NBA offseason thread

bowiac

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Tony C said:
I agree. He's hitting a lot of singles and not digging the Knicks deeper. And maybe Porzingis will turn into a home run. The problem is he sort of needs a more immediate home run to combine with Anthony, and that seems unlikely. I guess the plan could be to have a solid season maybe even be in playoff contention in the east, and use that to attract a more high profile free agent next year.
While I agree he's not digging the Knicks deeper, I'm not wild about any of his moves other than O'Quinn either. Derrick Williams seems like Evan Turner 2.0, and Afflalo doesn't help either. Robin Lopez is a good player, but is probably paid fairly. O''Quinn's the only potential value of the bunch it seems.
 

PedroKsBambino

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When evaluating these moves it's important to remember that teams are in different places and thus value different things:  Knicks have a problem, which is they need to win soon to placate Carmelo.  This means they do well to get production, even if it isn't optimal value.   Cleveland is in the same boat (which is why Joe Johnson makes sense for them and almost no one else).   Truly rebuilding teams can look at deals and feel it is a success only if there's true value at the salary level.   Not every team is in the same place and we need to look at their moves against their objectives and current situation
 
Point being, it's a little more complicated than expected production/AAV for many teams.  
 

pdaj

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From Springfield to Providence
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13202763/cleveland-cavaliers-interested-joe-johnson-brooklyn-nets
 
Joe Johnson to the Cavs, possibly?
 
The Nets are actively looking to move Johnson to reduce their tax burden this upcoming season as they are facing paying the repeater tax, which would be the most punitive luxury penalty in league history. The Nets have held talks with several teams, including the Memphis Grizzlies, sources told ESPN's Marc Stein.
 
 

One possible option for the Cavs would be sending big man Anderson Varejao to the Nets in such a deal. Varejao will make $9.6 million this upcoming season as part of an extension he signed last year. Varejao suffered a ruptured Achilles tendon in December but is on track to return by the start of the season.
 
 

bowiac

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This would fit Haywood and Varejao's contracts pretty perfectly.
 
Joe Johnson has a Malone to the Lakers kind of feel, but that's irrational.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Definitely think good---in addition to taking away one of Nets better players, it also signals that they care about lux tax, reducing chance they do much to improve.   Though, dropoff from Johnson to next guy not what it might have been a couple years ago...
 

radsoxfan

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I'd definitely be happy if the Nets trade Johnson.  Probably only makes them marginally worse, but it's an even more clear sign they don't care as much about winning as decreasing their tax burden. They would be a Brook Lopez injury away from being REALLY bad next season. 
 
Dan Gilbert on the other hand, is going to pay a ton of money in contracts/tax next year it seems. 
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Cellar-Door said:
Probably good. The Nets are really lacking in scoring without Johnson.
 
Shooting especially. And RHJ won't help in that department. JJ is certainly in decline but at least you know what you're getting with him. Now replacing those 35 minutes with question marks.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Makes sense for Cleveland---Johnson would have been a huge addition in the finals, and even with a healthy Love and Irving having a legit bench scorer will help them a lot.

Whether that's worth what it'll cost them is really about Lebron's happiness---if he wants this move, Lebron + JJ is worth the cost because Lebron is worth something incredible to the franchise on his own.
 

Drocca

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Do you guys really think Phil and/or the Knicks are under pressure to 'hit a home run' now to try and win with Carmelo? Carmelo Anthony is not winning anything, and I think they are doing a fair job of building for the future while he is there.
 

HomeRunBaker

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lovegtm said:
If they don't make the playoffs, but Carmelo has a healthy season, doesn't he become extremely tradeable?
Carmelo has a full no-trade clause in his contract so the first thing Phil needs to do is receive a list of teams where he is willing to go......and his wife will likely have a big say in this list. He said he'd be open to a trade last year and I'd be looking to move him prior to training camp or by the deadline to bring back another solid young player and to replenish draft picks. You have solid NBA starters in Lopez and Afflalo now, the latter who should bounce back from last season where he really didn't have a role......can add another for Melo, Calderon is a place holder at the 1 and a budding star in Porzingis. This gives Phil something to sell to big name FA next summer and the following when the cap increases.

The Knicks can be in a good spot if they do the right thing......and if Carmelo allows them to do the right thing.
 

Cellar-Door

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https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/617873845161037824
 
WOW!
16M a year for Reggie Jackson when he had no other bidders? WHY?
 

ifmanis5

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That is a ton of money for a guy who has a lot to prove. Never even started for a whole season. Rondo must be dry heaving right now.
 

HomeRunBaker

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soxhop411

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Cellar-Door said:
Jordan or Paul?
Both. But if Jordan took less money because he wasn't being high fived enough he is an idiot. Work things out.
 

Cellar-Door

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soxhop411 said:
Both. But if Jordan took less money because he wasn't being high fived enough he is an idiot. Work things out.
He really did it for a better role. The money is probably a wash and might even favor Dallas considering the 13.3% income tax. It is a year shorter, but that's probably in Jordan's favor.
 

HomeRunBaker

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soxhop411 said:
Both. But if Jordan took less money because he wasn't being high fived enough he is an idiot. Work things out.
I sure am glad Tom Brady didn't have this mindset.
 

RG33

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soxhop411 said:
Both. But if Jordan took less money because he wasn't being high fived enough he is an idiot. Work things out.
I would think it was the larger picture that the guy hated playing with CP3 because CP3 was a dick. I mean, if you have the choice of deciding on who your co-workers will be for the next 4 years who you have to spend inordinate amounts of time with, that would play a role in things for me. On top of that, the money is a wash as others have mentioned because of taxes and he gets to be a UFA again in 2019 at age 32. I don't know if it will work out for him, but I don't get why everyone is busting on him for leaving the Clippers.
 

Cellar-Door

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Reardons Beard said:
What's the skinny on Marc Gasol? One year deal and revisits higher max next year?
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/618152442820206593
5 years 100+
 

Cellar-Door

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The fucking Spurs.
https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/618153935048699904
 
West Opts out of 12M, signs for the minimum.
 

nattysez

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Basketball Ref says he's made over $87mm over the course of his career.  That helps explain why he's willing to leave ~$10mm on the table for a chance at a ring. 
 

radsoxfan

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I guess.  Obviously the importance of earning more money decreases once you have already made that much.  Bu the guy is still giving up >10% of his lifetime earnings for possibility of a title. Pretty nuts if you ask me.  Can't imagine his agent is thrilled….
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Good for West, good for the Spurs.
 
This isn't a bunch of young guys teaming up and gunning for a title. West has been doing this for 12 years, he's been faithful to two teams (8 years with the hornets, 4 with Indy), and has - to my knowledge - always been a good soldier. A veteran going out to chase a ring is OK in my book.
 

Tony C

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RGREELEY33 said:
I would think it was the larger picture that the guy hated playing with CP3 because CP3 was a dick. I mean, if you have the choice of deciding on who your co-workers will be for the next 4 years who you have to spend inordinate amounts of time with, that would play a role in things for me. On top of that, the money is a wash as others have mentioned because of taxes and he gets to be a UFA again in 2019 at age 32. I don't know if it will work out for him, but I don't get why everyone is busting on him for leaving the Clippers.
 
Please. I have no idea how nice/not nice CP3 is, but Boston is a town in which we know guys like Garnett and Brady berate their teammates and are celebrated for it. Since Doc arrived in L.A. he basically saved Jordan's career (or do people here forget how horrified Celtics fans were at the time at the idea of having to accept Jordan in that deal?). He ended Del Negro's benchings, buttered him up endlessly in the media, had all the pub for the team be about the Clippers three stars, stuck with him through the free throws, and basically used him perfectly -- maximizing his strengths and minimizing his faults. I have no problem with a guy not wanting to play with, say, Kobe -- a selfish player on the court who undermines teammates' games, takes all the credit if they win, and throws them under the bus if they lose. CP3 may have been a competitive hard ass at times, like a million other great players, but on court he made Jordan a much better player and never threw him under the bus. If he was sometimes a meanie, DJ should grow up and deal with it. He left a much better basketball situation because of high-fives and not liking a guy? That's the definition of a loser.
 

Tony C

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Good for West, good for the Spurs.
 
This isn't a bunch of young guys teaming up and gunning for a title. West has been doing this for 12 years, he's been faithful to two teams (8 years with the hornets, 4 with Indy), and has - to my knowledge - always been a good soldier. A veteran going out to chase a ring is OK in my book.
 
Amen. Always loved that guy and this is just another reason for it. The Spurs are just so damn cool. 
 

GBrushTWood

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Very impressive depth move for the Spurs and a very unselfish move for David West. Ostensibly, you would think West is redundant on a roster with both Duncan and Aldridge as West is almost the prototypical 4/power forward. With the Warriors and the rest of the league now playing small, it doesn't seem having these 3 guys on the court together makes sense.
 
But by adding LaMarcus Aldridge and David West, they now have the capability to give Duncan ample rest from November thru March. Once April rolls around, they have positioned themselves to have everybody healthy for a last major push for another ring. I don't think you will see them playing together very often though, which I am sure Popovich can figure out.
 

ifmanis5

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If you were curious, Duncan's MPG since 2010: 28.4, 28.2, 30.1, 29.2, 28.9. I think 25-27 range might be expected for next season.
 

RG33

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Tony C said:
Please. I have no idea how nice/not nice CP3
Right. But DJ did. And he apparently chose not to deal with him for the next 4 years for comparable money and the chance to be "the guy". Brady and Garnett were total ball-busters, but pretty universally beloved by their teammates. Much like Kobe, there's been a lot of smoke around the "CP3 is a dick", and being that he is the face of the franchise, there isn't anything any other players will be able to do about it. All I'm saying is that I don't fault the guy for factoring that into his decision.
 

Cellar-Door

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Tony C said:
 
Please. I have no idea how nice/not nice CP3 is, but Boston is a town in which we know guys like Garnett and Brady berate their teammates and are celebrated for it. Since Doc arrived in L.A. he basically saved Jordan's career (or do people here forget how horrified Celtics fans were at the time at the idea of having to accept Jordan in that deal?). He ended Del Negro's benchings, buttered him up endlessly in the media, had all the pub for the team be about the Clippers three stars, stuck with him through the free throws, and basically used him perfectly -- maximizing his strengths and minimizing his faults. I have no problem with a guy not wanting to play with, say, Kobe -- a selfish player on the court who undermines teammates' games, takes all the credit if they win, and throws them under the bus if they lose. CP3 may have been a competitive hard ass at times, like a million other great players, but on court he made Jordan a much better player and never threw him under the bus. If he was sometimes a meanie, DJ should grow up and deal with it. He left a much better basketball situation because of high-fives and not liking a guy? That's the definition of a loser.
Umm. CP3 constantly throws guys under the bus. He has histrionics every time he thinks someone makes a mistake, then goes into hero ball mode late in games and when they lose he's constantly sulking and making as if his teammates let him down. He's the single biggest on floor asshole in the league. Everything is someone else's fault. He missed a shot? It was because the ref didn't give him a foul, or he didn't like the screen that was set, or he only took it because nobody else wanted the ball.
 

Kliq

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It should be said that Jordan has had some personality issues of his own, if him and CP3 didn't get along I would hesitate to dump all of the blame on Paul.
 
I love the move with West, not just for the money, but it also shows that West is going to come in and do whatever it takes to win. He will do the dirty work and enjoy doing it, and will add more veteran leadership and toughness to the lineup. The Spurs are winning the offseason not just because they are getting a bunch of good players, but because they are getting good players that are going to fit right into what they want to do as a team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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RGREELEY33 said:
Right. But DJ did. And he apparently chose not to deal with him for the next 4 years for comparable money and the chance to be "the guy". Brady and Garnett were total ball-busters, but pretty universally beloved by their teammates. Much like Kobe, there's been a lot of smoke around the "CP3 is a dick", and being that he is the face of the franchise, there isn't anything any other players will be able to do about it. All I'm saying is that I don't fault the guy for factoring that into his decision.
How many days (or hours) into training camp before DeAndre is hoping Raymond Felton is the nicest guy on the planet to offset his lack of creativity and errant lob passes over those of Chris Paul?

The grass isn't always greener big fella. While I'm at it I feel Aldridge and the Spurs (or Pop in particular) aren't going to be the greatest marriage with his iso and pounding style a contrast of the ball movement which is a Spurs staple.
 

Blacken

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/steps on soapbox

SPUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURS

/steps off soapbox
 

Blacken

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https://twitter.com/hpbasketball/status/618188972980768769
 

dcmissle

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Tony C said:
 
Amen. Always loved that guy and this is just another reason for it. The Spurs are just so damn cool. 
+1.

Awesome. Now watch him get ripped.

Because he just put the lie to the notion that it is all about the money every damn time for everyone.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I am concerned that age is finally going to catch up with the Spurs and that they won't be as much of a Juggernaut they appear on paper.