National Celtics discourse

bankshot1

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Going forward I think it fair we refer to Luka as "Oncic" as the D is silent.

I would love to see a no doubt 48 minute Celtic clinic and coronation Friday night.

They shoot horses don't they?

Its time to put the Mavs out of their misery.
 

Van Everyman

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I can't get over how just a week ago it was gospel with this same media that he was the #2-4 player in the league, and you were a blaspheming heretic if you even mentioned Golden Boy's defense.
Since we’re talking about narratives, I actually think it was the tweets after game 2 of Luka getting blown by 13 times going viral that started the turnaround. You had Doris referring to his defense on the telecast last night. And the Windhorst rant last night following Luka’s implosion on the court and in his presser kind of blew it into the mainstream.

Very few media members will actually own their mistakes and pre-series hot takes. But assuming the Celtics take care of business on Friday, I think the narrative has finally begun to shift.
 

Auger34

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Lowe managed to lead his reaction pod with the greatest hits. Luka was wronged, Luka doesn’t play defense because he’s hurt (lol), C’s haven’t played anyone this postseason, and the 4Q was who this team really is. It gets a bit better deeper in the show, but he can’t help himself.
This is so disappointing
 

Jimbodandy

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This is so disappointing
It really shouldn't be. Our team is up 3-0 in the Finals. Just keep in mind that everyone that makes a living based on eyes on their work will basically write/say whatever they need to in order to get eyes on their work. It makes it easier to consume media like this when you realize that the content is fundamentally unserious and designed to optimize engagement. Even Windhorst--who's firing shots at Luka now--is only doing it because he thinks that it benefits Windhorst.
 

lovegtm

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Lowe managed to lead his reaction pod with the greatest hits. Luka was wronged, Luka doesn’t play defense because he’s hurt (lol), C’s haven’t played anyone this postseason, and the 4Q was who this team really is. It gets a bit better deeper in the show, but he can’t help himself.
The weirdest part is how he feels obligated to intone that Luka is "the best player in the series". It's a religious mantra, not analysis.

The evidence is piling up that Luka has severe defensive flaws that other elite players in the league simply don't have. It's an insult to the conditioning and defensive work Jokic put in to even put them in the same sentence, for example.
 

bakahump

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The wind is indeed beginning to turn. The Celts arent out of it yet. They need to take one game at a time and stack some wins. Dallas showed a slight chink in the armor last night and its now we will see if the Celts can turn this around and take advantage. Its not over. I still have hope that JT, JB and the support staff will show up for these finals.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I was thinking about this yet again this morning (heaven knows why)...

One part of it is this "zero sum" mindset that, since Team A beat Team B who beat Team C, Team A must be great. That seems to be how people were looking at the West, whereas all evidence suggests that that Dallas won a kind of random rock-paper-scissors contest between several pretty evenly-matched teams (and may in fact have been worse but benefitted from luck of the bracket, coaching malpractice and exhaustion from the other teams).

The other thing is that most pundits and fans want a close Finals, so there's a natural assumption to assume that the games will be close and come down to 'closing ability'... at which point, recently bias and Starz-bias kicks in and they just remember Luka looking awesome hitting step-back game-winning threes over Golbert and the analysis doesn't run any deeper.

edit: although Dallas wasn't a 'consensus pick'. IIRC, the punditry was evenly split, Vegas favored Boston, most of the money had come in Dallas.
I think some of it was because pundits have been focusing all season on BOS's 0-2 record versus DEN (and to a lesser extent, the two OT games versus MIN, the loss at OKC, and the blow-out by LAC when they were in their hot streak) and concluded that BOS couldn't be the historically great team that the statistics said they were - they just happened to shoot the 3P well and play in a year where the Eastern Conference suffered a bunch of injuries.

So as you point out, DEN was better than BOS and DEN got beat by MIN, who then got beat by DAL, so . . . .

I mean I get it - these folks have a lot of content to produce; a lot of branding to do; there's a ton of basketball out there and who really has the time to watch all of these teams - plus, picking DAL probably gets more views than picking BOS.

But I wonder if any of them get embarrassed at all?
 

ManicCompression

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The wind is indeed beginning to turn. The Celts arent out of it yet. They need to take one game at a time and stack some wins. Dallas showed a slight chink in the armor last night and its now we will see if the Celts can turn this around and take advantage. Its not over. I still have hope that JT, JB and the support staff will show up for these finals.
100% - once they take this from a 10 game playoff win streak to a 20 game playoff win streak, we'll start to get an indication that they're truly ready for the sport's biggest stage and compete for a championship.
 

rodderick

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The weirdest part is how he feels obligated to intone that Luka is "the best player in the series". It's a religious mantra, not analysis.

The evidence is piling up that Luka has severe defensive flaws that other elite players in the league simply don't have. It's an insult to the conditioning and defensive work Jokic put in to even put them in the same sentence, for example.
Not only that, Luka was terrible offensively as well yesterday for big portions of the game and has completely disappeared in the 4th every game. Not like he's putting together these incredible performances on the other end of the floor either.
 

ObstructedView

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I can’t ever remember a narrative that a 50 win 5 seed was a consensus pick against a 64 win team that had just went 12-2. It’s just bonkers.
The best part is that many of the same people who were part of that consensus will shamelessly pivot to "but they didn't beat anyone" if/when the Cs put the Mavs out of their misery.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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100% - once they take this from a 10 game playoff win streak to a 20 game playoff win streak, we'll start to get an indication that they're truly ready for the sport's biggest stage and compete for a championship.
Until that time, they will be the worst team ever to sweep both the Conference Finals and the Finals.
 

lovegtm

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Not only that, Luka was terrible offensively as well yesterday for big portions of the game and has completely disappeared in the 4th every game. Not like he's putting together these incredible performances on the other end of the floor either.
He's bad defense Embiid, for better and worse.
 

astrozombie

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The best part is that many of the same people who were part of that consensus will shamelessly pivot to "but they didn't beat anyone" if/when the Cs put the Mavs out of their misery.
A similar pivot will be from "The Mavs ran a gauntlet, they are battle-tested and ready for the Cs!" to "The Mavs are exhausted from playing a bunch of superior teams and had no gas left in the tank".
 

SoxVindaloo

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I think some of it was because pundits have been focusing all season on BOS's 0-2 record versus DEN (and to a lesser extent, the two OT games versus MIN, the loss at OKC, and the blow-out by LAC when they were in their hot streak) and concluded that BOS couldn't be the historically great team that the statistics said they were - they just happened to shoot the 3P well and play in a year where the Eastern Conference suffered a bunch of injuries.

So as you point out, DEN was better than BOS and DEN got beat by MIN, who then got beat by DAL, so . . . .

I mean I get it - these folks have a lot of content to produce; a lot of branding to do; there's a ton of basketball out there and who really has the time to watch all of these teams - plus, picking DAL probably gets more views than picking BOS.

But I wonder if any of them get embarrassed at all?
I wish they did, but the living breathing counterpoints are people like Nick Wright, who constantly says stupid stuff, takes a deep breath, and then says more dumb stuff. Never a mea culpa.
 

tims4wins

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Mavs currently a favorite in game 4. In the last 30 years no teams up 3-0 in the finals have ever been an underdog (it's happened 7 times).

Keep on keepin on.
 

rodderick

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I wish they did, but the living breathing counterpoints are people like Nick Wright, who constantly says stupid stuff, takes a deep breath, and then says more dumb stuff. Never a mea culpa.
I put guys like Nick Wright in a different category, having a "take" and living or dying by said take is literally part of his job description. He's there as a character more than analyst. That the people who are paid to actually give out informed opinions on the NBA are behaving similarly is to their discredit.
 

Auger34

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“The national headline is not 3-0, it’s not the runs, it’s Luka Doncic fouling out” Zach Lowe.
He is now going through every single foul. Good fucking lord

Jesus Christ
 

mostman

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Mavs currently a favorite in game 4. In the last 30 years no teams up 3-0 in the finals have ever been an underdog (it's happened 7 times).

Keep on keepin on.
I was hoping to grab this, but I can only find -1 now.
 

SoxVindaloo

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I put guys like Nick Wright in a different category, having a "take" and living or dying by said take is literally part of his job description. He's there as a character more than analyst. That the people who are paid to actually give out informed opinions on the NBA are behaving similarly is to their discredit.
Agreed, the fact it’s hard to tell hot take Charlie from an NBA beat writer/Analyst is the crux of the problem.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I was hoping to grab this, but I can only find -1 now.
We jumped on -1 minutes after G3 ended then it quickly moved to +1.5 and now back. I fully expect the Celtics to close above -2 so laying the 1 is probably going to be your best you see from now to game time.
 

The Social Chair

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Jimbodandy

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But I wonder if any of them get embarrassed at all?
The scoreboard is not based on accuracy. It's based on ratings, clicks, followers count, etc. So, no, I don't think that they're ever embarrassed for being so wrong.

It's a tough field, especially as a writer. Used to be that we engaged by buying the newspapers whose writers made the most sense, wrote well, had good sources, etc. Now, the field is so challenged by economic circumstances and measured by pure metrics that media folk are slaves to those metrics. It has changed how we as a society produce and consume news. The same level of base engagement with sports media is not altogether different than Facebook's "how to we keep people coming back by pissing them off" algorithms.
 

tims4wins

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Does anyone have the single season highest winning percentage list including playoffs? Thought I saw it a week or two back. 80% come Friday.
 

TroyOLeary

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Appreciate you saving me an hour of my time as I can skip the podcast now.
I'm a big Lowe fan, and I had to shut it off. It was embarrassing. He then went on to talk about some ridiculous hypothetical around if you ran a simulation on the 6 foul calls, you'd probably average around 5 fouls, completely ignoring any possible other fouls Luka committed that weren't called. They eventually got around to "the Celtics are really good" but the majority was about Dallas's 4th quarter run. In a game they lost. In a series they're down 3-0. Insanity.
 

lovegtm

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“The national headline is not 3-0, it’s not the runs, it’s Luka Doncic fouling out” Zach Lowe.
He is now going through every single foul. Good fucking lord

Jesus Christ
It was recorded right after the game ended, so he hadn't gotten the memo yet that he's allowed to stop ball-washing Luka now.

I'm only half-joking: the Windy rant was a huge "emperor has no clothes" moment. Knives are out for the Pillsbury Man now.
 

Auger34

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According to Lowe, the top 3 headlines of this game were
1. Doncic fouling out
2. The Celtics allowing the lead to fall to 2 in the 4th
3. Possessions in the 4th where Brown and Tatum ISO’d on PJ Washington.

yes, the top 3 headlines of the game had nothing to do with the Celtics winning or anything even positive about the Celtics
 

Auger34

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Those are some of the headlines but the #1 headline is the Celtics won the game are now up 3-0. End of discussion.
After that,, you can get into Luka fouls, refs, Celtics 4th, Celtics 3rd, whatever
 

JCizzle

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I'm a big Lowe fan, and I had to shut it off. It was embarrassing. He then went on to talk about some ridiculous hypothetical around if you ran a simulation on the 6 foul calls, you'd probably average around 5 fouls, completely ignoring any possible other fouls Luka committed that weren't called. They eventually got around to "the Celtics are really good" but the majority was about Dallas's 4th quarter run. In a game they lost. In a series they're down 3-0. Insanity.
For years, Zach was still trying to retroactively award the Heat the 2022 ECF because Jimmy Butler badly bricked a 3PA with like fifteen seconds left in the game. As if Jimmy is a good three point shooter or teams aren’t allowed to score at the end of a game. It’s not often, but sometimes he gets an idea in his head and just refuses to let it go.
 

TomRicardo

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Luka fouled out because he is lazy, and just constantly grabs guys.
See I disagree, he fouled out because the referees were giving him an insane amount of deference and he got up and showed them up. It took a ton of energy to get the refs and NBA to decide to not to protect him from himself anymore.
 

lovegtm

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For years, Zach was still trying to retroactively award the Heat the 2022 ECF because Jimmy Butler badly bricked a 3PA with like fifteen seconds left in the game. As if Jimmy is a good three point shooter or teams aren’t allowed to score at the end of a game.
And he never does it with other title winners. The Raptors needed 4 Bounces and the game 3 OT win against Milwaukee. 2018 GSW had the 0-27 game. The 2021 Bucks got to play a team that had one working human left and still had the toe-on-the-line game.

It's frankly embarrassing for Lowe at this point. He dislikes how Boston plays at some deep level, and everything else is backwards rationalization.