Mayo is the New Coach

Eddie Jurak

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I don't get the harping on the Rooney Rule loophole. I mean, they hired a black head coach. Would he have been happier if they had interviewed 5 black candidates but then hired Jim Harbaugh instead? Is that a better outcome for the black coaching community?
Well, I can see one genuine argument why allowing this type of evasion of the Rooney Rule is problematic. Yes, Mayo is Black and if the ultimate point of the Rooney Rule is to create opportunities for minorities to advance in the coaching and front office ranks, then Mayo's case is consistent with the spirit of the rule if not the letter.

But, if this loophole becomes 1) popular and 2) used to advance White candidates without complying with the Rooney Rule, then at a big picture level it could have a discriminatory effect.

There's also no real way to reconcile the Rooney Rule with this type of succession plan. If the Pats had interviewed some other Black candidates before moving on with their succession-planned hiring of Mayo, they could correctly be accused of conducting token interviews where the candidate had no chance.

If succession plans are going to become a thing, the the Rooney rule is going to require some revision. I think it would be (and should be) illegal to say "only Black candidates can be hired via succession plan," but succession plans cleary do undermine the rule. The Rooney rule is kind of dumb anyway, but the intent behind it is not. I think the NFL needs to rethink methods for promotion of minority advancement in coaching and management.

Having said all that, in no way am I faulting the Pats for anything here - faulting the Pats for Rooney rule reasons is, in this case, absurd on its face.
 

tims4wins

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Well, I can see one genuine argument why allowing this type of evasion of the Rooney Rule is problematic. Yes, Mayo is Black and if the ultimate point of the Rooney Rule is to create opportunities for minorities to advance in the coaching and front office ranks, then Mayo's case is consistent with the spirit of the rule if not the letter.

But, if this loophole becomes 1) popular and 2) used to advance White candidates without complying with the Rooney Rule, then at a big picture level it could have a discriminatory effect.

There's also no real way to reconcile the Rooney Rule with this type of succession plan. If the Pats had interviewed some other Black candidates before moving on with their succession-planned hiring of Mayo, they could correctly be accused of conducting token interviews where the candidate had no chance.

If succession plans are going to become a thing, the the Rooney rule is going to require some revision. I think it would be (and should be) illegal to say "only Black candidates can be hired via succession plan," but succession plans cleary do undermine the rule. The Rooney rule is kind of dumb anyway, but the intent behind it is not. I think the NFL needs to rethink methods for promotion of minority advancement in coaching and management.

Having said all that, in no way am I faulting the Pats for anything here - faulting the Pats for Rooney rule reasons is, in this case, absurd on its face.
Can't disagree with any of that.

Also, we have to consider the fact that succession situations are exceedingly rare. Most coaches get canned because their teams stink. Carolina wasn't succession planning for Matt Rhule. You can probably count the amount of similar situations in the last 30 years on one hand.
 

Beomoose

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If succession plans are going to become a thing
I think, on the whole, there's a small risk of this as most owners/GMs seem to favor a "clean house" solution when their team craters. The Pats-BB-Kraft-Mayo dynamic is fairly unusual, to the point there are members here wondering why an internal candidate was even an option given the team's recent stumbles. Expanding the Rule to cover Coordinators and adopting something similar for NCAAF coaches would better fulfill the intention to increase opportunities and allow coaches to be positioned to get more than an interview at the NFL HC level.
 

JimD

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I don’t think there’s low expectations at all. Kraft seemed to be very upset by missing the playoffs 3 times. Mayo isn’t going to have too long before people start calling for him to be fired if he can’t turn around things on the field.
Disagree completely. The Krafts are fully invested in Jerod Mayo's success, much more so IMO than if they picked an outsider from another organization. I think Mayo will actually get more time - as in, a potential non-playoff season - to build a sustainable winner, as long as they see the correct progress
 

DJnVa

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Well, I can see one genuine argument why allowing this type of evasion of the Rooney Rule is problematic.
It's not an evasion. It's not a loophole.

If a sign says "No Parking Monday through Friday" and you park there on Saturday you're not evading the rules. It's not a loophole. It's how the rule was written.
 

Eddie Jurak

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It's not an evasion. It's not a loophole.

If a sign says "No Parking Monday through Friday" and you park there on Saturday you're not evading the rules. It's not a loophole. It's how the rule was written.
This is semantics. I'm not trying to claim the Patriots did anything wrong here, quite the contrary.

But there is no situation or walk of like where, when rules are made, people don't look for ways to expolit them or get arousn them that weren't intended by the people who made and approved the rule.

Succession planning could, possibly, undermine the purpose of the Rooney rule, if that starts to happen the rule should be modified in some way. If free parking on Saturdays has unintended bad consequences, that rule should be changed, too.
 

DJnVa

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This is semantics. I'm not trying to claim the Patriots did anything wrong here, quite the contrary.
I didn't think you did, I just chose that time to respond, but the word "evasion" puts a darker tint on it.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The Rooney Rule is about giving minority coaches opportunities to get in front of NFL ownership, interview for a job and even if they don’t get the job they are interviewing for, potentially putting them on the map for the next job that comes open. Or at least making them a candidate. Even when ownership has already made a decision, going through the process has value (and honestly why would you make a decision before you complete the interviews? What harm is there in keeping an open mind?).

That said I get why they made exceptions for the succession planning scenario because without that exception the Pats may have lost Mayo last year. What I wonder is what would happen if the Pats changed their minds.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Rooney Rule is about giving minority coaches opportunities to get in front of NFL ownership, interview for a job and even if they don’t get the job they are interviewing for, potentially putting them on the map for the next job that comes open. Or at least making them a candidate. Even when ownership has already made a decision, going through the process has value (and honestly why would you make a decision before you complete the interviews? What harm is there in keeping an open mind?).
Brian Flores, though, in his lawsuit, claimed that he was brought in for interviews by teams that never intended to hire him. Your description of the Rooney rule (if that is really the intend) would undermine his claim. It must be at least partly about actual opportunities to be hired or Flores loses that part of his claim.
That said I get why they made exceptions for the succession planning scenario because without that exception the Pats may have lost Mayo last year. What I wonder is what would happen if the Pats changed their minds.
I would imagine that is covered in the contract. At least it could be.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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As to “why Mayo”..isn’t it pretty simple? That was the deal they made to keep him as part of the organization a year ago. To reneg on that now, especially to hire a white guy, would be a terrible look.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Brian Flores, though, in his lawsuit, claimed that he was brought in for interviews by teams that never intended to hire him. Your description of the Rooney rule (if that is really the intend) would undermine his claim. It must be at least partly about actual opportunities to be hired or Flores loses that part of his claim.
Well it’s both. Obviously it is meant to translate into more HC opportunities for minority candidates but going through the process has value even if you hire the guy you thought you were going to hire.

And no the interviews are not supposed to be sham interviews. It’s amazing how difficult it is for people to keep an open mind during a hiring process.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Brian Flores, though, in his lawsuit, claimed that he was brought in for interviews by teams that never intended to hire him. Your description of the Rooney rule (if that is really the intend) would undermine his claim. It must be at least partly about actual opportunities to be hired or Flores loses that part of his claim.
I don't think there is any way around token interviews occasionally happening once somebody has their heart set on a candidate but still has to fulfill the requirements of the rule.
 

DJnVa

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Rapoport on NFL Gameday said Josh McDaniels will be at top of list for OC should Mayo part ways with BoB.

I would like that with a young QB.
 

NomarsFool

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Any chance BOB goes to Alabama? It would seem difficult for the Krafts to be on board with firing BOB, given how much they value loyalty, and it's not exactly like they can really use the "clean house" approach with Mayo as the HC. The offense was definitely a disaster this year, but BOB certainly has lots of arguments that it wasn't all his fault.
 

jsinger121

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Any chance BOB goes to Alabama? It would seem difficult for the Krafts to be on board with firing BOB, given how much they value loyalty, and it's not exactly like they can really use the "clean house" approach with Mayo as the HC. The offense was definitely a disaster this year, but BOB certainly has lots of arguments that it wasn't all his fault.
No since he has no relationship with the new coach
 

ShaneTrot

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I am fascinated to know how Mayo will deal with the media as head coach. He is an eloquent likable guy. I wonder if he will share more info than BB. One of the issues with McDaniels, Judge, and Patricia is they tried to run their teams as if they were BB. I think to be successful you have to be yourself.
 
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I had been assuming Josh McD would follow Bill wherever he goes. I would not like it if Mayo hires Josh to run the offense. I would like to see the offense go in a new-ish, more modern direction. BOb at least has some experience running an offense tailored to a mobile QB when he was HC of the Texans.
 

Section30

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I am fascinated to know how Mayo will deal with the media as head coach. He is an eloquent likable guy. I wonder if he will share more info than BB. One of the issues with McDaniels, Judge, and Patricia is they tried to run their teams as if they were BB. I think to be successful you have to be yourself.
I hope he comes in to the first press conference and does a deadpan BB response to questions for the first 10 minutes. I hope there is a camera on the reporters faces if he does.
 

tims4wins

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Reiss made the point today that Mayo doesn't like to do media from behind the dais. We'll see if that carries over when he is HC. First chance is Wednesday.
 

Norm loves Vera

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This may soud like a fan boy wish, but if this was indeed Slater's last year, it would awesome if he found himself coaching special teams for the Patriots. Achord has inspired zero confidence to me he knows how to coach up his charges.

From what I read Mayo and Slater are cut from the same cloth and their work ethic are in alignment. Keeping Slater would also take some of the sting from losing the best Coach we ever had in Patriots Nation.
 

E5 Yaz

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This may soud like a fan boy wish, but if this was indeed Slater's last year, it would awesome if he found himself coaching special teams for the Patriots. Achord has inspired zero confidence to me he knows how to coach up his charges.

From what I read Mayo and Slater are cut from the same cloth and their work ethic are in alignment. Keeping Slater would also take some of the sting from losing the best Coach we ever had in Patriots Nation.
If Larry Izzo is indeed out in Seattle after Pete's firing, that's another name I'd like to see interviewed for the ST coach. Slater might become an org guy, given his interpersonal strengths
 

jsinger121

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This may soud like a fan boy wish, but if this was indeed Slater's last year, it would awesome if he found himself coaching special teams for the Patriots. Achord has inspired zero confidence to me he knows how to coach up his charges.

From what I read Mayo and Slater are cut from the same cloth and their work ethic are in alignment. Keeping Slater would also take some of the sting from losing the best Coach we ever had in Patriots Nation.
I’d expect both Cam Acord and Joe Judge to be fired after Wednesday when Mayo is formally introduced.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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So Mayo is, to us, a bit of an unknown quantity when it comes to head coaching. At least we know what Vrabel can do, but Mayo? Who knows. I remain optimistic, but we really have no idea. And right now there doesn't appear to be a plan to have a GM, but rather go by committee? Something like that?

So months ago I argued that the Pats should keep BB but that getting rid of him was a good move only if they had a good idea who they would put in his place. Looks like that's the case with Mayo, but Bill the GM has to be replaced as well.

Others here argued that it doesn't matter if you have any idea who the next guys will be - it's time to get rid of BB anyway, and deal with his successor(s) later.

Well, I hope that group of people is happy. Because - at least on the GM side of things - they got what they asked for.
 

jsinger121

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Slater has all the makings of taking over Andre Tippets job in the community when he retires. He currently the executive director of community affairs. That has Slater written all over it.
 

BaseballJones

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Because he doesn't want to coach, he wants to follow Belichick elsewhere, or what?
He indicated to me that he doesn’t like the hours they NFL coaches work and would rather invest that time in other endeavors. I think he likes the idea of coaching but not the reality of the schedule they keep.