss out on playoff incentives as well. Also, vaccinated players on the opposing team don't get paid, which really sucks for them. So the complaints about the NFLPA could very well be due to the possibility that even vaccinated players on fully vaccinated teams could lose paychecks.
 

SMU_Sox

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Not only that, what do they think the endgame is with the VIRUS? No endgame? "Suck it up buttercup"? "Survival of the fittest"?
I follow way too much news and politics and I don’t want to V&N anything but since you asked… a Newsmax host recently opined that some viruses and diseases are maybe just meant to wipe a certain number of people out.

Others are afraid for various reasons. It’s low social trust usually as the common denominator but different groups have different reasons for why they have low social trust. Where is Reverend when you need him? Caroline Orr talked about this if you want to find her on Twitter. She does a good job recapping it.
 

Cellar-Door

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I follow way too much news and politics and I don’t want to V&N anything but since you asked… a Newsmax host recently opined that some viruses and diseases are maybe just meant to wipe a certain number of people out.

Others are afraid for various reasons. It’s low social trust usually as the common denominator but different groups have different reasons for why they have low social trust. Where is Reverend when you need him? Caroline Orr talked about this if you want to find her on Twitter. She does a good job recapping it.
One of the issues is that people treat viruses like they are all the same. Some never get herd immunity, they mutate and reoccur forever unless you eliminate them with vaccines. Smallpox is a great example, as is Polio people would still be dropping dead of smallpox and getting paralyzed by polio left and right if we had the same low levels of vaccine adoption as people are embracing with COVID.
 

SumnerH

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Smallpox is a great example, as is Polio people would still be dropping dead of smallpox and getting paralyzed by polio left and right if we had the same low levels of vaccine adoption as people are embracing with COVID.
Maybe, maybe not. With polio it was the attenuated life vaccine (Sabin) that really turned the tide. While live attenuated vaccines have downsides, they also are able to spread to close contacts and provide passive vaccination to people who were not themselves vaccinated. So your overall vaccination rate can be higher than the number of people who willingly take the vaccine (essentially "infecting" non-vaccinated people with the vaccine).

For several weeks after vaccination the vaccine virus replicates in the intestine, is excreted and can be spread to others in close contact. This means that in areas with poor hygiene and sanitation, immunization with OPV can result in ‘passive’ immunization of people who have not been vaccinated

https://polioeradication.org/polio-today/polio-prevention/the-vaccines/opv/

A particularly virulent vaccine might be one approach to dealing with vaccine hesitancy.
 

Oil Can Dan

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What about a scenario where two teams scheduled to play each other both have a Covid breakout amongst an equal amount of unvaccinated players?
 

BlackJack

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What about a scenario where two teams scheduled to play each other both have a Covid breakout amongst an equal amount of unvaccinated players?
Call it a tie. Or give each team a loss. It would mess with playoff scenarios and draft order a bit but would seem reasonably manageable.