Mentality Heading into Game 5

[djbayko]

Well EVENTUALLY they’re going to lose two in a row. EVENTUALLY they’re not going to be able to overcome a needless hole they didn’t need to be in. I think we’ve reached that point.

What makes you think they've reached that point now? If they can't win a 3-game series without home court advantage, then how did they ever go up 2-1 without home court advantage against this very same team in the first place? Perhaps "eventually" is next regular season.

It's funny (and I'm generalizing here, JFK, not picking on you). After every Celtics playoff win, people think they're world beaters and the other team doesn't have a chance. After every loss, a bunch of people think they blew the series. The series is tied 2-2. I can't guarantee that they'll win, but I don't know how so many people can confidently say that it's over.

Edit: FWIW, sharp sportsbooks have GSW as about 56% favorites to win the series. It's ovah!

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Timelord doesn't even know when he tweaked it?

Correct. Per Jarred Weiss:

​

Ime Udoka says the Celtics are hopeful Rob Williams can play tomorrow, and that they watched the film and never found a clear moment where he hurt his knee. ​

​

Looked like it may have happened landing from a contest around the 5 minute mark of the fourth quarter. ​

View: https://twitter.com/JaredWeissNBA/status/1536081516559667200

 

[bosockboy]

2008 honestly wasn’t incredibly enjoyable until The Finals. They almost got bounced by the Hawks.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Wow. I feel terrible for anyone that isn't enjoying this run warts and all. Its been so unexpected and everything feels entirely earned. If this team prevails, its going to be hard make any sort of case that the path was easy.

It hasn't always been fun to watch but this team has rewarded those who stuck with them at every turn thus far.

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Wow. I feel terrible for anyone that isn't enjoying this run warts and all. Its been so unexpected and everything feels entirely earned. If this team prevails, its going to be hard make any sort of case that the path was easy.

It hasn't always been easy to watch but this team has rewarded those who stuck with them at every turn thus far.

I’ll freely admit there wasn’t much joy in the first half of the season. But that’s only served to make what has happened since all the more enjoyable. Confidence not shaken over in Costanzaville. They got this whether it’s 6 or 7.

 

[Dotrat]

My feelings about this series are oddly reminiscent of how I felt as a young Dot Rat in 1984--defensive, very tense, but ultimately hopeful because, while most Boston fans were convinced we were better than the Lakers, most of the country (and NBA cognoscenti at the time) seemed to disagree. The series seemed to be playing out in LA's favor in spite of being tied 2-2 going into Game 5.

So while I'm enjoying these finals, my heart rate is not. Celtics in seven.

 

[m0ckduck]

Sorry to repeat myself (said this in the other thread) but while I understand basketball is a game of matchups, GSW is better than MIA without Herro and MIL without Middleton so I'm not sure why people think BOS would walk away with this.

TL is obviously the wild card but I still think BOS's talent prevails. Originally voted BOS in 7; sticking to it.

Re: the bolded, I believe MIL without Middleton is at parity with GSW.

I voted "still think we can win" because, having watched them edge the Bucks, I don't think GSW presents a harder overall challenge— so, until we're sent home, I'll believe that the same overall dynamics will assert themselves. As different as the Warriors and Bucks are as teams, there are some similar trends in the two series through 4:

• Both GSW and MIL need(ed) their star to be the best player on the court by a wide margin to win. Through 4 games, this seems frighteningly possible... but, through 7, Giannis wore down just enough. Curry is carrying a huge load; I expect him to be more up-and-down over these last 3.
• Bud and Kerr keep showing new wrinkles with every game. But Bud ran out of adjustments by the end, and, in G7, the Celts faced a familiar plan of attack. I'll be interested to see how many cards Kerr has left to play.
• The Celtics losses have had similar components as the losses in past series (the game where they are caught off guard by the other team's intensity... the game where they get rattled by shaky officiating... the game where they fail to execute their half-court offense down the stretch). This is neither here nor there, but just makes me feel that we are repeating a familiar pattern.

Boston doesn't have HCA this time, but it's unclear if that matters given their reverse home-road splits through this run.

Health is the true wildcard. Boston needed a Tatum supernova in G6 to stave off elimination vs. MIL, and it's unclear if he has that in him this time around.

Edit: after checking the box scores from the MIL series, I stand by my "Giannis wearing down just enough" comment (e.g. 10 for 26 in the clincher). But, it's hilarious what his "wearing down" numbers look like: 26 pts, 20 reb, 9 assists. Jesus, what a monster.

 

[JFK35]

We’ll all be disappointed if they lose but I think we should all appreciate what they’ve accomplished as well.

Don’t get me wrong - this team has come a long way since the early season. And I appreciate that but when you get this close - you don’t know when you’ll be back. Did anyone in ‘87 think it’d be 21 years before another trip to the finals?

And for me when a team goes this far and doesn’t finish the deal - for me to “just be grateful for the run” it has to be one of two scenarios: Either it was flukey and miraculous (which this isn’t, in fact I think the Celtics are the better team) OR you have to feel very good that they’ll be back next year with another shot at it and I’m just not as optimistic about the future of this team - partly because the jeckle and hyde nature, I wouldn’t be surprised if they reverted back to Pre-January ways next season and then a frustrated JB or JT leaves for South Beach, LA or NY. At the same time I wouldn’t be surprised if they made it back to the dance next season. But regardless I don’t see this as a group of young guns that’ll get many more cracks at it…. at least not

You aren’t enjoying this run? They were like the 11 seed 6 months ago and now they’re 2 games away from an NBA title. No NBA title is ever easy. Did you enjoy watching the Big 3 go to 7 games against a mediocre Hawks team? Or Cavs in the next round? We’d all love for them to steamroll their way to a title but that’s not realistic.

In this run, they’ve destroyed Durant and Kyrie. That was EXTREMELY enjoyable to watch.

Then, they took out the best player in the game and defending champs. That was sure pretty enjoyable.

Then, they took out Pat Riley’s flopping collection of turds. Surely that was enjoyable.

I probably should have clarified, the Nets series not withstanding. Shoving it down Kyries throat was immensely satisfying.

And the Milwaukee series was very fun to watch in Games 6 & 7. The entire Miami series was painful and mentally exhausting.

For me most of the ride has been a roller coaster of “great win! if they can get the next one they’ve really got something here!” then you worry about the next one and sure enough they throw up over themselves and go from (like I said - from in control to in a hole)

The only time post-Brooklyn that I’ve really felt hopeful and wildly confident about this team is after Game 1 and before Game 2 of the finals.

What makes you think they've reached that point now? If they can't win a 3-game series without home court advantage, then how did they ever go up 2-1 without home court advantage against this very same team in the first place? Perhaps "eventually" is next regular season.

A combination of factors really - Really I think just think taking another game out there in SF is too tall of a task. You have the combination of Golden State being phenomenal at home, the Celtics uncanny way of putting up clusterf performances, Tatum has looked pedestrian - or at least not what you’d expect out of a superstar in the finals, You never know what you’ll get from Rob due to injuries. And I’m still scarred from 2010 - where Sterns will made an appearance in the 4th quarter. I have a hard time not seeing brutal officiating (despite it being fair

Edit: FWIW, sharp sportsbooks have GSW as about 56% favorites to win the series. It's ovah!

I have NO clue what Vegas has been thinking this series. The odds have been widely inconsistent. GSW being +190 after Game 3 was crazh

 

[JFK35]

My feelings about this series are oddly reminiscent of how I felt as a young Dot Rat in 1984--defensive, very tense, but ultimately hopeful because, while most Boston fans were convinced we were better than the Lakers, most of the country (and NBA cognoscenti at the time) seemed to disagree. The series seemed to be playing out in LA's favor in spite of being tied 2-2 going into Game 5.

So while I'm enjoying these finals, my heart rate is not. Celtics in seven.

I’m not sure the comparisons are totally fair (granted I wasn’t alive for that series, still a few years away) - especially the media aspect. For these finals the national media was all over the Warriors beforehand but after Game 1, even after Game 2 and especially after Game 3- it’s been the total opposite. 98.5, SF Sportsradio, ESPN, FOX .. you name it everyone was saying how much bigger the Celtics were, stronger, tougher. How they have too many options, too well rounded etc.

Also, one MAJOR difference from ‘84…. Celtics had home court. Which plays a bigger role later in a series as opposed to early on. In ‘84 it was chalk after Game 4.

 

[Captaincoop]

I’m not sure the comparisons are totally fair (granted I wasn’t alive for that series, still a few years away) - especially the media aspect. For these finals the national media was all over the Warriors beforehand but after Game 1, even after Game 2 and especially after Game 3- it’s been the total opposite. 98.5, SF Sportsradio, ESPN, FOX .. you name it everyone was saying how much bigger the Celtics were, stronger, tougher. How they have too many options, too well rounded etc.

Also, one MAJOR difference from ‘84…. Celtics had home court. Which plays a bigger role later in a series as opposed to early on. In ‘84 it was chalk after Game 4.

They also had the best player in that series, they don't have that this time around.

I don't care how young they are, they need to win this thing somehow. The history of the league is littered with good young teams that never got their turn to win. You have to grab it when you're this close.

 

[Devizier]

Wow. I feel terrible for anyone that isn't enjoying this run warts and all.

Yeah, Jesus, this run feels amazing.

 

[cardiacs]

I like their chances tonight but don't think they can pull it off over 3 more games.
I do believe they are the better team but I don't think they have the mental discipline to maintain flow and play in the way that affords them an advantage. Prove me wrong C's!!!

 

[JFK35]

I like their chances tonight but don't think they can pull it off over 3 more games.
I do believe they are the better team but I don't think they have the mental discipline to maintain flow and play in the way that affords them an advantage. Prove me wrong C's!!!

You LIKE them tonight but DONT like them for the series? Yikes. Yes I realize they’ve had multiple instances of pulling off unexpected road W’s followed by crushing home defeats. But with that said I think that trend ends now: I can’t see the winner of tonight losing the series. They don’t call it pivotal for nothing

 

[NoXInNixon]

I still think the Celtics are a better team than the Warriors, but anything can happen in a small three game sample.

I also think that this series is enormous for the confidence of the Celtics for the rest of this window going forward. Right now, it seems like the Celtics take too many unnecessary chances with the ball, maybe because they're trying to be perfect, as if they see themselves as underdogs.

But if they can win two more games and get Banner 18, I expect their demeanor to change. The confidence of being champions will help them to just play to their strengths, knowing that if they just execute the basics they are the best team in the NBA. And if they clean up the mental mistakes, we are watching the start of the next NBA dynasty.

 

[djbayko]

Edit: Nevermind.

 

[JFK35]

I still think the Celtics are a better team than the Warriors, but anything can happen in a small three game sample.

I also think that this series is enormous for the confidence of the Celtics for the rest of this window going forward. Right now, it seems like the Celtics take too many unnecessary chances with the ball, maybe because they're trying to be perfect, as if they see themselves as underdogs.

But if they can win two more games and get Banner 18, I expect their demeanor to change. The confidence of being champions will help them to just play to their strengths, knowing that if they just execute the basics they are the best team in the NBA. And if they clean up the mental mistakes, we are watching the start of the next NBA dynasty.

Feel oddly similar. Kind of getting an all or nothing vibe from this team. A World Championship and you might be seeing a mini-dynastic run. Not a totally dominant stretch but maybe they win 2-3 in 5 years. A loss and I think there is a real (maybe likely) chance of regression back to the pre-January immature-inconsistent-brand of basketball…. mixed with a dysfunctional locker room. And in that case we might be looking at the 2012 OKC thunder.

 

[bakahump]

My horror thought over the weekend was "Can they keep up the defensive intensity they have had (needed) over the last 60 games. Orrrrr....is it going to wear them out. Have we gotten to the bottom of the reserve?"

I cant quantify this. But I can pretty confidently say that when you are playing the type of intense defense and playing difficult offense on the other end....it takes a toll. Mentally and physically.

While some teams/players can turn on the switch. Essentially saving something for when they need it.

My mind went further to "Is this going to make them a good to great team in the regular season and a (very) tough out in the playoffs, but in the end have them too spent to ever capture a (few) championship(s)"

I obviously dont want this to happen....and it may be too soon to say that this IS happening....but I wonder if its possible because of the way this team plays.

 

[NoXInNixon]

My horror thought over the weekend was "Can they keep up the defensive intensity they have had (needed) over the last 60 games. Orrrrr....is it going to wear them out. Have we gotten to the bottom of the reserve?"

I cant quantify this. But I can pretty confidently say that when you are playing the type of intense defense and playing difficult offense on the other end....it takes a toll. Mentally and physically.

On the other hand, we have seen evidence in these playoffs that having to play against this defense also takes a mental and physical toll. Giannis carried the Bucks on his back until he couldn't any more. Steph is carrying the Warriors on his back. Can he do it for two more games?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Strange conversation. Even if the C's lost the next 2 in blowout fashion, this season can't be considered anything but a resounding success, and will probably be the least upset I've ever been about losing a championship (including super bowls, Stanley cups, etc). They were absolutely nowhere near being good enough to be here on January 1st, and now, they're 2 games away from a title. An uphill climb for sure, but damn, they already climbed Mount Everest about a half dozen times just to be in this situation. This has been a remarkable season, no matter how it ends.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I get that people are angry (is this the right word, disappointed is probably better) that the Celts couldn't close out the Warriors on Friday, but to say this whole run hasn't been fun because they haven't Moses Malone'd this thing (fo, fo, fo, fo) is a little off. I mean, you need a little adversity to enjoy the final result. Like would the 04 season be as sweet without what happened in the Bronx the year before? How about Super Bowl LI, would that have been an all-time if the Pats weren't down 28-3?

The Celtics are tied with the Golden State Warriors 2-2. They're not down 3-1. Like did you look at this series and thought that Boston was going to get the regular sweep or the gentleman's sweep? If so, that's more on you because Golden State is a really good team. And if you thought that the C's were going to take it in six (there are your two losses, you can still be right!) or seven (there's still one more to go) then you're still on the same path you were ten days ago.

Relax. It's going to be fine.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Strange conversation. Even if the C's lost the next 2 in blowout fashion, this season can't be considered anything but a resounding success, and will probably be the least upset I've ever been about losing a championship (including super bowls, Stanley cups, etc). They were absolutely nowhere near being good enough to be here on January 1st, and now, they're 2 games away from a title. An uphill climb for sure, but damn, they already climbed Mount Everest about a half dozen times just to be in this situation. This has been a remarkable season, no matter how it ends.

I pretty much agree with this, although Tatums performance dampens this a bit. We thought this was going to be his coming out party for the country, but if he doesn't get it going quick, it leaves more questions than answers.

Still, what a turnaround.

 

[jezza1918]

I pretty much agree with this, although Tatums performance dampens this a bit. We thought this was going to be his coming out party for the country, but if he doesn't get it going quick, it leaves more questions than answers.

Still, what a turnaround.

Wouldn't the only remaining question be "can he perform like a top 5 player consistently enough in the playoffs to lead his team to a title?" He's already proven he can do it in big games (outdueling the best player in the league in game 6 vs the bucks); he's proven he can affect the game in positive ways when he doesn't have any kind of shooting touch (game 1 of finals); he's proven he can demolish one of the game's best offensive players (Durant); etc etc.
He lead one of the best in season turnarounds I can remember following, and ultimately will minimum come within 2 wins of a title. During his age 23 season. The season may very well end in disappointment...but it's still been an overwhelming success.
Sidebar - is there a way to give Tatum a break on the defensive end to try to let him flourish deep into games offensively? Or is that just so against their DNA & the whole switching scheme the reward wouldn't be worth the risk?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Wouldn't the only remaining question be "can he perform like a top 5 player consistently enough in the playoffs to lead his team to a title?" He's already proven he can do it in big games (outdueling the best player in the league in game 6 vs the bucks); he's proven he can affect the game in positive ways when he doesn't have any kind of shooting touch (game 1 of finals); he's proven he can demolish one of the game's best offensive players (Durant); etc etc.
He lead one of the best in season turnarounds I can remember following, and ultimately will minimum come within 2 wins of a title. During his age 23 season. The season may very well end in disappointment...but it's still been an overwhelming success.
Sidebar - is there a way to give Tatum a break on the defensive end to try to let him flourish deep into games offensively? Or is that just so against their DNA & the whole switching scheme the reward wouldn't be worth the risk?

I think consistency is one of the biggest differentiators between really good and great players. So, while I agree with your premise, I'd argue the question looms larger than you imply with your response.

 

[jezza1918]

I think consistency is one of the biggest differentiators between really good and great players. So, while I agree with your premise, I'd argue the question looms larger than you imply with your response.

Ok yes - I should be clear, by no means do I think it's a given he answers that question the way we all want him to. And I agree it's a HUGE piece to the long term, championship puzzle window. But I also think, as I said, it's really the only question remaining (albeit, a very large one). I was mainly giving a bit of pushback to the "more questions" phrasing...but honestly sounds like we are probably on the same page.

 

[BaseballJones]

I still think the Celtics are a better team than the Warriors, but anything can happen in a small three game sample.

I also think that this series is enormous for the confidence of the Celtics for the rest of this window going forward. Right now, it seems like the Celtics take too many unnecessary chances with the ball, maybe because they're trying to be perfect, as if they see themselves as underdogs.

But if they can win two more games and get Banner 18, I expect their demeanor to change. The confidence of being champions will help them to just play to their strengths, knowing that if they just execute the basics they are the best team in the NBA. And if they clean up the mental mistakes, we are watching the start of the next NBA dynasty.

Eh....I don't know about that. If they win it all, next year they still have to contend with a peak Giannis, who, even without Celtic-killer Middleton, very nearly beat the Celtics. Add Middleton back into the mix, and that's a tough hill for Boston to climb. Not saying they can't do it, but man, Milwaukee with peak Giannis is a monster still.

 

[ehaz]

I get that they always bounce back and they have to take the tough road, etc. But it was still deflating to see the way they played in game 4 and I just don't think the Celtics will take 2 out of 3. It wasn't even like Golden State were playing great defense - they just sucked and fell into the same early season offense/turnovers we've seen too often in this playoffs.

This is still a great season no matter how it ends, but I just can't shake the feeling that they're finally in a series where throwing a game away is going to come back to haunt them.

 

[JFK35]

Strange conversation. Even if the C's lost the next 2 in blowout fashion, this season can't be considered anything but a resounding success, and will probably be the least upset I've ever been about losing a championship (including super bowls, Stanley cups, etc). They were absolutely nowhere near being good enough to be here on January 1st, and now, they're 2 games away from a title. An uphill climb for sure, but damn, they already climbed Mount Everest about a half dozen times just to be in this situation. This has been a remarkable season, no matter how it ends.

I don’t understand that at all. I actually find it nearly impossible to not be that upset over championship loses. The two times I really was “okay” or “at peace” with losing a championship was the ’11 Patriots and the ‘13 Bruins. Every other “so close” has been an unbearable taste I haven’t been able to kick for weeks.

And maybe I’d feel the “it was a great season regardless” sentiment if they were so clearly over matched. And went down 2-0 then 3-1. But that’s not the case - they’re good enough and I actually believe they’re better. And up 5 with 5 left at home with a chance to go up 3-1. That’s a REALLY hard pill to swallow

I get that they always bounce back and they have to take the tough road, etc. But it was still deflating to see the way they played in game 4 and I just don't think the Celtics will take 2 out of 3. It wasn't even like Golden State were playing great defense - they just sucked and fell into the same early season offense/turnovers we've seen too often in this playoffs.

This is still a great season no matter how it ends, but I just can't shake the feeling that they're finally in a series where throwing a game away is going to come back to haunt them.

This.This.

 

[fairlee76]

Wouldn't the only remaining question be "can he perform like a top 5 player consistently enough in the playoffs to lead his team to a title?" He's already proven he can do it in big games (outdueling the best player in the league in game 6 vs the bucks); he's proven he can affect the game in positive ways when he doesn't have any kind of shooting touch (game 1 of finals); he's proven he can demolish one of the game's best offensive players (Durant); etc etc.
He lead one of the best in season turnarounds I can remember following, and ultimately will minimum come within 2 wins of a title. During his age 23 season. The season may very well end in disappointment...but it's still been an overwhelming success.
Sidebar - is there a way to give Tatum a break on the defensive end to try to let him flourish deep into games offensively? Or is that just so against their DNA & the whole switching scheme the reward wouldn't be worth the risk?

I think another question that hopefully we get an answer to this summer would be "is his shoulder injured" as I am starting to think there might be something to that line of inquiry. I have not had a stinger in forever but I don't remember ever grabbing the affected area (indicating discomfort) weeks afterwards.

 

[Auger34]

Eh....I don't know about that. If they win it all, next year they still have to contend with a peak Giannis, who, even without Celtic-killer Middleton, very nearly beat the Celtics. Add Middleton back into the mix, and that's a tough hill for Boston to climb. Not saying they can't do it, but man, Milwaukee with peak Giannis is a monster still.

Agreed with this. The Celtics will be in the top tier for a bit now but championship opportunities are precious.

In the East, the Bucks had the Middleton injury. Who knows what player movement will occur this off-season.

In the West, the Nuggets will be getting Murray and Porter back. Clippers will be a lot better. There are some young teams on an upward trajectory.

I’ll be pretty bummed out if they lose just because you never know if it will happen again. But I wont be furious or anything like that. This was a pretty magical run that they went on that pretty much no one expected a couple of months ago. It’s cool to watch the team grow up before our eyes….

That said, getting back to the topic of this thread, I’ve got a lot of confidence they’re going to win the whole damn thing this year

 

[lexrageorge]

Agreed with this. The Celtics will be in the top tier for a bit now but championship opportunities are precious.

In the East, the Bucks had the Middleton injury. Who knows what player movement will occur this off-season.

In the West, the Nuggets will be getting Murray and Porter back. Clippers will be a lot better. There are some young teams on an upward trajectory.

I’ll be pretty bummed out if they lose just because you never know if it will happen again. But I wont be furious or anything like that. This was a pretty magical run that they went on that pretty much no one expected a couple of months ago. It’s cool to watch the team grow up before our eyes….

That said, getting back to the topic of this thread, I’ve got a lot of confidence they’re going to win the whole damn thing this year

+1

The NBA seems to be entering a period of not having one super-team of destiny, but instead several that are true championship contenders in a given season. The teams that are watching this series will all be looking for ways to get better. And there is some really compelling young players working their way up the hierarchy (Ja, Young, Zion, et al); even if their current teams are struggling, they could always be on the move.

And the Celtics will have their own challenges next season (Williams' knee, Horford's age, etc.). I am optimistic that the Celtics will continue to be in the conversation over the next few years; they will be a target of ring-chasing vets this offseason for the first time in years. But I am by no means comfortable with counting on the team being back in it next season. So, let's cheer for the Celtics to be the first team in this Finals to win 2 in a row.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Home, road, whatever. These games all feel like coin flips. I really believe if they played 50 it would be very close to 25 to 25. It is just going to come down to bounces and some luck. Sometimes you do everything right and the ball bounces out and sometimes you do everything wrong and the other team bails you out.

I'm just not seeing enough separation where you could say that either team seems to have a significant edge. The rebounding differential in game 4 was concerning and if that is actually a thing then I think it would be a problem, but I think that was weird bounce variance.

Bottom line is that I just don't really see much of a valid reason for either team's fans to feel like their team is in the driver's seat or to feel confident. If you flip a coin three times over and over, you get at least 2 heads half the time and at least 2 tails the other half of the time. That's really what I think this series is. I genuinely believe each team has an equal chance. The team that wins tonight has a 75 percent chance to be the champion. Really just as simple as that for me.

 

[BaseballJones]

+1

The NBA seems to be entering a period of not having one super-team of destiny, but instead several that are true championship contenders in a given season. The teams that are watching this series will all be looking for ways to get better. And there is some really compelling young players working their way up the hierarchy (Ja, Young, Zion, et al); even if their current teams are struggling, they could always be on the move.

And the Celtics will have their own challenges next season (Williams' knee, Horford's age, etc.). I am optimistic that the Celtics will continue to be in the conversation over the next few years; they will be a target of ring-chasing vets this offseason for the first time in years. But I am by no means comfortable with counting on the team being back in it next season. So, let's cheer for the Celtics to be the first team in this Finals to win 2 in a row.

Different play style, but the 80s had the Lakers, Sixers, Celtics, and Pistons, with teams just below them in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Houston....it was an incredible time for great play. Clearly there were some "dynasties" - Celtics with three and the Lakers with five, but there were other incredibly great teams there as well, which made each season super compelling.

It's good for the league to have so many excellent teams battling for supremacy. The Celtics should be right in that mix for many years. Like Milwaukee of the 80s (people forget how good they were), Boston might never win it with this Tatum group, but they'll sure be in the mix.

 

[lexrageorge]

Different play style, but the 80s had the Lakers, Sixers, Celtics, and Pistons, with teams just below them in Chicago, Milwaukee, and Houston....it was an incredible time for great play. Clearly there were some "dynasties" - Celtics with three and the Lakers with five, but there were other incredibly great teams there as well, which made each season super compelling.

It's good for the league to have so many excellent teams battling for supremacy. The Celtics should be right in that mix for many years. Like Milwaukee of the 80s (people forget how good they were), Boston might never win it with this Tatum group, but they'll sure be in the mix.

Being the Bucks of the 1980's is my greatest fear around this team. They lost to the Sixers 4 times, and then when they finally beat Philly their prize was the 1986 Celtics. Repeat of the same in 1987, and then it was the Pistons turn. It would be a huge disappointment for many fans. At least Houston cracked the code a couple of times.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yeah I hear you. Those Bucks teams...man were they good. From 1980-81 through 1986-87 they did this:

60 wins, 1st place, Eastern semis
55 wins, 1st place, Eastern semis
51 wins, 1st place, Eastern finals
50 wins, 1st place, Eastern finals
59 wins, 1st place, Eastern semis
57 wins, 1st place, Eastern finals
50 wins, 3rd place, Eastern semis

In that conference, with Philly and Boston, and even Atlanta rising in the mid-80s, Chicago rising in the late 80s, and Detroit rising in the mid-to-late 80s, that run is pretty awesome.

But not even a single conference title to their credit. Amazing, really. Those Bucks teams were awesome.

 

[Captaincoop]

Yeah I hear you. Those Bucks teams...man were they good. From 1980-81 through 1986-87 they did this:

60 wins, 1st place, Eastern semis
55 wins, 1st place, Eastern semis
51 wins, 1st place, Eastern finals
50 wins, 1st place, Eastern finals
59 wins, 1st place, Eastern semis
57 wins, 1st place, Eastern finals
50 wins, 3rd place, Eastern semis

In that conference, with Philly and Boston, and even Atlanta rising in the mid-80s, Chicago rising in the late 80s, and Detroit rising in the mid-to-late 80s, that run is pretty awesome.

But not even a single conference title to their credit. Amazing, really. Those Bucks teams were awesome.

The Hawks and Cavs of the late 80s were in that category, too. You can't be in this spot and consider it some kind of house money situation...you just don't know what's going to happen down the road. Right now you are two wins from a championship. Have to grab that ring.

 

[lars10]

Wow. I feel terrible for anyone that isn't enjoying this run warts and all. Its been so unexpected and everything feels entirely earned. If this team prevails, its going to be hard make any sort of case that the path was easy.

It hasn't always been fun to watch but this team has rewarded those who stuck with them at every turn thus far.

Absolute best or worst case scenario.. Celtics still have two more games.

They've yet to be behind this series.. which I think is saying something against this Warriors team. And they almost play better on the road.. especially after a loss.
Only problem is Brothers is reffing tonight.. and he's beyond incompetent.

 

[Pesky Pole]

Marc Davis, Tony Brothers and Josh Tiven tonight. Celtics are 3-12 in their last 15 playoff games reffed by Brothers. Hopefully Scott Foster is on speed dial if needed for game 6.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Someone on the Celtics is picking up two quick fouls tonight.

 

[soxin6]

Someone on the Celtics is picking up two quick fouls tonight.

Only one?

 

[Eddie Jurak]

After game 5, they are done.

The run was nice while it lasted.

For all of their talent, the Celtics are just too young, too undisciplined, too indecisive, too lacking in confidence and poise. There's not an effort issue, but there is a major execution issue. At this point in time, the moment is just too much for them, the stage too big.

The Warriors played poorly tonight for most of the game, but outside of the first 10 minutes of the third, the Celtics were a disaster that could not get out of their own way.

Maybe the Celtics take it to 7 because the Warriors are overconfident and there is no more pressure on the Celtics now that this is over for all practical intents and purposes, but even if that happens, game 7 will come down to execution, and the Celtics aren't going to suddenly figure out how to out-execute the Warriors.

It's not really a shock that Jayson Tatum, age 24, is not able to do something - lead a team to a title - that even MJ and Lebron could not do. But it is frustrating because the talent is there on ths team for him to do that thng.

The Celtics played the whole first half like a team that was done and knew it was done. Not in the sense that they were mailing it in, but there was no confdence, no decisiveness, poor execution, no poise. They were lucky to be down by 12.

They came out in the third and played almost 10 minutes of excellent basketball. And then they took their eye off the ball, so to speak, for a couple of minutes and Golden State demolished them.

Ime let them down tonight. He took them into the 4th quarter with 5 time outs and didn't manage to actually call one until the Warriors were up by 8 and the Celtics had been falling apart since the end of the third. Was he taking a nap?

The officiating was garbage tonight, but the Celtics lack the maturity to play through that.

Anyway, it is what it is. It was a good run while it lasted and the Celtics have a bright future.

 

[lexrageorge]

They look worn down both physically and mentally, and just don't have enough in the tank to beat the more talented team.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Meh. I was more concerned when they were down 3-2 to the Bucks.

This is going 7.

 

[The Social Chair]

Meh. I was more concerned when they were down 3-2 to the Bucks.

This is going 7.

The Bucks might be better than the Warriors but this isn't the same Celtics team. They don't have much left in the tank.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

The Bucks might be better than the Warriors but this isn't the same Celtics team. They don't have much left in the tank.

Yeah. I get a little sick of everyone speaking with such authority on this stuff. They choked against the Bucks...until they didnt. Miami series was over after 2 games...until it wasnt. The Dubs were done after 3 games...until they weren't.

Nobody knows anything, except this team has been resilient for months. I'm not counting them out until their out.

 

[djbayko]

After game 5, they are done.

The run was nice while it lasted.

For all of their talent, the Celtics are just too young, too undisciplined, too indecisive, too lacking in confidence and poise. There's not an effort issue, but there is a major execution issue. At this point in time, the moment is just too much for them, the stage too big.

The Warriors played poorly tonight for most of the game, but outside of the first 10 minutes of the third, the Celtics were a disaster that could not get out of their own way.

Maybe the Celtics take it to 7 because the Warriors are overconfident and there is no more pressure on the Celtics now that this is over for all practical intents and purposes, but even if that happens, game 7 will come down to execution, and the Celtics aren't going to suddenly figure out how to out-execute the Warriors.

It's not really a shock that Jayson Tatum, age 24, is not able to do something - lead a team to a title - that even MJ and Lebron could not do. But it is frustrating because the talent is there on ths team for him to do that thng.

The Celtics played the whole first half like a team that was done and knew it was done. Not in the sense that they were mailing it in, but there was no confdence, no decisiveness, poor execution, no poise. They were lucky to be down by 12.

They came out in the third and played almost 10 minutes of excellent basketball. And then they took their eye off the ball, so to speak, for a couple of minutes and Golden State demolished them.

Ime let them down tonight. He took them into the 4th quarter with 5 time outs and didn't manage to actually call one until the Warriors were up by 8 and the Celtics had been falling apart since the end of the third. Was he taking a nap?

The officiating was garbage tonight, but the Celtics lack the maturity to play through that.

Anyway, it is what it is. It was a good run while it lasted and the Celtics have a bright future.

Okay, cool. See you posting in the Cellar next year.

Personally,, I'm going to see if we can win another series down 3-2 with the next game at home.

Yeah. I get a little sick of everyone speaking with such authority on this stuff. They choked against the Bucks...until they didnt. Miami series was over after 2 games...until it wasnt. The Dubs were done after 3 games...until they weren't.

Nobody knows anything, except this team has been resilient for months. I'm not counting them out until their out.

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[Mystic Merlin]

After game 5, they are done.

The run was nice while it lasted.

For all of their talent, the Celtics are just too young, too undisciplined, too indecisive, too lacking in confidence and poise. There's not an effort issue, but there is a major execution issue. At this point in time, the moment is just too much for them, the stage too big.

The Warriors played poorly tonight for most of the game, but outside of the first 10 minutes of the third, the Celtics were a disaster that could not get out of their own way.

Maybe the Celtics take it to 7 because the Warriors are overconfident and there is no more pressure on the Celtics now that this is over for all practical intents and purposes, but even if that happens, game 7 will come down to execution, and the Celtics aren't going to suddenly figure out how to out-execute the Warriors.

It's not really a shock that Jayson Tatum, age 24, is not able to do something - lead a team to a title - that even MJ and Lebron could not do. But it is frustrating because the talent is there on ths team for him to do that thng.

The Celtics played the whole first half like a team that was done and knew it was done. Not in the sense that they were mailing it in, but there was no confdence, no decisiveness, poor execution, no poise. They were lucky to be down by 12.

They came out in the third and played almost 10 minutes of excellent basketball. And then they took their eye off the ball, so to speak, for a couple of minutes and Golden State demolished them.

Ime let them down tonight. He took them into the 4th quarter with 5 time outs and didn't manage to actually call one until the Warriors were up by 8 and the Celtics had been falling apart since the end of the third. Was he taking a nap?

The officiating was garbage tonight, but the Celtics lack the maturity to play through that.

Anyway, it is what it is. It was a good run while it lasted and the Celtics have a bright future.

So if they win Game 6 it is because the Warriors are ‘overconfident’? This is Felger-esque in the best and worst ways, setting yourself up a two-way go for your post-Game 6 narrative.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

So if they win Game 6 it is because the Warriors are ‘overconfident’? This is Felger-esque in the best and worst ways, setting yourself up a two-way go for your post-Game 6 narrative.

Less Warriors overconfdence and more the Celtics realizing that the pressure to deliver a title is off them now, so they will play more freely and execute better. But really I expect them to lose game 6.

 

[mikeford]

The free throws were 31 BOS to 15 GSW in a game Boston played horribly in for 36 minutes.

Stick a fork in this thing.

 

[BaseballJones]

The free throws were 31 BOS to 15 GSW in a game Boston played horribly in for 36 minutes.

Stick a fork in this thing.

Yeah Boston shot twice the number of free throws (31 to 15), hit more three pointers (11 to 9), out-rebounded Golden State by 8 (47 to 39), and Curry didn't make a single three pointer, and Boston lost by ten.

I don't think a single one of us would have thought that Boston could possibly lose a game with those four things being true. But it happened.

Key stat #1:
Boston 18 turnovers
Golden State 6 turnovers

Key stat #2 (as a function of key stat #1):
Boston 75 FGA (and 31 makes...41.3%)
Golden State 88 FGA (and 41 makes...46.6%)

You shoot 13 more field goal attempts and make 10 more, you're going to win a lot of games unless you get killed from three and/or at the FT line. GS, despite being outshot from the line by 16 attempts (fouls were 28 to 16 in favor of Boston), only made 8 fewer, because of GS's great FT shooting and Boston's woeful FT shooting. And both teams were bad from three (other than Boston's 8 in a row stretch), so GS only made two fewer threes (9 to 11), so they didn't get drowned in a sea of Boston threes.

Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers.

The Celtics are literally giving this series to Golden State with the turnovers.

Boston Turnovers
Celtic wins: 13, 12 (12.5 avg)
Celtic losses: 19, 16, 18 (17.7 avg)

Golden State Turnovers
Celtic wins: 14, 17 (15.5 avg)
Celtic losses: 12, 16, 6 (11.3 avg)

So when the Celtics have lost, they've fumbled away 6.4 more possessions per game - possessions where they didn't even get a shot up because of a turnover. At the shooting percentages these teams are at, that's roughly 3 made baskets (out of 6.4 attempts) they're sacrificing. If two of those are twos and one is a three, that's five points per game they're just lighting on fire and throwing away.

It's especially problematic when the turnovers are live ball turnovers and lead directly to GS points, which has happened a lot in those games.

So we're back to this equation: When the Celtics take care of the ball (and it doesn't even have to be GREAT...it just has to be DECENT), they win. When they are sloppy, they lose. Obviously the quality of defense matters, and the officiating matters - you can get knocked off the ball and no foul is called and it's a turnover. But regardless...they can't turn it over and hope to win. GS is just too good for that.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Yeah Boston shot twice the number of free throws (31 to 15), hit more three pointers (11 to 9), out-rebounded Golden State by 8 (47 to 39), and Curry didn't make a single three pointer, and Boston lost by ten.

I don't think a single one of us would have thought that Boston could possibly lose a game with those four things being true. But it happened.

Key stat #1:
Boston 18 turnovers
Golden State 6 turnovers

Key stat #2 (as a function of key stat #1):
Boston 75 FGA (and 31 makes...41.3%)
Golden State 88 FGA (and 41 makes...46.6%)

You shoot 13 more field goal attempts and make 10 more, you're going to win a lot of games unless you get killed from three and/or at the FT line. GS, despite being outshot from the line by 16 attempts (fouls were 28 to 16 in favor of Boston), only made 8 fewer, because of GS's great FT shooting and Boston's woeful FT shooting. And both teams were bad from three (other than Boston's 8 in a row stretch), so GS only made two fewer threes (9 to 11), so they didn't get drowned in a sea of Boston threes.

Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers.

The Celtics are literally giving this series to Golden State with the turnovers.

Boston Turnovers
Celtic wins: 13, 12 (12.5 avg)
Celtic losses: 19, 16, 18 (17.7 avg)

Golden State Turnovers
Celtic wins: 14, 17 (15.5 avg)
Celtic losses: 12, 16, 6 (11.3 avg)

So when the Celtics have lost, they've fumbled away 6.4 more possessions per game - possessions where they didn't even get a shot up because of a turnover. At the shooting percentages these teams are at, that's roughly 3 made baskets (out of 6.4 attempts) they're sacrificing. If two of those are twos and one is a three, that's five points per game they're just lighting on fire and throwing away.

It's especially problematic when the turnovers are live ball turnovers and lead directly to GS points, which has happened a lot in those games.

So we're back to this equation: When the Celtics take care of the ball (and it doesn't even have to be GREAT...it just has to be DECENT), they win. When they are sloppy, they lose. Obviously the quality of defense matters, and the officiating matters - you can get knocked off the ball and no foul is called and it's a turnover. But regardless...they can't turn it over and hope to win. GS is just too good for that.

From the 7:30 minute remaining in G4 thru the first 11 minutes of G5, the Celtics were outscored 47-18.

47-18.

There’s no way to sugarcoat things. Just a disgusting collective performance that underscores just how poorly this team has executed in the biggest moments of their season.

The turnovers are completely inexcusable and clearly a fatal flaw.